Little Offense, Lowly Madson Foil Phils’ Sweep
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Fri, August 22, 2008 09:07 AM | Comments: 95
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With nobody out in the eighth inning, Jayson Werth stood on third base and Chase Utley led off first. Ryan Howard stepped to the plate and struck out. Then within seconds, Pat Burell erased himself and Utley from the scorecard, ending the inning.
That’s the story of the year, right there, clear as day, and the crucial misfire in a 4-3 loss to the Nationals. It snapped the Nats’ 13-game losing streak, dropped the Phillies into a 2.5-game hole in the NL East and put a really long sigh at the beginning of a really tough stretch.
Earlier in the series we grazed by the offense’s deficiencies because, hey, they were winning. This time you can’t do it. Getting only three runs off Nationals pitching via a Chase Utley single, a Greg Dobbs groundout and a Carlos Ruiz home run, they came up lame late when they really needed it. Howard is the major culprit, going 0-or-4 with three strikeouts. Jimmy Rollins also had a bad game, going 0-for-4. (In the ninth, they had Shane Victorino on second with no outs, and of course, couldn’t score him.)
Ryan Madson blew the save with a four-hit barrage in the eighth, netting two Washington runs. It seems once he pulls together a string of great performances, he falls hard with a bad one. Maybe it was foreseeable, but you can’t blame putting him into the game in the eighth.
On the good news front, Jamie Moyer continued to lower his ERA with a fine performance. He gave up just two earned runs on five hits while walking three. His ERA is now 3.54.
It’s a shame the bullpen couldn’t hold it, but you have to think the Phils can score more runs against the Nationals. Then again, it’s the story of the year – this offense really isn’t that good.
Associated Press photo
Posts: 0 Geoff
What were all of you saying the beginning of the year? “our offense is so good it doesnt matter if we get more pitching or not.”
i said: “you cant rely on that all year, what if its not there?”
noone knew theyd be this bad, but thats what happens when you use one thing as a crutch for too long.
Posted: 09:16 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 P. Pig
That’s all folks!
Posted: 09:24 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Bear Mike
OK, the Phillies are extremely frustrating to watch anymore. However, Jamie is always a treat to watch. Precision and finess is his recipe for success this year. Kudos to “The Old Man on the Hill”! (sounds like a book he could write).
Cholly needs to start managing this team! Start playing base to base offense!Example: Bot 8th Ryan “I can’t hit a Fn’ fastball in the heart of the plate” Howard at the plate. No outs, Werth on second, Utley on first. Dude, I’m calling a double steal. Worse case Werth gets banged at third base leaving Utley at second with one out. Or how about a really risky call and bunt Howard in that situation? Jesus, do something instead of sitting back and let our base runners rot on the bases. Shake up the opposing defense by keeping them on pins and needles! Cholly needs to really start playing aggressive baseball because his approach is clearly not working!
I would shake up the line-up for a few games:
* Rollins needs to move way down in the line-up (WTF is up with him????)
* Although I really like him in the six hole, Vic goes to lead off (Flat-out awesome this year – all heart & hustle!)
* Burrell to clean-up and “Howard The K” to the 5 hole to K there.
Go Phillies!!!!!!
Posted: 09:29 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
victorino has been their only consistent threat all year on the basepads.
Posted: 09:31 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 John Cena
Batisia was 3 seconds better then me # DAM SECONDS BETTER THEN ME …. but that was but that was on SUnday the 17th. That will not happen again as the chain gain leader will win the belt back at unforgiven for my fans here in Philly. YOU CANT SEE ME!!!
Posted: 09:31 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Mark
Phillies pitching has been a revelation; starting, relieving and of course closing. With the way the offense has collapsed since mid-June, anything less form the pitching and the Phillies would be pushing up daisies like Pittsburgh or Washington, not contending for the Division.
Last night was another p— poor offensive performance. Charlie, do something, wake them up, impose fines, do something!
