Despite Best Efforts, Phils Fall Short
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Tue, August 12, 2008 09:06 AM | Comments: 112
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Kyle Kendrick didn’t quite give the Phillies the best chance to win Monday night. They couldn’t do it, falling short of the Dodgers, 8-6.
Kendrick only went 3.1 innings. He allowed seven runs off nine hits, most of them right down the pipe. Many argued about a very small strike zone for Kendrick (and a much larger for Derek Lowe), making it impossible for Kendrick to throw his strikes. But he just didn’t have it. You had two sinkerball pitchers up there, and one was effective.
The Phils manufactured three runs off Lowe. Two were RBI groundouts by Ryan Howard. To me, that’s not really good. You need big production from Howard, especially when down a few. Anyway, Howard is now at 100 RBI on the season — in jest, I don’t know if I can really recall 60 of them.
They made it interesting late, with Geoff Jenkins singling and Jimmy Rollins stroking an RBI triple in the seventh. In the ninth, with big Jonathan Broxton trying to shut the Phils down, the good guys loaded the bases for Chase Utley. He delivered with a two-rbi black-hole single. Howard was next, and had a chance to at least tie the game, but grounded out to second base. See, there the RBI groundout didn’t work.
The bullpen did a nice job keeping it close, with Les Walrond getting out of trouble and going 2.2 strong. Clay Condrey gave up a run in his two of work.
The loss keeps the Phils ahead by two over the Mets. Shame — they could’ve really stretched it out with the win. But when you don’t get good starting pitching, it makes it very hard to do much else.
Associated Press photo
Posts: 0 Mike
Thats it for Kendrick…send him to the Iron Pigs…bring up Happ.
Posted: 09:16 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Seriuosly?
last 10 starts:
BOS 3IP 6R
OAK 8IP 0R
ATL 6IP 3R
NYM 6IP 1R
ARI 6.1IP 4R
FLA 4.1IP 7R
ATL 6IP 1R
WSH 6.2IP 2R
FLA 6IP 0R
LAD 3.1 IP 7R
10-7 5.01 ERA
could he be better? absolutely. the two 7 run games and the 6 run game are unacceptable and are the reasons why his ERA is still high.
If youre going to replace someone, replace brett myers and make him the setupman. they need bullpen help, still, anyway. Kendrick usually gives up less than 4 runs. since hes your 5th starter, tahts really not that bad.
you guys know how hard i am on pitching, but i just dont think hes really that much of a problem, if hes a problem at all.
Posted: 09:27 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 ped
i don’t agree with you on that one, Mike. He is one of our wins leaders.
Posted: 09:28 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 AP
As a resident of Pasadena, CA (originally from Philly for the first 20 years of my life) – the outside world considers me living in Los Angeles..just like the outside world thinks Anaheim is a section of LA.
Due to those ridiculous facts (Pasadena is only 5 minutes from LA but a world of difference) – I apologize for the lameness and fucktardity of Dodger fans.
LA fans are the worst sports fans in the world. It could be a no-hitter in the 7th inning for their precious Dodgers and you’ll see fans walking out of the game so they can “beat traffic”. Don’t even get me started on the parking lot at Dodgers stadium. If you want a spray-painted Virgin Mary t-shirt, this is the place to go.
Also, pssssssssssssst to most of the Dodgers Mexican fan base – Manny Ramirez? He’s not Mexican. Sorry to burst your bubble.
Let’s hope the Phillies come back tonight…Hamels vs Kershaw is gonna be very different than Kendrick vs. Lowe.
Go Fightin’s.
- AP
http://www.proctorformayor.com
Posted: 09:28 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Dennis
I agree with Mike. Kendrick is very hard to watch, all he does is flirt with danger all game. You can’t pitch like that, eventually it will bite you in the ass. He has been just ok, living on very good run support for the most part. In my opinion he has been way overrated by the media and the fans in this town.
