Hamels, Phils Suffer Tough Loss
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Mon, July 21, 2008 10:02 AM | Comments: 92
Posts
This one was a big loss.
The Phillies held a 2-1 lead into the eighth inning, but Cole Hamels let up a solo home run. Innings later, the Phils finally lost to the Marlins, 3-2. They lost the series, are now tied for first place yet again and could be sitting in third place very soon.
Ryan Howard got the good guys out to a good start with an RBI single and RBI double, but that’s all they’d get. The black hole seemed expansive — Geoff Jenkins went 0-for-3 and made bad key outs; Pedro Feliz went 0-for-5; Carlos Ruiz went 1-for-4. Later potential clutch moments in the game led to nothing. They didn’t do enough.
Then there’s Hamels, who — yes, he deserves better run support — gave up another two solo homers in this one. Is it wrong to bash Hamels for giving up two runs? I don’t know. But I do know an ace needs to buckle down and prevent the opposition from scoring anything.
That said, Hamels was very good. He went eight and only gave up four hits. He struck out seven.
Once the bullpen reached Clay Condrey, the Marlins took advantage, loading the bases off him and scoring on a Jorge Cantu (who else?) single in the 12th.
But really, this one is on the offense and its inability to score a few runs for their ace.
“Our situational hitting is absolutely terrible. Off the chart, really. The guys might be trying too hard, and it seems like when you remind them to make sure you get [the runner] over, all of a sudden, they don’t do it.”
That’s Charlie Manuel, finally saying out loud they can’t hit in situations. Something we’ve known for a long time. A game like this makes you seething mad, but it also makes you see the team for what it really is — a paper contender.
Associated Press photo

















Posts: 0 Tom
MAKE THE TRADE FOR HOLLIDAY RIGHT NOW…
OUR PITCHING IS FINE ITS OUR OFFENSE WHO CAN’T HIT…ADDING A .340 hitter IN THE LINEUP CHANGES EVERYTHINGGGGGG
Posted: 10:04 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Cole Hamels has been a home run machine this year. Five homeruns given up in his last 3 starts and six multi-HR games this year. Most of the time they tend to be solo shots but I thought I’d point that out.
Posted: 10:08 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
But that isn’t to blame Cole at all for these loses he’s taken this year. He has taken a loss or ND in four 1-run games. I would love to see Holliday in this lineup more than anything but I find it very radical of fans on this site to call for a trade every time we take a loss and completely switch their view when we win. Let’s be honest, the Holliday and Fuentes deal is entirely too rich for our tastes but if we somehow only get Holliday for lesser than Marson, CC, Vic, and someone else, I would seriously consider. I know that our bullpen has been shaky the last couple times out but their very capable of doing their job, just use the right guys.
Posted: 10:13 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike T.
No pitching available = must get Holliday.
Posted: 10:14 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Eric
I really didn’t think the Holliday/Fuentes trade was for real…and now I hope it is. Lots of people have been saying the Phils should either go ‘all in’ this season and go for the World Series, or stick with what they have and hope to contend for the next few years with the nucleus as it stands now. The Rockies deal would be a signal in the win now attitude, obviously, but they could keep Holliday past this season if they wanted to. The Morning Report in the Inquirer had a pretty interesting scenario. Either way, having a .340 hitter in your lineup would definitely perk up that situational hitting, yeah?!
Posted: 10:22 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
I dont think we need another pitcher, but we do need a bat. Holliday may not be the best option for us out there either, we need someone who can slap singles for a cheaper price. Randy Winn, Ryan Freel, Willy Taveras even. I’ve been saying this the day I started on this site. Again, it would be nice to get a Matt Holliday but he is too expensive as of right now and we can get someone of a lesser price that can help us win.
Posted: 10:22 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Todd
starting to realize that they really miss aaron rowand… last year, in all of those MOB situations after howard would strike out… he seemed to always get the big hit. Now we just have jenkins, feliz and ruiz doing exactly the opposite.
Posted: 10:26 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
I don’t think we have a chance in the world to get Holliday? Who are we going to give up??
Posted: 10:31 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 MIKE FLO
let me get this straight you have howard, utley, rollins …2 straight mvps with a third one possibly on the way….and burrell having an all star season…and your all crying to get holliday? and willing to give up your best prospects for him? dont you philly fans ever want to win anythinggg? its sooo clear that your starting pitching is crap…. and last week you were all on here saying how bad you needed pitching…. nowww your pitching is fine this week and you need hitting? GET A CLUE.
Posted: 10:32 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
We shouldn’t have traded for Blanton and should have made a blockbuster trade to the Pirates for Nady, Marte, and Grabow. That would have solved all 3 of our issues in one.
Posted: 10:32 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Rivlez, aren’t you a Mets fan?
