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Report: Phils Still In Mix For Lowe

Posted by Tim Malcolm, Mon, December 29, 2008 04:13 PM | Comments: 55
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Don’t rule out Derek Lowe, evidently.

Nick Cafardo of the Boston Globe still mentions the Phils as suitors of the right-hander:

Derek Lowe, RHP, free agent – Agent Scott Boras seemed to think Lowe would be the next free agent pitcher to sign. The Mets appear to be the front-runners, but the interest is not necessarily limited to them. The Phillies also appear to be interested in coaxing Lowe to the East, and don’t eliminate the Red Sox, who now have more money to devote to pitching with Teixeira out of the picture.

The Mets seemed extremely close to finalizing a deal for Lowe, but right now things seem somewhat stalled. In fact, Mets General Manager Omar Minaya said nothing was close yet.

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About Tim Malcolm

Tim Malcolm has written 1947 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 scot

    Get Lowe. Do not let the Mets have him.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Would be something if the Phils did land Lowe, don’t get your hopes up though guys.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jason B

    If the Mets get Lowe, it will make it really hard to repeat in the east. Sign him NOW!!!

     
  • Posts: 0 Robert Kreider

    I don’t understand why the Phillies didn’t do this already. This would make Jamie Moyer our #5 starter. It would give our rookies one more year to mature before Moyer retires. Not bad. In a playoff seires you’d run out Hames, Myers, and Lowe. I’d match that up with anyone in the league.

     
  • Posts: 0 Robbi P

    Lets go get this done hopefully the sign em or the Mets don’t I would love to have a sinkerballer on the team especially during spring training since it would probably help Kendrick mature. Lowe is a verteran and Kendrick needs a sinkerballer to compare to and ask questions about. What a rotation though we’d be nasty!

     
  • Posts: 0 Richie Allen

    I’ll even throw in a few bucks if they sign him….It would be tremendous.

     
  • Posts: 0 PSUjoe

    Lowe would be awesome, but this could just be Boras as usual leaking false interst out. I hope not because he’s been the one guy I’ve wanted all off season.

    According to mlbtraderumors.com the Mets are going to put out 3 offers this week to starters. In order, Lowe, Perez and Wolf. they only want 1. Man I hope it’s Perez or Wolf.

     
  • Posts: 0 PSUjoe

    The Dodgers are lookin at Adam Dunn now. I’d laugh my a$$ off if they signed Dunn. Manny would be screwed and Boras with him!

     
  • Posts: 0 Griffin

    oh man, please get Lowe. Seriously, this guy is never hurt, his skills are not declining at all and he’ll put up great numbers in front of the Phils’s stellar infield D.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I hope Dunn goes to the dodgers or nats so that boras ends up blackballing manny through his own arrogance.

    for lowe, if the phillies are in the mix it means one of two things: the price tag has REALLY dropped to 3 years with an option for a fourth maybe for like 14mm on average per season, thats not a terrible contract, but signing lowe means brett myers gets traded. Because they wont trade away happ, why do that? hes a good, cheap 5th starter with potential for more. so if lowe signs, expect myers to be moved out the door…rapidly, to clear payroll space.

    also, this could just be a smokescreen from boras, who ALWAYS likes to have three to four teams in on any given player plus some “mystery team” that always seems to have a better offer….

    id you can get lowe at 3 years and at the price the phillies have set out to get him, then fine. if not though, then dont get too worked up about it…

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    HOWEVER: dont get all mad if he goes to the mets, remember, the phillies knocked lowe around in the playoffs to a reasonable extent..they kind of are already in his head, so hed fit right in with the mets, who cant get the phillies out of their heads…

     
  • Posts: 0 Tyler

    If the dodgers are after dunn… that leaves NO ONE for man ram… i know amaro said he’s happy with ibanez but wouldn’t you all agree 3/51ish is better for man ram than 3/31.5 for a low-power, bad-fielding player.

