Gamenight: Phillies (39-26) At Marlins (34-29)
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Tue, June 10, 2008 06:08 PM | Comments: 121
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After a day off, the Phillies will try to lengthen their lead in the National League East with the first of three games against the Marlins in Miami. It’s a crucial series for both teams — the Marlins want to remain close to the Phils in the East; the Phils would love nothing more than to have a gigantic lead in the division.
Brett Myers will try to build off his specatcular performance against the Reds last week. For those who remember, Myers took a no-hitter into the seventh inning Wednesday night before losing it, and the game. Luckily Ricky Nolasco isn’t Edinson Volquez, but Nolasco did beat the Phillies this year (6.1 IP, 2 ER).
Shortstop Hanley Ramirez has been hot for the Fish. He has 15 hits and five home runs in his last 11 games.
Phillies: Brett Myers (3-7) 5.13 ERA
Marlins: Ricky Nolasco (5-4) 5.05 ERA
Gametime: 7:10 p.m. EST
Weather: 79, scattered storms
Lineup: Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Burrell, Jenkins, Dobbs, Coste, Myers
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Your gamenight beer: So today Snoop Dogg tells Jay-Z and Beyonce to make babies. Thanks, Snoop. In your honor, I recommend Doggie Style Classic Pale Ale by Flying Dog. It’s a simple American Pale Ale, robust and clean. Everybody sing it with me: “One, two, three and to the four, Snoop Doggy Dogg and Doctor Dre is at ya door.”
Go Phillies!
Posts: 0 Geoff
Whats starting to get old is having to point out that they need another very good starting pitcher.
Posted: 10:13 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I dont like giving away young pitching though, which is why i would keep kendrick. he can improve over this career. adam eaton is 30. besides, the salary cap driven owners will unload eaton because of his contract.
Posted: 10:14 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
my point for 2 months now… Who is out there that they can get.. that you would actually want… who wouldn’t cost you everything in the world…
Posted: 10:19 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/06/the-starting-pi.html
tell me who from this list is worthy of getting, and who we cant get without giving up too much
Posted: 10:33 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Out of that list I’d take Greinke, Sheets, Sabathia, Mad Dog(because of his experience and big game pitching, it would be good for the post season), Burnett(maybe), and Brad Penny who always has a better 2nd half of the year. Oh, I’d take Wolf back. I think he found his stuff this year. As far as Eaton goes, I think Eaton also found his stuff and will continue at this pace the rest of the year. He’ll have his bad outting here and there, but everyone does. Also, you’re welcome for explaining what ERA means. Anything under a 5.00 ERA for a #4 and #5 starter is really really good. I’d put it like this an ace should have just about a 3.0 or under and be able to go 8 innings. #2 should have a 3.5 and go about 7 innings #3 should have just around a 4.0 and go 6-7 innings #4 should be around 4.5and go 6 innings a #5 should be in the low 5s and be able to go 5-6 innings. Hamels is still a #1 he just had 2 bad outings. We have no #2 or #3 unless Myers can truly come around. Moyer, Eaton, and Kendrick all make great #4 and #5 guys. That’s just my opinion.
Posted: 10:48 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Here what i think it should be:
1 – 3.0 and under able to go the distance when he is on fire
2 – 3.5 and under able to go 7-8 and a few times will go the distance when he has career nights
3 – 4.0 and under able to go 7 regularly
4 & 5 – under 5 able to go 6 regularly
5 innings from a starter is pretty weak. you will kill your bullpen that way, and thats what happened last year.
Posted: 10:55 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Yeah, that’s a good representation and you got my point across better.
1- Hamels
2- Myers if he pitched like he did the rest of his career.
3- Kendrick if he pitched like last year
4- Eaton
5- Moyer
Honestly though Myers is the weakest link.
Posted: 11:04 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Like Phil.. i’d take those guys too… the problem comes with what you have to give up to rent a pitcher for 1/2 a season.. Its looking like decision time is not too far away for the Phillies.
What to do with Burrell next year.. Golson could be trade bait if they want to keep Burrell around for another 2+ years.
Victorino is probably the best all-around OF on the team, and I WOULD NOT trade him for an AJ Burnett, Joe Blanton, etc..
Myers vs. Lidge… its looking more and more like Lidge is going to be their guy and should be in the plans for next year.. Myers DOES NOT WANT TO START.. and if they can trade him off as a Closer to someone, they could probably get a starter and a prospect in return (Ben Sheets for Myers… Brewcrew needs a closer bad… ) we’d need a signing window to make that trade though since Sheets is a free agent soon
A guy like Maddux of Lowe would be great in this ballpark since they are groundball guys..
Posted: 11:06 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Oh yeah, and good job PG not grabbing Loshe. There’s our #3.
Posted: 11:06 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
another from mlb trade rumors :
*********
Rosenthal says the Phillies “lack the prospect inventory” to get an impact starting pitcher, which I don’t agree with. He says they may look for another lefty reliever or bench bat.
