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Trade Deadline Reset

Posted by Tim Malcolm, Wed, July 30, 2008 06:48 AM | Comments: 228
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We’re a little more than one day from the non-waiver trade deadline, aka the most hyped in-season day in any sport. The Phillies, obviously in contention, are close to — if not, the top team in the midst of trade talks. To put everyone on the same page, I’m resetting everything we know, don’t know and kind of want to think we know.

July 17: Phillies trade Adrian Cardenas (IF), Josh Outman (P) and Matt Spencer (OF) to Oakland for Joe Blanton (SP)
A major deal, netting the Phillies a starting pitcher for a top-five prospect, a top-10 prospect and a low-level pseudo-prospect. As a Phillie, Blanton has been somewhat inconclusive (8 IP, 7 ER, 11 H, 4 BB, 2 K) but it currently doesn’t look promising. Cardenas, about two years from Major League impact, was seemingly blocked by the Phils middle infield stars. Outman, converted to a reliever after a rough patch as a Reading starter, was a fastball/changeup lefty close to becoming an MLB-level player. The jury, however, is still out on this trade.

Rumored: Phillies trade Shane Victorino (OF), Carlos Carrasco (P), Lou Marson (C), JA Happ (P) to Colorado for Matt Holliday (OF) and Brian Fuentes (P)
An absolute blockbuster that surfaced by the usually truthful Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports, the Phils would’ve gained a studly outfielder and solid back-end reliever for a big bounty. Supposedly the deal was nixed late. It would’ve cleaned out the Phillies farm system, with the No. 1 prospect, catcher-of-the-future and potential No. 3 starter heading west with the starting center fielder for at least another year. An absolute win-now move. Fuentes has since been taken off the trading block, and Holliday seems to be off, as well.

Rumored: Phillies trade Jason Donald (IF), Adrian Cardenas (IF) and JA Happ (P) to Cleveland for CC Sabathia (P)
According to Indians General Manager Mark Shapiro, the Phillies were the backup plan for Sabathia. Ultimately, he went to the Brewers, where he is currently 4-0 with an ERA under 2.00. This seemed to be the deal, but the Phils weren’t willing to part with Carrasco or Marson for Sabathia, who is under contract only until the end of the season.

Rumored: Phillies trade Jason Donald (IF) to Kansas City for Ron Mahay (P)
According to Jayson Stark, his sources (other general managers) said this deal was almost done. That was a little before noon Tuesday. In about an hour or so, Stark refuted his original claim and Rosenthal backed it up. Currently the Phillies are not the team in the lead for the left-hander.

Rumored: Phillies trade Lou Marson (C), Jason Donald (IF), JA Happ (P) and PTBNL to Toronto for Roy Halladay (P)
This came from Howard Eskin on 610 WIP Tuesday — not a great source, but it opened discussion. Supposedly the Phillies found out what it would take to get the all-world starter, and made an offer late today. Toronto rejected it, asking to put Fabio Castro in the deal. I’m not sure if Toronto wanted Castro or if Eskin misread Carlos Carrasco; either way, this deal would significantly reduce the farm system, though it would give the Phils maybe the best pitcher in baseball. I don’t expect anything to come out of this.

Players Inquired About

Starting Pitchers

AJ Burnett, Toronto (P)
Before the Blanton trade, Burnett seemed to be the Phils major focus. The Phils scouted him and talks evidently occurred, but Toronto wanted one of either Carrasco or Marson (really, Marson). The Phils said no.

Erik Bedard, Seattle (P)
Along with Burnett, Bedard was a top prize for the Phillies. Bedard seemed to be high on the trading block with the Mariners sinking fast, and the lefty even went on 950 AM in Philly to discuss his situation with the Mariners. But no rumored deal ever came to fruition, nor was there any indication the sides were talking. Once Blanton came through, this talk went by the wayside.

Bronson Arroyo, Cincinnati (P)
The Phillies “kicked the tires” at the righty who is having a poor year in Cincinnati.

Jarrod Washburn, Seattle (P)
Another tire-kicker, Washburn almost seemed set to go to the Yankees, but that has stalled.

Ben Sheets, Milwaukee (P)
The Phils scouted the All Star, but Milwaukee wasn’t looking to give up Sheets.

Greg Maddux, San Diego (P)
The Phils also scouted the Hall of Famer, but indications are he’d prefer either Los Angeles, Arizona, the Cubs or Atlanta.