    Also, on the subject of lowe, we would have him by now if we rly were interested, boras is just making the mets nervous to drive up the price. Would love to see him tho; it would be an insanely dirty lineup

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I dont think thats better at all..first of all, any team that gives manny more than a one year deal is DESPERATE. production is great, but the phillies are not the type of team thats really a good fit for a guy like that. it just wont work…FORGET ABOUT IT. i one hundred percent guarantee that they will not sign manny ramirez. WASTE of money.

    i wouldnt even make an offer. theres nowhere to put him now…no, yorue not trading ryan howard. no, ibanez isnt going anywhere, niether is victorino or werth so, no. NONONO.

     
  • Posts: 0 Greg

    the mets arent the ones with the phillies in their heads..im pretty sure rite after the phils clinched..ur broadcast instead of cheering decided to pick out the mets for NOT winning the WS..then hamels instead of talking to the FAN about winning the WS..decided to go into a rant on the mets..seems like the phillies are obsessed with the mets..also dont think the phillies can get lowe..the mets would outbit them by millions just to make sure they don’t

    also the dodgers are bout 2 sign adam dunne so the makret for manny can end up being cheap with the highest bidder being the mets for a 2 year deal so id get rdy for seeing manny in orange and blue

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    if the mets sign manny it means theyre WAY more desperate than i thought..milton bradley would be a better fit to balance delgados left-handed power, even the lefty dunn would be better than manny in new york in terms of a fit. manny would basically get jerry manuel fired by july…so if you want another tumultuous year of underachieving new york met baseball, then go ahead and sign him.

    also, greg, its pretty hard to have someone in your head when youre the regning world champions. its more like, everyone else has the phillies in their head. thats sort of hos sports have always been. the champion doesnt worry about their rival anymore than any other team they face. you just take it one game at a time and treat each opponent with the same level of respect. thats what championship baseball is all about.

     
  • Posts: 0 erik

    yes becasue philadelphia teams feed off beating their rivals. listen to the lyrics of eye of the tiger man. look what the birds just did to dallas. donovan mocking T.O. That makes the fans go wild and it helps feed the momentum of the team. Greg, you just dont understand philadelphia sports.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    For what its worth, I don’t think Derek Lowe is the difference between whether or not the Phillies or the Mets win the NL East. we’ve already proven we can beat him, so Im not too scared if he’s on the Mets staff.

    Greg, did you actually hear any of the interviews?

    Manny “the guy that doesn’t hustle, not even in playoff games” Ramirez… i’d rather not have him on the Phillies

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Its one of those thigns where Derek Lowe would be nice to have at the right price/length of contract. otherwise…pass.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Wasn’t Hamels asked if the Mets choked? I didn’t think he brought it up.

    I think Bradley goes to the Cubs and hope Dunn goes to LA. Many and Boras would be screwed.

    Lowe would be a great addition, but I had my hopes up earlier so I’m laying Lowe(hah!).

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Lots of daydreaming going on here about Lowe thanks to some more rumors including Tim’s as well. I can’t see where all of a sudden Amaro has tons of money available and would be agreeable to a lo-o-ng term contract of say 4-5 yrs for Lowe. Come on.. get real. Obviously, Boras is up to his old tricks of manipulating owners/GMs in bidding against each other. The Phillies 4-man rotation is set and several candidates for 5th spot that is not often needed during the season. Now if Randy Wolf and the Phillies have any real interest with each other, that may be the route to go and certainly far more cheaper than Lowe. But again, don’t see the necessity of having another expensive starter in what is already a solid rotation.

     
  • Posts: 0 ryan

    the mets probably stalled because Bernie Madoff Made off with all their moneys. lol

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    I’m all for signing Lowe… but signing him now would definitely make signing Moyer look stupid… unless something else is happening with Myers or Blanton.

    I’m convinced that had we not signed Moyer, Lowe would’ve been practically ours.

    And as Bruce says, our rotation is pretty much set… oh well… Maybe Amaro has this “thing” for veterans and gets him.

