Mass Ineptitude: Offense Dies And Phils Lose
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Sat, August 09, 2008 12:23 AM | Comments: 79
Posts
The Phillies had many, many chances. Chances to score one run. But they hit into double plays, hit into weak outs, struck out, just plain came up empty. The Phillies were shut out again, 2-0. They haven’t scored in 23 innings.
Before thrashing this team’s ineptitude, let’s first give a huge hand to Joe Blanton. Kentucky Joe threw a one-hitter in seven innings, walking two and striking out seven. All four of his pitches were working. He spotted his fastball. He induced easy outs and got a few called strikeouts. Simply put, he was as dominant as he could’ve been.
And it’s sad. His great effort was wasted. As was Chad Durbin’s (1.1 IP, 0 ER), JC Romero’s (1.1 IP, 0 ER) and — well, even though he loaded the bases in the 10th — Brad Lidge (0.2 IP, 0 ER). The pitching was not an issue at all. By the time Les Walrond took the mound for his second inning of work, you couldn’t fault the Phils’ pitching for giving up runs. I mean, two runs against isn’t that bad.
All of the blame goes to the offense. The middle of the order went 0-for-13. Yet again, Eric Bruntlett was a hole at the plate. When the Phils got hits and walks, they couldn’t get the runners home. Count the outcomes — Pat Burrell’s pop up to end a bases-loaded threat to possibly win it; Chase Utley leaving seven on base; of course, the play that ended the game, with Shane Victorino being doubled up after a great diving catch by Brandon Moss.
Okay, let’s not dig on Victorino. If any offensive player deserves lax treatment, it’s him.
Then there’s Charlie Manuel, who made some bonehead calls.
- He bunted Chris Coste with Jayson Werth on first and nobody out in the ninth. The bunt was a pop up out. Eric Bruntlett came up next and promptly grounded into an inning-ending double play. Why waste a good bat against left-handed pitching and give Bruntlett the RBI opportunity?
- Then Manuel chose not to substitute Dobbs for Bruntlett in the bottom of the eleventh against a righty. Bruntlett popped up to end the inning. If that wasn’t bad enough, Manuel then subbed Dobbs in during the top of the twelfth. Dobbs in for defense? And hitting fifth? His bat was lost, and he’d never see the batter’s box.
Another call that could’ve went another way: bunting Ryan Howard with Victorino on third with two outs in the first inning. With such a lethargic offense, why not shake it up? Why not have Howard lay one down with the infield playing the deep shift? Why not let Vic use his legs? Instead, Howard hit right into the shift. Inning over.
We can pick all day. When it’s all said and done, this offense is an enormous problem. Can they fix it?
Associated Press photo
Posts: 0 Geoff
This team deserves this too. they, and many of you out there, even myself a few times, were ARROGANTLY bragging about how the offense was legendary and awesome and how we didnt need pitching to get to the playoffs and how great these guys are. guess what? NO. people worshipped this offense and said oh dont worry and how its come off the rails. pat gillick wasnt worried because he turned down offers for matt holliday and xavier nady. we can argue about the merits of doing the deal or not. but they failed to act and now theyre lost at the palte and they need help fast. but there is not much at all out there.
Posted: 12:32 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Kyle
I never thought I’d say this, but hurry the hell up and get back Pedro Feliz.
Posted: 12:57 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
I was at this atrocious game tonight and boy was this a horrible thing to watch. countless runners on base and in scoring position and not a single run. they walked us a total 9 times….9 times and we cant manufacture 1 freaking run from that. 12 runners left on base. Thats just horrendous for “the best offense in the national league”…where the hell is Chase. hes my favorite player and it hurts to watch him go up to bat and look so lost and clueless up there. has he been hanging out with Howard too much during batting practice that hes started to pick up some of howards problems? this is the guy who’s supposed to me mr consistent and a clutch hitter and i havent seen much of that since june…Its fucking August get ur shit together Chase WE NEED YOU.
I want to end on a good note if that possible. Joe Blandon as i like to call him because the trade at the time didnt seem like much help, pitched amazing. Adam who? what a way to once again waist another quality start from out pitching staff. we better win these next to games or there has to be some major changes going forward the rest of the season….but hey at least football is starting soon
E-A-G-L-E-S…..EAGLES is it to soon?
Posted: 01:18 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 that guy
Ruiz .213, Bruntlett .222, Howard .239, Jenkins .241, Taguchi .221. Really lousy hitting for a team with essentially 2 hitting coaches. If you factor in Utley’s 12 for his last 116 we are really dealing with a full blown cockburgaling by these bums.
