Offense Blanked Again; Slip Continues
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Wed, July 09, 2008 08:54 AM | Comments: 74
Posts
And the groaning continues.
The Phillies offense failed to show up again, getting shut out by Joel Piniero and the Cardinals, 2-0. Piniero lasted 6.1 innings, striking out three and walking three. He wasn’t overly dominant by any stretch, but he made Phils hitters swing weakly at a lot of things. Nothing looked particularly hard-hit, unless it was coming off Pat Burrell’s bat. Burrell went 2-for-3, including a huge double in the second inning. After a Jayson Werth strike out, Pedro Feliz walked to load the bases. Next up was Carlos Ruiz. Anyone who didn’t see this game should know what happened. 6-4-3. Inning over. Threat over. Momentum murdered.
That was the big chance for the Phils to stomp Piniero and give Cole Hamels a nice lead. Instead it was the usual outcome. When outcomes become so usual that you can predict it in the beginning of an inning, it’s time for a change. Starting with “Chooch” wouldn’t be a bad idea.
Hamels pitched well aside from two mistakes that were drilled into the seats. Professional power hitters Ryan Ludwick and Rick Ankiel did the deeds. But Hamels struck out eight while walking zippo — he should’ve been granted a win, but this offense plain stinks right now.
Back to that offense — I questioned why Charlie Manuel favored Jayson Werth against a right-handed pitcher. Wasn’t this the right spot for Geoff Jenkins? Piniero is a low-ball pitcher and Jenkins is coming off a huge pinch-hit home run. What the heck was that, Charlie? Was there a scout in the crowd watching Werth? Is Jenkins hurt? What’s the reason? Anyone? By the way, Werth went 1-for-4 and left four on base.
Whatever the case, it’s just another night of questions about this offense. Meanwhile the Mets creamed the Giants. Here they come, just 1.5 back with the Marlins.
Associated Press photo
Posts: 0 Geoff
This team has become one of the worst teams in all of baseball in the span of like a month. They horrible now. Gillick did a terrible job putting this team together in the offseason and he has 3 weeks to fix it or else hell be permanently linked with the word failure in this city.
Posted: 09:04 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
The team isnt buiklt for October and at this rate, theyll be lucky to see October unless something is immediately done.
Posted: 09:05 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Werth had a base hit with Burrell on 1st. Maybe it was Howard, I forget. It was one of the slow guys.
BTW Geoff, they’ll see October, from their living room TV’s.
Posted: 09:14 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Come someone please go and tell this wait the wake the f**k up! Outside of Eaton’s recently debacle the pitching has been good enough to win while the teams supposed strength has been its tail like a twenty-five year old dog paralysed from the waist down…
No finger pointing, no blame to be given out just a simple take the field and take responsibility, play some small ball and play like you expect the guy behind you in the line-up to come through. This is not a very good pitching club on paper in many respects and the offense cannot waste good pitching and their getting it, too many wasted outs without something to show and thats not a double or a home-run it’s just tipping the scales in your favour by keeping that guy on the mound so under pressure he’ll do the rest.
The teams waiting for a trade like that’s whats going to win the division, sure we need some more starting pitching but were setting ourself up to be fleeced. If the line-up has to be shaken up then here’s a suggestion, send Ruiz down for a short-stint in AAA and acquire a veteran catcher while Ruiz works towards ’09. DFA Taguchi and bring someone in who’s going to fight for every little bit of playing time he can get.
Too many excuses, too much drama and not enough baseball.
Posted: 09:18 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Ruiz isn’t playing in 09, Marson is. MArson has something like a .450 OBP in the minors. I bet that could equate to a .380 in the majors. Bring him up and let’s see what the kid can do. We’ll bat him in the 8 hole, and I guarantee you that he’ll come through with bases loaded 1 out unlike Ruiz. From what I’ve read he also throws out 45% of base runners, and I’m sure he will be able to do that at a major league level. He supposedly calls a great game too.
