Phillies Nation

The Phillies obviously have some serious problems, and surprisingly it’s with the offense. Here’s a fun fact: Our beloved Phillies are 13-1 against the Braves and Rockies, but 35-40 against everyone else. I’m worried.

I’m starting to get extremely worried about this offense. Twenty runs a game against Houston means jack shit because Houston isn’t a contender.

We certainly need a front-line starter, but I’m beginning to think that such an acquisition will ultimately be futile. The problem is the offense. Even if we get Bedard, so what? In the first round, against Milwaukee, we’ll toss out Hamels and Bedard. Both will go seven innings and give up one or two runs.

But we’ll face Sheets and CC, and we’ll be shut out. And frankly, at this point, it ain’t even the elite pitchers I’m worried about. Anyone who knows how to pitch — i.e. anyone who has a sense of how to set up a hitter with fastballs for the out pitch, any pitcher who knows how to throw a situational breaking ball — can EASILY beat the Phillies.

It’s painfully obvious that Rowand was a huge loss. It’s not just his BA, either. He’s a smart player (can hit a fly ball with a guy on third, can move runners over, can refrain from popping up to the catcher when the runner on first is going to steal).

Way too many of the offensive players on this team take the Brett Myers mental approach: “As a closer, I don’t have to study hitters; I just go out there and throw.” Rollins, K-How, GIDP, Feliz and Junkins don’t have any concept of situational hitting or situational baseball. They just cruise out there and hack away at anything that looks like a meatball to them, and ANY pitcher with an ounce of brains can outsmart them.

Am I way off base here?

Does Charlie see this? Milt?

I wouldn’t put K-How on the list of people who don’t situationally hit. I’ve been shocked about how many RBI’s he’s been having with singles the he tries to drive up the middle to beat the shift. He does that even though he’s a power hitter and can hit home runs. He just wants to make sure the run scores sometimes. I would, however, put Utley on that list. He always k’s when there’s a man on 3rd with less than 2 outs.

Geoff,

Didn’t you see enough to come to those conclusions 2-3 weeks ago… and then after the swept the Braves, you changed your mind… but now that they lost 2 of 3 to the Muts, you came to the conclusion again… but if they win their next game, they’ll be World Series bound again???

Why is it always so extreme with you?

They are a better than average team, in a weak National League… there current team is good enough to win the NL East… if they add a pitcher or two at the deadline.. they could make it to the World Series. Nothing they can add right now will guarantee anything, but if they get that far, you just take your chances

excuse my spelling error, we are even with the METS. Bad typing on my part.

No I saw enough. I just didnt want to break it out beacuse it seemed obvious but I cant take it anymore, I had to say it.

Oh I stopped thinking theyre a world series team after they failed in interleague play. That became obvious. What I did say is that there is no excuse for failing to get that far. Nothing less than that will be tolerated.

Theyre a decent team in a weak division and a weak NL, thats right. They need more than they cant get at the deadline so after the deadline you just have to kind of hope they can put it all together. I mean, they dont have the annumition to get all 3 components. Youre talking about hitters like Nady, Bay being out there, and we already know the pitchers out there. Those guys wont be cheap.

I just don’t understand how a team with 4 super stars and a bunch of other star players can’t get things done?

Phil, I’d agree. It wasn’t always this way, but since the start of June, Utley has somehow been a poor/dumb hitter as well. And I’m on the fence (as usual) with K-How. He consistently LOOKS awful. But he consistently gets guys home with singles and doubles.

The loss of Aaron Rowand dropped the hitters’ I.Q. by like 20 collective points.

The Cubs won’t even make the playoffs. The Brewers will win that division. The Cards, Mets, or Marlins will take the WC. The Phillies are a better team than last year simply because the bullpen and slightly improved rotation. If Myers could actually pitch well, we woulda been leaps and bounds better and would probably have the best record in baseball. The offense is not better than it was last year. Certain guys got figured out. Rollins went on the DL and isn’t back to form. We’re really missing Rowand. Burrell is doing a great job in Rowand’s spot though. Rowand would be a good 2 hole hitter in this line-up. Regardless, I agree with Geoff. We need another bat in this line up, but where do you put it?

1B- Ryan Howard
2B- Chase Utley
3B- Pedro Feliz
SS- Jimmy Rollins
RF- Jayson Werth should play everyday, he is the bat we need but we could use another.
CF- Shane Victorino
LF- Pat Burrell
C- Carlos Ruiz…he’s the obvious one, but who do you get for that?

They need to stop relying on the long ball.

Thats a good question Phil. A very tough one. I think what they needed was jenkins (not everyday but was considered borderline everyday) to be useful. Thats killing them now. Victorino needs to be a better and more disciplined hitter but you cant get rid of him because of his defensive and baserunning speed.

Its so frustrating The talent on offense is there but theyre all like, freakin retards.

Top to bottom the Phillies do have the potential to have one of the best offenses of all time, but they can’t situationally hit. Last year they didn’t even have the pitching they do this year. Our pitching averages 3.5 runs a game or so, our offense is averaging 5 runs a game. Take into account how many blow outs we had and our offense is averaging 4 runs a game. That’s not good enough. I’m not happy with .5 difference. Last year our pitching was averaging 4.5 runs a game and our offense was averaging 6 runs a game. We were completely able to manhandle other teams pitchers, good pitching or not. What happened to these guys? All we’re missing is Rowand.

Building on what? Guys that are getting old? We have a 3 year window including this year. If we don’t win in the 2010 season it’s over, and these guys we speak of have no trade value, Rollins, Howard, etc.

