Phillies Nation

Well, the Dempster signing does do one thing…it eliminates the silva signing. Silva was one fo the worst signings ever in free agency. at least dempster is a decent pitcher. so for a decent – good starter, this is the new value.

burnett will pull down 15mm a year, lowe probably 15mm, does that mean garland gets 9-10 mm? reallly? 7 mm for moyer is pushing it too..

this will get interesting now to see how they handle this. they said theyre going to improve the rotation…well lets see how they do it

I read that before about Dye, Magglio Ordonez, Coco Crisp, Baldelli.. but wasn’t sure where any of those names came from. Are any of them really up for grabs?

Baldelli is a risk because you’ll never know if he is healthy.. Ordonez is a SUPERSTAR and would cost a TON… but Jermaine Dye and Coco Pebbles are both very good still, eventhough I think Crisp is a girl for starting that fight against the Rays last year.. THAT outfield would be nuts… Crisp, Victorino, Werth

nothing would ever drop

Jamie Moyer won 16 games last year, in a HITTERS BALLPARK as his home field, while rocking a 3.71 ERA

If that isn’t worth AT LEAST $7 M….. I dont know what is.

I’d like to see the Phillies offer him like 2 years $15 Million.

Randy Johnson is one of the ugliest people I’ve ever seen, so I don’t want him on my squad

I think this is what we all expected though.

If the Phils want to push the boat out, then I think Lowe is the way to go — though it’ll cost probably $14 million per for 3 or 4 years, I think. Barring that, a 1-year flier on someone like Penny or Colon (or Johnson, as Matt says, but I don’t think he’d want to come back to the East Coast) is probably their best bet.

As it is, I think your scenario is the most likely: a mid-level signing to address the hole in LF (assuming Burrell signs elsewhere), a rotation candidate, and a bullpen piece or two. If the increase in payroll is used to structure an extension for someone like Hamels or Werth, then I’ll be pretty happy.

That’s a bit harsh Pedroia really stepped up this year, if he hadn’t when he did then no post-season for the Sox.

they won the wild card by six games. i think they would have been fine. Morneau was much more valuable. the Twins woulda been done in June without him

I’m hearing some noise Sheets value has dropped to $12m on as little as a 2 year deal and it might even be less than that, I’m not on the we have to get a legit number 2 bandwagon but it’d be silly not to get into the bidding at below market value.

Why would Sheets’ value drop that much when Dempster just set the standard with a $50 mil, 4-year deal?

Because Dempster’s health and Sheets isn’t, Burnett and Lowe will get their deals but it’s tough to see anyone else who’s issues are being over-looked. Every time Sheets name comes up the first comment is health and big eye brows are seemingly being raised over his September. I though the talk of 38/2 to Houston was about right but it sounds like his fallen has dropped him down a tier, one report I heard today had 6-8 as the figure with 12 described as the ceiling.

The problem with Atkins is it’s tough to see how a deal can be made unless we come out losers in it.

Thanks for making us laugh there Manny… The chances of Lowe signing for 11-12 are on a par with Howard taking a pay-cut in arbitration, if the Mets or Braves even sniffed us in the mix they’d jack up the price past the expected mimimum 45/3 rumored.

Chutley- You do realize that Pedroia led the AL in hits/Runs/Doubles and was 2nd in Avg.

He led the Red Sox all season, Morneau finishing 2nd is no slap in the face. Their OPS+ weren’t that far off, especially considering their positions.

Lowe went 14-11 3.24 ERA with a 1.31 park adjusted ERA……….. Moyer 16-7 3.71 ERA with a 1.18 park adjusted ERA……….. I’ll take the home town hero

Don I hope we stash Carrasco, Marson, Donald and Golson in Leigh Valley and turn that team into a real feeder. It may be playing it safe but those top 2 could be stars if groomed right.