Roy Oswalt, Houston (P)
The Phillies evidently scouted Oswalt, but the Astros don’t seem intent on giving up Oswalt, instead thinking they somehow have a shot this year.

Outfielders

Manny Ramirez, Boston (OF)
“Manny Wants Out of Boston Part XXIV” has somehow dropped the Phillies deep into the chapters. There should be truth to the rumor the Phils have asked about him. SI.com’s Jon Heyman is saying the Phils lead the charge to trade for the Hall of Fame hitter, but Heyman can’t be trusted as far as I can throw him (which isn’t far). Rumors have Ramirez coming here for Pat Burrell — a lateral move, and a dumb one from where I sit. Burrell is perfect for this team; Manny is the antithesis of Burrell.

Left-Handed Relief Pitchers

John Grabow, Pittsburgh (P)
The left-handed reliever seemed high on the Phillies’ list of left-handed relievers, but a recent injury has said to have scared the Phils off. Don’t be so sure, however.

Arthur Rhodes, Seattle (P)
Once a Phillie — and a bad one at that — Rhodes has found somewhat of a renaissance with the Mariners. Pat Gillick has a long work relationship with him, so it’s possible the Phils could strike an easy deal for the lefty.

George Sherrill, Baltimore (P)
The lefty is having a nice year with the Orioles, and the Phils have been said to be asking about him. Still, heavy thought is the O’s aren’t giving him up.

Other Possibilities

Starting Pitchers

Probably none at the non-waiver. Blanton was the move, and unless a ridiculous blockbuster with Toronto for Halladay occurs, the Phillies seem finished for now. Don’t count out a waiver move, however, especially if Brett Myers falters again or Blanton doesn’t pan out.

Outfielders

Something tells me the Phils won’t make an outfielder move unless it’s a big bat, a la Holliday or Ramirez. Even then the Phils would have to give up an outfielder (Victorino, Werth or Burrell) to get one. They haven’t been attached to Jason Bay, Adam Dunn or Raul Ibanez, and didn’t seem like runners in the Xavier Nady/Damaso Marte race. Look for a waiver claim, but then again, I could be shocked.

Just to add, the Phillies did show interest in Cleveland infielder/outfielder Casey Blake, but the Phils supposedly finished second in that sweepstakes.

Left-Handed Relief Pitcher

Not much else out there, as the Phils inquired about everyone worthy of inquisition. One other name: Jeremy Affeldt, who the Phils have asked about in previous seasons. Lefties are hitting slightly worse against him, but he has an ERA over 4.00 this season. If I had to point blindly at a target, I’d say the Phils overpay for Mahay or Grabow.

Other

A relief pitcher in general is a possibility, and Dan Wheeler of Tampa Bay has been mentioned. Can’t see the Rays giving him up, however. Look for a small pickup (maybe an infielder) after waivers. Gillick has a nice track record with the Phils in this arena (Jamie Moyer, Kyle Lohse).

Commentary

From almost day one, the Phillies said they were making Carlos Carrasco and Lou Marson untouchable. They’ve stood by that assertion (except for Holliday, if that’s true), and it makes sense. While it would’ve been nice to see the Phils go all-in to win now, their farm system isn’t as rich (allegedly) as other contenders’ (Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs). Truth is, you can’t deplete your entire farm system, especially when you’ve taken a couple years to rebuild it.

It was hard enough giving up Cardenas and Outman, and at this moment it seems like too much for Blanton. But they were strategic moves, better or worse, and don’t really harm the Phils’ long view. They tried for Sabathia but just couldn’t give it all up for a guy who they weren’t even sure they could re-sign. That’s the way it goes — when you empty your system in the past, you pay for it in the future.

The Phillies will almost definitely grab a left-handed reliever before the deadline passes. It would either cost them a Jason Donald (Mahay, Grabow) or a little more than cash (Rhodes). I’m hoping more cash than Donald, but then again, I don’t want Rhodes, I want Mahay. Don’t bet on a big deal for a Halladay or — forbid — Ramirez. I’m sorry, but Manny is bad news for the Phillies. They should — and probably have — stay away. Anyway, add a waiver claim or two and a later deal for a hitter and the Phils will be all set. In their eyes. Is it enough to go the distance? It’s possible.

Avatar of Tim Malcolm

About Tim Malcolm

Tim Malcolm has written 1947 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    nicely done. I hadn’t heard the new Halladay rumor, and don’t really expect anything to come out of it. At this point, I’m not really expecting anything until August.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    The only move the Phils are making is for Arthur Rhodes (the first relief pitcher I remember disliking as a child – he stinks). The Phillies won’t do anything other than this cheap ass move. They won’t even get Mahay – they just won’t. All of those other rumors are just that, rumors. Not even close.

