Ross Not Coming To Phillies
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Thu, August 21, 2008 10:50 AM | Comments: 55
Posts
UPDATE (11:44 a.m.): The Red Sox have signed him to a minor league deal, according to Ken Rosenthal.
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The Phillies sought the services of catcher David Ross, but the Red Sox seem primed to grab him from free agency, according to Todd Zolecki.
Ross, hitting .231 with 3 HR and 13 RBI for the Reds this season, cleared waivers and was contacted by the Phils. No deal was made, however. Currently the Phils have Carlos Ruiz, Chris Coste, Jason Jaramillo and Lou Marson in the immediate catcher depth chart.
Posts: 0 Don M
I guess the RedSox owners and GM are “mailing it in” too, right??
Posted: 10:54 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Bear Mike
Complete garbage. The Phillies have plenty of depth behind the dish. I would be comfortable with Coste and Marson. If the Phillies are going to go out and get someone, they should go for the very best available on the market. Never settle for sloppy seconds.
Posted: 11:05 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Who is the very best available?? Its either go with what you have.. or try to add a random piece here or there.. That dude Russ Branyan hit a game winning home run for us last year… eventhough he sucks he was a dangerous pinch hitter. Adding a catcher would allow them to pinch hit for Ruiz when they need to and not have to worry about who replaces him.
they could go with Marson or Jaramillo, but I guess they were thinking of trying someone with experience first before settling for their own minor leaguers..
Posted: 11:12 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Nationals#1
Ross is hardly an upgrade over Ruiz offensively anyway, at least Ruiz knows how to handle our pitchers
Posted: 11:34 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
im optimistic about prospects generally, but what does that tell you when theyre looking at this trash, ross, instead of promoting one of our catching prospects??? what do we know about marson and jaramillo? nothing really. total unknowns. im optimistic abotu marson, but still, its a shot in the dark to an extent. i think hell be an all star, but who knows.
Posted: 11:40 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
We didnt need him, our C platoon has been fine this season. I’ll take Ruiz’s defense and chemistry right now over any newcomer. If our offense has been consistent this year then we wouldnt have to rely on our 8 hole getting a base hit every time up.
Posted: 11:44 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 MA Phanatic
thank god
Posted: 11:46 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
gillick said yesterday on DNL that they were looking into getting another bat but that everything so far had fallen thru.
Posted: 11:46 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris.I
Thank God they didn’t sign this guy…I don’t see what the purpose was to begin with. Ruiz/Coste might not be the best catchers in baseball, but if it isn’t broken don’t attempt to fix it. I just think there are other holes in the roster that needs to be filled in rather than a catcher.
Posted: 11:46 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 danny
I guess Ross did not want to subject his family to the elements of CBP. Once again, good show J-Hole.
Posted: 11:47 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Fred
Comfortable with Coste and Marson? I think that’s a bit of a reach. Coste is a third catcher at best and Marson is a prospect at best.
Posted: 11:48 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike N
Anyone notice that Ruiz is hitting .283 with a .387 OBP since the all-star break?
Admittedly, he’s only had 53 ABs.
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_splits.jsp?playerID=434563&statType=1
Posted: 11:59 AM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Fred
Projecting Marson as our starting catcher next year is a bit of a push. Wasn’t just two short years ago that Jason Jaramillo jumped two levels in a single season – AA to AAA? What’s to say the same fate isn’t awaiting Marson? Prior to this season Marson was only .261 career hitter. Sure he’s hit in the .300s this year but Ruiz’s last two years in the minors were also .300 years. And how has that turned out?
Additionally, is Marson a better defensive catcher than Ruiz? Can he handle the pitchers better than Ruiz? If the big guns in this lineup were doing their job Ruiz wouldn’t be an issue.
Posted: 12:03 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
screw selig and the rest of the gm’s go out and sign bonds…stick him in the lineup take pressure of the rest of these guys and just..the guy hits anyone and gets on base…
Posted: 12:12 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 bull
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20080820&content_id=3339021&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb
Seems Rollins is HoF material.
Posted: 12:19 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 philsphan
The Phillies need more offense, but I don’t think Ross was the answer anyway. I would have been fine with signing him to a minor league deal, but I am ok with Coste and Ruiz right now. I think they will bring up either Jaramillo or Marson in September.
Posted: 12:22 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Lets look at this once realistically, Ross signed a minor-league deal and we could have probably enticed him with incentives but it’s a very good time for a catcher to sign with the Red Sox organisation. With question marks over Variteks return and long-term status and the back-up spot always under threat Ross has a very good chance of being the Red Sox back-up catcher next season.
