Phillies Sign Raul Ibanez
Posted by Brian Michael, Fri, December 12, 2008 01:19 PM | Comments: 318
Posts
The Phillies and Raul Ibanez agreed to a 3-year, $30 million contract.
Ibanez, 36, is a career .286 hitter with 182 HR and 794 RBI. Last year with the Mariners, Ibanez hit .293 with 23 HR and 110 RBI. He recorded a .358 on-base percentage and .479 slugging percentage. By comparison, Pat Burrell recorded a .367 OBP and .507 SLG last season.
Since Ibanez was a Type A free agent and was offered arbitration, the Phillies will forfeit their first-round draft pick in 2009 to the Mariners.
Tim’s Thoughts: It’s almost absolutely certain the end of Pat Burrell’s tenure as a Phillie. His nine-year run as left fielder was largely successful; now the Phillies bring in a player of slightly lesser offensive caliber. The difference between Burrell and Ibanez defensively is almost non-existent — Ibanez isn’t that good. So overall, the Phillies gave three years to a player worse than Burrell, but for probably $16M fewer than what Burrell wanted.
Basically, this deal will be determined on those $16 million. Do I think Ibanez will perform his worth — based on the discrepancy between monetary figures — in these three years? Judging his durability (at least 480 at bats the last seven seasons) and prowess against left-handed pitching in 2008 (.305/.368/.497), I do think he’ll adequately fill his spot. Not wonderfully. But adequately (and frankly, adequate is fine in left field).
To me, the largest issue to fret is how the Phillies will now spend money. Do they have enough to still grab Derek Lowe? Do they think the best additions are smaller, value-style additions (such as Chan Ho Park)? Will they make a trade to bring in something larger? Ibanez took a chunk out of the offseason budget, and while he fills the hole adequately, he goes a long way in determining the remainder of the offseason.
Posts: 0 Fran
I like this move. Cheaper. Faster. Also a solid player
Posted: 01:22 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Manny
“Likely closes the door” for Pat…?
The door has been shut.
Goodbye Pat!
Posted: 01:23 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
I don’t like this move. Older, left-handed, expensive and costs us draft picks.
How is it that the Mets can take advantage of a flooded relief pitching market and only have to offer a 27 year old K-Rod 3 years, but we can’t take advantage of a flooded corner outfield market (Burrell, Ibanez, Manny, Abrue, Dunn) and have to give a 37 year old 3 years? He’ll be 40 by the end of the contract, how is this smart?
Posted: 01:24 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 phillies phan
We want manny!!!!! Any chances we still get him???
Posted: 01:27 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Manny
That last year of the Ibañez deal could cost us, Griffin… but K-Rod will pitch 1 inning when there’s a save situation, and Ibañez will play nearly every single game.
Two years for Ibañez would’ve been a fantastic deal. But if it’s three, then it’s OK if we’re bringing a guy like him: consistent, in great shape, underrated, and a good presence overall in the clubhouse.
Posted: 01:28 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Because Ibanez is a pro who plays smart and hits lefties as well anyone, not tendering Burrell will hurt but it was obviously too much of a risk. The Phils have talent and now Amaro’s looking to add character to get more out of that talent, Ibanez influence should make the guys around him better if their willing.
Posted: 01:29 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
There’s likely another move waiting in the wings, trading either Jenkins or Stairs. There’s just no need for 3 left handed outfielders, odd man out would seem to be Jenkins since Stairs is the perfect guy you’d want to come up in a pinch as we saw in Los Angeles.
Posted: 01:29 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 mw
“Faster”??
2008: 2 SB
2007: 0 SB
2006: 2 SB
2005: 9 SB
2004: 1 SB
etc.
Posted: 01:29 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Georgie
I am officially in mourning now, 3 yrs for a guy 37, it’s a slap in the face to Pat, I can’t believe this is happening!
BTW, it’s really ugly on here today, between that and losing Pat, I have to take a LOOONNGGG break from the Nation. Later.
Posted: 01:29 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Drewdacri$
Not thrilled with this move. I would have rather spent the 30 mil on pitching. And a 3 year deal for a 36 yr old??? Will he be worth 10 mil when hes 39? And another lefty? Now there is no way to break up Utley and Howard unless you bat Chase 2nd. And if you’re not going to do that then you’d have to bat Werth 5th and Ibanez 6th in order not to have 3 straight lefties. And I know Ibanez hit lefties better than righties but that’s not how its been for his career.