Posted: 09:26 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
I agree with playing small ball to try to accomplish runs, especially when
Cole Hamels does what he did last night and can’t even sniff a win. I also agree with trusting the man behind you in the lineup, unless your name is Pedro Feliz, because we all know who hits behind him.
Posted: 09:26 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
How about sit Rollins for a game.. Sit Victorino for a game…
Ruiz probably isn’t going anywhere… I think people are making WAY too big a deal over Ruiz, Taguchi, Condrey etc… when the STARS of the team aren’t doing jack sh!t either!!!!
Posted: 09:28 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Lewisauce
Joel Piniero? Are you fucking kidding me?
CC to the Brewers. Harden to the Cubs. St. Louis just got Mulder back, and Wainwright and Carpenter are set to return by August. Meanwhile, Brett Myers is trying to have “fun” again.
Even if we win the NL East (which looks less and less likely with every GIDP), we ain’t winning a playoff series.
The apologists will say: “It’s a long season; we’re in a slump; we’re still a good team.” Bullshit. This is beyond a slump. The entire offense has been absent for A MONTH. Something is systematically wrong. Actually, a few things:
1.) Except for Burrell, no one is playing with passion.
2.) Our hitters are dumb. No clue how to situationally hit. No clue how to move runners, how to bring a guy home from third with less than two outs, no idea how to study pitchers and read situations.
3.) Our hitters are trying to get by on talent alone. They get up there and whack away at anything (first pitch, 3-1 pitch, whatever) they like. Any pitcher with two brain cells to rub together can outsmart them.
These are fundamental, systematic flaws in the organization. Not flukes. Not slumps. Patterns. And our bullpen is starting to get dinged up. Not to mention that Eaton has been performing way above his ability this year. His last start was the real Eaton, and we can expect more of that.
Our big July acquisition will be Myers’ return to the rotation.
It is time to hit the panic button.
Posted: 09:29 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
everyone acts like ruiz is some kid. he is 29/30 years old! enough already, ship him out of here for a pitching machine so the hitters can take better batting practice.
they are waiting for a trade, the players i mean, because most of them have QUIT!
the pitching?: they have cole hamels, hey kenrdick is young hes developing but right now hes a 4.
the rest of them? happ we dont know because its too early to tell. though i know hes better than adam eaton.
eaton/moyer can only go 5/6 innings before getting smashed. moyer went 8 one game which was awesome but he cant do that too often.
so when you look at it youre getting 5-6 innings onm average from 4 of your 5 starters. you wonder why the bullpen is tired? thats why.
kendrick has been going longer lately which is encouraging. now they neeed happ to improve on his first start. eaton is a piece of garbage and bedard or whoever the new guy is can replace him and they can just pay him to go away or DFA then trade him for money or a crummy prospect.
bring up lou marson, combine vic/werth into a platoon, trade for another everyday outfielder. try to get rid of jenkins and bring up someone to be the 5th guy and replace taguchi with your new traded-for OF.
get someone else to help the bullpen out too. swindle actually is ok for that though. condrey will be sent down once gordon comes back and swindle will stay on the roster. gordon is done in my opinion though and needs to be replaced with a traded-for setup man.
theyre just flat out not close to good enough. they have a lot of work to do internally and externally to improve this team.
Posted: 09:33 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
I’d add Howard, Feliz, and Werth to that list. Werth and Howard are both on a 10 game hitting streak. Feliz has been hitting the ball really well since that grand slam. Chase Utley if he’s on he’s on. He’ll give you all or nothing. 3 hits in a game or 0 hits in a game. I’m getting sick of his streakyness too. He hasn’t been hitting in the clutch at all the past month either. Something needs to happen, big time.
Posted: 09:34 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
I’d love to see Marson up as the everyday catcher in ’09 but I don’t think it’ll happen, the organsation is very conservative with it’s catchers and consider themselves to have young catchers with massive upside in the system with nothing to show at the major league level.