Posted: 10:36 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Tom
I am not screaming after a loss…im saying that this has been going on for a month now and something needs to get this team goin and nothing would help that but putting a great hitter in the lineup like holliday…instantly make us WS contender…
Posted: 10:39 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Tom
I don’t want to give up marson though…throw golsen in that trade and not give up marson because that would be tragic to have to go through a another season with ruiz hitting .190
Posted: 10:41 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 MIKE FLO
No…it would not instantly make you a world series contender…. great pitching beats great hitting….ask the yankees. Phils rotation is not good enough to go up against the Cubs or Brewers rotation, with their big 1/2 combos
Posted: 10:41 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Throw Donald in the trade instead of Golson or Marson. Our OF is thin. We need Golson.
Posted: 10:41 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Mike Flo, our pitching isn’t losing us games, our offense is. Good pitching, good defense, and situational hitting wins you championships. We don’t have situational hitting. Our pitching is adequate enough if we can situationally hit.
Posted: 10:42 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 dan
Is Marson Major League ready next season?
Posted: 10:45 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Gavin
I would make the trade if they let me include Golson or Werth in place of Victorino, and any other prospect instead of Marson.
Golson/Carrasco/Happ/Harmen
Posted: 10:46 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Tom
marson will be up next year and golsen strikes out to much to play for this team exspecially since we strike out already to much….
idc who we put in the deal but im totally fine with them giving up vic CC donald and some1 else
Posted: 10:46 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I think its insane to question Cole Hamels as an ACE.. you honestly can’t ask anything more from him. He should be able to give up 3, 4, 5 runs and still get Wins with what this offense is supposed to do.
They lost 5 of the last 10 games he started.. in those loses he gave up 2, 2, 3, 2, and 7 ER… so that should be 4 wins.. or 9 wins out of the last 10 games he started.
Anyone watch SPORTS-FINAL last night? Jayson Stark was on and said that the Phillies inquired about Holliday-Fuentes, but that there was no match and it wasn’t going to happen.
Phil, I think we need to have Blanton pitch a few times before we say we shouldn’t have traded for him… they needed a guy that can go 7 innings on a regular basis in their starting rotation.. he does that, and makes the team better.. He’s not CC Sabathia, but it was definitely a good move to get him!
Posted: 10:47 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 MIKE FLO
your pitching isnt losing you games this week…. but i bet you it will lose you a few this week. And then everyone here will be saying how bad the pitching is again.
Posted: 10:47 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Tom
victorino is annoying to watch he pops up 60 70 percent of the time
Posted: 10:47 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Gavin
I think those are all fair considerations. To ask for every good prospect we have and our starting CF and leadoff guy is unacceptable.
At least they’re talking. There is a chance.
I still think we could use Randy Winn as much if not more than Holliday. For a much lower price. Holliday doesnt situational hit. He mashes just like Utley, Burrell, and RH. His average is a product of playing in a huge park.
Posted: 10:49 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Gavin
I meany #2 hitter (Victorino) not leadoff.
Posted: 10:50 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Marson is probably going to be the opening day starting catcher next year. Depending on what they do with Burrelll, they may or may not need Golson in the organization.
They DO NOT want to trade Carrasco, since they project him as a middle-of-the-rotation pitcher, with a chance to be a #2 at some point in his career.
Harman isn’t doing much.. Happ is probably available for trade, but If they are thinking of trading Myers in the offseason.. you need to keep Happ.
Giving you a rotation next year of Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Kendrick, Happ… or If Carrasco is ready to come up, he gets plugged in and I would imagine Happ is the odd man out..
Posted: 10:52 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
TJ yes sir you are correct, but not a dickheaded one
Posted: 10:53 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Gavin
Carrasco wont debut until 2010 according to Gillick and Amaro. He has a Gavin Floyd brain and arm, they are afraid to rush him.
Posted: 10:56 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 dan
Rivlez- if you’re a Mets fan, don’t refer to the Phillies and yourself together as “we”. Call them the Phillies, because you’re a Mets fan and we (myself, other Phillies fans, and the Phillies themselves) don’t want you or any other Mets fans associating yourself with the Phillies in that manner. Especially on this site.
Posted: 10:59 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Mike Flo, you don’t watch the Phillies, you don’t know what we see. Our problems were Eaton and Myers. We lost games cause of them. Let’s see if Myers can come back and pitch well, let’s see how Blanton does. Kendrick usually gives us 5 strong outings in a row and then implodes in the 6th, rinse repeat. I’m okay with that. Moyer has been ridiculous this year. Hamels is Hamels. The rotation is not our problem, it’s the ability to situationally hit. I’m calling for Winn, Holliday, Nady, or Giles right now. Like they better be starting for us this week against the Mets.
Posted: 11:04 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Phil, we have the same stand, although I believe If we lose 2/3 to the mets then I see the Phils going after a bat, if we win the series, I think we stay put and try to contend with the current team.
Posted: 11:08 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Yeah, well they shouldn’t take the risk to lose the series because then we’re not in 1st place. This line up is pathetic right now.
Posted: 11:09 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
dan – i didn’t know you owned the team. go screw yourself. I didn’t say anything bad. I don’t hate the Phillies. I really don’t hate any team because I just really love baseball. It’s like I’ve said all along the Phillies are a few players away from easily being the best team in NL East. Nady is not really proven. I wouldn’t take him even though he’s doing really good this year. Holliday is the ultimate choice. Going to be an interesting series this week.