     
  • Posts: 0 Malcolm

    Attention Phillies: Focus on the bullpen. A lot of upgrade relievers out there.. Joe Beimel, Will Ohman, Dennys Reyes, Chad Cordero, Russ Springer, Derrick Turnbow. Give our young pitchers some back up. The rotation is set to be determined. The lineup is practically set. Forget about signing Derek Lowe. The Mets are more likely to sign both Lowe and Perez. We’ll be able to sign Hamels, Victorino and Werth to extensions and give Howard another year of arbitration payment.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    The Phils have an extra $40-50 million to allocate so if we can get Lowe for a reasonable price get him. Mets are only going to sign one more pitcher at least that’s the rumor. they can have Perez or Wolfe for change. If we can’t get Lowe for a reasonable price the move on.

     
  • Posts: 0 Tyler

    You smell that?

    It smells like a little big of fear from the Phillies fans.

     
  • Posts: 0 IRONPIGPEN

    I don’t think we really need Lowe. I think our money would be wisely spent elsewhere. Some pay raises for guys (like Victorino) who are deserving maybe. A nice reliever to replace Gordon perhaps? Majewski and Borkowski are the only two relievers signed who pitched in the Majors last season thus far. We could do better than them, can’t we? Those two are for the Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

     
  • Posts: 0 Evan

    I like everything about the current rotation except Moyer. Yes he’s a hometown hero now and I see some virtue in keeping him on. I still think his ability to fool hitters can’t last forever and we’ve seen him beaten up pretty badly in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd. He can be a big strain on the relief pitching. But since the Phils have already picked him up I’d rather keep everything in place and pass on Lowe.

    If that means the Mets get Lowe then so be it. I don’t think he’s worth spending money on right now.

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    The phillies are not getting Lowe. They are only mentioned as a suitor because Boras wants to scare the mets into action. Whether he ends up on the mets, at this point who knows. It would seem to be counterproductive for the Phillies to have Lowe anyways because it would trap their good young pitching in the minors (unless they trade away Myers or Blanton). Manny will not be a met. The mets owner wants nothing to do with him. And I dont think that the mets are in the phillies heads, it seems more like the mets are in phillies fans heads, or philly broadcasters heads. For whatever reason, phillies fans seem obsessed with talking about the mets. I get that they are rivals, and that they are the two best teams in their division, but met fans that I know dont talk about the phillies as much as philly fans talk and write about them. Maybe its because the mets fans hated the braves for so long that they are still stuck on hating them too, I dont know.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    I am in a grumpy mood today… I realize that I have been jumping on every comment. My apologies… I will now turn my frustration on the Muts fans who claim that we are worried/scared. I will remind them that our lineup is still better than theirs. I will remind them that, although their team purchased two solid relievers (both righthanded… great for us), they also lost their best two relievers from last year’s team (Wagner and Smith) and a very dependable defensive OF (Chavez). Let me remind them that we’re working on our third straight NLE championship… and the last time I checked, we are the defending World Champs. If you are thinking that we are worried about you clowns, think again. We’re just better than you.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    The claims of a Mets ‘great off-season’ is exagerated. They have so many holes I wouldn’t be so happy if I was a Mets fan, Chuck your right they’ve parted with what depth they had and all they’ve upgraded is their bullpen which they’ve paid a premium to do.

    rotation: Phillies
    bullpen: still the Phillies because of the quality in depth once you get past the closer and primary SU men which is a toss-up
    catcher: Phillies
    1st: Phillies
    2: Phillies
    short: toss-up
    3rd: Mets
    outfield: Phillies a Beltran doesn’t count as a whole outfield
    bench: Phillies
    in the system: Phillies

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    the mets bullpen is baseically k-rod, putz, and still a bunch of slop garbage trash. so two good relievers doesnt make a good bullpen. i mean, give credit to them now, last year, they had NO good relievers. this year, they managed to get two good ones and somehow managed to unload three crappy ones (schowenweis, smith, heilman). but they still have a bunch of other crappy relievers and a bunch of empty slots that theyll fill with crappy relievers. so im not too worried about that.

    basically this means that johan santana only has to get through 8 innings now because between putz and k-rod they should manage to get through an inning without blowing a save.

    the mets lineup has big holes in it too. who are their corner outfielders again? church (injured a lot last year) and tatis/prospects? watch them get desperate and sign manny to serve no other purpose than get this manager fired too…

     
  • Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski

    I am still in favor of signing Lowe but not at a stupid lengthly deal. Get him for 3 years and 15M. He is worth that. He is a proven playoff pitcher who would look great in the #2 role here. That bumps down everyone else. And having Moyer at #5 going against most team’s unproven people is a huge boon too.

