Phillies Sign Raul Ibanez
Posted by Brian Michael, Fri, December 12, 2008 01:19 PM | Comments: 318
Posts
The Phillies and Raul Ibanez agreed to a 3-year, $30 million contract.
Ibanez, 36, is a career .286 hitter with 182 HR and 794 RBI. Last year with the Mariners, Ibanez hit .293 with 23 HR and 110 RBI. He recorded a .358 on-base percentage and .479 slugging percentage. By comparison, Pat Burrell recorded a .367 OBP and .507 SLG last season.
Since Ibanez was a Type A free agent and was offered arbitration, the Phillies will forfeit their first-round draft pick in 2009 to the Mariners.
Tim’s Thoughts: It’s almost absolutely certain the end of Pat Burrell’s tenure as a Phillie. His nine-year run as left fielder was largely successful; now the Phillies bring in a player of slightly lesser offensive caliber. The difference between Burrell and Ibanez defensively is almost non-existent — Ibanez isn’t that good. So overall, the Phillies gave three years to a player worse than Burrell, but for probably $16M fewer than what Burrell wanted.
Basically, this deal will be determined on those $16 million. Do I think Ibanez will perform his worth — based on the discrepancy between monetary figures — in these three years? Judging his durability (at least 480 at bats the last seven seasons) and prowess against left-handed pitching in 2008 (.305/.368/.497), I do think he’ll adequately fill his spot. Not wonderfully. But adequately (and frankly, adequate is fine in left field).
To me, the largest issue to fret is how the Phillies will now spend money. Do they have enough to still grab Derek Lowe? Do they think the best additions are smaller, value-style additions (such as Chan Ho Park)? Will they make a trade to bring in something larger? Ibanez took a chunk out of the offseason budget, and while he fills the hole adequately, he goes a long way in determining the remainder of the offseason.
Posts: 0 mike mike
I am so tired of hearing the talk about burrell getting 16 million. he turn down two year 22 offer. I swear this is the biggest bull shit I ever heard. you all sound like the phillies propaganda dept. spreading a rumor to make today signing sound good. Where is this bullshit coming from he made 14 million last year overpayed and he will learn this year there will be less. Don’t try to justified this signing based on a bad story of 16 million. today we sign a bad leftfielder who only hit one year of over 300 against lefthander pitching. he can’t throw and is 36 he struck out 110 times yet he is a contact hitter. this makes no sense. Just say the truth we took a cheaper player who will cost us a first round draft choice. becasue we paniced and didn’t wait to see what would develop since the corner outfield market is loaded with option.
Posted: 12:20 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Kirk
Goodbye Pat, don’t let the door hit you on the a z z. Finally. Anybody but Pat. Such a rally killer. Jumps back on pitches right down the middle. Ran with a piano on his back. Thank you g o d , it’s over!
Posted: 12:32 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Dan S
This is the end of the Burrell era in Philadelphia, but Ibanez is more consistent. Although his power numbers are not as good as Burrell’s, for $16 million less it is a great deal. Keep in mind the Phils have to save up money for Howard, Hamels, possibly Werth and Victorino all in arbitration.
Posted: 12:37 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Dan S
The phillies can’t get Moyer and Lowe. I’m sure your tired of hear this, because I know I am, but they cost too much.
Posted: 12:39 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 jim
the mets are still better than us
Posted: 12:41 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 jim
phuck the phillies
Posted: 12:42 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 mike mike
Tim where are they getting this 16 less theory. Tim so far I have been on a lot of sites, but I know you have a lot of outlets to find information, It seems to me not one of the people who follow baseball like this move, law neyer, stark. all are puzzled why they wanted this guy, the only positive person who wanted this guy was the angels manager. but he could dh him we can/t have you found anyone in the media or scouts who likes the move.
Posted: 12:59 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Jason B
I will admit I was opposed to this trade, but after digesting the nmbers a little, I like the trade the more I think about it. First of all, Ibanez hit .305 off of lefties last season. Burrell, who should hit lefties, only batted .279. Ibanez has 24 more r.b.i.’s, hit 43 points higher in average, hit 10 more doubles, had 30 more total bases, and scored 11 more runs. Now, Burrell had more walks and a better OBP.However, the most telling stat is this, Ibanez has 26 less K’s than burrell and in a K heavy line up, any time you can reduce your K’s, good things are bound to happen. Speed wise, the two are a push as they are defensively. But over all, for Reuben’s first aqusition, I have to say, we got a little better. Not too shabby.