    Oh, and it doesn’t help that our whole minor league system is ranked so low (who knows how they even do this, I don’t buy any of it). Eevryone says, “Well the Phillies don’t have any top prospects to trade.” Bullshit – prospects are so overrated – who cares. All of that Phillies prospect talk even has douches like Tim McCarver and Joe Morgan saying, “oh yeah, the Phillies don’t have much to trade, I don’t think they’re in the market for any of these A-list type guys blah blah blah.” They don’t know shit. No one does. These players are 19 years old.

    Anyway, even if our prospects were deamed as “top prospects”, nothing would happen anyway.

    Oh, and one more thing – everyones hero, Carlos Carrasco, Monday night vs. Harrisburg:
    5.2 IP, 6 ER, 4 BB’s, 7 K’s

    There ya go. My dad was there, said the more the threw, the worse he got. The guy completely imploded in the 5th inning. So, that’s your number one prospect right there. If people want him so bad, get him out of here.

     
  • Posts: 0 Fred

    Manny says he wants to come to the Phillies.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    Manny also says he’s worth 20 mil.

     
  • Posts: 0 Fred

    He wants to be a FA next year plus Boston will pickup some of his salary this year. Additionally, the Phillies are not going to pay anyone 20 mil next year or in the future (and that includes Howard).

     
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    Carrasco is 21 years old, so why don’t we give him some more time. I read he was dominant for the first 4 innings, before giving up a grand slam in the 5th. That’s why he’s in Double A, he’s still learning to pitch and develop. Prospects are valuable, but they are called prospects for a reason. And don’t say prospects are overrated, may I remind you that Jimmy Rollins, Pat the Bat, Chase Utley, Ryan Howard, and Cole Hamels are all home grown prospects. Last I checked, they aren’t what most call overrated.

    on a side note, Carlos Ruiz is also a prospect, so what do I know…

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Carlos Ruiz was also a 2B prospect. He moved to catcher because he was blocked, obviously. He went from being a 2B to being a great defensive catcher. Just food for thought.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    MA Phanatic: Do you really want me to go down the list of baseballs top prospects from 2000-2005? Trust me, it favors my argument.

     
  • Posts: 0 Rick

    Whatever happened to the Phillies interest in Alex Rios? What do you guys think about him?

    I haven’t really seen him play much other than when the Phillies play Toronto in interleague.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    give me a break manny woiuld loosen this club house up i hope they do trade burrell for manny…better average better RBI producers…and honestly if manny comes to cbp he will have more HRs then burrell @ the end of the season…i love burrell but manny would give this lineup more of a scare then burrell does

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    you cant be a baseball fan and honestly believe not havin manny on this team makes the phillies better then the mets…

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    fuck the antics hes comes to our team for 2 months and will get us into the playoffs and who knows past then…manny also lights it up in the postseason

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Eh, Burrell is having a career year. Manny is a future hall of famer. It’s a total wash to me. I’d rather have Burrell because he’s been my 2nd favorite Phillie since like 2002, up until now and he’s my favorite since Rollins is a fucking joke now.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    Rollins isn’t a joke – he’ll come around.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    i don’t trust the phils but i am willing to guarentee we get manny for a lot of reason 1 most being charlie manuel loveeeeesssssss him….i would like a Lefty reliever but i believe our bullpen is fine the way it is…

    this offense has been struggling ever since june…manny changes that

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    this isnt a lateral move…manny changes enviorment and bang you got 40 bangers 100 pluss RBIS .310ish BA….how great would it be to watch him beat down on the metsssssss….

     
  • Posts: 0 Rick

    I think everyone is making too big of a deal about J-Roll right now! He’ll be fine and he’s not going anywhere. He’s the spark for this team! He and Shane on base make Chase, Ryan, and Pat even more dangerous hitters because of the distraction.

    They said last night on MASN that the Phillies have only lost 8 games when Jimmy scores. That’s unreal!

