Trade Talk: Don’t Expect Holliday Or Ordonez In Red
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Wed, November 05, 2008 12:38 PM | Comments: 28
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Today in the Daily News, David Murphy writes about options that could surface if Pat Burrell exits, stage left.
Charlie Manuel says the Phils would need a right-handed hitter if Burrell leaves:
“If he’s not a power guy, he’s got to be a high average hitter, like a .300 hitter who knocks in runs. A guy that knocks in runs that doesn’t strike out a whole lot, he can do that job, too. But at the same time, we definitely need a righthand hitter who can put up some numbers.”
Murphy then mentions Magglio Ordonez of Detroit (.317 AVG, 21 HR, 103 RBI) and Matt Holliday of Colorado (.321 AVG, 25 HR, 88 RBI). A lot of people have mentioned Holliday.
I’ll rule them out right now. Ordonez is worth $18MM in 2009, and Detroit is trying to get rid of that money. Holliday, meanwhile, is a one-year rental. The Phils need more than a year from left field.
There is talk Milton Bradley would want four years in a new deal. I can’t see the Phils going that far. Instead, Rocco Baldelli or Juan Rivera seems much more likely.
Posts: 0 Sam
You know what? I not only want Magglio, but the tigers might be a good match with the phillies. The phillies have 14 million coming off their books from burrell, and will expand payroll from the series winnings. The money doesn’t scare me. Especially if it is mostly a salary dump.
From a production point of view, he is consistently a .310+ hitter and would certainly benefit from that short porch in left. Put him at number 1 on my wish list if we can’t get Burrell back.
Posted: 01:04 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Milton Bradley will be Milton Bradley… Are we seriously thinking Rocco Baldelli is a viable candidate to be an every-day leftfielder especially after seeing him not healthy up and close. Sure he showed some power but he barely played, a reach as a bat of the bench to fill the vacant spot with upside is one thing, but if we sign him as anything more and our outfield will look like patchwork carousel.
Posted: 01:07 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
The money may not scare you now, but factor in a potential Magglio contract with at least Hamels, Howard, Werth, Victorino, Madson and Dobbs getting arbitration raises. Or more. You’re looking at adding that pay you’re losing with Burrell right back, and then some.
Posted: 01:08 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Karch
I don’t want Juan Rivera in left. He hasn’t been able to stay healthy the past two years, his numbers have suffered and he really only has one good season under his belt – and it’s nowhere near the production of Burrell.
Posted: 01:14 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Sean P.
Is there any idea of what type of contract Burrell is looking for?
I don’t see a scenario with the Phillies paying him something competitive without over-paying him. I don’t think he’s worth more than 10-12mil a year. And I’m sure someone will easily pay him 15+ mil a year.
Just look at the RIDICULOUS contract that Andruw Jones got last year!
Posted: 01:14 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Colin_K
Any talk of Milton Bradley scares the bejesus out of me. Isn’t he more of a headcase than Manny?
Maggs would be good, sounds like the Tigers need pitching, and $ relief. If it took a lower tier prospect and $10 million paid by the phils, I would do that (in the hopes that by next springs Taylor and/or Donald would be able to fill in where Dobbs isn’t playing).
I still think they should see what it would take to get Ludwick from the Cards…the Phils obviously have the pitching to offer (Kendrick, Blanton, Happ, Carrasco).
Posted: 01:17 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Ordonez is only moving if the Tigers bite on salary relief and a suitor sends some moderately promising pieces in return.
Posted: 01:18 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 PhillyFriar
Here’s a more realistic — and better, IMO — trade target…
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/white-sox-shopp.html
Swisher had a down year in 2008, but that just means the Phils would be buying low. He’d be a great defensive upgrade in LF and, as a switch hitter with some pop and great OBP ability, he’d be the perfect replacement for Burrell.
Go ahead, Ruben, get it done.
Posted: 01:23 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Sean P.
What? no talk of Ken Griffey Jr. playing left field?
Posted: 01:28 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Jeff
Do Gordon’s and Eaton’s salaries come off the books next year?
Posted: 01:34 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Buying low on Swisher would still take major prospects, remember Kenny Williams sent Gio and Sweeney to the A’s in the deal and they White Sox aren’t in Ordonez land with him.
Gordon’s gone and Eaton’s waiting to be ‘Steve Smith’d’
Posted: 01:52 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
Swisher had a .332 OBP this season. While you can venture he’s about to hit his prime, he’s no more than a career .250 hitter with a high propencity to strike out. Yes, Swisher is cheap, but he’d cost in prospects. I’d almost rather bring back Burrell for three years – at least you’re getting the same thing without trading prospects.
Phils still have $8M or so on Eaton this year. Gordon’s contract is done.
Posted: 01:55 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Sports News Las Vegas
We could possibly see the Phillies play a safe rout and not agressively go after a big name like Ramirez or Mags. The Phils have had great success with their farm team and pick ups like Werth and Feliz. My guess is that they would play it conservative and jump on a player like Swisher to follow in the foot steps of Rowen and get a solid hard player rather than an expensive, possible headache.