Posted: 01:09 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 mike mike
Jason he had almost 100 more at bats than burrell . take away last year against lefthanders and what is his numbers. Look I never seen this guy but ever writer so far is wondering what the phillies were doing signing this guy. we need a starter more reliable than meyers or blanton. A number 2 to follow Hamels. stopping runs is important.
Posted: 01:15 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Phillies Phan SC
I watched the Mariners last year a little (MLB Extra Innings) because they were the late games and I love baseball. I still think it was a one for one swap that we saved money on. You could argue numbers, but honesty, it just depended on the day. Baseball stats only tell part of the picture. In the second hald Ibanez was much better than Burrell, and you MUST consider the Mariners sucked. Those numbers on a team that lost over 100 is pretty darned good. We shall see.
Posted: 01:26 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 metsblow4show
I heard a report tonight that the Rays offered Burrell a 3yr/30 M deal, the same as Ibanez. I told you earlier Don, that Pat wasn’t going to get over 12M from anyone and there’s a 10M a year offer. The agents are starting to realize that they over-valued some of their clients, especially the outfielders.
Posted: 01:30 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
Any ideas who the Phils will non-tender? Jonny Gomes and Takashi Saito are non-tendered and seem like interesting players of interest.
Posted: 02:06 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
Jonny Gomes was non tendered….I say we sign him….RH OF with pop and intensity….i’m kinda biased though i really like this guy….and he’ll run through walls for his team….. then trade jenkins or stairs (even though i really like stairs) for a back end starter…..and if you trade jenkins, you prolly free up some cash to try to sign another starter like lowe or moyer or sheets if he’s healthy….Sorry everyone i’m tired and my mind’s goin like a mile a minute..go phils!!!!!
Posted: 02:10 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
interesting players of interest?????
Posted: 02:12 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
sorry justin……i like the way you think though
Posted: 02:12 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
Maybe sign Tim Redding???….that saves us a couple of losses a year…..b/c he always shoves against us…..just another late night thought Go PHILS!!!
Hamels, myers, moyer, REDDING, blanton……with happ, carrasco, kendrick as insurance/trade bait…..where do i sign up for world series tickets?
Posted: 02:16 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Robbi P
Right now the Phillies need to sign a starter. I want Lowe or Sheets. Resigning Moyer, which apparently is gaining a lil momentum, is going well too but you can’t have too much pitching. Amaro should now focus solely on Lowe. The Mets needed a bullpen, they go it done. We need pitching and we are floundering.
I honestly just want them to sign someone for pitching a la Chan Ho Park.
But I know whats going to happen, you guys are going to get on me for emulating the Mets but I think we need some action now that OF is set starter wise.
Maybe Amaro is smarter than we all think. Sign Raul and then trade Coste and Jenkins, Stairs for a pitcher. That might be a likely scenario!
Posted: 02:17 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 mike mike
I heard the rays were offering one year at 8-10.
Posted: 02:29 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
redding is going to colorado…they tried to trade for him during the meeting but waited the nationals out…the nats had to use the bailout money to offer tex that contract..so theyve gotta cut corners elsewhere.
this team got exactly the contact rbi-first hitter they needed in ibanez and youre all mad about it because hes not flashy or hes left handed..ridiculous..this is a good signing..
they still need a starter…im leery about th emoyer thing.,..hes asking for too muich money…
id im going to watch them take a risk..take a risk on a two year deal for ben sheets with a third year option based on appearances/starts.
Posted: 02:34 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
unless lowe drops his price hes not worth all of that money so forget about him..
Posted: 02:35 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
Push hard for Sheets
Posted: 02:37 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
non tenders: daniel cabrera (NO, he already sucks…he throws a sinker that doesnt sink, a cutter that doesnt cut, and a slider that doesnt slide)…hell last one start at CBP…britton could compete for a bullpen spot in spring training…willy taveras cant hit or get on base..gomes actually is a good idea, id bring him in cheaply and move back on to pitching..
Posted: 02:38 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
i mean a two year 26mm deal with a 3rd year option of 16mm..why not? i mean, if hes healthy hes WAY better than lowe…if hes healthy…i view moyer as an equal risk because of his age…
Posted: 02:39 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
norris hopper is another outfield option i like i think he’s either a switch hitter or a straight righty…plays all 3 outfield positions good, kinda in the mold of a willie harris, speedster type, good for the bench to add speed.