Posted: 01:30 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 NJ
Faster isn’t basestealing… It’s not a flashy deal but when you really look at it it’s a smart deal.
Posted: 01:32 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Brian
Not sure why most don’t like this deal. Not much out there on the free agent market (that the FO would actually pay for), and we pretty knew Pat wasn’t coming back (asking for a lot of $). I will miss Pat, but it’s time to move on. If he really wanted to stay in Philly, he would have been more flexible from the start regarding years and salary. Ibanez isn’t a bad move.
Justin, I agree – probably another move out there involving one of those guys.
Posted: 01:33 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Robbi P
The last time that we got a player that avg around 30 hrs and 100 rbi’s was a man named Pedro Feliz and I don’t think we need a stellar defensive LF. Here’s hoping the this is the forerunner to the Phillies signing Lowe.
And just to say this for laughs, It doesn’t matter the lineup when we play the Mets since Putz and K-Rod are righties so in effect Amaro is prepping us for those 7-9 innings against the Mets haha!
Posted: 01:35 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
Hey guys,
I’m not minding this move. I’ll have more on it later. Brian helped me here — the one day I decide to move the Phillies actually make news.
Robbi, BTW, Pedro has NEVER hit 30 HR OR 100 RBI.
Posted: 01:38 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Gavin
Although I prefer to have Pat back, I think this move is a good move and he will be a good fit. Ibanez is a professional hitter. He won’t drive us crazy like PB did.
There were times when I loved PB and times when I hated him. I didnt think he cared. The last 2 years showed me that he did. He deserves to be on the wall of fame in Ashburn Ally someday.
Good Luck Pat and thanks for alot of great years. You could have given up or never recovered from that one terrible year but you didn’t.
Posted: 01:38 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
God it’s funny how much crying they’re doing on metsblog.com about how they wanted him and that he’s so much better than tatis. And they’re still crying because their own players can’t answer the challenge that hamels put to them by calling them choke artists. Ultimately they’re paying us the highest compliment as they’re saying the Phils are a grittier team than they are.
Posted: 01:39 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Johnny Fire
I like the move. $10 mil a year is much lower than what Burrell was asking for. Also, Ibanez is a good solid pro who will thrive at the bank – 25-30 hrs, 110 rbis and he’ll hit .300. I’m sad to see Burrell go, but we have a good replacement. also, Pedro Feliz was NEVER a 30 hr, 100 rbi man. more like 20 and 80 to go with a .250 average. You can’t compare Feliz and Ibanez.
Posted: 01:40 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
Another thing i forgot is that for 82 games a year Ibanez was playing at pitcher friendly Safeco Field so he’s going to add at least 5 HRs to that total which should help his numbers. Probably why he wanted to come here.
Posted: 01:42 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Robbi P
Good Point Tim, my bad, I guess I was dreaming when I heard that!
Posted: 01:43 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
I’d like this better if it were a 2 year deal.
I will give Ibanez credit for being consistent. For the last 8 years, his OBP has been between .345 and .358.
Burrell’s OBP has been lower than .359 only twice in the last nine years (.346 in ’01 and .309 in ’03)
So Burrell gets on base more, hits lefties better, plays equally crappy defense, and is five years younger. I’m not a huge Burrell fan, but these are the facts.
Posted: 01:45 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
For $30 M .. you could get 3 years of Ibanez, who is a better hitter overall than Burrell.
or 2 years of Pat Burrell, who hits more HRs, but also gets replaced late in games for his lack of defensive ability.
I’ll the better hitter for the 3 years.
Posted: 01:45 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Malcolm
Good luck Pat the Bat! You were a class act and our Mets killer. You will always be remembered as a Phillie, and I, for one, will cheer for you throughout the remainder of your career. You’re a champion. Go play for the Rays, brother. I’m having a beer for breakfast today, so, cheers Pat Burrell. And hello, Ibanez.
I like this signing financially. The draft pick..? Well, we would have to give it up if we signed Lowe. I’d rather give our first round pick to Seattle, and if we sign Lowe, give that second round pick to L.A.
I’ve watched Ibanez play over the years. This is a good pick-up for us. He’s a good player. I wouldn’t worry about the overabundance of lefties in the lineup. When Marson breaks in, he’ll be a good RHB- and one of the benefits of Jimmy Rollins is that he can bat pretty much anywhere in the order. I think we might see Shane at leadoff, and Utley in the two-spot a little more often. I also think that Werth will jump around in the order a lot.