Posted: 09:32 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Paul
You said it perfectly. That is really poor when you can’t get clutch and score a runner from 3rd with less than 2 outs. That is something you have to do to be a contending club.
Bummer too, the pitching as a whole has been solid. But you just can’t trust the hitting to get it done right now.
Heck, I got worried when the Phils fell behind 1-0. And that tells you something…
Posted: 09:33 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
John Cena is right on lol
Posted: 09:33 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 John Cena
Your time is up my time is now you cant see me my time is now
Posted: 09:34 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 John Cena
Who here wants tp have a rap battle?
Posted: 09:34 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
they cant see the ball right, i know that. maybe they need contact lenses, all of them.
Posted: 09:36 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski
What in the good Lord’s name is going on with this team? Their offense is looking like it did when Bowa was managing. I mean, they are tightening up in key situations like they did before Manuel became the manager. And this team is way better and their pitching has been tremendous this year. Mark said it best, our pitching is what is keeping us afloat.
Injuries aren’t an exuse but Utley has looked awful since April, Rollins definitely is not 100% and his comments are the reason our hitters are tightening up. Howard is so impatient- I mean he would be hitting .360 if he could excerise some plate discipline.
Outside of the lack of hitting, the other problem I have with last night is using Madson in the set up role. This guy has proved time and time again he does not have the head to pitch in key situations. He is a 6th or 7th inning guy, not a set up guy, not a closer and not a starter. You put Madson in the game, especially at home, when you are up by at least 3 runs or mop up duty. I mean Chad Durbin has proven all year he can set up and he should be the 8th inning guy along with Romero. Madson, like Gavin Floyd will never succeed here because they don’t have the head or heart to perform in Philly.
These next 23 games will determine where we are. And I praised the Phils for not giving in to Rowand’s demand of a fourth or fifth year, but I am not eating crow on that one too. His leadership is not replaceable.
Posted: 09:43 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Is Ryan Howard still alive? I usually just see Burrell walk up after Utley and an extra out is magically on the scoreboard. Thank god that Howard is getting it done on defense.. waittttttttt
Posted: 09:45 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
hahah. thats so true. it happens with rollins too. when i estimate the commericials are over i flip back to the channel and theres ALREADY one out.
Posted: 09:46 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
how do they not blast hanrahan too? that guy just hurls junk in the general direction of the plate. half the time it doesnt get there. except with this team.
Posted: 09:48 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Come on don’t be too hard on Madson here, as I said weeks ago unless the offense starts producing or at the very least hitting consistently every poor pitching performance would be magnafied… And it has.
I hate to say it because he’s such a nice figurehead but Charlie’s not the guy, he’s back where he was at in Cleveland not being able to coax out of his team that extra level needed to compete for a championship. I’m not one of those who believe we have a right to win every year but I hate to see this team piss away their opportunity to compete at the top because they clearly won’t commit off the field to what it takes to take your game to that added level on the field.
Posted: 09:48 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 ped
hopefully tonight’s lineup will have Shane leading off with Rollins batting 7th. In fact, I would sit j-roll for a game. Maybe switch up ryan and pat in the order.
Does anyone else have zero confidence in kendrick all of sudden?
Posted: 09:49 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
This team has no excuses for the way its been playing. I hate Milt Thompson right now if it is him to blame for the hitting but I think its the players honestly, all about themselves at the plate,
“let me swing for the fences all the time so I can bask in the glory of these fans cheering me, If I dont get a hit, it doesnt matter because I’m an all star…. YEAHHHHHHHH” – The approach of Ryan Howard
Posted: 09:50 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Does anyone else have zero confidence in kendrick all of sudden?
I have confidence in him, hes pretty good until his recent three starts.
Posted: 09:52 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
i would force j-roll to watch eric bruntlett strike out and commit errors in his place for two or three games, especially if it costs them the game and places in teh standings. something HAS to get through to him eventually.