Right now we have nothing to loose from an offensive standpoint sending Ruiz down and maybe just maybe spending the rest of the minor-league season in AAA will show a side of him we might want to keep around. A veteran catcher should be relitavely inexpensive and would allow that to happen but the pitching could suffer.
From the Inquirer online today: “I feel very fortunate or lucky,” manager Charlie Manuel said. “Ever since we had a four-game lead, we haven’t played very good.”
Posted: 09:37 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
lewisauce is exactl yright. this is a pattern taht has manifested itself over the whole season. now its gone way out of control. i want to see lou marson right now brought up.
i was thinking…the cubs did it the way the phillies shouldve done it with your front end here. check this out.
their home-grown stud is zambrano, ours is hamels.
their closer turned starter? dempster outs? myers
they noticed the need to get a number 2 so they get harden whos actually a 1. we know the need but have yet to see it.
here the thing. dempster fits perfectly into the 3 slot because thats EXACTLY where he should be. hes a good 3. myers failed to make that transition and not only do we not have a 2, we dont evne have a 3.
moyer? 4 eaton? 000. kendrick? 4 right now but 3 in the future.
so there are 2 huge holes in the rotation. theyll probably only fill one. unless JA happ can become a 3. well have to deal with that in th eoffseason. right now just give me a number 2 and some bullpen help and the pitching will be better.
Posted: 09:40 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
I’d also add Victorino to that list. He’s been playing with a lot of enthusiasm. He isn’t the best hitter on the team, but he’s not the worst. He’s always super excited. If Werth was our everyday right fielder I think the outfield would be fine. I would actually like to see them trade for Giles. Maybe platoon him and Werth in RF. I still think Werth should be everyday though. Marson needs to come up for Ruiz though. He’s just clueless and looks like a deer in headlights when he’s in a situation with bases loaded 1 out.
Posted: 09:40 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Our boy Milt Thompson is going to get shown the gate soon if they don’t start hitting..
Nobody is acting like Ruiz is a kid… but he IS the 8-hole hitter, so why everyone expects this guy to be hitting the ball is hard for me to grasp.. He’s here for his defense and his ability to call a game behind the plate. Nobody knows if Marson will hit at this level or not.. and when the rest of the team is struggling too, that ain’t the time to try it.
Everyone has been commenting on how much better the pitching staff is doing, or how much better than we thought they would.. part of that is Carlos Ruiz.. if more than 2 starters were hitting above .280, we’d be fine
Posted: 09:41 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Well said by Lewisauce, Gillick has brought the club forward but the trappings of the Wade administration are still very much there. I’m not saying this is the wrong way of doing it and trust the scouts but the high risk high reward way of drafting says a lot about how the organisation is as a whole and trying to get by on talent’s not going to get you to where you want to go.
Look at the Rays; all the talent in the world and they were a sub .500 team, they start playing baseball as a team and they become a team capable of seeing October.
Posted: 09:46 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 That Guy
Has anyone noticed that despite getting pulled from a game, Rollins is still not running out ground balls. Howard rarely does as well. Howard’s laissez faire approach to life seeps through into his fielding, strikeots, baserunning etc. Most of these guys, other than the bullpen, act like they are entitled to be division champs. That is what scares me the most about a team like the Marlins. They are playing with the house’s money and we continue to “comp” the shit out of them.
Posted: 09:49 AM on July 9, 2008
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Posted: 09:51 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Well ‘That Guy’ just said it in one…
Posted: 09:51 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Tyler - Mets Fan!
Oh yeah! Mets only 1.5 GB! Phillies Suck!
Posted: 09:51 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
The Rays are a nice collection of home-grown studs and a few castaway role players who play with heart and who play skilled funadmental baseball. That team would blow the phillies out three games in a row. their pitching staff is chalked full of home grown studs except gor garza who still is a stud.
