Two Hours Left: Eerily Quiet On The Phillies Phront

Posted by Tim Malcolm, Thu, July 31, 2008 02:10 PM | Comments: 177

Two hours to go before the non-waiver trade deadline, and nothing yet.

In other news, Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports is echoing many allegations that the Manny Ramirez-to-Florida deal is dead.

Will the Phillies do anything at all before 4 p.m.?

In fact, just looking at the whole day so far, there has barely been a peep about or from the Phillies. It’s as if the Phils are silently concocting some mad plan. Maybe not, but it’s eerie how quiet it’s been over here, while at least there’s been word the Mets, Angels and A’s aren’t dealing at all.

Trades made today:

  • Rays trade two prospects for OF Jason Bay
  • Marlins trade prospect for RP Arthur Rhodes
  • White Sox trade for OF Ken Griffey Jr.
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Tim Malcolm has written 1947 articles on Phillies Nation.

  • Posts: 0 Rob

    I love people who still argue after the trade deadline is over just because they are pissed and want to have the last word. It’s over dude, let it go.

  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    maddux will be waived.

  • Posts: 0 Geoff


    theyll get some waiver-wire reject. probably two or three of them actually.

    i forgot how long it takes before they start waiving people, a week or so? i cant remember

  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    maybe right away, becuase thye got lohse after 4pm didnt they?

  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    maybe right away, becuase thye got lohse on the same day or the next day

  • Posts: 0 Rob

    So maddux declines a trade to Philadelphia, but if he’s waived, can (not that they would) the Phils claim him off waivers? Or does he still have a say in the matter even if he gets waived.

  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    i dont know. that would be funny though, right?

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Any news on Bay? Sounds like the deal fell through although LA might have tried to ressurect the threeway

  • Posts: 0 Jamie

    Geoff, you’re bashing the shit out of the Phils’ front office, yet you don’t even know how waivers work? Wow. And next I ask you this, since the Phils FO is “asleep at the wheel” (you should trademark that phrase)…what did Florida or the Mets do to bolster their teams before the deadline? Arthur Fucking Rhodes? Come on. The Phils aren’t the big losers you like to think they are. They can win the division without being forced to make moves.

  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I need to brush up on waivers i forgot, yes.

    but heres all i need to say: 1) they did nothing

    2) anyone they get is someone whos basically being CUT!

  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    I remember when Citizens Bank Park first opened, people were saying how it was going to be tough to get good pitchers to come to the Phillies, and that the Phils would have to overpay to sign anyone good.Well, maybe that’s part of the problem, CBP no doubt has gotten a reputation among pitchers-if you want your ERA to go up real fast, just pitch a few innings in Phila. And let’s face it, Phils FO is NEVER going to overpay for anything(knowingly). So I’m wondering if we are permanently screwed in the pitching dept.? Someone like Myers, who is already a head case, can probably go over the edge thinking about all the HRs he’ll give up here.
    Holy crap, most of you guys are young enough to be my sons, wait until you’re my age(54), or better yet, my dad’s age(86) and still have only seen 1 baseball championship, no Superbowls, and an occasional Stanley Cup. Yet I still follow them all, bitch about them every day, and follow blogs like this one. It’s an addiction, and I don’t care! Soon time for DNL on Comcast, where I can commiserate even more.

  • Posts: 0 Kennedy

    A no trade clause means that they cannot do anything with Maddux besides release him without his permission.

    And Pete, the deal you thought up or believed or whatever is still retarded, because the Phillies have would be taking on too much salary, and Red Sox fans would see it as trading Manny straight up for Werth. Why would the Phillies agree to pay Manny 6m for the rest of the year, pay the Red Sox 9m, and send away Werth, who is basically free. It doesn’t really make sense for either team. Retard. That would basically be 15m, plus 1 year of Jayson Werth at arbitration prices, for 60 games with Manny. Thanks, but thats retarded.