Posted: 09:52 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Past success means abso-fucking-lutely nothing in a playoff race like this and these players winning MVPs was the worst thing to happen to them because they think they have done enough to do whatever the fuck they want. Interesting arbitration coming up for Howard.
Posted: 09:54 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Geoff, or Rollins would be like “see, a half ass me is better than him trying” and still continue to get out and pretend to be frustrated by blowing bubbles with his gum and shake his head like the ump swung and missed for him.
Posted: 09:56 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
exactly, they both win MVP awards and then act like its a real accomplishment. mvp awards are like two or three levels above being named to the all star team. the only thing that really matters is long term production over your career, and of course, championships. and hall of fame of course but those two will only see the hall of fame as tourists at this rate.
Posted: 10:02 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
First of all… its beat to come on here and see that John Cena is now also posting under “Don M”… and using the phrase “lol”..
2nd… It wasn’t too long ago that people were suggesting that Victorino be traded and stuff… Its clear that Victorino is now the spark-plug that Rollins was last year, so he needs to bat at the top in order to get that one-extra at bat.
Last night’s comments had a certain frequent poster. calling for the Phillies to get rid of Ryan Madson.. which is a joke cause Madson has been solid all year..
AND.. I guess we don’t want Moyer to retire now because he would make a good coach?
AND number 2.. Hanrahan was hitting 97mph on the gun, with a nasty slider in the dirt.. throwing hard, I thought that was what you looked for in a pitcher???
Posted: 10:11 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
it is. but it was in the dirt. dont swing at it…
Posted: 10:15 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Joe
I am working from a small sample here, but in my 15 years as a Phillies fan (moved here in ’93), I have never attended a game like last night’s game where the stands are full and there is so much tension between the crowd and the players. Jimmy Rollins and Ryan Howard got treated with the boos and derision like Pat Burrell used to hear before every at bat in previous seasons. They looked (from my far away terrace seats) uncomfortable, and their play was sure tight and lousy.
I attended games in the mid-90s, in a Vet so empty they didn’t bother opening concessions above the 500 level. That was a different kind of “frontrunner” problem.
I guess Rollins identified a real problem at the same time that he exacerbated it.
Posted: 10:18 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Come on Lidge has made a career out of that nasty slider in the dirt. Hanrahan has been talked over very highly he’s not like Redding/Bergmann who’s exceeded expectations, he’s thought to be legit.
Posted: 10:19 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
ryan madson is trash.
Posted: 10:20 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Come on Geoff his ERA had been sub 3.50 for the last two years, he’s not an elite reliever and doesn’t have nasty stuff but he’s pretty good. Who would you prefer? Do you think we should have added Gagne or Cordero and then trade for Street and go after K-Rod this year…?
Posted: 10:24 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
You are trash.. you’ve wanted Moyer to retire, and Madson with a 3.38 ERA to be DFA’d ..
Try be happy for what you have instead of steadily calling for replacements..
Posted: 10:26 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Geoff wants All-Stars at every position. …every one except SS, he doesn’t like that All-Star, so he’d rather go with Jason Donald..
Posted: 10:27 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
manual and milt need to be taken behind the woodshed and wake up…what they put out there for a lineup has to change…
werth
utley
burrell
howard
vic
rollins
feliz
catcher
pitcher
werth will at least work the pitcher so i think he should lead off over vic let vic keep lighting it up down bottom
Posted: 10:30 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
no possible way they put their two best baserunners in the 6-7 spots.. I would be fine with Victorino leading off.. and trying Rollins down in the 6-hole.
In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Manuel tries that soon.. But they won’t move the entire lineup around at the same time
Posted: 10:31 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 christopher
madson is a very good piece to your bullpen, he’s just not a set up guy. i disagree with whoever said you put him in when you lead by at least 3 too, he’s fine in closer games than that, just not in the 8th inning. the defense is what lost them last night’s game. even though they didn’t give him an error on it, jroll should have had that play that lead to the nats tying it. if he isn’t going to contribute anything offensively, then he needs to be spectacular defensively. also utley’s god awful throw earlier cost them another run.
