On Happ’s Limited Role
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Wed, August 06, 2008 03:17 PM | Comments: 22
Posts
Stephen Miller of the Morning Call released his notebook through his blog, and a little bit about JA Happ came up. He was used late in the game last night and gave up four runs.
Asst. GM Ruben Amaro Jr.:
“If we had our druthers, we’d have him stretched out and pitching every fifth day. Right now, we feel like we’d rather have him pitching in the big leagues than not. At some point, we might change our tune.”
More on Happ from Michael Radano. Same quote, more meat:
“But he’s part of our bullpen. He’s not necessarily a bullpen guy. We view him as a starter. But that’s what we need, and Charlie and (pitching coach Rich Dubee) will use him accordingly.”
Why don’t they just stretch him out and start him? Why does he have to be in the bullpen? Can’t the Phils go with a six-man rotation for a little while? Why not move Brett Myers back to the pen?
Things we’ve all tackled already, but really, Happ is being absolutely wasted in the bullpen as a mop-up guy. He has better composure and stuff than Les Walrond, Clay Condrey and probably Ryan Madson. He might be a better pure pitcher than Kyle Kendrick, Joe Blanton and Jamie Moyer. And here he is, getting work every eight days.
That’s useless.
Posts: 0 Geoff
excellent commentary, tim. this is what im talking about on the other thread. misuse llike this will get people saying “well he just needs a change of scenery.” then he gets traded somewhere and explodes onto the scene.
why not just have a 6-man totation? whats wrong with that? they have workhorses in the bullpen that can handle the load. durbin, condrey, madson can all eat innings when asked so why not try that to get more production out of our staff down the stretch? it lessens injury risk to your starters…
Posted: 03:24 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 MS
i agree on the 6 man rotation. he is wasted in the ‘pen. and for those starters who believe they need pitch on schedule (ie cole’s comments after the all star break), let them start on their scheduled day. work around that. i think it might be better to give everyone a little extra time as necessary getting later in the year.
Posted: 03:24 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
Isn’t it just typical for the Phillies to screw up another great pitching prospect? I think Amaro’s being paid under the table by the Mets or something, since he very seldom does anything in the Phils’ best interests. I feel bad for JA Happ, he would be better served if they had traded him!Geoff
Posted: 03:26 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
well youre supposed to be concerned with pitcher abuse nowadays and the best way to combat that is with a 6-man rotation.
Posted: 03:28 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Since when was JA HAPP a “great pitching prospect”?
Don’t get me wrong… the guy looks like he’ll be OK.. but Myers looked very good in his last two outings… Blanton looked very good his last time out…
Walrond (who?) did his job as the situational Lefty..and then they left him in for some strange reason…and that is Manuel’s fault.
Madson and Condrey have both been pretty good this season.. helping to make the Phillies bullpen among the best in baseball. They aren’t Durbin, Romero, or Lidge.. but they’ve done a nice job this season.
Posted: 03:33 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
a 6-man rotation, or skipping certain guys…like giving Moyer extra rest down the stretch.. I really thought they were going to skip Hamels on Thursday.. I was hoping that he was just tired, and not just ineffective… he’s our ACE and he killed us the last two outings
Posted: 03:34 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
Go with the 6 man rotation….Cole Hamels hasn’t proved that he can pitch a full year in the bigs in a 5 man rotation (especially since he seems to be hurt now) and Jamie Moyer is no spring chicken….it just makes sense
Posted: 03:35 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Tim Malcolm
While I cited Walrond and Condrey and etc., it’s not about them, it’s about Happ. Either start him regularly, put him on a schedule where he’s throwing multiple innings every couple days, or send him back down. They lack bullpen reinforcements right now, not starters.
Posted: 03:41 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
So, Don M, what would YOU label Happ? He seems to have his head on straight, which is a pretty big factor these days(Myers). But look what they did to Myers-starter, bullpen, starter, down to minors, now starter, and now people are talking about putting him back in the bullpen. You can’t keep messing with players like that, it’s bound to backfire. AND, reading some of your other posts, I think you just like to argue with people.
Posted: 03:45 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
A six man rotation sounds good, but its the Phillies we’re talking about. It won’t happen, especially after leaving Walrond in there after he did what he was suppsoe to do, which was dumb. They don’t know how to handle players at all, see Jimmy Rollins, Cole Hamels, JA Happ.
Posted: 03:46 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
precisely. theyre just as likely to do the opposite of the right thing as they are to do nothing at all. notice, i didnt say “do the right thing,” because they do that so rarely that its not worth mentioning.
Posted: 03:52 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I really don’t just like to argue with people… but we get some good conversations going when I, or others say something that isn’t agreed with..