Posted: 09:36 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
hes a 5th starter. for a 5th starter, hes not that bad. if anyone needs to pitck it up, its darling cole hamels. if the offense isnt scoring any runs for you, and youre the ace, then done give up any runs.
go look at all of the other “5th starters” in the NL, hse probably better than a lot of them.
What about the 20 games that the offense has cost them this year when Kendrick, moyer, hamels, blanton, even eaton, myers have all pitched well only to get NO run support. theyve been SHUTOUT 6 TIMES AT HOME!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 09:42 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Kendricks one of the better number 5 men in the game and you can’t judge him on ERA like you can’t Moyer or a guy like Tim Wakefield. He’s hittable and at times you’ll have to throw in your middle relef early, but when he’s on he’ll grind out innings and when you consider most teams struggle so badly with there 5 spot the Phils are in very good shape, Last night wasn’t a bad game, he team played hard and they made the Dodger pay to take the win which is a massive contrast to the Florida series.
As for the bullpen come on! Lidge, Romero, Madson and Durbin are all pitching very well and Condrey is having what could be a breakout year. Eyre could contribute and a ‘premier’ set-up man just reduces the role of the trio of set-up men that are pitching effectively. Myers would not be a great addition to the bullpen with the time it would take for him to acclimatise himself plus the hole left in the rotation. Maybe Kendrick isn’t the answer long-term but he’s pitched well enough to hold his spot and have to say I hate it that the next bad start Myers makes will call for his immediately demotion to the bullpen. Happ keeps getting mentioned but he doesn’t have the stuff to be a front-line pitcher and the back of our rotation’s set very nicely, teams don’t like going up against well prepared starters like Moyer and Kendrick and that’s what you want from your back-end.
Posted: 10:03 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike
I wasn’t serious when I sent Kendrick should be sent to the Iron Pigs.. I was making a joke b/c we alread sent 2 starters down.
I think Kendrick is painful to watch and I would like to see Happ in the rotation. He’s been pitching well.
I imagine Happ will be up shortly once Hamels gets his annual DL assignment
Posted: 10:15 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
The only reason Kendrick should be sent down is to work on an out pitch. When he gets ahead of a hitter he can’t strike them out. A lot of people get hits on him with an 0-2 count. Maybe if he had an out pitch we wouldn’t be worrying about it.
Posted: 10:28 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Dennis
How can anyone sit here and trash Cole Hamels? I’m sorry Geoff but we don’t act like he is our 5th starter. All I hear is he is the number 3 on the team. Bottom line, I am looking at his ERA and his his is at 5, thats Adam Eaton numbers.
Posted: 10:29 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Paul
Kendrick was really up in the zone last night, and he paid for it. When he keeps his pitches down, he can be very effective.
Posted: 10:35 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
I agree Dennis. I’m sick of the Hamels bashing too.
Posted: 10:35 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
right but hes the 5th starter, obviously hes not a 3. he MIGHT be at some point in his career if he devlops more. hes a 5.
dude, youre a douchebag. adam eaton is HORRIBLE.
most teams go through a new 5th starter every week. the fact that kendrick, once a 4, now a 5 because of blanton, is a 5 now, is a sign that the rotation has improved and stabilized somewhat.
hes going to get pounded sometimes.
its a much better idea to worry about the offense than to worry about games like last night. the offense shouldnt have WASTED all those other good performances, now should they?
Posted: 10:38 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
His ERA is a 5 because he has such a short leash, Kendrick does need to develop an out pitch in the off-season but you take him off the roster now and he’s done for the year. Happ will get another shot somewhere down the stretch but I can’t see his upside over Kendrick, he was decent in his starts but Kendrick’s been decent with some very good performances for 2 years.
Posted: 10:40 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Happ has better stuff than Kendrick. It really is just as simple as that.
Posted: 10:45 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
hamels is not an ace YET, get over it.
Posted: 10:45 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
I agree with that Geoff. He’s a 1.5, but I’m still sick of everyone bashing him.