Posted: 01:47 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Rob Cowie
War – Phillies as ’07 Mets
Posted: 03:08 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Arty
The Phillies are the greatest reason to have picture in picture TV. This way I can watch stuff I like and still watch their futility. Please, more Dobbs- less Eric. Please, less bunting- more hit and run. Please!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted: 07:05 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Charlie mis-managed last night attrociously. Why pinch hit for Blanton in the 7th when the way the game was going we should have had Blanton bunt Coste into scoring position with Rollins up and have Blanton pitch the 8th with a low pitch-count for him. The bench was used poorly and Dobbs’s bat and Jenkins veteran savvy we’re ignored and Burrell;s bat taken out of the game. Lifting Romero with a righty hitting .166 to bring in an overworked Lidge was frankly just a headscratching move and Walrond was misused horribly after pitching 1 good inning.
I’m a fan of both guys but it has to be said, Charlie is managing the team very poorly and is chancing his arm every game with the offenses ability to go downtown late and if your offense isn’t hitting, advancing runners and driving in runs you have to look at the pitching coach.
The pitching this season on the whole has been outstanding and is being thrown away carelessly. We breed confidence in our opponents and not in our clubhouse.
Posted: 07:31 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
Can we get some “Can Charlie” shirts like the tuna fish?
Posted: 09:00 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
The only reason I say we can Charlie is because he has lost his grip on the team. They don’t care about him at all it seems.
Posted: 09:02 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 KM
This is truly a team that didn’t need an offensive upgrade at the trade deadline. Hopefully everyone understands my sarcasm.
Posted: 09:16 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
If their offense wasn’t underachieving we wouldn’t have.
Posted: 09:17 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 adam
It’s not time to can Charlie, but it is time for someone to sit down with him and evaluate his managing. I think and outside perspective would help.
Posted: 09:32 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 adam
For whatever reason the Phils don’t have a sense of urgency when they are in first place. They never bury a team in the standings. They usually say, “We’re just trying to stay loose, have fun,” and etc, etc, etc.
Posted: 09:35 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Lewisauce
Tim Malcolm wrote:
“this offense is an enormous problem. Can they fix it?”
The answer, sadly, is a resounding NO. They cannot fix this offense.
This has gone on for too long. This isn’t a mechanical problem. This isn’t a bunch of guys getting mired in a temporary “unlucky slump” at once.
This is a systemic, endemic problem in the clubhouse that has been present since Spring Training, was covered up by the all-universe play of Burrell, Utley, Werth and the bullpen in May, and has since come to the surface. Problem is, it was there all along, we just couldn’t see it because we were winning.
No plate discipline. No hustle. No situational hitting. No brains. No heart. No passion. No desire. NO LEADERSHIP. No one holding the rest accountable. No one gives a fuck beyond their paychecks. Uncanny resemblance to the 2007 Mets.
I can’t take this shit anymore.
If Gillick had negotiated with Rowand DURING the season on a new deal, would it have fixed it? If we had a different manager, would it all be different? If we’d made a move for Manny/Nady/Holliday, would that have fixed it? If Gillick had inquired about Pudge at the deadline, would that have made a difference? If he had actually benched Utley/Feliz for not hustling now and then, would that have changed it? If he made defensive substitutions for Howard instead of Burrell late in games, would that be different?
I don’t know the answers to those questions, but Gillick has/had the power to make several of the above moves happen (and he still can on some of ‘em; it could go like this: Gillick: “Charlie, stop pulling Burrell in the seventh inning, and start pulling Howard.” Charlie: “No.” Gillick: “I’m your fucking boss. Do it or find a new job.” Charlie: “OK.” It really is that simple), but he failed/continues to fail to do so.
On April 1, we all loved our lineup and were skeptical of the pitching. The pitching has been good all season (Eaton/Myers excepted), but the lineup has been shitty for two straight months.
I don’t know if I can watch anymore. With acknowledgment to Mike T., forget “not a good team right now.” How about, “This is a downright awful team right now.”
Posted: 10:03 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Our offense gives teams like the Bucs and Frisco reason to be optimistic, we’ve neglected to mention the Bucs offense was pretty bad last night yet they still turned in the win. Walrond was kept out there to give an excuse for the loss and I’m sure at least a little bit this thought went through some of the players and coaches minds: “our hitting was bad but it was pitching that lost the game…” Yeah right…
Posted: 10:10 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 mg52
If I were a pitcher in the Phils’ farm system, I would refuse any promotion to the big league club. If I were throwing in the Phils’ rotation, I would request to be designated for assignment. In both cases, I would know that the run support down there was better.