  • Posts: 0 NJ

    The Mets have really let the Phils off the hook, we have to capitalise on that immediately. Very surprised Minaya didn’t acquire an outfielder.

  • Posts: 0 Jamie

    The Waivers system works like this, in a nutshell to those of you who don’t know. Unlike what Geoff is suggesting, players aren’t “waived” in the traditional sense that the team cuts ties with them. The Phils could put Ryan Howard on the waiver list (they can put up to 7 players a day on waivers). They still own and control the player. That player is essentially on “waivers” for 48 hours, and other teams within that division can select them. In other words, if the Phils put Brett Myers on waivers, any other NL team (in reverse order depending on record) can claim him. Then, once a team claims him, the Phils and that team have another 48 hours to work out a trade. If it falls through, the Phils can put him back on waivers for another 48 hours, etc. At any time, the Phils can pull the player back off of waivers. This is usually done if a team tries to block a trade. For instance, if the Padres tried trading Maddux to the Mets, any team in the NL with a worse record could block it by claiming Maddux. In other words, the Marlins could claim him. If that happened, either the Marlins could work out a deal with the Padres, the Padres could take Maddux off of waivers, or they could wash their hands of Maddux altogether and give him away (for nothing) to the Marlins. If a player clears waivers in that league (nobody takes him), then it goes to the opposite league, where the same process takes place. If the player clears waivers there, then the team (Padres) could do any kind of trade imagineable that they wanted to do with him with any team they choose. Hope this helps.

  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    thanks for cvlearing that up. its still not as promising as the normal trade process. but i hope they get at least someone to help in ANY way.

    they have to hope now, because they failed to act.

  • Posts: 0 Jamie

    The Pirates look like they’ve gotten shafted again. Manny to LAD, Bay to BOS, and the centerpiece of the deal, Moss, goes to PIT along with three others.

  • Posts: 0 Pete

    Well, I see we’ve backed off of the claim that the Werth/Myers/Manny trade would be bad from the Red Sox point of view, seeing as how they JUST MADE the “1st Deal” as I described it above. Now, from the Phillies point of view, I never said they’d be paying 9MM. Please learn to read. The Sox would in effect have saved 9MM, because that is what the Marlins required to take Manny.

    Why would the Phillies do the trade? Because Manny > Werth by a large margin. Having Manny gives them the best offense in baseball. Having Manny gives them a legitimate shot at a deep playoff run, rather than the hope that they can hold on to the division down the stretch. Let’s say the Phils agreed to give the Sox half of Myers’ salary next year (Manny vs. Myers this year is already to the Sox advantage from a salary-dump perspective). That’s $6MM, plus the additional amount owed to Manny above what’s owed to Myers (let’s be generous and call it $2MM, for $8MM total cash coughed up by the Phils). Does it make sense to pay $8MM to put the best offense in baseball on the field for the stretch run? YES.

    You. Are. A. Complete. Fucking. Idiot. Stop posting, you’re embarassing yourself.

  • Posts: 0 Jamie

    You’d be surprised at how many “excellent” trades have been made over the years with big names after the non-waiver deadline. The new deadline now is August 31 for waiver trades. I can think of several trades – David Cone, Jose Canseco, Jeff Kent, Jamie Moyer, etc were all traded through waiver trades in the past 10-15 years. And you can bash Moyer all you want, but the guy has 240 wins…there’s not many pitchers around with that many right now.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Know your waiver rules
    By Jayson Stark
    Updated: August 16, 2004
    Warning from the surgeon general: Trying to make sense of baseball’s waiver system can be hazardous to your mental health.

    There are all kinds of waivers for all different occasions. But essentially, here is how waiver deals can be made between Aug. 1 and the Aug. 31 deadline for setting potential playoff rosters:

    Virtually every player in the major leagues will be placed on waivers this month, whether a team intends to trade that player or not. If nothing else, the sheer volume of names can at least disguise players whom clubs do want to sneak through so they can be dealt.