Posted: 10:45 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
Anyone against adding Bonds to this team (on the phils terms) if there is not this gm agreement to keep him out of the league. I don’t care if he is left handed or not he hits anyone and gets on base all the time something the phils lack.
Posted: 10:47 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
until hamels is reayd to be the man, you need someone like a ben sheets out there. thats how this works. you usually see that with a lot of good rotations. an ace is someone in their PRIME who goes out there and holds it down and gets knoecked around once or twice all year. hamels has been knocked around way too much already.
Posted: 10:48 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
im pretty sure theyve agreed to keep him out of the league. just like they agreed to NOT gie a-rod a better contract and force him to come crawling back to the yankees begging to take him back.
Posted: 10:49 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
by the way, phil, i started reading the watchmen. quality piece of work there.
Posted: 10:50 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Hamels is as much of an ace as a guy like Beckett/Verlander/Kazmir/Zambrano and his win total would reflect ace numbers if the run support had been better. When an ace’s win totals are down suddenly he’s a soft ace then not quite an ace at under .500, it’s very contradictory. The win totals not everything but it seems to massively influence who the aces are.
Posted: 10:50 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 christopher
dennis what in the world are you talking about? he’s hyped by the fans and the media? i’ll admit i’ve been living outside of philly for much of this season so i guess i’ve missed a bunch of daily news covers with kendrick’s face plastered on them? kendrick gets treated like what he is by the fans and the media- a decent young pitcher who has done a good job in his 2 seasons with the team so far. he is 20-10 as a phillie so far. i’m sorry, but you can’t credit that all to run support.
he does need another pitch, and has been working on his changeup all year. in fact he was studying webb’s when they were playing arizona to try to emulate it. i didn’t notice him throwing it much at all yesterday, but when he has thrown it lately it’s been much improved. not an out pitch, which i’m not sure he’ll ever develop (he’s just not a strikeout pitcher), but something that could be effective to get batters off his sinker.
it was a rough game for him but he’ll bounce back. the commentators were saying that it looked like the dodgers were figuring out ways to read ruiz’s signs too and tip off the batters, which wouldn’t surprise me with how back kendrick got rocked. the good news was we had broxton running hagard and i’m not sure if we’ll see him again at least until the last game of this series. if the phils can at least split this one i’ll be happy, if they could win it i’ll be thrilled. the dodgers are a good team despite only having a 500 record.
has happ had any starts in the minors since being sent down? if so how’d he do?
Posted: 10:54 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Cole is as good as Sheets. Not to be rude here but a lot of you guys have unrealistic expectation of where this teams payroll should be and who should be on it. Sure we need a frontline compliment to Cole but stop trashing what we have, Brett Myers may regain his status, CC might be a frontline pitcher… We do not have a good record in the FA market and someone’s going to overpay for a guy like Sheets and it shouldn’t be us.
Posted: 10:55 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Rick
I only saw the 2nd and top of the 3rd innings last night before crashing.
I did notice that Lowe was getting a more generous strike zone. The Jayson Werth K in the 2nd was a perfect example of that. The called third strike was at least 2-3 inches outside.
Posted: 10:58 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
From yesterday’s conversation, i think it was wheels but they talked for a good bit about how moyer works with kendrick and the other pitchers. He was at the top of the dugout talking to charlie when he went on his spiel
Posted: 10:58 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Rick
Also, I wouldn’t be surprised to learn that Kendrick was tipping his pitches too. I noticed something he was doing. If I pick up something, you can sure as hell count on opposing hitters picking it up.
Happ started either yesterday or the day before. Someone posted the numbers in another blog article yesterday.