As for Lowe, I’d still like to see him come here. We all keep seeing various reports that the Phillies ARE or AREN’T interested. Derek Lowe wants to play for a contender, and we’re the champions. He’d be our #2. In NY, he’d be a #4 or #5. I can’t see the Phillies singing a starting pitcher other than Moyer or Lowe right now. Saying that signing Ibanez and Lowe makes/would make our team significantly older is clearly unfair as well. We had Jamie and Adam Eaton pitching last year, how does that make us an older team than last year? Also this is also a go-for-the-gold decision, a here and now direction for the team. I dig it, it’s what they need to do the season after winning it all.
Please Pat– don’t sign with the Mets.
Posted: 01:46 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
Good points malcolm, is that how it will work with Ibanez and the possibility of signing Lowe? Would we give up a 2nd and a sandwich pick for Lowe?
Posted: 01:50 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 reddeath
The guy is a career .280 hitter, .260 againest lefties, .305 with risp, has over a 100 rbi’s the last three years batting in the three hole, and from all accounts is a highly motivated clubhouse guy. I read somewhere a scout said he is in as good of shape as some 25 year olds. I think he is a good stopgap because most of our outfielders in minors won’t be ready for another 2-3 years. Also I’m sure Gillick and Looper know what there getting here since they’re all from Seattle. I would’t be concerned with the loss of a first round draft pick. The draft is suppose to be pretty weak this year at the top, so they’ll just have to spend that 1st round money on later picks.
Posted: 01:50 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
By the way, Ibanez’s career splits:
vs. RHP .293 BA, .355 OBP, .494 SLG
vs. LHP .268 BA, .322 OBP, .411 SLG
So he’s not a better hitter against LHP.
Posted: 01:50 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 john of Albuquerque
In a nutshell — Ibanez is too old for a three-year, $30 mil contract. Even though he is famous for his excellent conditioning, it is too much money for too long. Amaro is not impressing me. Any chance of bringing back Arbuckle?
Posted: 01:51 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
Bill James’s fielding Bible rated Burrell the 2nd worst LF and Ibanez the 3rd worst LF.
Posted: 01:53 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Grrrumpy Miner
Wow,the Phils sign an aging player and yet Hispanic too? Wow Ruben Amaro Jr must’ve had the leftover Kool-Aid Omar Minaya was drinking the last few years.This deal is a BIG slap in the face to Pat Burrell and the Phillies Phans.Pat Burrell was the perrinial Met killer and I always hated him for that,but he WAS the Phillies.Big mistake Ruben,BIG mistake.
Posted: 01:55 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
so according to Bill James, we definitely improved our defense with the move.. which is nice
Posted: 02:00 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
haha, true Don M, we’ve improved a spot!
Seriously though, who is going to caddie for Ibanez defensively? I guess they’ll go to arbitration with Bruntlett and he’ll be out there late in games again.
Posted: 02:03 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
338 rbi’s over the last 3 yrs which is 2nd to only Magglio Ordonez and just ahead of Vlad Guerrero. Good news for the phils…
Posted: 02:04 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 psujoe
Griffin, Ibanez hits lefties better than Burrell. Ibanez batted over .300 agsint left handed pitching. Neither guy actually has much power against lefties. Amazing how most of Burrell’s power is against righties. The Phillies offerred Burrell more money and one less year and he declined. How is Ibanez in the field?
Posted: 02:04 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 psujoe
Yikes, just read about Ibanez in the field. yikes.
Posted: 02:07 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Brett
So Griffin, you’re saying this is an upgrade?
This is a great move. He’s a terriffic offensive player and there’s no way he could be slower than Burrell, who was running on one bad foot when he was here. Pat was a great player and arguably the heart of this team, but it’s time for him to move on.
I would have liked to see him pass Del Ennis on the all time Phillie home runs list though…
Posted: 02:09 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 T Marty
at least Rueben did something, i was starting to call him Rueben Stutter. definitely like Ibanez’s higher average. will miss Pat, but if we still get 30hr 100 rbi for the next three years, all is well.
Now let’s address the pitching…
Posted: 02:09 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
vs. LHP
Burrell: .276 BA, .410 OBP, .540 SLG
Ibanez: .268 BA, .322 OBP, .411 SLG
Burrell is much, much better than Ibanez versus LHP.
Posted: 02:10 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
I’m saying that Pat Burrell is a better hitter than Raul Ibanez. They are both terrible fielders and neither are fast. Burrell has much better career numbers against LHP and therefore is the much better fit for the Phillies. Burrell is also 5 years younger.