Posted: 03:05 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 mike mike
Unfortunely lowe is just getting what the market is paying. And by the time the other teams sign corner outfields this will be ever a worst signing. unless they can bring in a guy like atkins or a healty lowe then it makes more sense but a three year committment to a bad fielding lefthand hitter to replace pat is nuts. one year he hit at 305 against left hander the rest of the time under 250. he has no speed no arm but he is cheaper than the others. so that makes it a good signing. Geoff oh I am sorry mr giles you are nuts. please use you real name bill.
Posted: 03:08 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
dude..garret atkins sucks…look im wanting them to get another starting pitcher…i just happen to know that free agency isnt the way to go…you play the contract game in baseball…the money is guaranteed…if they tank out youre stuck with the money…lowe isnt worth it…even moyer isnt worth it with what he asked for…if youre going to take a risk, take a risk on ben sheets…
when will you understand..all last season we asked for a contact hitter that drives in runs and doesnt strike out too much = raul ibanez…NOT burrell..not bradley or atkins…
Posted: 03:25 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
thats the whole point..free agency is a RIP OFF……raul ibanez is a great signing, BUT even hes too expensive for that age…AND you have to give up a first round pick…
trades, farm ssytem internal development, and plug the gaps in with free agents who are affordable..thats how EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN MLB except the yankees, red sox, cubs, and angels go about doing this. even the mets arent that bad..and every other team in baseball has had more success IN THE MODERN non-steroidal era than these big money teams…
the red sox at least devcelop their own players with a GREAT farm system….
Posted: 03:31 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
norris hopper is a bit TOO scrap heap…you gotta at least have some right handed pop…
Posted: 03:32 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Memphis
mike mike — you may be the most consistent opposition to Ibanez. What would have been your preference in LF?
Ibanez isn’t my favorite signing (I would have gone for Holliday or Man Ram, or maybe looked to trade for Hermida), but he’s a good player, very similar to Burrell in a lot of ways. Burrell had a terrible second half last year, abysmal, and I think Ibanez’s risk of decline is actually less than Burrell’s, but that’s debatable. I didn’t want to see Burrell back, but the pickins are slim. I’d like to see this guy play before I pass judgment.
I’m with you in that the priority should be pitching. I want Lowe or Sheets in Philly.
Posted: 03:41 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 mike mike
Geoff the red sox spend a ton in player development. they last year alone went 138 % over slot in there signing. over ten million dollars spend. three million alone on there first pick when the slot number was much lower, I believe that it will change and only a handful of teams will be able to be in the playoff year after year.the teams like the pirates kc have no chance, they have to go to a salary cap and get rid of that ass boras. He is the most arrogrant agent in baseball. he cares nothing about the state of the game. the creep. how much is enough.by the 110 strikes is not a contact hitters type numbers.
Posted: 03:44 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
I agree that the phillies could and should sp4end more in teh draft…thats for sure…
i agree though, scott boras is too good of an agent..total greedy piece of trash…
anyways, baseball DEFEINITELY needs a salary cap…the league might have to bottom out again though for that to ever happen…
you like the nhl? the nhl is THE most competitive pro sport now…rarely do you see unwatchable blowouts…very very entertaining and top quality competition. because they made the players give back 25 percent of their salaries and instituted a salary cap..
Posted: 03:48 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 mike mike
Memphis when you don’t know a player like ibanez, which I didn’t you try to find out from people who cover the sport in other words research all opinion. I have been reading writer after writer neyer, stark, law, phillips, and some seattle people and only one person likes the guy the angels manager. If we needed a lefthanded leftfielder yes maybe but another outfieldr who can field run or throw and can;t protect howard in the lineup scares me.especially knowing how Werth has trouble against right handed pitchers.
Posted: 03:51 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Memphis
More people than just the Angels manager like him. I’ve read Mariner fans that like him, Tim Kurkjian gushed over him on ESPN. The Mets were in on him. Cubs as well, I think. The Mariners said they would have liked him back, even in rebuilding mode. Neyer just said basically he is no better than Burrell. Law said basically the same thing, but in his own cranky ass way. (I don’t think he likes Burrell much either.) Ibanez is not universally disliked, not even close. Yahoo Sports ranked him 16th among the most attractive FAs (all positions); some dude on SI.com ranked him 17th and said “a move to Citizens Bank Park will only improve his numbers.” He was 5th in the AL in RBIs last year, 7th in doubles. He has supporters and detractors, just like Burrell, Dunn, Bradley, Man Ram, Holliday….