Posted: 11:03 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Rick
# nate Says:
August 11th, 2008 at 8:04 am
happ watch: 6 IP, 0 ER, 2 hits allowed, 10ks
Posted: 11:05 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike
Hamels has the 4th best WHIP in all of baseball. 1.07
Not bad company
1 Justin Duchscherer 0.99
2 Dan Haren 1.03
3 Roy Halladay 1.05
4 Cole Hamels 1.07
5 Cliff Lee CLE 1.08
Posted: 11:06 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I think someone like sheets, if healthy would be ideal for this team. to protect hamels in the rotation until head ready to be the man. then you can turn around and trade brett myers for other assets because behind hamels you have blanton kendrick moyer happ carrasco to fill 3 spots…then all of a sudden you have a pretty deep rotation situation.
Posted: 11:11 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
unrealistic expectations? 39 sellouts this year. 13 consecutive sellouts. theyre raking money in down there…time to invest it back into the team and reward the fans for their devotion. thats PROPER protocol.
Posted: 11:12 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Dennis
Geoff, I’m a douchebag? Typical fan were your agrument is trash so you have to come at me with that garbage. You’re a typical “everything I say is right and what you say is wrong fan.” No point in agruing with you cause you just don’t get it.
Posted: 11:19 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
really dennis? why dont you stop being lazy and look at the rest of the 5th starters in baseball…some real garbage.
Posted: 11:25 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Here is the line on Carrasco so far at AAA
2 starts, 12.2 Innings Pitched. 5 Runs, 0 Earned Runs
14 hits, 14 Ks, 2 BB
Opponents hitting .259 off him.. so a 0.00 ERA, 1.26 WHIP
I don’t think we see him anytime soon with him giving up a hit per inning at AAA.. They’ll want to see that come down before they move Kendrick out, who has a WHIP of 1.54!! Like i’ve said before, Kendrick’s inconsistency is what bothers me the most.. all pitchers get rocked from time to time, but his stats are a like a wave, up-even-down-even-up-even-down (you know what i mean)
Posted: 11:27 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Why does everyone get in cyber-fights the day after we lose.. EVERYTIME… and its always Geoff and somebody
Posted: 11:27 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Rick
Don M. – You’re never a culprit either huh? ;-) Oh wait, it’s usually you arguing with Geoff!
Hamels has to get a W tonight! That loss last night (after a L by both the M&Ms) hurt. Tonight has to be better!
Posted: 11:34 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Bruce
Reality check:
Phillies management regards Hamels as their no 1 pitcher in rotation and therefore entitled as “ace” regardless of comparisons (by “fans”) to other teams’ ace. And Hamel’s stats are not too shabby for an “ace”. Now if only he can get run support….
I read an interesting perspective by Dodger’s Jeff Kent regarding Howard and team’s manufacturing runs:
“He’s a great hitter and he can drive in runs—and he’s still a pup, too,” Kent said. “But if he’s going to roll it over to the right side, sure, you play as many guys over there as you can. But they do such a great job of manufacturing runs, you can hit .240 and still drive in 100. That’s telling you that their team is operating well.”
Of course, it helps that Howard is the best clutch hitter on the team with RISP.
Posted: 11:38 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Its usually me and Geoff because Geoff is trying to get everyone to jump off the bridge with him..
99% of the time when I disagree with anyone on here, its because they are bashing something about this team, insteaf of enjoying the fact that we’re in 1st place and 10-games over .500….
we scored 6 runs last night, and our offense is showing signs of coming back around.. but we’re instead talking about Kendrick and how the team doesn’t spend enough money and stuff
Posted: 11:38 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I HATE JEFF KENT… one of the biggest crybabies in baseball… constantly fights with teammates and thinks he’s the man
Posted: 11:39 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Dennis
GEOFF! HE’S NOT OUR FIFTH STARTER! He may be a 5th starter in this league but on this team he is considered our number 3!
Posted: 11:48 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Kennedy
Kendrick is such a difficult case, they win a lot of his starts, and it seems foolish to mess with a good thing. On the other hand, Happ and Benson are both pitching well in AAA. Benson really seems to have his control back, issuing very few walks in his last few starts. Happ just had a nice start, despite all the inactivity in the majors. At least we are definitely solid if we have any injuries on the rotation.