The Pirates, a team on which a contender like the Phils should feast, made them look silly today. There is no excuse for that. Bad moves by Manuel and no production by the players are the lasting legacy of last night.
I am so sick and tired of saying it: they take too many pitches! From now on, they should be made to hit every fastball for a strike. They need to obtain, not hope for, victory.
These guys are human and should not be verbally crucified. I believe that we, as fans, cannot directly criticize them. But the management is at fault for not having done so. They have the authority to alter their approach – keep teams from being so sure of how to defeat them. If they choose not to use that authority, the only time that they should see team colors again will be in a postcard sent to them by their successors.
Posted: 10:15 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
You can’t say they take too many pitches, discipline at the plate is a trade mark of successful teams and you need to work the other teams starters. The Phils line-up makes a habbit of swinging at bad pitches and so many slumps suggest their not doing enough home work on what pitches they can hit off the opposing pitchers.
You rarely get the sense the Phils are controlling the flow of the game and that kills us when we don’t come up with those late inning homers just fanning the flames of the problem.
Posted: 10:19 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
^meant those late inning homers fan the flames of the problems making the team think their playing well on a little winning streak when their not.
Posted: 10:20 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Rob
Who would have thought that of all things the phillies pitching staff would end up being the most consistent part of this team.
I just really have nothing to offer on this situation. Never in a million years did I think the Phils would go 23 scoreless. It’s really embarassing. How many more pitching gems are the Phillies going to see from the starters? They are squandering opportunity after opportunity.
The Phillies are a team that always depends on someone else to lose the division to even have a shot, they don’t go out and get the job done for themselves. Last year it was the mets. This year, the Phillies are pissing themselves out of first place. It’s really horrible to see this happen. It bothers me.
Posted: 10:23 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 mg52
You are right: discipline is important. But discipline and nonchalance are two different things. For some teams, working deep counts is helpful. But fastballs that are grooved down the middle? Those should be hit! Swinging at those scares the pitchers. This team, for the most part, has shown that it cannot work the count well. How else can it be explained that so many pitchers have mastered the line-up this year? Therefore, this group should do something different. If chances are given to the hitters on a silver platter, it should be their obligation to take them.
Yes, I have seen them swing at first pitches and pop out, ground out, et cetera. Notice that I am not saying first STRIKES because they choose bad first pitches to which to commit. Only when they have taken their cuts and frightened pitchers into nibbling should they reconsider wholesale taking of pitches.
Posted: 10:26 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Chugging along waiting for the other teams to catch you doesn’t keep you alive in September unless your the ’04 Cardinals and they were full of play-off experienced veterans.
Posted: 10:31 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
You have a good point, it’s their lack of plate vision that’s as troubling as the lack of veteran presence coming. You don’t see any one of our experienced players come out looking like Pujols or Jeter or even guys like Pedoria who’ll hustle but always look in control of their game, were scrappy and undisciplined.
Posted: 10:34 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 mg52
I like your thinking. Pujols and Jeter do walk up to the plate with an attitude of little being able to go awry. Veterans do that. Someone like Pedroia, not quite a veteran, goes up to prove his worth. He goes with pitches and drives them up the lines, into the gaps, occasionally into the seats. Only occasionally – he does not depend on home runs to put him over the top. Either way, the players go out there to win. They change their approach when things are not going well and have a good read on almost any pitcher who comes their way. It is this blend of savvy veterans and ambitious youngsters that makes a team a contender.
Posted: 10:37 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
My point with Pedroia is he plays like a veteran, he plays the game hard but he keeps it tidy, I love what Vic does over the course of a game but it isn’t pretty. Most of our hitters step into the batter box without any authority looking as if their aim is to fend of a couple of pitches before grounding out of popping up. We ground into so many double plays because the guys out there are so overfocused and makes the mistakes they are trying so conciously to avoid.
Posted: 10:44 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 551 Brian Michael
In 1993 it took until September before the Phillies were shut out.
Posted: 10:47 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 mg52
That was obvious when Pedroia came to Philly. Good pitches thrown to him were hit. He had the confidence in himself to move with those pitches and get on base. He had studied the pitchers and used his athleticism to do the rest. What he did not do was go into the game trying to believe – but not quite believing – that he could do the same thing over and over again without prior analysis and hope to win. Victorino at the moment is closest to this sort of style, but not at his full potential because no one else is there to complement what he has been doing.
