Phillies Nation

You guys remember when he had 2 bad outings in a row against the Marlins and the Astros and then bounced back from them and pitched like 10 solid outings in a row? Maybe that’ll happen again.

Lohse pitched 5 and 1/3 with 3 ER. The only way difference between his ‘good’ start and Hamels’ bad one is he got lifted before he could give up more.

Fred, that’s a little absurd. Hamels is just a kid. He’s going to go through rough patches. His stuff was not on at all last night. He’ll bounce back. I don’t think he’s injured though. He wouldn’t pitch injured.

So pitching to an ERA of 5 or 6 is pitching well as long as you’re not a #1? If so, Eaton’s looking good.

scot – Myers?

Phil – I thought some about your comment that Cole wouldn’t pitch hurt. You know, you’re probably right. It seems like anytime Cole has been hurt in the past, he’s been honest with Charlie about it.

I believe Eskin said that his source was scouts? That could mean nothing. I mean scouts could pick up a mechanics change issue that might lead them to think that. This change could also be the problem in the last two starts.

I don’t understand why the Phillies pitchers have so many mechanics issues. I mean hasn’t Dubee been doing this for a long time? I would think he’d pick up on these things immediately. Especially since he’s around these guys day-in and day-out.

I think if the Phils don’t make the playoffs this year, Dubee and Milt could be the ones who take the fall for it.

Rick, I just have much higher expectations of Cole than Myers. He’s the guy who before the season was telling everyone who’d listen how he wants to win the Cy Young, throw a no hitter, win twenty games, and he’s nowhere near that level right now. Dude has given up more than 5 runs in 5 starts if I remember correctly. He just hasn’t been ace material.

Myers is a headcase, but eveyone knew that coming into the season. Hamels is awful.

Hamels has lost games 1-0, 3-2, and 2-0. Win those games and he’s 12-4. That doesn’t include 4 NDs where he went 7 IP 0 ER, 8 IP 2 ER, 7 IP 2 ER, 8 IP 2 ER.

scot you’re awful. Myers was the opening day starter and he may be one bad start away from the bullpen. Hamels has looked shaky in a few starts but dominant in others.

I find the blind defense of Hamels in here so interesting, for real. I mean when Howard was leading the league in RBI’s people were still jumping all over him. But he’s batting .230. He’ll have 200 k’s!!! He’s an albatross.

Meanwhile, Hamels can consistently give up homeruns in big games against good teams to give up the lead, or tie a game, and he’s never to blame. It can’t possibly be Hamels fault the ball left his hand, hit the bat and went over the fence. It’s the fault of our offense!!!

It’s a really intersting juxtaposition.

15 of Carlos Ruiz’s GIDP’s weren’t his fault, either. It’s just really good pitching. Chooch is blameless.

86 of Howard’s K’s. Spotty umpiring. The umpiring union doesn’t pay for Lasik.

The double standard here is hilarious to me.

Man, there is no middle ground for you is there Phil. You live in an all or nothing world. Never said anything about him being a #5 either.

Being as though I never said Hamels sucks, I wouldn’t say that Santana sucks either. Like the case with Hamels, if I were a Met fan I’d say he’s been a bit of a dissappointment, and I know several Mets fans up here who agree with me. Bunch of homers, those guys!!!!!

thats why they needed cc sabathia, rich harden, aj burnett, roy halladay, etc and when they failed to get one they assed out and went with joe. well, joe better discover a whole new level for them today and in the weeks to come, because if myers falters then you plug happ in, but what happens if hamels is injured and needs 2 weeks off? waiver-trade slop, get ready for it. jarrod washburn, bronson arroyo, ugh.

No, yo uhaven’t. I don’t think Hamels is awful.

Scroll up. You said Hamels is awful.

Well look at that, I did. My mistake. I’ll rephrase that as a collassal disappointment, as I have been saying for the past 2 weeks in games that matter. And then he just keeps going out and proving me right like he did last night.

You may think I wasn’t right, but I did predict the outcome and Hamels giving up the home runs. That’s just part of the expertise that I bring.

i personally feel that hamels will be complete when he throws more curves and develops another pitch. he is a little predictable and good hitters, if theyre not behind in the counts, wont swing at the changeup. theyll force him to spot the fastball on the corners. his fastball is the pitch that gets jacked the most. i wonder what his slider looks like and if he has ever tried to throw one. santana has a really good slider and i think that hamels would benefit form learning one in the offseason just as kendrick would complete himself with an improved changeup.

i still think they need to replace rich dubee or the strength coach. i think ive found enough recent evidence that when starters come here under their guidance their velocity drops. you can tell lidge doesnt listen to dubee at all because he doesnt need to be coached. closers get annoyed when coaches try to do that anyway. you think anyone EVER talks to papelbon out there? that guy is a wild-eyes flamethrowing lunatic. his splitter is as good or better than rich hardens.

Phil, it isn’t about the number of home runs you give up as much as it is when you give them up. Game tying and lead giving home runs are a whole different story than giving up a solo blast when having a 3 or 4-1 lead.

I’m on Phil’s side here. Hamels is our No. 1, and he is and will continue to be a No. 1. Phil’s analysis of his losses/no decisions is, imho, accurate (i.e. not his fault).

The problem right now with Hamels is that he is not following through on his pitches. Watch (if you have a DVR or something) Friday night’s game. His left hand at the end of his delivery is at his hip. It SHOULD be down around his knee (or even ankle). When he finishes at his hip, he’s also releasing higher in the delivery, and his pitches are coming in high. And we all know that high, hanging pitches will get salamied by good hitters.

He’s prone to this even in his good starts (that’s why Chooch adopted the Tony Pena-style squat, to get him to try to keep it down).

He’s not hurt, and he is a Hall-of-Fame-potential pitcher. I’m not a pitching coach, but if he concentrates on his follow-through in his delivery, he should be able to keep the ball down more. This will eliminate the dingers and make any slider/change-up pitches far more effective.

Just my couple of cents.