Phillies Nation

Those parameters sound right. I think the Phillies are going more for the 2 years with third-year option. And it’ll probably be around 12M/year.

I don’t even know what “parameters” are… BUT.. they need to have a plan for Ryan Howard in place before they start giving Burrell extra years..

If Howard being traded before he would become a Free Agent is where they are looking, then it would makes sense to hold on to Burrell, and let him move to 1st base if/when Howard leaves.. if that is the case, you could give Burrell a 4-year deal or something.

If you want to keep Howard for the next few years and plan on giving him an extension… I wouldn’t go past 2 years with Burrell, because he’ll only get slower in the OF

Is there any way to find out what kind of offers Pat is getting from other teams. I hear people on ESPN saying he’s be better off in the AL as DH, but I don’t think they’re aware of the fact that Pat needs to be involved in the game if he’s going to hit. Selfishly, I’m hoping the other offers aren’t that great, so he’ll come back here for close to the numbers Tim gave. I probably wouldn’t give him much more than that, 2 yrs with a 3rd year option sounds ok, but I really like his stabilizing influence on the team, that’s something you can’t put a number on. Same goes with jamie, I’d give him 7M, his expertise in the fine art of pitching is immeasurable, and he’s a good role model for the younger guys.

I agree with the parameters set forth here. He’s pretty much a one-dimensional player. Doesn’t run at all, doesn’t hit for average, doesn’t play good defense, he’s got a strong, accurate arm and hits for some decent pop. That doesn’t sound like $15M a year to me, so about $11M or so sounds about right.

Don M, no way does he go to first. They tried that back in 2000. He’s worse than Mike Piazza on first. Terrible. He just can’t move around over there. I’d bunt down the first base line every time up.

I also don’t think we should invest in Howard for the long-term, (but this was a major topic in previous blogs). Gotta go after Hamels, and go after him hard. Pitchers like him don’t come around that often. We were lucky to get Steve Carlton and Curt Schilling via trade, but other than those 2, who were the best to come out of our farm? Fergie Jenkins?

Burrell is a DECENT piece for our lineup, but if he walks, he walks. I don’t think there is anything wrong with a Baldelli/Jenkins/Dobbs lineup. Baldelli faces lefties, and would be a great piece to come off the bench to pinch-hit and be a defensive replacement. And maybe why not try Baldelli out at 1B a little bit. Who knows, there a bunch of possibilities.

I love Pat, but I question how much he has left in the tank. He is already probably top 5 slowest players in baseball, which doesnt bode well for a LF. It seems he should be destined for an AL team, probably increasing both his longevity and value. I might go to Bradley.

Mike absolutely. Dobbs is great for a pinch hit HR every once and a while but consistently no way. Burrell is a HR threat every time he walks to the plate

Call me an idoit but we came into this year with a platoon in right and a question in center and came out with a gold glove and 2 solid starters….why not platoon and take the extra cash and sign someone like derik lowe… hamels lowe and myers at the top of the rotation sounds pretty juicy to me!!!!

It might be unrealistic, but I wouldn’t go over 9 mil per for 2-3 years for Pat. IMO, that means Pat’s gone. I really would like to land Dye, but not sure what the price tag would be if he even is available. interesting trade between the Red Sox and Royals. I like the players involved. We could’ve used either side of the trade. Crisp or Ramirez.

Werth is a unproven player until he repeats , charlie has said it before he has to hit right handed pitching better to play. You are risking a season on him being better to repeat. Do you think the platoon in left give us thirty homeruns and 100 rbi. Jenkins didn’t show he could and putting dobbs in left weakens your bench.

I must admit that I really haven’t seen Ibanez play. But looking at his number he is fairly consistant with twenty some hr, and 100 rbi, not a lot of walks, and no speed concern me two stolen bases and caught four times. but if you can sign him under ten for two yrs. with opinion go do it.

Werth is a former 1st-round draft pick with LOADS of talents, who has had very bad injuries to his wrist, to the point where they didn’t know if he’d play baseball again..

He’s shown that Yes, he needs to hit righties better, but he started doing that once he started seeing them more as a full-time player. AND.. as long as he stays healthy, I think he will continue to improve, not just repeat.

He hits RHP at exactly the same career number as Pat Burrell, .251 but Werth kills LHP, .291, and the league in HRs off of LHP this season.. I think that if they add another RH to the OF, you can get by with Stairs/Jenkins, and whoever the RH is in left-field …. the Phillies have been solid with their decisions as to which home-grown players to hold onto in the past few seasons, maybe there is a reason they have been keeping Golson around, maybe they see something we don’t

Hey Chutley, with all due respect, Pat Burrell has the range of a four foot cast net. Do you WATCH the Phillies? Despite all of Pats shortcomings, if he was good for 50/140 every year like Howard, I would keep him and he could pull a futon out to left field and sleep in it for all I care. Cmon, man. Get it together.