Posted: 02:18 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 OZ
No Manny, No Milton Bradley. This team is too solid and unified right now. Let’s not underestimate that.
I’d give Burrell three years. As Tim wisely points out – if nothing else, we don’t lose prospects. Thome should finally be off the books, no?
Posted: 02:26 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
I agree OZ, the risks far outweigh the benefits of adding someone like Manny or Bradley to the team. I think chemistry was a big factor in the Phils winning the WS, if you throw headcases like that into the mix, you’re just asking for trouble. Besides, Bradley’s numbers before ’08 weren’t spectacular, by a long shot. Burrell is streaky but fairly consistent in his season-end stats, I know he’s slow, but he has a good arm, and most of all he is a stabilizing influence on the younger guys. Did you notice how some of the younger Dodgers were starting to act like Manny shortly after he arrived? Not cool.
Posted: 03:09 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Chuck
Ditto with what OZ just said. No Bradley or Manny. Burrell for 3 yrs/36 mil. That’s it. He rejects that then let him walk. Do it soon so if it does collapse then we have time to go to Plan B. IMO, I don’t think he rejects that deal. He wants the 3rd yr and maybe it is an overpayment. But I think a few extra million is worth what he brings to the clubhouse in stability, etc, etc, etc.
Posted: 03:11 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Chuck
See….Georgie agrees too……must be the right way to go
Posted: 03:13 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
See, Chuck, you realize just like my husband, that I am almost always correct! LOL!
Posted: 03:16 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 J-Man
We should try and make a trade for Ordonez…I don’t see us having to unload the farm system because he’s mainly just a salary dump for the Tigers and he’s getting old.
Posted: 03:26 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 timb
the thing I hate about Burrell is he gives you 6-7 innings a game with the way Cholly plays it. I’d like a guy who can bring it with his bat and his glove.
Dobbs may not be too bad of a choice if need be… have Werth bat 5th.
Posted: 03:34 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Chuck
Most women feel that way, Georgie……guys just tend to take awhile to figure that out. At 50, I’m still learning….believe me.
Posted: 03:49 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Richie Allen
Boy this is a tough call for Amaro(ON BURRELL)..2 or 3 years?…How much per year?.do we give up some prospects and try Ordonez,or even try Holiday for 1 year before he becomes a free agent?
Yesterday I was sure giving Burrell a 2 year deal max was the answer but today I dont know.
Like people above said..TEAM CHEMISTRY..Id like to keep him.
I thought maybe the Phils would have leverage with Burrell to sign him for less since this is where he wants to be,and we re coming off a series win.But,who knows.
Posted: 03:55 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Interesting name thrown out on mlbtraderumors is Josh Willingham.
Posted: 03:57 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 mikemike
Tim can’t see the phillies paying 3.8 million to eyre will he sign cheaper.
Posted: 05:44 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 John
I dont think i would give Burrell a 3 yr deal. Because you never know which Pat the Bat your going to get. Dont get me wrong i love the guy and wish he would stay for less money. In the case he leaves I would try and go for Maggz and if they are asking too much for him I could def see Swisher in Red next season for the right amount Amaro def has his work cut out for him this offseason esp coming off of a Worls Series Win!!!!
Posted: 08:12 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 Andeezy
I’ve got a couple ideas…mind you they’re only ideas….
1) Get ordonez. Granted, it might be risky with money, but i think we could manage it.
2) Trade jenkins for another feilder. It would hopefully buy us cap room at the least so if we only get a utility guy we have room for a maglio ordonez type person.
3) Go with jenkins, victorino, and werth in LF, CF, and RF. Jemkins wasn’t that bad in philly, considering it was his first year here and look how much better rowand got in his second year here.
4) play dobbs in right. I really like this idea. Dobbs plays a good left feild, as he showed us before. That, and because he plays third he at least has a decent arm. Add that to the fact that he was the best pinch-hitter in the league last year, and consistently hits off righties, and i think he’ll at least be as good batting wise as burrell’s inconsistent hitting, and probably the same or better in the field. And as an added bonus, we’ll get some good salary room.
Posted: 09:44 PM on November 5, 2008
Posts: 0 KM
I don’t think Baldelli would be a good move, given his injury history, and the fact that he is currently playing with a debilitating blood disorder.
Posted: 02:03 PM on November 6, 2008
Posts: 0 KM
I agree completely on Ordonez and Holliday. It really would not be worth getting either guy. Ordonez is due to seriously break down, and Holliday would be here for a year only.
I see the Phillies sticking with what they have for next season. I kind of like Dobbs in LF, but that would deplete our bench in a big way. If we do that, then we have to spend some money on a pinch hit specialist.
I could see it going down like this:
SS-Rollins
CF-Victorino
2b-Utley
1B-Howard
RFWerth
LF-Dobbs
3B-Feliz
C-Ruiz
Pitcher
Posted: 02:09 PM on November 6, 2008