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/392004_mari13.html
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/archives/156834.asp
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/baseball/390210_mari02.html
I completely agree with you in that we’d IDEALLY get someone right-handed, who can protect Howard, is good in the field, can run, etc. For me, Holliday and Man Ram topped that list, and I’m of the mind to just go for it with the current core. Question is — for you, who are putting in LF? You be the GM. I’m just curious. It’s not easy.
Posted: 04:44 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Shimmy Rollins
cmon, lets all call a spade a spade–this is a cheap replacement for burrell. Sure, you’ll save around $15mil, and get a little more consistency at the plate, but you lose out on overall power numbers. You can make the case that Ibanez and Burrel are about an equal trade offensively, at a cheaper price–but in my opinion, this deal blows because Burrell is 32 and Ibanez going on 37. Thats a big difference in baseball years.
Plus, we all know Pat will go somewhere else and hit .325 with 40 HR next season and be the free agent signing of the decade, LOL. The guy has the talent to put up a .300 35+ HR season, he just never seemed to be motivated in Philly—even down the stretch this year as his batting average fell from .280 to .250 despite the phils success.
But, from a GM standpoint, I’m not sure what else we could’ve done. I do believe the phils will make a move for another starter–I’m hoping its Lowe, but I doubt they can afford him after this, without trading away some salary. But without this move, you’re looking at Genkins or Bruntlett becoming an everyday player?? And the FA market for outfielders this year is very top heavy–with Manny, Dunn, Abreu, Burrell and Ibanez. After those guys, its a pretty steep dropoff. I was certain we wouldn’t sign Dunn because he’s a lefty, and he probably will get more than Burrell ends up getting. And lets face it, guys whose motivation is a question (ie manny, abreu) never become philly fan favorites or last too long….we really appreciate the gritty blue collar guys more than the hot dogs, dont we? Again, not sayin Ibanez is a good deal, personally I would’ve passed. BUt I understand the rationale and motivation for making the move.
Where does Burrell land? Everyone here seems to think theres no way he still ends up in Philly….I dont think thats 100% etched in stone. Werth and a bench player could be packaged in a deal for a starter, clearing up some room for Burrell. And Ibanez could play right, or Burrell could move. Do I think its likely? No, but I won’t rule it out.
If he goes, the Mets aren’t in the hunt, I dont care what the rumors say. The mets aren’t in the market for offense this offseason, they’re plenty happy with the core of offense they have, and the young outfielders like Daniel Murphy and Nick Evans that they can barely even force onto the field yet. Plus Church, Beltran, I see no way they need a guy like Burrell. They already have their “burrell” in carlos delgado, your .260 hitter with consistent 30-35 HR power. They dont need another one or want one either.
Nobodys talking about it, but I dont see why Burrell couldn’t land in the Bronx? After that? Cubs, Dodgers, then who knows? Plus the guy would be a great DH, so any AL team could take a flyer on him….But again, depending on what other moves the yanks make, I could see him there next season, barring a Manny or Teixeira signing prior.
Now back to Ibanez…it will be interesting to see where Manuel sticks him in the lineup. I dont see any way you take Rollins, Utley or Howard out of the top 4, and there’s no way they’re gonna bat 4 straight lefties/switch hitters at the top of the order. So, unless Rollins moves down to the 2 hole, and Shane leads off, I dont see Ibanez hitting any higher than 6th. Unless Rollins hits 3rd, Utley hits 2nd, and they decide to take their chances with back to back lefties in the 4 and 5 hole. Who knows?? Most likely 6 hole though…which again, begs the question of why spend that kinda money for your 6 hole hitter? Probably coulda signed Lowe for similar money…
ORRRRRR maybe a left handed bat is going somewhere that we don’t know about…hint hint :)
Posted: 06:17 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 ActuallyChilled
Pete: MIlton Bradley, including conflicts (add Utley + Manuel no problem), and … well, maybe you’re right. I’d have to look at the list again. Dunn? Nah. Tex too much. Holliday? If we had played our bait better. Oh well. I think the change could be good, but am surprised at 3 years.
Posted: 08:48 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Stone Groove
We needed a right handed bat with speed, not an old left handed bat without speed. He’s way more steady than Pat, but Pat protected the big lefties when he was hot. I would rather had Rocco Baldelli or just re-sign Pat. WE NEED D-LOWE!!!