Yeah, sure. thats a valid point. But when you get a guy at the deadline KEEP HIM. thats building, sure. but wahts building when you let aaron rowand and kyle loshe get away for various reasons? now that set you back a year basically. so if you get a pitcher at the deadline, keep him around. keep burrell around. otherwise, youre always going to be struggling to rebuild everyyear while gaining no ground on the championship teams.

going for it doesnt have to mean this year alone. just have progression, the kind that you just mentioned. but then dont turn around in the offseason and let pat burrell go away without replacing him with someone just as good.
im in favor of that, but they dont do that. theyll let burrel walk and replace him with a rookie or someone not nearly as good.

they replaced rowand, who they didnt want to pay, with jenkins, who is totally worthless and is way overpaid.

now, the resigning of lidge, tahts good. that shows committment to winning. that says maybe, just maybe, they are changing their philosophy and going to try and hold the team together liek you said.

to this point they havebt done much of that but im encouraged by the lidge extension. thats certaintly what i want to see.

Geoff, they resigned Lidge to kill 2 birds with 1 stone. A. It secures Lidge’s future here, which doesn’t even compare to how important it makes the latter B. It gets it out of Myers head that he will be a closer for the Phillies some day. This will either make him get his shit together if he wants to stay a part of the organization.

rollins for burnett, haha. who does toronto think they are? i actually would trade jimmy rollins for roy halladay straight up if they had a prospect ready to come up behind him.

Don, what im basically saying is, when i say turning over every stone I mean not only this season but in the offseason. keep our best guys and if they cant then bring in someone as good or better.

if you dont hold onto the key components together, especially those pieces which they turned over every stone for at the deadline, then whats the point?

i HATE rentals. i think thats such a waste. the sabathia situation with the brewers, well ok if they want the picks then take the picks but normally you dont do that.

i shouldve qualified that aforementioned rant by saying that going all out doesnt mean getting a rental and then letting them go. thats almost counterproductive to a point. add to the talent pool. the phillies problem is a lack of organizational depth from majors to minors. the more talent you add and lock up the better.

look at the rays. theyre all of a sudden going to be good for a few years to come now because they kept gathering and building and resigning and locking up the right players.

Good, he should be Brian Michael. Is there a list of who’s in it?

actually my stance is the same. Ill come up with a new idea that either is agreed upon or validated. but the fundamental desire to see them win is my stance. either win now (now = within 3 years, which is a good approach obviously) or tear it up and build for the future. obviously, some of our prospects are and will be awesome. some will be ok, and some will not pan out. my point is theres a fine line to walk when you do “go for it”. by the time howard is up for free agency they better have won, otherwise thats kind of the end of the road there given what we know now.

if someone comes up with an idea and i say, yes thats a good idea id liek that, you classify that as a flip flop. and tahts not what it is at all. thats way off base. its just acknowledging a good idea.

you sound like someone who relies on fox news for their information, lol.

Don M, yes that’s worth 10 million. Are you serious? The guy who is going to lead the NL in RBI’s and homers every year isn’t worth $10 million? What is worth in your opinion?

I’m a CNN guy..if anything.

I don’t mean to bust your balls, but literally last week, you said something along the lines of if they didn’t win it THIS YEAR… they should blow it all up, rebuild, trade everyone, bring up young guys etc…

TODAY… I agree 100% with what you just said… they have a window where they have some guys under contract Utley, Rollins, Lidge…and some guys under their control… K-How, Hamels.. if they can’t find the right out-side help to go with what they have now.. then they’ll need to start all over.

But the Phillies making the playoffs again this year, but not winning the World Series, is still a successful year.. the more experience they gain the better because a real World Series contender is not far away in Philadelphia…maybe not this season, but sometime soon

Geoff and I both said blow this team up. I would blow this team up if they don’t make the playoffs, but they more than likely will. If they don’t then they are a fraud and should be blown up.

Im sure if they miss the playoffs, liek Phil said, I would be pissed off enough to call for something like that. lol.

Phil, Did I say he wasn’t worth that, or did I ask so other people could share their opinion?? I forget…

I think that if he sets a new major league record for strikeouts in a season, and hits closer to .200 then he does to .300 ….then maybe its worth taking a look at. Teams aren’t afraid of him anymore, because they know they can get him out without him putting the ball in play.

There was a stat the other day, that the Phillies have something like +78 more runs scored then their opponents.. the Marlins have like -20 less runs scored then their opponents.

If Howard leads the league in RBIs but can’t ever advance runners, or hit sac-flys.. he doesn’t help in the “manufacturing runs” department.. then is he still all that valuable?

Basically, I really don’t think the guy is worth a long-term deal… The prime of a guy’s career, I always thought was supposed to be 28-30… but so lets split the difference and say 28-32.

He is starting to take the ball the other way again, which make him dangerous at the plate. He has power to all-fields… but he said twice last week, that a strikeout is the same as any other type of out. When your team is struggling to score runs, and the guy you count on to drive them in has that opinion, that ain’t a good thing.

I think they should keep re-upping him through arbitration, because there is no reason to pay him $15 million per year, if you can get away with paying him $10 M. Hamels is going to get either a monster contract, or a monster arbitration figure… Victorino is going to need a raise… Werth is going to need a raise… Rollins is def under market value… Durbin and Madson are under paid..

I’m in favor of keeping Howard around for a few years, but the fact that he laughed when they offered him the same figures they gave Utley shows you that he thinks he’s better than he really is. He is terrible in the field….

They did screw him by keeping him in the minors too long.. lets see what kind of 2nd-half he has