Phillies Nation

I think people dont realize everyone theres a difference between being hurt and being injured. probably damn near everyone in the league is hurt this time of year and sometimes it has its affects. maybe he should skip a start if he thinks he could use it, maybe he should pitch through it. only he knows.

The way it is explained in the Conlin column, it definitely seems like a fatigue injury. Explaining that he goes ~160 innings each year before this happens just shows that he wears down. As a pitcher in his mid-20′s, this is to be expected.

The only cure for fatigue is rest. They should back him off, have him miss a start or two and throw lightly to try to rehab the strain that 160 innings puts on an arm. Sure, we need him now to try to keep pace with the mets and marlins, but what does getting to the playoffs do if we’re Hamelsless when we get there? Not much!

You still have to give him a contract, but if he gets hurt every year then you have to make sure youre protected. though not at the expense of losing him.

Has anyone looked at all the waiver-trade trash on the MLBTR list yet? aww man. i dont know where to begin.

but since they only posted the AL so far, ill wait because its easier to get NL guys.

The way Hamels is overthrowing and all of the sudden can not locate his change up means one of two things. He is either hurt, or Brett Myers mental problems are contagious. Seriously, the only other explanation is that he is a perfectionist and has been trying to hard with the result being balls up in the zone.

http://myteamrivals.typepad.com/phightin_phils_phorum/

I guess I still don’t really understand waivers..

Why would the Yankees place Giambi, Abreu, Jeter, Pudge, etc on waivers? Obviously they aren’t going to trade them.. so why do they go on waivers in the fist place/??

anyone that could help me understand that, I’d appreciate it

No I understand that part of it… but are teams required to place certain players on waivers..

Like since the Yankees aren’t trading Derek Jeter while any of us are alive.. why would they place him on waivers.. it doesn’t make sense to me

I dont get that list either. I think hes saying they could make it through. but i seriously doubt you have to put people on waivers. that would be retarded. man, there is some serious garbage on taht list though. wow. theres like 3 guys who have a chance at getting waived that id even want, because i know the contenders wont waive anybody

id even accept randy winn at this point, haha. but i wouldnt put it past the phils to inexplicably get an infielder who is NOT a 3b.

hahaha.. Mike, we’ll end up with… Ross Gload from the KC Royals then.

he any good? I’ve never heard of him

ahaha, aww man. backup 1b for KC i think: 295AB, 2 HR, 28 RBI, .275 avg. .321 obp, .346 slg. 32 y/o

awww man, thats TERRIBLE

yep, ross gload it is. the phillies are in talks with the royals as we speak.

i don’t hate Eskin. I actually think he’s sneaky & brilliant, i.e, he throws around the term “fraud” all the time. in reality, if u listen to him, his sports knowledge is rarely in depth, meaning, he’s the fraud.

Eskin is just like foxnews. Certain people tune in because the things he says are so outrageous that it makes people want to listen, and before long they start believing it because if you repeat a lie or a ridiculous statement long enough people will start to believe its true. eskin is notihing new, he just applies it to sports.

i still prefer missanelli. much better program.

example: the phillies will trade jimmy rollins for dice-k in the offseason. the phillies will trade jimmy rollins for dice-k in the offseason, etc….

I’m not saying this is comforting but what if Cole’s just in a bit of a funk. It’s a long season especially for the frontline pitchers where anything worse than 7IP/2ER raises an eyebrow and 6IP/3ER is where the chat begins that the pitchers not on their game. The Happ sitaution is an issue and he either needs to be inserted into the rotation irreguardless or a role needs to be defined in the pen, he has very little time to make an impact for next years rotation as there’s nothing to suggest Moyer won’t be there and we need to putting it politely… Shit or get off the pot with the kid.

As for Cole hopefully we is just suffering mid-season fatigue and needs some space to pitch through, remember Brandon Webb was pitching with a dead arm and didn’t go to the DL but has returned to form. If it is a DL trip then make the move but skipping a start might upset his routine. The focus has to be decent production from the 2 and 3 spots and sustainsed consistency from the back-end so Cole doesn’t have to worry about laying it on the line at this point in the year.

With his contract we need to lock him up to a market value deal regardless of his health or we run into Howard territory where Cole starts to loose his affection for being in Philly. As for the point about ownership we don’t have to massively increase the payroll but we do need a massive increase in the draft and foreign recruitment fund where don’t spend the kind of money the teams that have a surplus of bluechips do. We also need to start appreciating the farm, there’s some real decent prospects in A+/AA that get dismissed when the overall state of the farm gets critisized.

Dice-K is really overrated. His k/bb ratio is atrocious.

he does walk a lot. but hed be an effective number two. lester would be an awesome number 2, but im pretty sure that he is more untouchable than dice-k

yeah, that’s a little too wishful.

I agree that Dice-K is overrated.

