Quantcast


Should Myers Start Again?

Posted by Tim Malcolm, Sat, June 28, 2008 11:17 AM | Comments: 26
Posts

After last night’s fiasco, the Phillies have seemingly hit a crossroads with Brett Myers. Charlie Manuel had a few choice things to say about his opening day starter:

“Can I say his job is secure? I don’t know what to say, if you want to know the truth. We’d have to find somebody to do his job first, I guess.”

Options:

  • James Happ (3-5, 3.86 ERA, 81 K in AAA)
  • Carlos Carrasco (4-4, 3.91 ERA, 72 K in AA)
  • Kris Benson (scheduled to start Sunday in AAA)
  • Chad Durbin (2-1, 1.47 ERA)
  • Ryan Madson (1-0, 2.90 ERA)

Of the five I’d go with Happ. He starts today for Lehigh Valley and could slide in Thursday, when Myers is set to go again. He deserves a shot.

Charlie …

“We’re trying to get him right. Myers’ best year is 14-9 as a starter. You stop and think about it, that’s not lighting it up. I mean, look, that’s not what you call a huge season. He’s had some bumps. He’s had moments on the mound where he’s had some struggles.”

Ouch.

“Our expectation of Myers was always an 18-, 20-game winner. I said before the season started that in order for us to win, we needed 16 to 20 wins out of [Cole Hamels and Myers]. That’s kind of how we always evaluated him. His talent has always been there. Right now, things aren’t going too well for him. He’s having trouble.”

Read: Mental problems. And control issues, but they stem to his mental problems. Myers seems to be freaked by a potential home run (see Ian Kinsler, first inning) that he’s not trying to even come close. When there’s a headcase, there’s a change of scenery necessary.

Bring up Happ; Manuel knows something must be done, and he’s right.

Avatar of Tim Malcolm

About Tim Malcolm

Tim Malcolm has written 1947 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Greg V.

    I vote Durbin but an issue I read about in the DN today that is very correct is that he can’t just go in there and pitch 7 innings. He’d have to start out with a pitch count (Manuel said 50). Then where do you go? Do you throw Myers back in after those 50 pitches? Not exactly the best idea.

    So maybe Happ is the best option. He’s obviously holding his own in Lehigh Valley and deserves a shot.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    new trendy stat: hits/innings pitched

    used with w-l, era, and k-bb. it provides a certain element of the picture. basically, is the pitcher coasting through innings or is the pitcher giving hitters opportunities and wasting pitches on facing too many hitters?

    you obviously want to have more innings pitched than hits allowed. it shows that more often than not, your pitcher is able to cruise through most of the innings they pitch.

    Cole Hamels: 113 IP/87H
    Brett Myers: 101.2 IP/115H
    Jamie Moyer: 94.2 IP/104H
    Adam Eaton: 92.2/102
    Kyle Kendrick: 86.1/97

    James Happ: 94 IP/86H
    Kris Benson: hasnt thrown enough to make this a meaningful stat
    Carlos Carrasco: 97 IP/98H (mustve had a few bad outings) he really shouldnt still be in double a though. he should either be in the major leagues or in lehigh valley.

    Basically, everyone except for cole struggles through innings more often than not.

    obviously it doesnt reveal the runs given up so its not a complete picture stat. its one i like to look at sometimes though just to see if the pitcher has stretches where they can dominate and cruise though innings. just something to throw out there for discussion.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    That would be a good call. Right now Benson could be the saviour incarnate if he can make it through those rehab starts in LV with his arm still on, Happ could give a couple of servicable starts and anything more presents a better situation than we’re in right now. It’s too early to go shopping for an impact starter and it could be too big a risk bring up Carrasco this early or remove Durbin from the role he’s thrived.

    Myers needs some DL then rehab starts or Condrey goes down and we have Brett let it hang out in middle relief which could address a secondary need. The problem Brett’s posing is a feeling that our next major move is to grossly over-pay for a frontline starter than the Arroyo/Washburn type guy who’d fit awefully well behind an effective Myers.

     
  • Posts: 0 PhillyFriar

    Agree with your analysis, Tim. Myers needs a DL vacation and Happ is more than ready to step in. Brett can make a couple of “rehab” starts and try to sort himself out where it doesn’t hurt the big league club.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    Geoff has missed an important. Walks are like singles. Would like to see his stat of IP versus Hits and Walks.

    Anyone who has seen Myers knows this:
    1. He has lost a lot of speed on his fast ball and it is straight as an arrow.
    2. His curve ball is not as tight as it was. It is a looping curve and not a sharp drop.

    Not sure whether he is having arm issues, but his stuff is not 50% of what it was. The Phillies cannot afford to spend more time on this. If the Tigers can demote Willis, the Phillies can do it to Myers.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    yeah walks are key too. thats why i said the key stats are:

    w-l era k bb h/ip

    that will tell you almost all you need to know. except number of pitches per outing or number of innings per outing but thats similar to H/IP

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    sure theyd fit in well behind myers. blanton would fit in well as a 3 if myers was right and what he should be. arroyo and washburn are pretty much garbage though i think. arroyo was iffy before but he had that 10 run one inning performance that showed hes worth signing as a free agent to compete for your fifth starter spot next year.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    asa free agent for like no money

     
  • Posts: 0 T Mac

    They need to place Myers on the 15 day DL, and let him clear his head for a few days and then do a “rehab” for a week in the minors where he gets used to being a short reliever again. Then bring him up after the all-star break and slowly work him in until he can take over as a set-up guy for Gordon.