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    I’ll take Manny if they shrink our outfield and Victorino does a line of coke everytime he goes out into the outfield so he gets the extra boost to run down balls in between those 2 guys. Burrell can not be involved in the trade, and they wouldn’t want Victorino, believe me.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    Would Manny be a great addition to this team? Yes.
    Would the swap of Burrell make sense? No.
    What can you make of these Manny rumors? Nothing.
    Is Manny going to be a Phillie? No.
    Ever? Never.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    yeah jimmys fine take it eZ…

    I’d love that halliaday trade…i’d drive each prospect to the airport for that man plus hes signed through 2010…hamels halliaday wow

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Yeah, well Jimmy needs to get on base to score. Also, Jimmy should take the team bus. He’s the team leader. Take the bus with the rest of the team you douche bag. He better come around. Stop doing commercials for ESPN and study pitchers.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    There, I just answered all of your questions. Let’s move forward.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    explain why doesnt this manny trade make sense he no less a better defender then burrell so thats a wash./… hits 25 points higher then burrell….will hit more HRs when its all said in done then burrell @ CBP…better RBI producer then burrell…like how doesnt that make sense

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    I’d do the Halladay trade if they took out Marson and added Carrasco. Marson CANNOT be a part of any trade, unless you want to continue using a Ruiz/Coste platoon next year.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    if i got bases loaded 2 outs i want manny up not burrell…plain and simple this trade makes sense

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    HALLIADAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!….i’d trade the farm for him…i here what you saying about marson but cmon a 1 2 with a hamels and halladay

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Um, Burrell has less RBI’s because he bats in the 5 hole. Manny bats in the 4 hole. Look at Howard vs. Manny…catch my drift? I know Manny has men on base when he comes to bat.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    ok…manny also had no ortiz with protection either so he was the biggest and only bat in the lineup…1 spot in the lineup doesnt make a difference…

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    Tom: Money.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    its 6 mil then burrell and plus its half a contract being paid…i know that teh problem but if you wanna win this year the best chance is to get manny…this offense is plain

     
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    hey remember that time Pat Burrell had a full out no-trade clause and refused to waive it to go to Boston? Guess what Manny isn’t coming. Not only that, but Manny would destroy this clubhouse not loosen it. He divides players, with half loving him and half hating him…I don’t think he’d mesh well.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    read the article MA phantic he said he would waive to go to boston or yanks

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    This stat is for close and late games.
    AB AVG HR RBI SO
    Player 1: 59 .237 5 14 15
    Player 2: 55 .308 6 18 17

    Which player would you rather have up with bases loaded bottom of the 9th down by 1?

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Mike Lowell is on the Red Sox protecting Manny who is arguably the most clutch hitter on that team. Ortiz bats in front of him. So does Pedroia and Ellsbury.

     
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    Tom i’m assuming you’re talking about the Heyman article? That article has been blown up by several baseball men who have talked to Philadelphia officials and Burrell won’t waive the clause.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    ok but ortiz jusst came back…im not sdayin bostons lineup is not good…elsbury is not having a good year look @ his stats

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Okay, well Pedroia is and Drew was batting in front of him before Ortiz who is having a monster year. You never answered my question…player 1 or 2?

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    Like Ramirez, Burrell has a no-trade clause. In the past, Burrell has indicated a willingness to waive his no-trade provision only to go to Boston or the Yankees.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    what baseball people blew that story up…?

     
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    yeah but that’s been in the past in this instance he won’t waive the clause.

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Boston asked for Burrell straight up for J.D. Drew a few years ago. They wanted to move Manny and wanted Burrell as their back up plan. Burrell said no. Burrell would not leave the Phillies. Player 1 or Player 2?

     
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    Here’s an article from the Phils official site, which includes a quick hit on Burrell’s clause

    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080730&content_id=3222982&vkey=news_phi&fext=.jsp&c_id=phi&partnerId=rss_phi

     
  • Posts: 0 MA Phanatic

    Phil, what’s the contract situation for player 1 and 2, if you are doing a straight up comparison, that should be factored in

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    Player 3, Chase Utley.

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Would you like player 3′s statistics for close and late? He’s the worst of the 3.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    You know…I oviously aint stupid i know it a long shot but I’m am tired of the wait till the prospects come up or anything…they need to make a move either for halliday holliday or manny…preferbly halliaday

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Aw, if I told you the contract situation for player 1 and player 2 it would give it away.

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    If you want someone to come to your team learn to spell his name.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike T.

    No, because I don’t care.

     
  • Posts: 0 Phil

    Regardless of the situation, since Tom doesn’t want to answer…Burrell is player 2 Manny is player 1. I’d rather have Burrell up in the bottom of the 9th with bases loaded and down by 1. If it was October, I’d change my mind.

     
 
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