Posted: 10:48 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Bill
Larry Andersen said on the radio broadcast last night that maybe the Phillies offense isn’t as great as everyone is saying. They are almost 3/4 of the way through the season and have still not found consistency. If someone would have told me the team ERA, bullpen ERA, and number of quality starts the Phillies would have at this time in the season, I would have told them the Phillies would then be 10 plus games ahead in the East. Although Walrond and Condrey are not major league relievers in my opinion, the bigger problem is the offense. Do we need to change players or should we start by firing the hitting coach?
http://myteamrivals.typepad.com/phightin_phils_phorum/
Posted: 10:58 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Greg V.
I’m sorry, I’m giving these guys a break after last night. As in I’m not watching them for a few games. Every August it seems like I shut these guys off for a week or two just because they piss me off so much and I feel like I could be doing better things with my time than watching some of these crap games.
Having said that, I definately give Blanton a round of applause and I have to say that I am happy he is on this team. He has so far pitched beyond my expectations and he deserves a lot of credit. And Chad Durbin and J.C. Romero? Who could ask for better in the roles they are in?
But this offense is terrible anymore and is no fun to watch. Even when they have a good night, it’s still seems they could do better. I’m going to give them a week I think (and of course they’ll go on a winning streak and I’ll be sucked back in I’m sure).
Posted: 11:31 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Condrey has been fine. I love how everyone on this site scapegoats the obvious players to scapegoat instead of blaming the obvious. I mean, I see blame on Utley, Howard, Rollins but i always see more blame on Ruiz, Condrey, and Seanez. I hate seeing everyone put more blame on the guys on the team that aren’t supposed to be good instead of putting the blame on the super stars. The only person who will put full out 100% blame on a super star is Scot, but he’s blaming Hamels who isn’t the problem at all. Here’s an interesting fact.
Phils Runs/Game average WITHOUT those 20 run games = 4.62; Cubs R/G = 5.32; Cards R/G = 4.74. If you replaced those 20 run games with that average, they would have 532 runs – good for 10th in the league. Did I mention that they are in first place in their division? And the offense has been horrid for 2-1/2 months? It’s obvious that our pitching is the reason we’re in 1st place in our division. Who woulda thunk it?
Posted: 11:39 AM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Fred
Mental mistakes. The Phils (offense) just doesn’t seem to have their head in the game. Popups, strikeouts, base running errors all are at the forefront right now. Additionally clubhouse leadership seems to be an issue.
Moyer is the only one who has spoken out and it appears he was given very credence by the rest of the club. Some things just seem completely out of whack. Players taking their own personal cars on road trips, wives going along on road trips, players showing up an hour before the ballgame.
We have a bunch of fat cats content on taking home their paychecks every two weeks. This team is a runaway locomotive heading for a major crash (perhaps the crash is happening as we speak).
Posted: 12:02 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Gavin
The only thing you can do at this point is change the lineup around and bench people that are sucking. If I was managing them today this would be my lineup.
Vic -CF
Dobbs-3B
Werth-RF
Burrell-LF
Bruntlett-SS
Cervenak-2B
Howard-1B
Coste-C
Myers
Rollins and Chase can sit and watch.
Posted: 12:16 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
I agree 100% Gavin.
Posted: 12:20 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Fred
No one in the managerial or front office position has the intestinal fortitude to take a stand. Rollins, Utley, Howard and perhaps even Victorino (too many base running errors) should be benched. If we’re going to lose then at least let’s do it with guys who show effort.
It’s time to send a message but unfortunately that won’t happen.
Posted: 12:25 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
You wanna bench the only guy hitting the ball. That’s pretty dumb of you Fred.
Posted: 12:27 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
I’m with Gavin and Phil, but at this point I’m not really sure that Chase or Jimmy could give a rat’s ass whether they’re in the lineup or not.
Posted: 12:27 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Georgie, Chase will bitch about it because that’s what is expected of him, but you’re probably right.
Posted: 12:29 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
As for Vic, I think maybe is baserunning errors are because he knows they’re chances of scoring a run are slim to none.
Posted: 12:29 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
And on that note I’m going outside to do some weeding, at least I have control over that! BTW, is it a day or night game, I haven’t even checked. If it’s tonite, I think I’ll watch the new Die Hard movie or Zodiac, both alot less stressful than the Phlailin’ Phils.