Posted: 10:33 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Kevin
Not sure how anyone can say this is not an offensive upgrade. Remember Ibanez’s numbers were put up in Seattle, a notorious “pitchers” park. While I would have perfered a right handed bat @ 5 I’ll take his numbers. He has also been much more consistent than Pat with less strike outs. I’m happy with it. Is age a factor? Sure, but in Left not a lot is asked and he is still hitting the ball.
I think a good move, get us one more starter and lets get this thing Rolling…
Posted: 11:10 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 metsblow4show
You gotta believe that Amaro has another deal coming for a righthanded hitting outfielder for the bench. Right now the only decent righthanded bat on the bench is Coste and there is no guarantee that he is even gonna be here come April.
Posted: 11:29 AM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
Hey Shimmy…you genius. Are you actually floating the concept of trading Werth and somebody else for a starter, putting Ibanez in RIGHT and resigning Burrell? Thats a freakin laugher. Shane Victorino can’t play all three outfield positions at once and with Burrell in left and Ibanez in right you would have the worst fielding outfield in Phils history. Maybe we can bring Greg Luzinski back to play center. Query this please…why can’t Ibanez bat 5? Get used to it because thats exactly where’s he is gonna hit. Actually, you might see him batting 3 until Chase gets back. Utley, Howard, and Ibanez can all hit lefties. Howard used to hit them well until his plate discipline totally broke down. I think you’ll see him hit for higher average this year because now he’s got someone behind him that can drive in runs. Perhaps this will lead to Howards abandoning his penchant for trying t hit the 6 run homer everytime up. I think there is a right handed bat coming and I still think its DeRosa.
The Dipsy
Chairman of the Derek Lowe in Pinstripes Foundation
Posted: 12:06 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Ed
I really feel like Burrell was Amaro’s first choice but when the ability to possibly get someone like D.Lowe came about, then he had to sign a cheaper OF in order to have the money for Lowe. I think Lowe will be a Phillie and its because we went with Ibanez and not Burrell. Park is not a sure thing in the rotation. He is going to be given an invite to spring training. He can also act as a long reliver like Condrey. Since its obvious that Madson is now the set up guy and will no longer be used for multi inning situations.
Posted: 12:36 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
The Phils only non-tendered one player, Scott Mathieson, kind of disappointing since he was considered a top prospect pre-2 tommy john surgeries.
Posted: 12:51 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
they resigned Mathieson to a minor league deal after they non-tendered him didn’t they?
Posted: 01:05 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Derek
I say push hard for Sheets, bring back wolf, sign Gomes (if he comes fairly cheap) and trade Jenkins for a reliever or at least for salary relief
Posted: 01:06 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Bonezy
I still don’t think it is really all that bad of a thing to have a lefty there. It is not written in stone that you HAVE to have a riught handed batter to face a left handed pitcher. they are all Major League Ball players. A pitch is a pitch. no matter if it comes from the right side of the mound or the left.
Posted: 01:06 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 reddeath
yeah
Posted: 01:13 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Ed
You are right, a pitch is a pitch no matter what side of the mound, however how you see the pitch makes all the difference in the world. That is why statistically speaking right handed batters hit left handed pitchers better…they see the ball longer when it is released from the pitchers hand. That is not to say a left hander can’t hit a left hander just that the chances are decreased.
Posted: 01:25 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
Derek you’re right, they did re-sign him after they non-tendered Mathieson.
Posted: 01:31 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 metsblow4show
OMG, get your World Series tickets now…….the Phils resigned Bruntlett !
Posted: 01:37 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Gabriel
the first half of ibanez’s 3 yr deal will be good for us, essentially a wash tho i’m sad to see P the B go… i’m just afraid of the last half of that contract. i agree with a keith law blog i read that said if nothing else, we should’ve at LEAST offered the Bat arbitration. in other words, he would’ve not accepted and we’d have gotten some picks from the team he goes to… so worst case scenario if we offered p the b arb, he would’ve accepted it at around 16-17 mil and we would keep him for another year… something i’m totally okay with. oh well, moving on from here… i just hope this isn’t a sign that ruby amaro jr is the next yes man for our money-hoarding ownership…
Posted: 01:49 PM on December 13, 2008
Posts: 0 Ed
I am not sure if this is a sign that Amaro is another yes man for the owners but everyone knew from the very begining of the Gillick era that Amaro was being groomed to be the next yes man. Sign or not, a yes man is exactly what Amaro is.
Posted: 01:56 PM on December 13, 2008