But, here’s the other thing about Dice-K. So long as he’s not hurting the team the Red Sox are gonna keep him. If he’s 10 over 500 as a starter like this year, even more so. Why? Because Dice-K is as much of a business decision for the Sox as it is a baseball decision. The level of publicity nationally and more so internationally that this guy gets just increases his own value, and then in return the value of the Red Sox. It’s a team very concerned with it’s marketing image etc. There is absolutely no chance we’d get Dice-K for Rollins this offseason. Zilch. Nada.

I know everyone is stuck in the old days and think pitchers should be able to go the distance, well most cannot anymore and won’t be able to.
I did not read any of the above statements and maybe this was already covered.
As I watched Charlie mount on not only the innings but the pitches thru the first half with the 110 and above pitch counts, it brough back memories of how The Royals over used Chad until surgery was needed.
I have been wandering when we might see any of the results of the overuse, and have watched lately as Hamel did not look as sharp, myself wandering if there was any beginnings of an injury.
Let’s hope the ice is the usual and someone got a great photo.

http://www.rotoauthority.com/2008/08/innings-caps.html

good link about pitcher abuse of young arms. look whos at the top of the list, in the red. hamels…

I have had the same kind of question in mind as Don M regarding the practice of putting some of the best players on waivers. Tim , Mike T, Phil and others have not answer directly as to why this is done with ” NO intention of losing” those all star players. That part of waiver practice does not make sense to me (or to Don M).

Thanks Geoff; I had another laugh on your proposed trade: Rollins for Dice-K. You sure can come up with some doozies (laughing).

If Hamels is “injured”, that would be most evident to the manager and players with or without the pitcher’s disclosure. Common sense tells you the Phillies wouldn’t take any unnecessary risk with their no.1 pitcher and depending on the type of injury, DL would be the logical decision. I think Hamels like all pitchers is going through a stretch (slump) in finding adjustments for better command and pitch selection.
The other possibility is what one poster here suggested when he mentioned Bill Conlin’s article…”fatigue” may be a factor with a total of 160 plus innings pitched for Hamels. Management has monitored Hamels and his total innings since the start of the season. They are fully aware of Hamel’s track record of past seasons. It may be time now to give Hamels a rest (skip a start).

I for one enjoy reading Bill Conlin’s articles and have done so for many years. His accumulated knowledge from covering sports in general and Phillies in particular for over 48 years (including 37 world series) has resulted in various awards for his column writing such as the “Pennslvania Sportswriter of The Year”. His satirical wit and descriptive use of words make him stand apart from the generic writers.

He made a valid point that few if any here picked up on..
“The sellers giving up future Hall of Famers on career down-ticks want major league-ready prospects who have survived the high-minors crucible. They want them gifted and they want to have those golden years before arbitration and free agency.

That left the Phillies with one realistic, tradeable, option from the varsity – Shane Victorino. Fans, you didn’t want to see a Phillies outfield next month without him in it. Nor did you want to go into a stretch drive with untested Greg Golson and his high strikeout ratio as your centerfield anchor.”

The point he makes is the contenders “playing in the present tense” were looking for prospects who can contibute immediately in their lineup. The Phillies’ double AA prospects Carrasco, Marson , Donald, etc are not “major league ready”. And I’m sure glad Gillick didn’t trade Victorino.

Geoff, maybe you should “keep promoting the idea of moving Rollins” to the Phillies ownership, because I personally think that its not the greatest move in the world to trade your MVP, Gold Glove ShortStop… and bring up Jason Donald.. who, for some reason, you don’t think is that much of a drop-off from Jimmy Rollins.

Nobody said that the Phillies need to play moneyball.. and the fact is that a lot of good teams, namely the NL CENTRAL AND NL EAST leaders.. don’t subscribe to that theory, because the A’s have won ZERO World Series titles… it works to keep them competitive, but thats about it. The whole MONEYBALL concept is really about indentifying which stats you find important… in that case its ON BASE PERCENTAGE.. most other teams think its worthwhile to pay the guys that can drive in runs and play with heart, not just certain stats…

AND … the RedSx just paid like $100 million total to sign Dice-K.. he’s going nowhere.. and if people weren’t initially on-board with trading Jason Donald for a Lefty-Reliever….how can anyone think its smart to trade Jimmy Rollins for a Lefty-Reliever..

oh yea… 61-50… I’m happy with how this team is playing lately!

actually, the phillies said they have a “budget” that they cant comepete with the big spenders. so im calling them out, youre going to claim you cant afford to sign an elite starter in the offseason, arent you amaro? you want me to believe you? trade jimmy rollins, an expendable punk.

it would be one thing if he has shown EFFORT this year, but he hasnt even looked like hes trying. i was crushing shane victorino but at laest when he was in a slump he TRIED to get out of it. it doesnt even look liek rollins is exerting effort at all

PS..the marlins play a form of moneyball and they have won 2 championships in the past 11 years.