    With Big Tex going to the Bronx, Manny is left high and dry. His most lucrative offer might be from the Nats. Wow. Manny would finish up his HOF career with one of the worst baseball teams in recent memory. And it is all his doing. Remember him basically assaulting the 70+ yr old traveling secretary of the Sox. Who does that?

    But I would love Manny to come here for 3 years in the middle of our lineup- that would be record worthy stuff every night. And he would fill the park too so his salary would be worth it.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If it was as easy as $45M/ 3 year deal to sign Lowe, he’s already be on the Phillies… or Boston, or numerous other teams that wouldn’t mind signing him to that deal.

    The problem is that he was asking for $90m/ 5 years… that is a big difference

    DO NOT BRING MANNY RAMIREZ TO PHILADELPHIA…. he is a DOG.. can hit the crap out of the ball, but he’s a circus in the field, and off the field.. the only place he helps your club is when he’s got the bat in his hands, and he hurts you whenever he doesn’t…including after he drops it to jog-out a hit

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I have gotten TOTALLY sick of hearing people demand or ask about bringing manny here. It is a terrible idea, its NOT going to happen, they already signed a player for that position who better fits THIS team and THIS city. manny ramirez would HATE playing in this city, and we would hate him by the time we were gone. Think Eric Lindros but worse…

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    How about all those morons in LA with the dredlock Manny-wigs now.. assclowns.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    those wigs will look real good when theyre in the stands watching adam dunn or bobby abreu play left field.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    “How about all those morons in LA with the dredlock Manny-wigs now.. assclowns.” Too much…

    I would love to see the numbers that Manny could put up hitting in CBP every night and there was a time when I thought he might be a great fit… it’s just too bad he’s such an *insert explicative here* with a chump for an agent.

     
  • Posts: 0 Woodman

    I agree with you, Chuck P. The very idea that the Phils are scared of the MUTS is laughable. What do the Phillies have to fear from a bunch of underachievers who choke at the sight of the finish line. Muts & Cowgirls… two peas in a pod!

     
  • Posts: 0 Phils Are joedaddy

    I think i’d rather have a focused Myers on the last year of a contract than Lowe on the first year of a 3 or 5 year contract.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    The thing I’ve started wondering about is why don’t the Dodgers want Lowe back, considering they haven’t re-signed Manny their not that cash-strapped… Considering they’ve lost pitchers off their staff creating a void do they know something we don’t…?

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Dodgers have Billingsley, Kershaw, and a bunch of young, underpaid position players.. that will make lots and lots more money in the years to come.

    They know that the market for Lowe will overpay dramatically, no matter who signs him, he’s still getting $14, 4 years or something like that after teams bid with one another.. he isn’t worth that so the Dodgers are being smart

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Don I agree with your thinking but the Dodgers aren’t exactly the model of a patient franchise and their loosing 5 established veteran pitchers and counting on Jason Shmidt to be able to take a roster spot.

    I’d like to see Lowe in Philly pinstripes though for the above reasons I’m wondering if it’s not just Boras that has kept him on the market but something else. Food for thought.

