Comments on: Report: Phillies A Logical Fit For Holliday

By: Memphis

Memphis — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 04:06:29 +0000

Kyle (Philadelphia): Do the Phillies have the prospects to get Holliday?

Keith Law: Carrasco, Donald, Taylor? Why not? I’m not saying they will do it, but the Rockies would have to listen to that, right?

KLaw just is saying the Phils have prospects worth considering, not that this is the package that would get Holliday. It could be less, it could be more. Cards have reportedly offered Ludwick (30), Schumaker (28), both were in the minors in 2007, and some dude named Mitchell Boggs. No high-end prospects.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8770300/Value-of-Holliday,-Atkins-questioned

To me, Ludwick and Schumaker are basically leftovers who just popped on the radar this year. That would be a steal for StL. We should be able to do better.

Holliday is gettable for a year.

By: MadSon

MadSon — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 21:11:43 +0000

RichieAllen

Pat has said that he doesn’t want to be a DH, that is why Cholly didn’t use him in that role in Tampa. Not to mention his numbers as a DH are god awful.

By: The Voice of Reason

The Voice of Reason — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 13:47:27 +0000

Being reasonable here. This is what we know.
1) Holliday will be a 1 year rental with Boras as his agent, and us needing to sign Hamels and Howard at some point.

2) Holliday is our type of guy. Hard nosed, gamer, balls to the wall type of guy.

3) Holliday will hit very well in the 4 or 5 hole. He won’t strike out as much as Burrell, but he won’t walk as much as Burrell either. He’s fielding is an obvious up grade, but not a huge upgrade.

4) No need to trade Vic or Johnny Wacko for the guy being that you’d still have a hole in the OF.

We would need to trade legit prospects that the Rockies would want.
I could see a trade including:
a) Kendrick (he’s going to get groundballs, he’s only 24 and he’s proven he can win at the big league level. I know he sucked the 2nd half of this year)
b) d’Arnoud – He’s blocked by Marson and Ruiz and he is a legit big league hitting catching prospect.
c) Donald – He’s a strong utility guy in the waiting who will eventually become a starting IF. See Polanco/Punto/Derosa
d) Golson – He’s still young and still raw, but he has the potential to cover some ground in that OF.

I’d only include one top tier pitcher in the deal, period. (Kendrick-Happ-Carrasco-Carpenter, etc.)

By: mikemike

mikemike — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 12:02:10 +0000

I believe most people agree Kendrick isn’t going to get you anything, Even when he was winning it was with as I stated before a high run support. Look at his numbers. If people think he is worth anything they are just dreaming. Carrasco,donald, taylor is crazy to give up unless you will sign him long term. The braves can get peavy but wouldn’t give up there top prospect. and peavy is a great pitcher who on the phillies makes them the favorite. I believe Hamels gets 5-6 milion Howard will go to 14-15 range and Madson 3 million. If I am the phillies I would use Madson to go get a left fielder as a boras client he is going to be a pain to sign.

By: Lewisauce

Lewisauce — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:40:57 +0000

Question: How much will Hamels get in arbitration this year?

Tim, maybe you have some thoughts? And everyone else, I’m curious what you think the predicted price will be. I actually have no real idea myself. Ruben Amarsehole Jr. said he wasn’t concerned about Hamels, that Hamels wasn’t a priority, etc. (which shows the hell we are in for during the pending “Amarro Era”).

But I want to know how much he will get.

Just ideas:

Hamels: $6 million
Howard: $12 million
Madson: $3.5 million

Am I way off? And what does this mean for overall payroll (I don’t have time to do the math right now)?

Thoughts?

By: Lewisauce

Lewisauce — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 08:35:26 +0000

I think we have to keep Vic, and it’s not because of the emotional, he’s-a-hero-right-now stuff. I think it’s simple economics. He’s cheap (made $480,000 in ’08), plays gold-glove defense, has top-level speed and contributes enough offensively and intangibly to justify the proverbial “don’t mess with something that works” assessment.

I’m not sure how much longer Vic is under team control, but even if he’s due for a raise, he’ll be a heckuva lot cheaper than any Holliday/FA options and you get a lot from him. Why would you trade a guy who does a good job on the cheap for a guy who does a good job at Boras prices for ONE YEAR only? And, as others have pointed out, this would leave a hole in center field. So you’re paying Boras Billions to Holliday, and you still might have to sign someone to play CF anyway.

I’m open to a Holliday trade (in my mind, it’s just replacing Burrell with Holliday), but not for Vic. I’d try the prospect package (Carrasco OR Happ, plus ONE position player (Marson/Donald/Golson/etc.), plus a throw-in guy from the lower levels), and if Colo doesn’t take it, no biggie.