I would welcome a contact patient hitter in the front half of the lineup to platoon with werth or stand on their own and platoon in CF. jenkins can sit on the bench and pinch hit until you get rid of him in the offseason.
Posted: 09:52 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Can we get that Mets fan who’s not a moron like these two?
Posted: 09:53 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Rollins has shown no heart at all this season. If he wasnt the MVP Id openly advocate for his trading too. He has not done anything at all this year to help this team. He hasnt been as active defensively but hess still a great defender when he wants to be.
Posted: 09:54 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
1.5 games behind the Phillies… thats almost about where the Muts were last year after they choked on it down the stretch…
Posted: 09:55 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I knwo right? the rest of these guys are like mentally retarded cochroach scum.
theres like one mets fan who knows what they are talking about on here.
Posted: 09:56 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Yo does anyone else hate the fact that 3-Utley, 4-Howard, 5- Burrell is still the batting on most nights ???
I understand the part about making them pitch to Howard and what not, but that seems like a good way to change the lineup for the better right now..
Posted: 09:57 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Was that cute little rap from Pimp Daddy supposed to make any sense at all??
I bet his boyfriend dared him to write that..
Posted: 09:58 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Lewisauce
Phil, I’ll agree with you on Vic. He’s playing with some heart. Feliz is too, but Feliz will never be the “sparkplug” or “leader” who ignites the team. I’m really complaining about Jimmy, Chase … even Howard. K-How’s been hitting pretty well lately, but two of our three MVPs are not. And Jimmy just looks … listless out there half the time.
And “heart” isn’t the biggest problem. It’s their approach to hitting. Dallas Green was on the radio the other day, and he was complaining about the situational hitting too. He said it’s pervasive throughout MLB. Guys want to get up there and swing for the fences so they can get big contracts and make Sports Center highlights, sell more jerseys and be on billboards. Guys don’t care if they make bad outs because, as long as their numbers are good at the end of the year, they feel like studs.
I’m afraid that’s kind of what’s happening here. Not so much with the contracts, but with the idea that the hitters are simply trying to use stud talent to win games. You can’t do that at the highest level. You have to play as a team, make sacrifices for the team, understand the role you need to play on an at-bat by at-bat basis to give the team the best chance to win.
It’s panic button time because this shit was obvious from the start and is still happening. Not to mention, the NL Central is fucking scary.
Posted: 10:03 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Lewisauce
Is Pimp Daddy posting from jail or something? Is it possible for anyone that stupid to be part of society? (Do they even give you computer time in NY State Correctional Facilities?)
Posted: 10:06 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 MS
the NL east is terrible. the phils, the muts, the marlins. all of them. there isn’t a team that is built to compete in the playoffs. sadly the moves the teams in the central have made and the poor playing the last month have really taken a lot out of the sails.
lets just enjoy the games and hope the team gets hot at the right time. at this point it’ll take a run like the rockies last year to really compete, and thats just luck.
Posted: 10:07 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Yeah they need some situational hitters desperatly. just go get me someone who can do that p-lease
don..youre right on about the heart of the lineup. its stale and when they move them around they seem to fare better.
last years stretch-run order was so much better
rollins
utley
burrell
howard
rowand
werth
this year they need to do that as well but by the deadline they need a 5 hole hitter so they can get back to that. HOWEVER, this time I would switch howard and burrell in the order for the rest of the season.
they dont have a true 2-hole guy really so you can mask that by putting utley there. vic is not a 2-hole hitter because he swings at gutterballs.
Posted: 10:09 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 william
ruiz is killing this team-16 double plays is enough–he needs to go–he can take taguchi with him!