Posted: 11:11 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
The Rockies only have a 4 man rotation right now. They’re in a lot of trouble, they might pull a trigger wanting Happ or Myers so they have another starter right now.
Posted: 11:11 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Rivlez we’re a few moves away from being the best team in the NL.
Posted: 11:12 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 bubba
There’s no way in hell the Phillies can get Holliday, let alone Holliday and Fuentes without giving up EVERYONE and the Phillies won’t do that.
Posted: 11:12 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
Anyway what ever happened with Liriano?
Posted: 11:12 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 bubba
Phil, why would the last place Rockies trade for Happ and/or take on Myers’ contract?
Posted: 11:14 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Yeah that offense is so fraudulent. I dont need to see moyer next season tohugh, if we can get through this season without him collapsing then ill be happy and wont need to see him anymore as a pitcher.
i think they really do need a bat like holliday now. because they dont have another dominant pitcher. they just have innings eating guys, which is ok for slots 3-5 in the rotation but not in slot 2. maybe blanton will dominate the weak nl, who knows.
where are you going to get guys that hit safely now? all these guys are laying eggs out there at the plate. its time for a big lineup shakeup. i dont need to see shane victorino out there anymore for our team. thats a start. im done talking about carlos ruiz and their need for an everyday catcher. that spot has given them no production offensively for like 6 weeks. terrible. both of them.
they better have done something by the time i get back to philly to conclude my vacation this afternoon.
Posted: 11:15 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 dan
All I’m saying is I’m a Phillies fan and I don’t go on Mets sites and pretend like I like the Mets and talk like I’m part of the team or something. If you like the Mets, don’t pretend that you don’t. Just cause someone called you on it doesn’t mean you have to pull some bullshit insults out of your ass like “go screw yourself.”
The Holliday trade would be so clutch if we could pull it off. We have to go al out for it. Tim, think you could scratch up a few article quotes and make it a post for us?
Posted: 11:17 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
Holliday would be huge! Otherwise Nady wouldn’t be bad either hitting in CBBP. I’m not quite sure how they would pull off a Holliday trade but Nady is definitely a possibly.
Posted: 11:21 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
And Dan I don’t pretend I like the Phillies. I never said I hated them. Like I said i’m a huge baseball fan and have interest in nearly all teams (except Braves). Can I please be a Phillies fan?
Posted: 11:23 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
You can be a Phillies fan if the Mets give us David Wright. You are 1 of 2 Mets fans I like on this site.
Posted: 11:25 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
Haha Phil. I would do that only if we can get Howard, Utley and Hamels. Deal? That would fill our needs. I don’t go bashing the Phillies just because they are the Phillies and it’s supposedly in my blood. Last year the Mets did terrible at the end of the year and Phillies took advantage of it and put them out of their misery. Let me ask you this, I don’t mind the Yankees, why would I hate the Phillies?
Posted: 11:33 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
hahaha true. You can’t have Howard, Utley, and Hamels for Wright. You can have Feliz for Wright though. I’ll openly admit it, and I know I’m opening myself up to a bashing from the rest of the site, but David Wright is one of my favorite players in the game, as long as he isn’t opening his mouth. He sounds like such a dirty Brooklyn hipster when he talks.
Posted: 11:38 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Rivlez
I really like Wright a lot but I like Reyes more. Wright sometimes is just not clutch sometimes and does things that drive me crazy like wiffing with the bases loaded. Then he does this thing at 3rd where he like pumps the balls before he throws and I’ve seen him make an error like 4-5 times when doing this. Other than that he is great. Since you admitted that, I’ll easily admit that Utley is one of my favorite players and IMO the best 2nd basemen in baseball.
Posted: 11:51 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
MATT HOLLIDAY will not be a member of the Philadelphia Phillies…
I heard the Pirates were asking for a ton for Nady too
He’s a career .280 hitter with not a lot of power, and a shitty OBP% at .335%…. how does he help this team at all??
Posted: 11:54 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Utley is the best 2nd baseman in baseball. That’s a no brainer. Wright isn’t the best 3B, but that’s only because of A-Rod.
Posted: 11:55 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Nady is having a career year, let him come have his career year in Philadelphia. We don’t need a power bat per say. We need a guy that get on base and hit in the clutch. We need an actual 3 hole hitter, Utley is a 2 hole hitter this year. He isn’t clutch enough this year to be a 3 hole hitter.
Posted: 11:56 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I like David Wright and I HATE Jose Reyes…… Reyes is easily one of the most overrated players in all of baseball.
Wright is a complete player, maybe not the greatest 3rd basemen ever, but his fielding percentage was pretty good last year.. Not good enough to earn the Gold Glove he won last year (over our own Pedro Feliz, Chipper Jones, and Aramis Ramirez) … but Wright is solid and doesn’t talk too much smack.
Posted: 11:58 AM on July 21, 2008
Posts: 0 metsR#1
Reyes is overrated? Do you know he is the first player IN HISTORY to have 20 doubles, 10 triples, 10 homers, and 30 SB by the allstar break? All this while hitting .300 and being on pace for 200+ hits and 140+ runs scored. Get a clue you Phillie reject.
Posted: 12:05 PM on July 21, 2008