Phillies Nation

I hate forgetting to put quotes around the original post. Grr.

If they did do this..you NEED a righty after howard…you really do…it would have to be something like

rollins/victorino/utley/howard/werth/ibanez/feliz/ruiz/P

i dunno…the more i think about this move the less it makes sense..why waste a first round pick on this guy? hes type A, and youd surrender your pick for him…i dont think this is what they need. they have a lefty hitter…i really believe they need to get a right handed hitter. juan rivera is ok..i dont like bradley and no need to bring back burrell..id rather spend the money on pitching…just get me a right handed bat that can hit 5th or 6th and do a nice job…nothing outlandish, no huge insane splash costing tons of players or money..just a solid performer..

id rather see them acquire a starter through trade for the third slot..add depth..the rotation this year is already better becausae eaton and kendrick are repalced by happ and blanton…so thats a relief at least…lowes too expensive for a 36 year old..my final verdict is that ill pass…pass on oliver perez, pass on burnett, pass on andy pettite…garland (if hes cheap ill consider it..otherwise, pass), ben sheets (if you can sign him for two years affordably id immediately make that offer, and take the gamble – add a durability incentive in the contact).

sheets would be my top choice now..check in, see if hes affordable, otherwise…pass….

if all that fails id rather trade for someone than consider odalis perez and other slop like that..

theyre not going to sign manny, amaro openly came out and said he has no interest at all and will not even make an offer to manny…which is the right thing to do…to afford mannys salary they would have to shed like 20mm in salary (myers, howard) and that is not worth it…signing manny is THE very worst big splash move any team will make this offseason. the dodgers dont even want him back, and NOBODY ELSE WANTS HIM….he has not recieved any other offers because hes WAY overpriced…

all of these left fielders on the FA market are overpriced and overhyped, the A/B ones. whats wrong with juan rivera…otherwise trade for someone…

i prefer trades to free agent sinings if you have to go outside the organization to fill a need…

vic/utley/werth/howard/rollins/ibanez vs leftys
they dont need a righty…ibanez is the right signing…if you can hit lefty pitching does it matter if your lefty or righty…shouldnt. 270 for a lefty vs lefty is great cause it means hes over 300 vs rightys. juan rivera stinks…geoff who is this not outlandish, not insane splash that can hit 5th as a solid performer…to protect howard you have to be good…like ibanez is…a threat to drive in runs that people wont walk howard to get to. do you see people choosing to pitch to howrd to avoiding loading the bases for juan rivera…face it burnett and lowe are unsignable and arent going to be here next year so get the best leftfielder available…raul ibanez

have you actually ever looked at juan riveras stats…300 atbats in last 2 seasons…255 average in that span…what a joke…best year in career is 06 hit 23hr and .310 in 120 games…never played a full season in 8 year career…nothing about him is desirable in any fashion…stinks. moyer and ibanez signed and this is a great offseason…forget burnett and lowe

Yeah, after that great 2006 (.310 avg, .362 OPB, .525 SLG, all comparable or better than Burrell last year, plus 23 HRs, 85 RBIs in 142 games), Rivera broke his leg and missed almost all of 2007. Last year, he never got a lot of time as the Angles have like 6 outfielders. It’s a buy low (last year was his worst year, by far), take a chance, hope he stays healthy and gets his mojo back. It’s full of risk, just like signing Werth was. His career numbers are closer to his great 2006 than his down 2008. And he’s only 29. He’s not a savior, just a part-time guy with the potential to play himself into a regular spot.

you guys are seriously interested in getting Ibanez. im just gonna say pedro feliz 2.0….but a lefty version

as a pat burrell fan i hope he signs with somebody and haves a spectacular season.

mike dont be silly…ibanez hits .290 every year and drives in 100 runs misses very few games, hits lefty pitching great…feliz is a .250 hitter

so…he hit .300 vs leftys…higher than burrel who is a righty…phils didnt sign chan ho park

i do hope burrell does well…unfortunately he hit the market during a satuarted year for the LF/DH types…he should have taken the 2yr/22mill phils offered him after the WS…nobody wants to give him 3yrs…agents tell these players they are worth so much more than they are and it ends up costing them money in the long run

i hope burrell kills us in a game this season…but not the season. maybe he should go to mets i’ve always wanted to like a player on the mets besides david wright i like david cuz he speaks the truth and he doesnt showboat.

and by the way hes 36 so i dont c more than 2 good years left in him let alone 1 i just wanna see how many years the phils offered be interesting…

mets are a joke…im not really interested in finding a reason to like their players. .250 hitter turned down 11 million per year…i dont feel bad for pat…like him but he made a dumb choice thinking someone would give him 3 years 40mill

I don’t know if I trust Ibanez. Yeah, he has good numbers against LHP and whatnot but I guess I don’t trust a guy who hasn’t played on a playoff team, or a team with any expectations really, since the 2000 Mariners. He didn’t even hit above .260 until after he went to the Royals in 2001, and they suck! And it says something that he couldn’t even beat Dee Brown for the Left Field spot so they stuck him at DH. I mean, yeah, his numbers are good, but unless I’ve seen a player play extensively I take good numbers with a grain of salt unless they’ve played for a contender. I don’t want another Bobby Abreu, good-numbers-but-missing something type.