With Marson we have to stop looking at the batting average and comparing it to guys like Jaramillo, it’s so misleading. The reason Marson’s on the Phils radar as the catcher of the future is his all around offensive game is showing maturity, he’s not a slap hitter down the middle hitting above .300 like Ruiz was coming up. I think Coste is cemented as the back-up but if the Phils don’t like Ruiz going into next I think the more likely scenario is a Barajas type deal again.
Posted: 12:24 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Probably the best thing in there is, “Entering the 2008 season, Rollins led all Major-League shortstops in games and fielding percentage over the past seven years. He also led the Major Leagues in runs scored over the previous four campaigns. ”
J- STROLL can play..
Posted: 12:25 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
The Phils will bring guys up once the minor league season is over and it’s not a long shot to think both Jaramillo and Marson will be called up but thats irrelevant. The roster expansion primarily gives you a chance to use the pen more tactially but starters and position guys getting called up rarely means anything unless your commiting to using a guy like the Sox did with Ellsbury last year.
Posted: 12:28 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Nice… J-Stroll…
Maybe we can get a list going this there is for Nancy Drew… How about Mimmy Rollins?
Posted: 12:30 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
For all we know, Golson could come up (he can already play defense and run well enough to play here..like Ellsbury).. maybe he can come in and hit too. some guys pick it up when they are challanged. For what its worth, Ellsbury isn’t doing a whole lot this year, he’s had a few terrible months.. he’s a GREAT propsect, but who knows what that even means
Posted: 12:42 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Ellsbury’s done a fiar bit this year, his role has been lesser than expected with the re-emergance of Crisp and Drew. He’s projected to play almost 150 games with near 550 ABs and steal over 50 bags, his bat is fairly consistent and will improve as a contact hitter once he really settles into his game at the major league level. Boston are doing a very good job of integrating their young players and the way they draft enables them to get guys like Moss, Lowrie and Masterson up wheras our prospects are projected hit or miss stars, not contributors outside Donald who could contribute in the way Lowrie did before Lugo went down.
Golson will play some games as a pinch runner and defensive replacement but his bat although potentially as good as a guy like Rios is in serious danger of being Costanzo part 2.
Posted: 12:54 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 OZ
we got the W last night, lousy team, but took care of business.
i tip my hat to Gillick. landing Sabatha, Harden, or Manny would have been stupid. going all out for Ross took gohannes…
Posted: 01:19 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Bear Mike
Catchers (free agents for 2009)
Rod Barajas TOR
Henry Blanco * CHC
Johnny Estrada WAS
Toby Hall * CWS
Adam Melhuse TEX
Mike Redmond * MIN
Ivan Rodriguez NYY
David Ross * CIN
Javier Valentin CIN
Jason Varitek BOS
Vance Wilson DET
Gregg Zaun * TOR
Posted: 01:22 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 That Guy
As to the title of this post. “Who cares” would be better.
Posted: 01:24 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
I know it wont happen and wont give much offensive production but I’d love to see us give a year to Pudge with Marson coming up later next year, remember Coste can play around the field and Dobbs can double up as the 5th outfielder. Risky but could have really positive effects down the line.
Posted: 01:27 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
maybe pudge or blanco but man, thats rough. varitek isnt going to come here or even entertain the idea of leaving boston unless boston kciks him to the curb.
thats a ROUGH list. ronny paulino is done in pittsburgh, ryan doumit is their man. ill bet you could pry him out of there. he can be a solid guy until lou marson is reayd to come up. when he does that you can move ruiz or paulino.
Posted: 01:31 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Not so sure on Paulino, installing Doumit there long-term and bumping him was a big red flag. Blanco’s a back-up but it would be nice to get a guy in there who’s lead a team like Pudge or Tek but it would take being aggressive. It would be a short-term expensive downgrade but could really bring a guy like Marson, Jaramillo or even Ruiz to a new level.
Posted: 01:36 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
what about one of the rangers catchers? theyre VERY deep in their system. what about a guy like jarrod saltalamacchia to grow WITH marson when marson is ready. saltalammachia and ruiz would be fine until marson comes up.
Posted: 01:40 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Would cost too much to pry Salty or Laird and I think the catcher situation in Texas shows you have to name your guy and install a veteran back-up and anything else can be destructive.
Posted: 01:44 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
yeah. im a fan of the “grow together” catcher model or the “mentor backup – student starter” model. thats the same for goaltending in the nhl too.
Posted: 01:46 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
although, its fine if they grow together in the nhl, but come playoff time you need to have one guy emerge.
Posted: 01:46 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Salt was like THE piece they gave up for Teixiera.. they aren’t trading him.. why are we talking about adding a Catcher when 1 hour ago people were saying that Marson is going directly to the Hall of Fame, he’s going to be so good that they won’t even make him play any games at the Major League level
Posted: 01:56 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
haha. im optimistic, but surely, nobody really knows. they area prospects after all and he isnt YET in the category of automatic all star.