    If a player isn’t claimed by any team in either league, he can be traded until the end of the month to anyone.

    If a player is claimed, but only by one team, the player can be traded only to the team that claims him.

    If a player is claimed by more than one team, the club with the worst record in that player’s league gets priority — and the player can be traded only to that team.

    If a player is claimed only by teams in the other league, the club with the worst record in the other league gets priority — and the player can be traded just to that team.

    If a deal can’t be worked out or the team doesn’t want to trade that player, he can be pulled back off waivers once in August. If he is placed on waivers again before September, he can’t be recalled a second time.

    Or, if a team is just hoping to dump a player’s salary, it can simply allow a team which claimed that player to have him for a small waiver fee. If that happens, the team that gets the player has to pay his entire salary. That’s how the Yankees were stuck with Jose Canseco and the Padres were stuck with Randy Myers in recent years: They claimed those players, thinking they were just blocking other teams from getting them. Instead, their old clubs said: “You claimed him. You got him.”

    In the past, many teams claimed players just to keep them from being traded to contenders with a better record. This year, that isn’t expected to happen as often, because most teams can’t afford to get stuck with a big contract if they’re awarded a player they really didn’t want.

  • Posts: 0 Jamie

    Randy Myers was another one that was a snafu. The Blue Jays wanted to trade him, but the Padres snapped him up preventing him from going to a competitor. He sucked for them, and in the end, the Pads were on the hook for the rest of his salary. Manny was waivered in 2003 but nobody took him because they were scared of his salary at the time. Tony Batista was waivered by Toronto in 2001, but the Orioles worked out a deal and he ended up being very productive for them. So, no, Geoff, they’re not all bums that are available through waivers.

  • Posts: 0 Jamie

    Oh, I forgot to mention that another little trick is to do a trade for a “player to be named later.” That helps get around waiver issues as well.

  • Posts: 0 Schoolyard


  • Posts: 0 Kennedy

    Pete, why would the Red Sox do that trade when they could get Bay for Manny, a garbage reliever, and a corner outfielder without major league power. So they could get a 6m dollar Brett Myers. Want the best evidence your trade was retarded. It never happened.

  • Posts: 0 Pete

    Oh, you’ve got me there. Because every trade that happens is a win/win brilliant move for both teams. Like that sweet haul we got for Curt Schilling back in the day. Clearly not a “retarded” trade….because it HAPPENED!!

    Find a different straw to grasp jackass

  • Posts: 0 Pete

    Oh yeah, that Brandon Moss sure sucks. .295/.337/.462 in limited action this year. And he’s 24. Don’t want that on my team – no way! As for Hansen, his stats are unimpressive now, but he’s young with raw ability. No huge loss, I suppose, but more than they’d have given up to get Werth and Myers.

    But let’s really break your logic down. Just take Myers out of the trade. Then you have Manny for Werth even up. If Werth = Bay, then the Sox make out better with us than with the LA/Pitt three-way, because they keep Moss and Hansen.

  • Posts: 0 Schoolyard


  • Posts: 0 Kennedy

    You’re forgetting the fact that Jason Bay is a name, whereas Jayson Werth is not. Thats what made this trade acceptable to the Red Sox. Just because hes marginally better Werth, I didn’t think it would be a good idea for the Phils to ship prospects for him. You are also assuming that the Red Sox FO is as bad as the Phils, but I think all the evidence would show that they are actually a pretty competent bunch. You are dreaming if you think the Sox would do Manny for Werth straight up. Moss is heavily overrated, and Hansen will never be anything but a bottom of the bullpen reliever, his WHIP is awful. I don’t really see Moss as an everyday outfielder. He has never really shown power that I would project him into a guy who will hit more than 10 homers a season, or have good enough discipline to be a great OBP guy. Not a terrible prospect, but nothing the Red Sox don’t have plenty of.

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