Posted: 12:34 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Fred
Phil – who got doubled off to end the game last nite? The message is mentals errors will not be tolerated. Besides for all of his ‘hitting the ball’ a .286 batting average is unacceptable.
What’s dumb is not having an open mind about ways to turn this thing around. Send a message – no one is safe.
Posted: 12:48 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Lewisauce
Vic’s baserunning errors are not the biggest problem. That’s one (minor) tentacle on the enormous poisonous octopus that is the garbage play of this lineup.
23 scoreless innings? Blanked over 12 innings by a bottom-feeding NL Central team that just sent its best players packing in a sell-off?
The wheels have been loose for over two months. Last night, they popped off and bounced away. Charlie has lost control of this team, no one is listening to Milt (or he sucks; either way, the outcome’s the same), and no veterans are stepping up to hustle and hold everyone accountable.
It’s been a fun ride, gang. We may win the East, we may not. But playoffs? Not a shot in hell we’re beating whoever emerges from the Central or those pitchers from the desert.
I feel bad for the pitching staff. They keep turning in good performances and then get no backup. Garbage offense. Garbage hitting. Garbage attitude.
Posted: 12:52 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Oh wow, Vic made a base running blunder. Bench him. Bench the guy who has been one of 2 hitters who has been consistent the past 2 months. Bench the spark plug of the offense. Bench our best defensive player. Bench our 2nd best bag stealer. Vic was trying to score and tie the game last night, I don’t blame him at all. He didn’t think that guy was going to make the catch. I didn’t think he was going to make the catch. .286 unacceptable? He’s got the 2nd highest BA for any of our position players. He also had a terrible April. Take out his April and he’d be above .300. A .286 average is actually quite respectable, especially in this shitty line up.
Posted: 12:55 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 danny
Chase Utley, you suck! YOU’RE A BUM!
Posted: 01:02 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Bruce
Gavin~ The scoreless streak will continue with THAT lineup. Cervenak? Insane!! (laughter)
Remember the Phillies basically had the same core of key players in their lineup in last year’s drive to the division championship. They know what it takes to win and it’s not for a lack of trying to snap their slump. I think they are pressing and a losing streak will add that pressure to make things happen and lack patience to make the pitchers throw strikes. When the team is losing, every little mistake, mental and physical, is magnified out of proportion by fans and media alike.
It’s early August and unlike last year, the Phillies ARE in FIRST place and it’s not the time for panic and desperation such as the suggested lineup by Gavin . Reality check: that lineup is for fantasy baseball (chuckle).
Posted: 01:03 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 danny
Victorino is off the hook for last night- that stuff happens. That’s baseball. Plus, he’s been the only bright spot in the line up.
We didn’t lose because he got doubled up.
Posted: 01:04 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 danny
“It’s kind of like it wasn’t meant for us to score,” said manager Charlie Manuel. “We’re trying. If anything, we’re trying too hard.”
LOL
LOL
LOL
Posted: 01:06 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Im pretty sure you could send out a lineup of
greg golson
brandon watson
brad harman
mike cervenak
lou marson
jason donald
travis mattair
and a bunch of guys who are still sitting around in the free agent pool
and they would actually hustle better and play better fundamental baseball than the current squad. they might actually have won last nights game too.
Posted: 01:08 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
theres no such thing as “trying too hard.” if it looks like they are pressing it means theyre are “not focused” and they are swingig at anything.
without major improvements in play or adjustments theyre not going to beat ian snell tonight either, or who ever the pirates send out there on sunday.
they could send out yoslan herrera on suanday and the phillies wouldnt hit him at thsi rate
Posted: 01:11 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Vernon Dozier
I think it starts at the top of the lineup, and Rollins has had an awful year. I can’t recall an MVP ever having such a bad follow-up season. He’s had an attitude going since the third game of the season, and I can’t forget this Phil Sheridan column written after Rollins blew off reporters after a comeback victory: http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/17288864.html
My theory, (and it’s only a theory), is that Jimmy approached the Phillies about renegotiating his contract after his MVP season. If that’s the case, they apparently said no.
Posted: 01:11 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Agreed Geoff. Don’t take Victorino out of the lineup though. I know you dislike him, but he’s been awesome for the past 6 weeks or so.
Posted: 01:12 PM on August 9, 2008
Posts: 0 danny
Bruce we don’t need you and all that positive, rational reasoning on here!
Posted: 01:16 PM on August 9, 2008