Colorado have been asking for pitching and outside of Carrasco who’s off limits it’d be tough to see who past Happ would be acceptable to them as Donald or Golson would make the deal a real reach for us.

Chutley: If we really are going to believe that Moyer will repeat his 2008 season, we may be in for a surprise… I think we need a solid No.2 starter, someone to put in between Hamels and Myers.

Moyer could well be our No. 5 starter next year, at a price tag of around 7 million. Now, I know we’re paying something similar to a guy playing in Triple-A, but I just don’t see Moyer repeating a nearly flawless season in 2009… I really don’t think that the risk justifies the cost. On the other hand, we could spend that money and some more to get a more reliable starter who fits nicely as our No. 2 pitcher.

I did read that but I would disagree from what I’m seeing said. The Yankees, Mets, Red Sox and Braves have expressed definate interest and the Mets and Braves would overpay if they though the Phils we’re talking to Lowe. Maybe Lowe does go for $12m but he’d need years to drop his price especially with Dempster landing 4 years. I really would love to be on your Lowe band-wagon but he’s not falling to us, the Mets in particular wouldn’t let it happen.

Manny?Why can;t he repeat his 2008 season? It’s not like his stuff is getting any slower.

I agree but I’m confident we’ll be fine and until next year with a further developed Carrasco and with Eaton and potentially Myers off the books the Phils can fill the hole with the Yankees, Mets and Cubs all hand-cuffed by their impending deals. In this market we’re not getting a number 2 for anything less than 45/3 unless we have interest in Sheets. If the Yankees go with Burnett instead of Lowe and the Red Sox don’t make a deal Minaya and Wren aren’t stupid, they won’t let him sign with the Phils unless it cripples the Phillies payroll and Amaro isn’t that stupid.

Good point there NJ. IF the Mets, Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs all get hand-cuffed like you say, then the prudent thing to do would be resigning Moyer now for a ONE year deal, so that next offseason we could get a solid pitcher to fill the gap… But I don’t even think that a one year deal is possible with Moyer… we may also end up hand-cuffed with him if we give him more than 2 years!

The rumor is Moyer asked for 18/2 but he’s not going to get that in this market, 14/2 sounds realistic. I think at this point we have to commit to the idea Myers will have his head on straight, Blanton will be the Blanton of old before the A’s tried to make him a front-line guy and Moyer will be somewhere between his ’07 and ’08.

Though we can only guess on whats happening now neither the Yankees, Mets or Cubs will be in the hunt for frontline pitching next off-season with the deals they are looking to make at this point in time, I doubt the Sox or Angels will either with their pitching prospects so we have a far better opportunity then.

I have to say Sheets does look viable right now, it’s a risk but if he has in fact fallen he’d be within reach of us now. I still think that if the success of te coming season hinges on a number 2 then we’ll be seing greater issues with the offense which was a problem this year.

To continue on Don’s theme there if you look at what Boston are doing it’s a blueprint from success. Though they have had the money to reach with Crisp, Lugo, Drew- Esptein has built a team that is constantly re-inforced by cheap, controllable prospects (Papelborn, Pedroia, Lester, Delcarmen then a second wave of Ellsbury, Bucholz, Masterson, Lowrie) that means they are in a position to go after or re-sign marquee names because their not paying veteran saleries across the board.

This is the blueprint the Phils need to adopt because we are burning holes into the payroll even with stop-gaps. The A’s paying $4m for their top draft pick you is a pretty big sign of where teams need to be putting every cent they can muster not FA.

I don’t even know why we’re getting into all this… im pretty sure Lowe has a 0.015% chance of playing for the Phillies next season, who will go into 2009 with a rotation of:

Hamels, Myers, Moyer, Blanton, Happ ….. or something very close to that

52 over 4 is a decent deal for Dempster. I was afraid the Cubs were going to do something stupid like 70/5, but this is reasonable (and trade-able). Does this mean Peavy talks are going nowhere — or was the price just right?