********
There lies the problem.. we are already so thin in the farm system..that trading a lot for another pitchers with a .500 record and a 4.00 ERA probably isn’t the smartest thing to do.. espc. with the upcoming salary demands of Hamels, Howard, Victorino, Lidge..etc
Posted: 11:12 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I agree with that rotation acutally. because stamina is important, not as much as era and stuff. glad someone agrees with that.
i like grienke but he would probably cost victorino.
i dont know what theyd ask for sheets, probably a lot.
im sure we dont have enough for sabathia without giving them someone off the mlb roster
i think we have enough to get a good starter though. arroyo can chew up some innings and ill bet the reds will be salary dumping soon. griffey, dunn, arroyo will probably all go.
robertson from the tigers is garbage.
i do look at it in terms of what can you get in terms of not having to give up carrasco, golson, marson, savery, outman. taht will be hard. but i think do able. cardenas and bastardo and some other guys are all in the mix to go stiill. those two plus another decent prospect or even two could net you a pretty good starter. a lot of scouts are high on bastardo and think hes almost ready.
im just saying its not impossible
Posted: 11:17 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
i think pitching at CBP would extend lowes career for years. hes an ideal fit for this ballpark and if they dont get him at the deadline id sign him as a free agent.
id feel better if they extended lidge very soon. id keep burrell around if its not too expensive but i wouldnt trade golson.
rosenthal is wrong like half the time. hes changed his opinion about sabathia like 30 times in the past two weeks.
hamels and lidge must be reupped pronto.
Posted: 11:20 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Victorino needs to be reupped too. Just sign the guy for 5 years 20 million or something before he gets so good that he’s worth a lot more than that. Hamels lock up for 10 years in my opinion. Make him our franchise pitcher. We haven’t had one of them since oh, I don’t know, Steve Carlton. Lidge should get a 5 year 40 million deal. The Royals are in horrible shape, they might take anyone for Greinke probably.
Posted: 11:29 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 scot
I think this idea of having your top three starters with an ERA under 4 is a pipe dream. This is 2008, not the mid 80′s. We have 30 teams in baseball, more than half (including us!) with bandbox ballparks. Thirty teams, at least 5 starters a team, at least 150 starting pitchers, and only 46 right now have ERA’s under 4. That’s barely 1.5 a team, and we have people here demanding that the top 3 starters in this rotation have ERA at 4 or under. We aren’t gonna get two morte starters with an ERA under four by giving up TJ Bohn or Chris Snelling. We’d need to part with serious talent, and possibly some everyday talent.
Like everyone else here, I want a championship team. But can we at least make efforts to think within the realistic boundries of MLB in 2008?
Posted: 11:31 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
ok, the third guy can get away with 4-4.5
but the top two guys HAVE to be under 4. tahts realistic if you want to win a championship. seriously.
Posted: 11:36 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 scot
Am I wrong in thinking last year that Beckett had an ERA over 4? That the only consistent starter on the Red Sox who had an ERA under 4 was Dice-K, who really wasn’t considered there 1 or 2 most the season?
Posted: 11:50 AM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
josh beckett:
2007 regular season : 20-7 3.27 ERA 194 K 40 BB
2007 postseason: 4-0 1.29 ERA 35 K 2 BB
Posted: 12:00 PM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Brett Myers
I heard that Josh Beckett hangs around in the showers for a real long time after the games. That makes me wonder.
Posted: 01:26 PM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Bruce
No one here I believe has mention another point about the factors in making the playoffs and the world series.
Since the wild card system was approved in 1993, wild card teams are 14-10 in the division series, 8-6 in the league championship series, and 4-4 in the world series. As a matter of fact, we had a wild card team in the world series for the last SIX years with THREE winning the championship.
My point is it takes a little luck with circumstances and more to do with momentum than having the best record and pitchers with wonderful ERAs to survive the five game series in the opening round of the playoffs (see 2007 Colorado Rockies).
One could say that winning the world series has more to do about getting hot in October than being the best team from April through September.
Case in point; The 1997 wild-card Florida Marlins went 12-15 in September and won the World Series. The 2000 Mets (15-14) and 2006 Detroit Tigers (12-16) were also underwhelming in the final month.
I remember one wild card team in 2006 that finished the regular season with a record of 83-78 and rode on their momentum all the way to the world series and WON the championship. That team is the St. Louis Cards.
The starting rotation for that team in 2006?
Jason Marquis WL: 14-16 ERA: 6.02
Chris Carpenter 15-8 3.09
Jeff Suppan 12-7 4.12
Mark Mulder 6-7 7.14
Anthony Reyes 5-8 5.06
Jeff Weaver 5-4 5.18
Sidney Ponson 4-4 5.24
Team Pitching ERA: 4.54
Not exactly overwhelming. Right Geoff? (chuckle)
Posted: 01:30 PM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
yeah but why do you want to be that team? they limped into the playoffs and got a lucky run, so what? they were bad the next year werent they? you wan to be the champions that have longevity.
you really wanna rock out old baseball stats then lets go:
1997 marlins rotation stats?
kevin brown 16-8 2.96 ERA 205k 66bb
alex fernandez 17-12 3.59 ERA 163k 69bb
al lieter 11-9 4.34 ERA 132k 91bb
tony saunders 4-6 4.61 ERA 102k 51bb
pat rapp 4-6 4.47 ERA 62k 51bb
livan hernandez 9-3 3.18 ERA 72k 38bb
thats a pretty good rotation.
number one and two starters ERA under 3.6, now of course era isnt everything. they really need that other outstanding frontline starter. brett myers is an inadequate number two right now. that marlins number two guy? 17-12 3.59 era, etc.
Posted: 01:48 PM on June 11, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I could care less about longevity if it meant winning a World Series this year… getting lucky or not…
Good point Bruce… in 2003 the Marlins weren’t much better than the Phillies until the end of the year, they knocked us off… its all about having people do THEIR job.. you dont need an All-Star at every position (Yankees)…
Posted: 02:53 PM on June 11, 2008