The more research I do about Ibanez, the less I like him. Look at those numbers compared to Burrell’s, it’s not even close against LHP!!
Posted: 02:12 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike
what the hell i hope you guys a enjoy a lineup a 3straight lefties wtf O_O this is just a horrible move the guy is 36 how long do u expect him to last omg at 10million a year and you couldnt do this for pat what the hell!!!
Posted: 02:14 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Greg
NOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
BRING BACK PAT! BRING BACK PAT! BRING BACK MOYER! BRING BACK MOYER!
What in God’s name do we need another left handed bat that can’t hit LHP for? if this move is to replace Jenkins, then fine, good move
But, Burrell?!! Give me a break. Amaro can kiss my ass.
Posted: 02:15 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike
This guy isn’t better with D his lack of a arm and hes 36 so his speed is limited at best and he has problems with flyballs gosh this guy is worser in left field like chris coste this is why he was a DH at somepoint in his life.!
Posted: 02:16 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike
Haven’t we learned our lesson named 1 player that gillick signed that was good that made over 5million per year. THEY ALL SUCK the one that came thru a trade was Brad Lidge so gillick finds the players for cheap but when he spends money he is EPIC FIALURE!!!
Posted: 02:17 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 RichieAllen
How many times has Ibanez hit 30 home runs and/or hit .300 ?I know he had mucho Rbi’s but also …Is he prone to strikeouts?
Posted: 02:20 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Matt W
Seeing is believing
http://i27.tinypic.com/28akex2.jpg
Posted: 02:21 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
He does not strike out as often as Burrell, but he does not walk as much as Pat.
Posted: 02:22 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 reddeath
Griffin you should call the phillies up and ask them to fire Ruben and hired you as GM. You obviously have tons of experience, and know so much more about the game. I’m sure they would be priviledged to take you on to stucture the next world champion team.
P.S. Dude seriously. It seems like you want them to fail with every move they make. I think they have been doing this a lot longer then you. Sure not every move is going to be a homerun, but have a little faith sometime.
Posted: 02:25 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 TheDipsy
When Pat Burrell signs for 2y/17m I’m gonna be very upset we did this.
Posted: 02:26 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 TheDipsy
Right now, think Al Oliver.
Posted: 02:28 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Griffin
reddeath, I’m just posting facts. I didn’t know a ton about Ibanez until I looked up facts. I never said that Ruben was incompetent or that I know more that him. At the same time, aren’t we allowed to discuss the moves and debate them in a blog?
Maybe I disagreed with a point you have made in the past or something, but you seem to have taken it personally. Accusing me of wanting the Phillies to fail just because I don’t salivate over ever single front office decision they make is just silly.
I have never said that the Phillies are cheap and/or don’t know what they are doing. It’s a blog, I’m just offering my opinion.
Posted: 02:29 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I’m starting to think about all the Mets fans saying this is a bad move… because if of all the fans in MLB, Mets fans probably know the most about terrible signings since they see a few every year!
Posted: 02:34 PM on December 12, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike B.
I miss Pat. I agree with Malcolm, he’ll be one of those guys who may have gone but who you’ll always think of as a Phillie, like Lieberthal, Pratt, Wolf, and Glanville.
The good side – the Mets didn’t sign him. But if THAT’S what motivated our signing Ibanez, then that was a really dumb move, Ruben. You can’t worry about what other teams might do, you’ve gotta work on improving. Hopefully that was the main consideration, but if we signed him just so the Mets wouldn’t get him…bad idea.
The bad side – well-documented above. I’ve also been worried that he’s one of those guys who doesn’t play well for contenders, although Seattle was kind of in contention in 2007 (88-74). But he didn’t even play 100 games until he went to the Royals in 2001 – and in 2000 he couldn’t beat out a 41 year old Rickey Henderson and two 36-year olds to play in the corner outfield. He didn’t hit higher than .260 until he went to KC – he hit .228 in 2000 in Seattle, and that was the year they lost to the Yanks in the ALCS. I might be wrong, but he may be one of those guys who shrinks when they go to a contender.
I say, sign a RH OF like Gabe Kapler – a platoon guy who’s good at defense and can hit lefties.
Is anyone here old enough to remember Luzinski? I’m not, but he sounds like what I’ve heard about Luzinski.
Posted: 02:41 PM on December 12, 2008