And then keep in mind the late innings. With a lineup of Utley/Howard/Ibanez, a manager can just stay with one LH reliever. With a lineup of Utley/Howard/Burrell, they at least brought in a RH reliever to face Burrell. Because here’s how the lineup would stack up if they signed Ibanez.

(S) Jimmy Rollins
(S) Shane Victorino
(L) Chase Utley
(L) Ryan Howard
(L) Raul Ibanez
(R) Jason Werth
(R) Pedro Feliz
(R) Carlos Ruiz.

Basically they way that stacks up is you can use ONE pitcher for the 3-5 spots and ONE pitcher for the 6-8 spots. Yes there was still a string of RH batters at the bottom of the lineup last year, but at least you could pinch hit with Dobbs, Coste, or Jenkins and not worry about having to take one of your few good RH batters out of the lineup. And I am absolutely not comfortable with signing Ibanez because that gives us almost no lineup flexibility. I mean, it’s one thing if you could guarantee me that Werth would hit .300 as a full-time starter from the 5-spot. Then I’d be more comfortable with Ibanez. But you can’t guarantee that and until I see it, I’m really not comfortable with Ibanez. As it is, I think Werth is better suited for the 6th slot because he has both the RBI power to drive in the 3 through 5 guys and the speed to create a little havoc on his own on the off chance that the guys at the bottom can get hits. And I’m not the only one who thinks that; he’s batted, 2nd and 6th most frequently in his career.

amaro made it clear manny is not an option and the team has no interest in making him an offer so he doesnt enter the equation at all…yankees have made it clear that they will pay what it takes to fill their starting rotation and will overpay for lowe and burnett so phils arent getting them…..sheets could be an option but 2years/30mill…semms a bit much for an injury plagued guy…LF is a position of need for this team…ibanez is clearly the best option in my opinion. spending the entire offseason budget on a pitcher that will cost 5yrs/80 to get is crazy to me

The lineup concerns with Ibanez are legit, no matter how well he may hit lefties. There are lefties like Moyer and there are lefties like David Price in the late innings. But I’ve heard his make-up is very strong, very professional, not a look-at-me guy, he’s good in the clubhouse, not an Abreu type at all. Apparently Gillick is a big fan. And I think his production on a terrible Mariners team is a good sign. Not a lot of talent around him, no protection in that lineup, played every day on a really bad team, stayed focused, kept producing runs (had a torrid August .396). I think those are positives. But it’s a shame he’s not a righty. What’s hard to trust is what took this guy so long to get good? He’s the Moyer of hitting, can he keep it going?

Interesting take Mike B — are there other players you’ve noticed that only play well on bad teams? I guess there are players that can’t handle New York. It’s been reported that Ibanez wants to play here, for what it’s worth.

I don’t know Memphis. I’d have to think. See, I might be wrong. Lou Pinella was his manager in Seattle, and from what I’ve gathered, he really prefers his veterans over unproven guys. Sometimes guys just don’t fit in somewhere. And the 2007 season (Mariners were 88-74) complicates my argument, although I’m not sure if they just got hot at the end or what. And I also get a bad gut feeling from Ibanez going to New York, if only because that means the Mets won’t be resorting to the Cliff Floyds of the world.

But…good question. Players who only play well on bad teams. I’m not thinking about short stints but whole seasons. Richie Sexson – when given the chance to play extensively with the Indians, he blew it, but prospered in Milwaulkee. Then, signed to Seattle with high expectations, he sucked. So maybe it’s not the team as it is the expectations. And God knows we’ve seen that with the Kevin Millwoods and David Bells of the world.

Some negative vibes on Ibanez’s defense:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/12/03/bp.marinersgm/index.html

Yeah I think what I read was that he has trouble adjusting to fly balls

http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/mlb/players/Raul_Ibanez/

Hey hey not all of us like Ibanez. Mike thanks for talking sense tonight. Except the Feliz comparison is unfair because Feliz actually plays good defense, and by all accounts Ibanez does not. Let’s go with David Bell 2.0, except a lefty version. Because this smells exactly like a David Bell signing – a reasonably known name who’s signed to garner excitement and will fill a hole left by a departing star (in Bell’s case, Scott Rolen), even if said player really doesn’t fit our team. (Two corner infielders (Thome and Bell) who couldn’t play defense? Really Eddie?) The 2003 Phillies? Only two lefties and one switch hitter in their everyday lineup (pre-Utley).

My God, it’s Fast Eddie Wade all over again.

The Pat the Bat era is over. I’m struggling coming to grips with that.

(single tear)

I like this deal. it’s a little more than you’d like to pay, you never like giving up your first rounder unless your landing someone flashy but it sends a good message. Ibanez isn’t flashy but he plays the game with the right attitude and will make the players around him better and that’s why I tip my hat to Amaro on this one.

My new line up with Ibanez in it.

Victorino
Utley
Rollins
Howard
Werth
Ibanez
Feliz
Ruiz
pitcher

My only fear of this line up is the lack of speed and contact in the back of the line up, but you have to do a good job of seperating the lefties and righties. Maybe that above line up can be the line up against lefties. Against Righties it can be this.

Victorino
Utley
Rollins
Howard
Ibanez
Werth
Feliz
Ruiz
Pitcher