By: Phillies Phan SC

Phillies Phan SC — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 06:02:44 +0000

Happ has his ring, I say it is worth the trade. I would also sneak Eaton in it for them.

By: Griffin

Griffin — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:27:24 +0000

Don’t forget the arbitration raises for Hamels, Madson, Howard and Bruntlett (unless they DFA him).

By: Jim

Jim — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:24:50 +0000

Just a note. The phils want to have their payroll around $130 mil by the spring training. Currently we are at about 100 (98 i think). But mind you that is last years (2008) payroll and includes burrell, who according to ESPN.com made 14.25 million dollars last year. So the phils actually have about 50 million dollars of payroll to work with.

I guess we can just clone alex rodriguez, we can now afford 2 of him

By: SJ Mike

SJ Mike — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:14:45 +0000

I sincerely believe that Kendrick has a lot more stock then everyone is giving him credit for. Recent memory is negative for him, but he did win over 20 games in less then a season and a half with an above .500 record. He’s 23, developing a 3rd pitch (changeup) and has potential to be a solid number 3-5 starter.

He may not have the clout and appeal that a prospect like Carrasco has, but he does have a one up on him: he has pitched to major league hitters for quite some time and has had success. That is appealing to teams.

I’m not saying Kendrick will bring high profile, high caliber talent by himself, but certainly part as a 2 or 3 for 1 package.

By: Griffin

Griffin — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 03:00:31 +0000

No one wants Kendrick.

Keith Law of ESPN mentioned that a package of Carrasco, Donald and Taylor might get it done. Remember, that the team getting Holliday will get two top picks once Holliday signs with someone else as a free agent.

So you’re getting one year of Holliday and two top picks.

By: RichieAllen

RichieAllen — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:55:26 +0000

Also on Burrell….He filed for free agency today.
The more time goes by with us not making a decision on Burrell,the more expensive he will become.
Some american league team will give him something substantial as a DH…
We should either make a quick decision ,sign him,or go after someone else now.
Maybe thats what we are actually doing….I wish I were a fly on the wall in Ruben’s office.

By: Jim

Jim — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:53:20 +0000

Mikemike I have to pile it on you here.

If anything your supporting kendricks case. He pitched extremely well his rookie year and for a good part of 2008. If hes only 23 with low velocity and 2 pitches, and hes doing.. average… I’d like to see him when he comes back with 3 or 4 pitches.

By: Nation

Nation — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:47:48 +0000

visit snatchsports.com for sports controversy

By: RichieAllen

RichieAllen — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:40:29 +0000

The key to all these questions still centers on Burrell……Do we or dont we go 3 yrs and at least 12-14 mil per year….Cause if we keep him there is no need for any of these other outfeilders..
Plus will the phils go to 150 mil per year and sign a big time pitcher?Lowe, Peavy?Dont think do..
I will bet the Phanatic’s ATV that we will sign Burrell,Moyer& Eyre..,keep the prospects,give raises to the current core players with arbitration,and not change too much.

By: Cobob22

Cobob22 — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 02:05:37 +0000

Pitching should always be put first. Don’t do it!

By: SJ Mike

SJ Mike — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:46:18 +0000

Mikemike, Kendrick has spent his entire stint in Florida and this offseason developing a changeup. He’s going to be a 3 pitch pitcher soon enough. He also has shown that he can have success in the big leagues. I think there are smaller market teams out there who would love a pitcher like Kendrick, one of which could be Colorado.

By: Matt Kwasiborski

Matt Kwasiborski — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:39:10 +0000

Then who sets up Lidge?

By: mikemike

mikemike — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:36:27 +0000

Let’s see Madson want’s rivera money. Boras is nut’s but most of his players get payed. So I Would now approach Colorado with Madson and minor league for Holiday. Madson will want big dollars and if we wait he is free agent next year with I am guessing no compenstation. Get rid of him now and get something.I always thought SJMike was realistic with his post but Kendrick come on who wants a low velocity, two pitch pitcher who can’t get out lefthand hitters and has had one of the highest run support teams behind him. but I guess no other teams see his numbers come on get real.

By: Jim

Jim — Fri, 07 Nov 2008 01:24:45 +0000

I agree SJ Mike. Kendrick is actually good trade bait. He’s fresh off his stint in the minors. Thing to remember, a lot of clubs looking to rebuild could want him. Sure he strugged last season but hes only 23! And he’s shown great promise when his stuff is on.

Maybe the bluejays will trade for kendrick and some farm talent for roy halladay….