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    I know its difficult for some people to have a civilized discussion with fans of opposing teams, but I shall try nonetheless. NJ, how can you really believe that the Phillies are better in every aspect then the mets except for 3rd base? Yes, I know you are the world champs, but you won the division by 3 games. If you were better in every aspect but one, you would think youd win by double digits, and lead the division from pillar to post. The mets rotation is incomplete right now, so as of now Id agree that the Phillies are better. Its up for reevalution once the mets fill out their rotation. The Phillies bullpen was perfect last year. I see no reason that they could hope it would happen again. It is so rare for a bullpen to be perfect, no right minded fan could really believe they wont make mistakes/blow games this season. The mets added two studs, a solid middle reliever in sean green, and they removed a terrible reliever in heilman. Yes, losing smith could hurt, but not if green is the same pitcher. Therefore, I dont see any reason why the bullpens of each team cant be a wash. As far as the position players go, How is catcher an advantage for the phils? Ruiz batted .219 with 4 HR and 31 RBI in 117 games. Schneider is no Bench, but he at least hit over .250 with 9 HR and 38 RBI in 110 games. So catcher, I would say, goes to the mets. First Base is closer than you think. Howard had 10 more HR, and 31 more RBI. Howards OPS was .881, Delgado’s .871. Delgado struck out 75 FEWER times than Howard and had 11 fewer errors. I would give the advantage to Phils at first. Second, no argument at all, Utley is the best in the league. Shortstop isnt that close. Reyes is better than Rollins. Rollins was inferior to Reyes in almost every statistic. HR, Runs, RBI, BA, OBP, OPS, HITS, SB, 3B. Rollins may have been a different player 2 years ago, but he wasnt that player at all last year. 3B is obviously Wright. LF, Ibanez should be better than the platoon the mets have. CF, Beltran hands down. RF, Werth was better than Church for the season, but Church did have a concussion. If Church is healthy, this seems like a wash. Im sure that most/all of you philly fans who read this will be up in arms and angry bc I didnt say every philly is an all star, but I believe this is the objective/real evaluation of our teams. Both are good. Yours seems to be better in September, when it counts. Hopefully this rivalry will stay good for years to come.

    rotation: Phillies
    bullpen: still the Phillies because of the quality in depth once you get past the closer and primary SU men which is a toss-up
    catcher: Phillies
    1st: Phillies
    2: Phillies
    short: toss-up
    3rd: Mets
    outfield: Phillies a Beltran doesn’t count as a whole outfield
    bench: Phillies
    in the system: Phillies

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    Sorry, I forgot to take off the portion that I cut from NJ’s post. I had to paste it so I wouldnt have to keep scrolling up to see what it was.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    David….Jimmy Rollins is the best fielding shortstop in baseball and a leader in addition to his stats. Reyes has great stats and acts like a, well, I don’t think “punk” is innacurate. Rollins is a man, Reyes….a child. Tell me something, if you had to start your team right now to play with for the next five years, who would ya take? I thought so. Delgado…now there’s a man. He steps up. Love the guy. But to compare him to Howard in any way, shape, or form is foolhardy. You have two starting pitchers and the rest are crap. Ruiz is a better player then Schneider (isn’t he the super from “One Day at A Time?) Other than the aforementioned, I thought you made some rather salient points.

    Sincerely,

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 bigbobster

    From Peter Gammons: “…Mets claim their baseball operations will not be harmed by the Bernie Madoff scandal, even though Madoff handled some of the revenues the Mets put aside to fund deferred contracts and some other payments.” Wow. A Ponzi scheme impacting baseball. Anyway, back to Lowe: I don’t like the Phils locking in 35-year old pitcher for 13m to 15m per year. Save that money for home-grown products like Hamels and Happ. Sorry if I sound like a broken record, but choose chemistry over big name signings! Except for Arizona (01) and Sox (04 version), last 10 WS winners had home-grown talent anchoring four or five positions.

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    Dipsy, I would absolutely take Reyes over Rollins. I understand Rollins is the better defensive player, but I dont think Reyes is a “punk” like you do. I understand other team fans dont like him bc he’s not a zombie out there. I get it, he celebrates and this upsets people. Every team has celebrations. Every team breaks the “unwritten” rules of baseball when it comes to celebrating. Whether its a power hitter staring at a homerun as they leave the batters box, or a centerfielder catching fly balls underhand. Sometimes people are trying to “show up” other teams/players, but I really dont think Reyes is trying to do that. I truly believe that he is just an energetic player who gets excited about playing a game. Id hate to think that getting excited about playing a game makes you a punk. And this punk, as you call him, is a decent human being who supports the majority of his extended family, and lives in a modest home with his entire nuclear family and wife. As to Delgado vs. Howard. Howard is a great power hitter, but a very lousy hitter in general. I get that he is your golden boy and to insult him is to declare jihad. But face it, he is starting down the road to being Adam Dunn with these strikeout totals and low BA. I think hes still an elite talent, but lets not act like hes Pujols. Our starting pitching is only 3 deep at the moment, so to say that they are crap after our top 2 is basically saying that you think John Maine is crap. And not to start a whole new argument, but how is it that the Phillies rotation is great, outside of Hamels? Hes good, I get that, but Myers had like a 4.50 era didnt he? Moyer is a solid six inning pitcher. Blanton had a 4.69 era last year, 4.20 after the trade. Its your bullpen that is the real story. They masked terrible starts by Eaton and Myers earlier in the year, and continued to help Blanton and others when necessary as the year went on. They kept you in close games, and locked down every lead given them. If the mets had a bullpen that was 85 percent what yours was last year, Santana wouldve won 20+ and the mets wouldve won the division by 2 or 3 games. The Phillies are the champs, I get that, but I think if you look at these points more objectively, youd see that they are not that far off point.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Dear David:

    I must admit that it is heartwarming to hear that Reyes takes care of his “extended” family. I also concede that he probably helps underprivileged children, reads the classics, and is currently working on a cure for cancer. I would like you to explain to me how all those things translate to the baseball diamond. Howard a “lousy hitter in general”. Well if he is a lousy fielder, which we know, AND he’s “a lousy hitter in general”, then someone will have to explain to me why is he always in the top 2 in the MVP every year. As I see your staff now, you’re Santana, Pelfrey, Maine, Moe, and Curly. You can point out everything you want about how “we did this good but you’ll do it bad this year” or “your guy can’t be counted on to do THAT again” but when its all over but the crying, the Mets just can’t win. What talent. Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Delgado. I’d rather have your nucleus than ours quite frankly. But here’s what our team has produces that the Mets don’t. The clutch hit. The great fielding play. The timely well pitched game. Pitching out of jams. Quite simply, the Phillies are more than the total sum of its parts. And the Mets are less than theirs. Thats probably the only thing that separates the two. As the rock band America used to sing “Oz never did give nothin to the tin man that he didn’t already have”. Keep on clickin those red shoes Muts fans.

    Sincerely,

    The Dipsy

    Lowe 3y36m to the Mets? Get on that damn phone Amaro.

     
  • Posts: 0 Memphis

    Yeah, 3 for 36 is all Lowe has to choose from? Need to give Lowe an honest offer if that’s really the only/best offer out there. To let Lowe just go to New York (as I feared all along) for that is almost irresponsible. Rube said pitching is the priority this offseason. Did that really mean Moyer, Park, Maj, Neal?

    As for this Phillies vs Mets stuff, both are good teams, you can match ‘em up on paper every day until April, won’t mean anything until the games count. Mets should be better (just from having a better bullpen). Phils should also be better (full year of Blanton, experience, possibly Ibanez as well), though Utley has to be a concern. No guarantees for either team to be as good as they were in ’08 as both teams have risks and questions. Lowe would help either team. The division will be decided by health, pitching, and guts down the stretch. (One of these years, you have to think the Mets won’t yack.) All that said, I’d much rather have Lowe than go against him. His value may be the highest in front of the Phils infield. For weeks, we thought 3/45 would probably not be enough, now 3/40 might seal it. I wonder if Lowe would take 1/15 (with a player option for a second year at the same rate should he achieve certain triggers) and re-assess his chances for a longer deal a year from now. He’s a horse.

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    Dipsy, I explained why I thought reyes was not a punk on or off the diamond. Howard is not top two in mvp voting every year, I think your confusing him with Albert Pujols (hes the first baseman for the St. Louis Cardinals). Its ok, it happens with Philly fans. They think their first baseman is the best in the league. Now, granted, Howard has been top two twice. And that is two more times than any current Met. But my argument isnt that Howard was undeserving of his MVP. Its that his hitting skills, not power skills, but hitting skills have been diminishing year by year. Put down the koolaid for a minute and youd be able to read what Im saying without going blind with rage. And why is it that any time a philly fan gets engaged by a mets fan in conversation the end of the conversation ends up with the philly fan using the term “muts”? Is it ignorance? Frustration? Its like watching a little kid tell someone that they have koodies and then run away.

     
 
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