Posted: 10:12 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NEPA
I agree with what everybody is saying on here. I don’t know if it’s quite panic button time but it will be if we finish of this half by losing 3 or 4 out of the last 5. If we’re still in first at the all star break then maybe some time off will do these guys good and they’ll start playing the way they’re capable of when they return. I still say bring up Marson, get Ruiz “6-4-3″ outta here. He is our 8-hole hitter so I don’t expect much production, but he is an absolute offensive cancer. Yes, the big names aren’t playing that well, but even when they were he still blew ass. I’d also love to see Taguchi DFA’d for a young outfielder. Not Bohn though, he’s awful. If Golson is healthy I think he could be a nice spark.
Pitching wise, I know we need help but is Bedard really the answer? He just missed a start within the past week AND that would make 4 lefties in our rotation assuming Happ sticks around for at least a while. I don’t know what Gillick is thinking right now, but he better be ready to jump on some opportunities or this team will be starting another playoff drought.
Posted: 10:13 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Lewissauce, As much as I agree with most of you just said, there’s two things I disagree with. I do believe we will try to grab a pitcher at the deadline, hope to god we do that and more. I really dont think that Gillick is just gonna throw in the white flag with this being his last season here and us still in first. It is not time to hit the panic button. Its the all star break, we’re halfway through and in first, for now. An ideal lineup after the deadline would be Dejesus or Freel or Taveras platooning with Werth/Vic in center and right with Burrell occupying left. We should also try to get Fuentes but I cant imagine doing this without losing a quality player here or Donald in the minors.
Posted: 10:16 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Bedards got the best stuff out there though. You could get away with AJ Burnett I think. Hes been healthIER this season. His numbers arent as good though. They might go get someone out of nowehere, which is what im beginning to think they will do. I just hope they make it good.
16GIDP for anyone is too much. thats automatic cutting or demotion for ruiz with those numbers. just putrid.
Posted: 10:17 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
I’ll take this team playing good solid fudemental baseball over a run, look at the Rox this year. We have a window where anything is possible and this team has to be strengthened for that, not going all Cubbies on the market, but starting to be productive even in losses.
They need to start excerting some pressure on the other team to play the kind of poor ball were playing and if a team walks out of CBP it better be with their pitching paying the price mentality, if a starter has thrown 70 pitches through 3 then you have him on the rails.
The ‘stars’ on this team seem to have forgotten a great stats happens when your playing good baseball, you swing for the stats and you’ll be playing the platoon game with a guy named Mendoza. Chase came out of the gates like an MVP and hit all those dingers because his game was on, Werth has been productive in stints through the year because his game was on as with Burrell.
Again too many words, too many paycheck stats and not enough goddamn baseball.
Posted: 10:17 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I do want opposing pitchers to hate pitching here and just view it as a horrible experience. they need to get back to making that happen.
Posted: 10:20 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 OZ
we can’t even hang w/ average NL teams right now. meanwhile the Cubs & Brewers made SERIOUS upgrades.
start dangling Howard in front of the Yanks & Red Sox, see what they offer. no way Phils are going to sign him to what he wants, and then he remains unhappy.
hope you can sell Myers for some prospects as well. anyone else?
would we have enough talent, combined with fresh strong prospects, we could be the Rays in 09 or 10???
Posted: 10:28 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NEPA
Tonight, we have to pray that Happ stays out of trouble early and our offense jumps all over Mulder. We haven’t jumped all over teams in a long long time. All season we’ve relied on hitting late and making the big comebacks, but lately we haven’t been able to get the big hits. We must score first tonight and try and build some momentum.
Posted: 10:29 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
They really should make a move at DeJesus or Giles. Both hit for average and both play fundamentally sound baseball. A Werth/Victorino platoon in right with DeJesus playing CF would be ridiculous. As much ground as Vic covers in CF his arm makes him a RF. Try to make a blockbuster trade for DeJesus and Greiger(did I spell that right?) KC is desperate and will probably take total trash for them. Then next year if Burrell walks Werth can play everyday in LF. I’d even include Vic in the trade to KC. Whynot? They’d probably like a cost efficient CF to replace DeJesus. Then maybe you can even go over to the Pads and ask the Pads for Mad Dog and Giles for cheap. Giles and Mad Dog have a combined age of 4,986 or something like that. I’m sure they’ll get unloaded for nothing.