Bottom line is pitchers need to do their job when they are on the mound.. Happ has looked pretty good, but I wouldn’t replace anyone with him in the rotation (MAYBE Kendrick..) but he’s won some big games this year, and hasn’t done anything to lose his job in my opinion.
Happ, at his best, is MAYBE a #3-4 starter.. so I personally, would not label him a great pitching prospect.
I do agree with you 100% that they can’t be bouncing players around between rotation and bullpen.. but I think they brought Happ up because they didn’t expect Myers to have those two solid outings in a row. What I think they need to do with Happ is send him back down.. there is no point using him just for lefties.. That guy Walrond looked NASTY in getting Jacobs out last night (if you needed a Lefty-one-out, situational reliever) But again, they left him in and he got pounded by righties…
Posted: 03:53 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Harry
It’s simple. Either you start Haap or send him back down to the minors.
Posted: 03:55 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Darren Daulton
It ain’t happening Geoffrey. The Phillies just aren’t not good enough this year…. you’ll have to go back in time to find the last Phillies world series team or travel another millenium to find the next one. The cool thing is that there is a pitcher for the Phillies in the year 2056 whose name is Geoff Barberi. He is a left handed first basemen who strikes out a lot… sorta like someone from today.
Posted: 03:56 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Darren… what year do the Phillies finally break through and win the World Series.. and who is the GM of that team, Ruben Amaro the 4th?
Posted: 04:01 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
am i the phils 3rd starter on the 2012 team that wins the world series?
Posted: 04:11 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Ben
It seems that Myers was sucking earlier and was then sent down, everyone’s hopes were pinned on him coming back and being an effective 2nd or 3rd starter. Now that he is doing that (albeit through only 2 starts), it has created a completely new problem. After these last couple starts there is no way management is going to put him in the bullpen for the 8th inning (although he could thrive there).
Kendrick should be the odd man out here, but switching him with Happ doesn’t do us any good. Kendrick should be sent down, but I doubt management will do that either. 6 man rotation is a reasonable idea but it makes the bullpen a little thin. I think we’ll probably have to wait for a DL stint for this situation to be resolved.
Posted: 05:22 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 OZ
it is unbelievable how dumb Amaro, Gillick, Manuel, Montgomery, etc. are.
how can they not see what 100+ bloggers, and several thousand Philly area, armchair GM’s plainly can? Happ is currently comfortable as a starter, and it gives rest to Hamels OR puts Myers in the pen where he is happy and remotely focused.
F*** Amaro and those other monkeys.
Posted: 05:33 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
OZ-because they’re first and foremost businessmen, not baseball fans.
Posted: 05:46 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Bruce
Don M it hit on the nail when he stated..” I think they brought Happ up because they didn’t expect Myers to have those two solid outings in a row. ” Management is now trying to find an alternate solution to Happ’s situation. To have a 6-man rotation is easier said than done. Would they give each starter’s an extra day’s rest? Or have each starter take turns in skipping a start from week to week? If so, how will that affect their preparations mentally and physically? Get the picture?
If Manuel is unable to use Happ regularly and consistently in relief, the best solution is for him to be sent down (until the September call-up?).
Posted: 06:28 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Johnny Fire
Hey Ben – Kendrick should NOT be sent down. What’s the rationale for doing that? He’s 9-5 and has done everything asked of him. Every starter has a rough outing from time to time, so yeah, he’s had a few clunkers… but otherwise, he’s been pretty consistent. And plus, the team is something like 15-7 in his starts – best of any of our starters. I don’t see a reason to replace a guy who is 19-9 in his career and pitches decent most of the time with someone we *think* will *probably* do a good job. That’s not sound thinking.
In my opinion… let’s stick with our five-man for now. If Cole bounces back, which he should, you’ve got your #1. Myers has been fine for two in a row, perhaps it will continue. Let’s see if Blanton can hold onto the #3 spot. Moyer is a formidable #4. Kendrick does everything asked for him out of the five-spot. I think Happ’s role right now is one of the following:
1. First lefty off the bench to get a key out.
2. 6th or 7th inning man.
He’s not a mop up guy and he has to pitch more frequently. We’ve been looking for a lefty… well, he’s a lefty. While Walrond may have looked solid against one lefty, Happ is more polished overall and could probably stay in the inning to face a couple righties. For now, your mop up guy is Walrond. Condrey can be elevated to his “super-mop-up” status, where he occasionally sees work in the later innings as well as mop up duty. Romero and Madson are your 8th inning guys and Lidge shuts the door. It’s not perfect, but when is it ever perfect?
Posted: 06:29 PM on August 6, 2008
Posts: 0 Johnny Fire
And I forgot about Durbin. He’s the jack of all trades… and your righty in the eighth instead of Madson. Drop Madson down to a less high-pressure spot (first righty reliever into the game).
Posted: 06:31 PM on August 6, 2008