Probably because he wants $17m a year.

Dipshit listen up. Hoard strikes out 200 times a year so his number are 50/140/200. Burrell is a decent LF and Dobbs and jenkins cant come cose to his bat. Derek Lowe went 14-11 against the NL west. he’d get lit up in the east.

Lowe had a BAD team behind for most of last season.. until Ramirez got there and they started winning… they still weren’t that great, but Lowe is one hell of a pitcher and “Wins” as a stat for pitchers doesn’t mean as much as their ERA

Hey Chutley, what are you? Burrell’s uncle? Burrell sucks in the field. Doesn’y make him a bad guy or a bad player. I’d love him at 5m. Not 12 or 13m. Now please take your tongue out his mouth :)

Love ya, dude.

*Gavin – I believe Tom Gordon was given a contract where he made less in ’08 than he made in ’07. I think you are somewhat right, maybe 2 yrs in a row you cannot have a lower salary or maybe signning bonues have something to do with it.

I would like to see Burrell again, but if he’s gonna walk, I’d be very in favor of getting a top quality pitcher (LOWE) who can be our No.2 and go with a Jenkins/Dobbs combination for the outfield spot.

Jenkins, if he has an average or slightly-above-average career year, can be a pretty decent guy to have behind Howard. What we would need to do if that happens, is bumping Utley to No.2 in the lineup and putting a righty/switch-hitter in No.3.

The Dipsy, I’m now a member of “Derek Lowe In Pinstripes Foundation.” Guess I’ve always been…

Tim– How come nobody talks about Bobby Abreu? He batted .296 with 20 HRs, 100 RBIs, and 100 runs scored for the Bronx Bombers in ’08, a lineup that produced similarly to ours. SI.com has dubbed him as one of the top bargains of the ’08 offseason and claims that he could look like a star with a change back to the NL. So why not in red pinstripes?

If the price is right (low 8-figures over 3 years) I could see Abreu returning as an experienced vet to a rejuvenated Philadelphia team poised for a championship defense. His legs can still churn (9 triples, 47 steals in the last two seasons) and I could potentially see an outfield comprised of: Werth in LF, Victorino in CF, and Abreu in RF.

If Booby can’t make the trip down I-95 for whatever reason (Amaro isn’t high on him, he doesn’t want to return to Philly, etc.) my next top choices would be Rocco Baldelli and Milton Bradley. All three options are more fiscally viable than re-signing Burrell.

So if Burrell won’t accept these parameters, I say we move on so we can put our $ to good use in other areas. Thoughts?

JNova. He’s a lefty. No more lefties.

Dobbs is a nice player.. and a good hitter.. But the fact that the Pinch Hitter role is so important in the National League, and Dobbs is THE BEST in baseball.. I think they leave him in that role, while giving him spot-starts at 3rd base, or in the outfield against tough Right-Handed-Pitchers..

I’m sure they’ll look into him.. but im also sure that Mets will outbid us

I actually think Lowe either goes RedSox or stays in LA though

TheDipsy: I fully understand the lefty argument, but the only other righty outfield alternative (ManRam) is too expensive. Bobby can hit lefties and will do the things that Burrell didn’t while only hitting 10 fewer HRs.

If a righty outfield bat is needed the only options I see are (from the best option to the worst):
1) Jermaine Dye
2) Garrett Atkins
3) Milton Bradley (S)
4) Rocco Baldelli

Options 1 & 2 cost us minor league resources and 3 & 4 won’t produce in the way that Bobby would.

Too bad we missed out on Crisp…it seems he could have easily been had for Ryan Madson.

His numbers are good, but is anyone else simply … uneasy about Bobby Abreu? He had his run here. He put up good numbers. He drove in runs.

He also let in runs (i.e. his lazy ass in RF), and the fans and his teammates got really, really tired of his act by the end. In fact, his trade was one of the major catalysts to the Phils’ success.

I can’t put my finger on why, but I don’t want to see Bobby A. in red pinstripes. That era is done.

I’m also warming to the idea of letting Pat walk. He is my favorite Phillie (next to Vic), but that’s a lot of money that could be used elsewhere. I think Johnny Wacko needs to play every day, which leaves you with a Jenkins/acquisition?/Dobbs? platoon in right. Maybe brooks is right. Maybe Jenkins just had a bad year.

And I know Dobbs is the best PH in the game, but if I’m the GM, I give him what he deserves: a shot to play half-time in the outfield.