Posted: 11:54 AM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Dennis who is our #2, #4, and #5 then? Kendrick is indeed our 5th starter. Going into season he was our #4.
Myers
Hamels
Moyer
Kendrick
Eaton
Then in the beginning Kendrick was pitching poorly and Eaton was pitching adequate and they bumped him back to #5. Right now our rotation is this.
Hamels
Blanton
Myers
Moyer
Kendrick
Posted: 12:02 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
The website has it listed as Hamels, Blanton, Moyer, Kendrick, Myers … but two weeks ago, they didn’t even have Myers listed on there.
And now, it sets up as:
Hamels
Blanton
Myers
Moyer
Kendrick
if you follow the order their acutal starts go..
Posted: 12:06 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Agreed Don M. In all reality Myers is our #2. If he continues to pitch the way he has in his last 3 outings he’s definitely our #2 and that would be a good #2 at that. I still say send Kendrick down to work on an out pitch. In that case bring up Happ who has been lights out in AAA. Let him come up here and be lights out.
Posted: 12:10 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Kennedy
I would bet if they went into a playoff series right now, they would throw Hamels, Myers, and then Blanton or Moyer. Who really cares who is officially the 3rd or 5th starter, Kendrick would probably never be called upon to pitch in a playoff game.
Posted: 12:14 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 KM
I see that a lot of you people are upset with Kendrick. Well, last night he didn’t pitch his finest game against an anemic offense, but he is the 5th starter, and has more good days than bad.
I agree with what geoff said a while ago, Cole needs to pick it up, because he is the ace. And the offense needs to do something. I am glad they manufactured a few runs last night, but they are fundamentally flawed, and way too dependent on the longball. They need an infusion of some young talent with some speed to shake up the lineup. Wouldn’t mind seeing Golson come up in September. He has had his injury problems, but he is having a decent season in AA, and deserves a callup before a stiff like cervenak.
Speaking of cervanek, what is the Phillies deal with these 30+ year old rookies? I’d rather have the younger guys up here where they can learn the ropes in a backup role then guys like AAA trash, cervanek and walron stinking it up in their limited roles.
Posted: 12:15 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
KM, it’s better to let the kids continue to play and get better down there then to come up here and ride the bench. They’ll get rusty doing that.
Posted: 12:18 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Cole was pretty damn good in his last outing… EVERY pitcher in baseball has a few bad outings.. Cole had two in a row, but looked good against the Marlins last week, we just didn’t hit for him (as usual).. he should have about 15 wins right now, but again with Kendrick having more WINS that Hamels, it shows you how thats not an accurate way to judge pitchers
Posted: 12:22 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Matt
KM – Golson is a strikeout machine with limited power. He’s Reggie Taylor all over again.
Posted: 12:24 PM on August 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Rick
Yeah it seems like an area we were so weak in past has become a place where we have some depth finally. Although, many of us still aren’t sold that we have a solid 1-2 punch every 5th day.
Lets give Brett a start against a strengthened Dodgers lineup to see where he really stands.
He did well against a tough Cardinals lineup granted Ankiel did not start. Even without Ankiel in the lineup though, Brett still faced Pujols and Ludwick (who are hands-down the two best Cardinals hitters IMO) multiple times. Ludwick will win the NL ROY in a landslide. I think even if he got hurt right now he would win it.
Dennis – Don’t take this as an attack in any way, but I don’t think most people would agree that Kendrick is our #3. I think the Phillies and most people on here believe he is the #5. Blanton right now is the #2 or #3 and Myers is the other. Moyer is #4 just because he’s going to give you a consistent start 8-9 times out of every 10. That said, “The Kid” does know how to get himself out of trouble and that is a true talent. He’s level-headed and doesn’t typically allow himself to be his own worst enemy mentally (i.e. – Myers).
Posted: 12:26 PM on August 12, 2008