Posted: 10:30 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Red Sox would never want Howard. Yankees won’t give us anything we need. If we’re gonna trade Howard it HAS to be for a #1 pitcher. I doubt we’ll get that, but that’s the only thing worth trading Howard for. As much as I hate his strike outs and .230ish BA, the guy will still drive in 80 RBI’s before the all-star break. That’s pretty sick imo.
Posted: 10:32 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
The Yankees dont even have enough untouchable stuff to make a deal for howard. their minors are barren.
Id go after David DeJesus. Hes still liek 26 or something like that I think too. Im al over that trade if im Gillick. KC will want Jason Donald and Some Pitching prospect like bastardo.
Posted: 10:34 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
They are close enough now with their talent level…that they don’t need to add prospects, and wait 2-3 years.
A couple things:
1. Burnett has some crazy option next year, that is scaring teams away… if he pitches good, he’ll opt-out and go get another contract, if he pitches crappy, he takes the option and you still pay him $$$$$ next year.
2. The Daily News has Ruiz as hitting into 11 double-plays this year… which is still crappy. BUT AGAIN, HE’S THE 8-HOLE HITTER… He’s not the problem.
3. The Phillies are 20-7 when Jimmy Rollins scores at least one run… when he doesn’t, they are 13-27 … He needs to pick his game up ASAP!
4. Myers isn’t going anywhere, anytime soon.. his value is as low as can be, you are better off keeping him and trying to get him to return to that no-hit through 7 form that he had one month ago…. why trade him and get nothing in return?
5. Howard is under the teams control for the next few years… there is no need to sign him longterm, or trade him right now.. he has to go through the arbitration years just like everyone else.
…more to follow… (I know you guys can’t wait)
Posted: 10:35 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NYC PIMP DaDDy
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Posted: 10:41 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 chris m
Get rid of ruiz… I dont care about his defense or calling the game. Maybe he calls such a good game bc half the time hes out there he has hamels throwing which makes him look good. People on here say they dont know what marson is going to do. But i will garentee that he waont be hhitting as bad as Ruiz and wont have the number of KEY double plays ruiz has!
Posted: 10:43 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
FuH KiNg DoRK +.
Posted: 10:43 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NYC PIMP DaDDy
Sell Myers for some prospects?
You Phillanthropy Plagellen Phools.
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Get a clue.
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Posted: 10:44 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
What if you bring Marson up… and he hits .225… and doesn’t call games as well as Ruiz… so then the rest of your pitching staff gets exposed and your bullpen, which for some reason has been awesome so far this year starts showing their 5.00 ERAs
I’d say call Donald up to sit Rollins down right now before I worried anymore about Ruiz… honestly he’s WAY far down on the list of problems this team is having right now
Posted: 10:46 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I know about Burnett, he has a poison pill contract. Gillick is a desperate man though.
I disagree about ruiz. you cant have a rally killer in there. theyre struggling so bad that when you get something going this guy automatically ruins it. liek clockwork. cant hit at all. just, all im asking for is someone else back there who isnt the worst hitting catcher in baseball.
Posted: 10:47 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
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Posted: 10:50 AM on July 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I agree with what you guys are saying… RUIZ sucks balls at the plate… Im pretty sure that I could hit like .172 or something… which ain’t far behind him.
BUT they shouldn’t EVER count on the bottom of the order to knock in runs.. you stucture your lineup so that the top guys get one.. the middle knocks them in.. and bottom makes contact and you HOPE that good things might happen.
I just don’t understand why people are all over Ruiz and Jenkins and Condrey and whoever else when Rollins and Victorino have been TERRIBLE over the past month
Posted: 10:52 AM on July 9, 2008