Posted: 02:01 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
then laird is going…or one of the 7 other awesome catchers in their system
Posted: 02:01 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Geoff, im 95% sure that you said you were “pretty sure he will be an All-Star” like 3 hours ago
Posted: 02:05 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Although this could very well be mis-information to drive up Laird’s value, the buzz coming out of Texas has them maing Salty the available catcher but it won’t be us in the mix for a deal.
Marson will be given a window and we have to address the best possible way to bridge to him and give him the right mentoring to become an elite major league catcher, the Ruiz situation will need to be addressed and is he going to be the defensive specialist back-up or are we Marlon Byrding him?
Posted: 02:09 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
thats optimistic don…but practically, we have no idea…i think hell be good. but we dont know. hes not automatic
Posted: 02:10 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Laird career Batting Avg = .254, Fielding % = .984
Ruiz career Batting Avg = .245, Fielding % = .993
no point in trading for a Catcher unless the dude is HANDS-DOWN better than Ruiz..
Pudge career fielding % in .991
Mike Matheny Fielding % .994
Charles Johnson = .993
Bengie Molina = .994
Posted: 02:16 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Career averages as as deceptive with the catcher position more than any other, the Rangers feel Laird’s at a point in his career where they think they can tap into some offense and I don’t think they like Salty behind the plate.
We’re not trading for a catcher period unless something really wierd happens, Marson’s clearly the catcher of the future and a path needs to be made to maximise his talent.
Posted: 02:26 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I think batting averages are.. I don’t think fielding percentage is deceptive.. and from your catcher, thats what you are looking for.
its rare to have the solid defensive catcher, that can hit too.. there aren’t a lot of them floating around
Posted: 02:29 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
There aren’t even a dozen genuine hitting catchers. Outside of McCann, Mauer and Martin your really dropping down a level to light hitting catchers who can contribute like the Molina’s or hitters trying to catch like Salty and Doumit.
The thing that really shows up with Marson is his ability to get on base, his willingness to walk and ability to hit shows maturity that should also show up behind the plate, don’t think he’ll be as good as McCann but if we can get a player that’s anywhere near what Lieberthal was then we should be very happy. I know Lieberthal gets trashed endlessly by some Phils fans but to have that amount of stability behind the plate for that long a period of time is incredible.
Posted: 02:35 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Richie
Texas has four solid catchers in their system and the one they project as their future, has not even been seen yet… they are Saltalamacchia, Laird, Max Ramirez, and this guy Teagarden who they think is their ace. I am sure we can pry one away from them.
Posted: 02:38 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Richie
notice how all of the good catchers out there today have a lasty name beginning with the letter “M” Mauer, Mcann, Martin, Martinez, all 3 Molinas. Maybe we need Marson is the guy. He has the “m” thing going for him.
Posted: 02:41 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Lieby had a career .991 FP%, and .274 batting average.. not too shabby…
I always liked him.. I also liked RRRrrrrrriiiicccooo Brrrroooogggnnaaaa cuase he was nasty at scooping and making picks at 1st..
Posted: 02:41 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Nice thinking but it’s not going to happen, we to in theory have depth in talent at the catcher position but it’s the single hardest position to predict which is why systems tend to be so deep at the position.
Posted: 02:43 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
MRuiz, Mjaramillo,
Posted: 02:45 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
i guess theres just really like only 5 tgood hitting catchers. a lot, LOT of trash
Posted: 02:50 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 TJ
Mickey Morandini, had to bring him up since Brogna was mentioned.
Posted: 02:55 PM on August 21, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Their not trash by any means, the catcher position is so demanding you cannot treat offensive production from the position like any other. Firstly these guys get knicked up in ways not even a pitcher can related to as they get shelved while the catcher keeps on playing, defensively their constantly focused on calling a game while their body is constantly under pressure and they have virtually no time to prepare for their next at bat mentally and make those adjustments. To be able to bat at all with your body under so much stress during a game is achievement enough for most.
Add to that that outside of a game while the other position guys are getting in extra hitting practise and watching film on hitting, the catcher is working with the pitchers and watching film to help him call the game giving him only very limited time to prepare as a hitter. Consider all those hitting pitchers who’ve really struggled to cement themselves as every day catchers and Ruiz doesn’t seem like worst guy to be holding a bat in the league, even a guy like Matthis has struggled because he couldn’t put it together as an all-around catcher.
If you haven’t read Coste’s autobiography do so, just making it to the majors for a cup of coffee as a cather in regular sesaon play is an incredible achievement.
Posted: 03:35 PM on August 21, 2008