    To replace Myers for the 15 days, bring up Happ to pitch in Myers place in the rotation.

    Once Myers comes off DL, he takes Condrey’s place.

     
  • Posts: 0 Keith

    Carrasco is not ready for the majors just gave up 7 hits, 7er, 3BBs in 3 IP

     
  • Posts: 0 Rob Cowie

    Myers can not start for this team again. The love affair with myers and hoping he’d eventually emerge from something other than a 13-win pitcher is now over.

    He is marginal at best. A middle roatation pitcher whom we shouldn’t expect anything from at this point. If he wins good for him, if he loses, it’s just another Myers start.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I think last night was the last straw. hes done. theyll move him to the pen or put him on the DL until they can put him in a trade package for a stud number two pitcher who is under team control beyond this year

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    What would you propose as an “injury” for Myers to go on the DL? ;-)

    BTW, Geoff…. don’t you look at the WHIP statistic for pitchers? I have posted this often on another site as part of friendly discussions with other posters.

    In case you’re asking…. WHIP = walks & hits in inning pitched.

     
  • Posts: 0 Rick

    dead arm period???? Or better yet, they could do what Dusty Baker did with Griffey Jr so he would hit 500 in Cinci (IMO). General Soreness we salute you!

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    i know what whip is and yeah i do look at whip. i like some things broken up. you can look at it as one stat or broken up. thats the beauty of statistics as a field.

    its not that i dont like whip or ops, but sometimes combo stats, while telling and effective, get too carried away.

    the myers injury? being weak in the dome.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Geoff~ fair point about certain statistics not giving a complete picture.
    Whether you’re looking at WHIP or H/IP, it is based on an “average”. The determined average can be misleading because a starter can have a terrible inning allowing several hits and runs and then recovered and be dominant for the rest of the game.

    I’ll give you Myers for an example as we know about his first inning troubles.
    In his last win which he went 8 innings against Florida (12-3); In the 1st inning, he allowed 3 hits, 2 walks for 3 runs. In the next 7 innings he allowed just 3 hits, zero walks, 11 K’s and ZERO runs. Unfortunately, that’s an exception rather then the rule for Myers. We know he’s been terrible.

    If you use a season’s worth of WHIP and other statistics, it does give you a general picture of how effective the pitcher has been. Personally, the ERA is the most telling stat when I looked at a pitcher’s record.

     
  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    Tonight the Phils face another X in Padilla. This is excrutiating!

    Does anyone remember when Myers threw a fastball that topped 94 mph? It used to happen, frequently at that. Brett does not need a rest, he needs a move.

    More revealing, how about these stats over the past 9 games and then some;

    Jimmy Rollins
    8 games; 33 ab; 1 run; 4 hits; 0 hr; 2 rbi for a .121 avg.
    Howard;
    9 games; 36 ab; 0 runs; 5 hits; 0 hr; 3 rbi; .139 avg.
    And becoming one of my all time favorites to watch, Carlos “no hit” Ruiz (he earned the name since “No Hit” Nunez was sent packing). Carlos, other than his one 4 hit game vs. the Cardinal (did the Phils score 20?) – this is for the entire month of June now – 36 ab; 7 runs; 4 hits; 1 hr and 3 rbi for a stellar .111 average.

    Wow.. last year Pat hit .129 for the month of June and the Phils were not in first place.

    Good bye June, good riddance! 11 wins and 13 losses so far.

     
  • Posts: 0 Keith

    I just saw that Myers is supposed to make 12 mil next year. who would actually take him at that price

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    if he isnt producing that way the phillies wont want him around

     
  • Posts: 0 Mark

    I gotta say it — Myers MUST GO!! His is no longer rotation-worthy and I don’t know where else to put him — the bullpen has looked real good so far, other than “flashed-out” Tom Gordon. Durbin needs to stay put in his bullpen position where he’s been real successful. I don’t wanna seem him in the rotation. I don’t see Happ starting. Benson’s not ready yet. I like jumping Carlos Carrasco right into the Majors.

     
  • Posts: 0 Keith

    Mark: did you not just see what happened to Carrasco last night at AA, 3IP 7ER, 7H, 3BB, 0K plus his ERA is now over 4, I am not saying he isnt going to be a good pitcher but I just dont see him being ready. Happ is unfortunatley our best option unless Benson would be ready which he probably is not.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    GUYS! BENSON IS NOT OUR SAVIOUR! he can be a decent long man 5th starter at best this year. hes another guy thats always injured.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    well, all im saying with that is you cant rely on someone thats still injured. if he comes up and helps, then its a bonus. but you cant assume that he will.

     
  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    People, please do NOT count on Chris Benson… the one thing that Benson has done since joining the majors is get injured and collect….

    Nough said.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    The only way to get rid of Myers… or the only way he can help your team, is the same solution: make him a reliever again.

    He has said repeatedly that he wants to be a closer.. put him back there in the setup role, since Gordon sucks anyway. Then when the trade deadline comes around. Tell teams that you aren’t sure if you want to keep Myers as your closer for next year, or if you want to trade him… then trade him for whatever you can get… sunflower seeds, pine tar, ice packs.. anything…

     
  • Posts: 0 dan

    I agree with Don. Do you think putting him on the DL would decrease his trade value at all?

     
 
Leave a Comment

>> Create a new Phillies Nation account.
>> Already registered with Phillies Nation? Log in here.
>> Comment without logging in:






Please ensure your comments comply with our Comment Policy.