Posted: 10:32 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
ok chiefs, how about you use madson as a 6th/7th innings guy..hes not a setup man. they dont have a true setup man and they needed to get one at the deadline…oops…
Posted: 10:32 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Greg B
Why is it so outrageous to ask Howard to bunt in that situation? Wasn’t it Werth on 2nd and Utley on 1st? He drops a bunt and the 80% chance that he Ks, pops up, or GIDPs is gone. I mean, what are you hoping for? Werth is on second, so a fly out does no good.
I’m tired of these sluggers getting coddled and being “above” situational baseball. We’re down one run and Howard is incapable of a productive out. Not to mention he was 0-6 w/ 5Ks against Hanrahan. Make that an even half dozen, now. I usually let Charlie manage the game, but something needed to be done in that situation.
Posted: 10:36 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
id try batting victorino leadoff and batting rollins on the waiver-wire with all th eother trash.
Posted: 10:37 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
i will galdly and freely admit i was wrong about shane. he looked lost until charlie straightened him out beacuse HE LISTENED. now hes their best player.
Posted: 10:38 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
go get me ian kinsler and move him to shortstop.
Posted: 10:38 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Set up man at the deadline… Hmmm… Fuentes? Street? Mahay? Sherril? Marte? Only one was traded and the Yanks had to pull off a big deal to get him included. You can’t critisise a bullpen near the very best this year, the set-up tandems being used were as good as a solution as there was going to be.
Posted: 10:40 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
its not bad but another good, solid arm would really have made this bullpen insanely awesome.
phil…ive been reaidng the watchmen whenever i get a little time, and youre right man, wow. thats really better than a lot of standard books. its so deep and esoteric.
Posted: 10:42 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
He’s their best player right now… but he’s not their best player overall… you’ll call for him to be traded or something soon too, i’ll put money on it.
They should get A-rod and move him to catcher too, and get Brandon Webb and make him your 8th inning guy..
All this stuff stays in my head, like eventhough nobody thinks we have a good bullpen, everyone wanted them to trade guys from their bullpen for Pudge.. you can’t get everything you want… because to aquire those things, you need to give things up..
Posted: 10:43 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
im just a big fan of kinsler, i think that guys great and is only going to get better…untouchable obviously
Posted: 10:44 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Shane’s not our best player, he’s our most consistent. I’m not apose to a new FO trading either Rollins or Howard to make a statement to the clubhouse that no-one is above the team but it’s going to take a major deal with likely no trade partners.
Kinsler at short? Do you just make this stuff up for fun… Firstly how the hell we would get Kinsler? Come on propose a practical deal that doesn’t destroy the farm that the Rangers would take… While your at it do you want to propose a deal for Braun? Pujols? Why not future starts in Price or LaPorta?
Posted: 10:45 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
victorino? no, why? hes cheap even with arbitration and hes the ONLY guy who looks liek theyre trying out there. hes untouichable right now.
Posted: 10:45 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Eb
Why cant Cholly let Durbin pitch more then 1 inning??? I bullpen is gased
Posted: 10:45 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
dude, im half kidding with kinsler. relax. i just think that guys awesome. id give them jimmy for him and then reshuffle the infield abit. but itll never happen. theyd laugh if you offered them jimmy for ian kinsler.
Posted: 10:46 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
first it is 5th and 6th and werth and utley are not too shabby on the base paths and we concede howard will K so vic will basically be leading off with rollins batting 2nd…plus get them running in the bottom half of the lineup so GIDP cant do his thing and we can try and turn the lineup over more often…
p.s. if you can’t get on base (rollins .091) baserunning skills are non existent
Posted: 10:47 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Nicely said Don, you forgot Santana as the closer, trading and re-signing Holliday in left and for Mauer to play 3rd and McCann to go behind the plate.
Posted: 10:47 AM on August 22, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
exactly bull..something ive tried to explain before but don does not understand.
Posted: 10:52 AM on August 22, 2008