Report: Wild Multi-Team Deal Could Land Phils DeRosa
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Mon, December 08, 2008 09:34 PM | Comments: 51
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UPDATE (12:09 a.m. Tues.): Jim Salisbury confirms the trade talk for Philadelphia. He writes a Phillies source says a three-team trade is possible, but a four-team trade is “doubtful.”
Salisbury added Delmon Young is way down the Phils list of targets, according to team sources.
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UPDATE (11:18 p.m.): Mid-Atlantic Sports Network brings up a point we shouldn’t overlook: The Phillies could be interested not in DeRosa, but pitcher Jason Marquis.
Marquis, 29, went 11-9 with a 4.53 ERA last season for the Cubs.
I don’t know. Why would the Phils trade Happ (who could put up those same numbers, or better) for Marquis?
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UPDATE (10:40 p.m.): Krasovic has a good grasp on this now. He says the Orioles would be in on the deal, making it a four-team swap. The Phillies are interested in Mark DeRosa, and — to my knowledge — would likely send JA Happ and Chris Coste to the Padres for DeRosa, who would be part of the original deal for Peavy. There may be another name involved, but I don’t know that name now.
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UPDATE (9:45 p.m.): Tom Krasovic of the San Diego Union-Tribune sheds a little more light on this:
The Padres like their chances of getting Cubs prospect Josh Vitters and Cubs pitchers Sean Marshall and Kevin Hart. The Cubs are exploring side deals to add to the mix, including a swap that would bring Orioles left-handed pitcher Garrett Olson to the Padres. As for the fifth player, Cubs reserve shortstop Ronny Cedeno has been discussed. The Padres are looking for a shortstop, and Towers said it’s possible the Peavy trade will bring them one.
As for Olson, the Padres may be able to do better if the Phillies and Cubs make a side deal, and there has been progress in that direction.
This means that if the Phils were to take part in this deal, they’d likely send Happ and Coste to San Diego. In return, the Phils would receive Vitters, or maybe Vitters and Cedeno or Mark DeRosa. Looking far ahead, that means Vitters (a third baseman) could be turned around as a trading chip. Or Jason Donald might be more readily available.
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THOUGHTS: I don’t know how the Cubs could give the Phillies enough in this kind of deal. One major league-ready name that strikes me is outfielder Felix Pie. The 23-year-old hit .241 with one HR and 10 RBI in 83 at bats last season. He was the Cubs’ top prospect in 2007 and bats left-handed.
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UPDATE (9:09 p.m.): Scott Miller of CBS Sportline has names:
Any Phillies’ involvement could wind up sending left-hander J.A. Happ, 26, the Phillies’ third-round pick in the 2004 draft, to San Diego. The Padres and Phillies also have discussed catcher Chris Coste, according to sources.
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UPDATE (9:06 p.m.): MLB.com seems to refute the idea that the Phils are looking at Peavy; instead, they side with Rotoworld, saying the Phils would help facilitate a trade of Peavy to Chicago.
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UPDATE (9 p.m.): According to FOX Sports’ Ken Rosenthal, the Phillies are interested in Peavy:
The Padres like some of the Phillies’ young minor-league pitchers, major-league sources told Rosenthal, but the talks are only in the preliminary stages.
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From Rotoworld:
The Phillies have reportedly emerged as a possible third team in the discussions between the Cubs and Padres regarding Jake Peavy.
The Cubs and Phillies wouldn’t seem to have much of a fit, unless the Phillies were particularly enamored with third base prospect Josh Vitters and were willing to throw a couple of young pitchers San Diego’s way in order to get him. Ronny Cedeno to Philadelphia would also make some sense, but he’s hardly a major piece.
Vitters, 18, hit .328 with five home runs and 37 RBI in 61 games for low-A Boise in 2008. He’s set to begin 2009 in A-ball. He was the Cubs’ first-round pick (third overall) in the 2007 draft.
Posts: 0 Pete
Say it ain’t so
Posted: 09:42 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Pete
Phew…according to Rosenthal, the Phils are in it for Peavy directly, not as a facilitator for the Cubs (which, frankly, would make ZERO sense)
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8914074/Cubs,-Phils-approach-Pads-about-Peavy
Posted: 09:45 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
I have not heard a single possible name that that Philies would get from the Cubs that makes any sense (although De Rosa as a secondary player would be possible). If they could actually pry Peavy away using some combination of Happ, Coste and a couple of pitchers, why wouldn’t they take him themselves? The money? If Meyers or Eaton were thrown in it should be affordable.
I do hope that Chris can find a good home – there’s just little room for him on the Phils next year.
Posted: 10:00 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
NOW wre talkoing..if they somehow land peavy ill rescind my claim that hes overrated and hope for the best…im ok with them helping the cubs land peavy too IF they can get vitters or mark derosa or one of the cubs relief arms out of it…amaro would be very shrewd and slick to pull a good prospect or two out of this at the cost of only happ and coste. the cubs cant land peavy until they are sold…and until they move marquis’ salary. so the phillies can use this to their advantage in some way..
Posted: 10:05 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 scot
Doesn’t Peavy have a no-trade clause. Would he waive that to come to the Phils?
Somewhere, JD Durbin is thinking, “I beat that guy!!!”
Posted: 10:12 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 psujoe
Peavy in CBP would be a little scary, but he’d be a nice addition. I don’t think I’d trade our projected #5 starter for a prospect since our #2′s gone next year and we have no #3.
Posted: 10:14 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
Pie? Another left hander……not interested.
Now Soriano, right hander who plays some left field…..I know money would be an issue but if SD takes Eaton (who’s 1 yr remaining is attractive) , along with Happ, Coste and a minor leaguer then that’s something to consider. Not that the Cubs would but……
Posted: 10:15 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 scot
wait, is the time stamping on the comments off from the time stamping above?
NO WAY should the phils enter into this if it will help Peavy go to the Cubs. No way, no how.
Posted: 10:17 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Tim Malcolm
I think when we went through daylight savings, the post times messed up. They’re about 45 minutes late. My written timestamps are correct.
Posted: 10:21 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
Yeah, scot our time stamping is based on Nova Scotia apparently while Tim’s entry is Eastern time.
Posted: 10:22 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 scot
gotcha. thanks.
supposedly the phils have interest in derosa. i don’t think it’s worth getting the cubs peavy, if we only get derosa back. that seems crazy.
Posted: 10:29 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
I’m okay with all of this if we get Vitters and Derosa.
Posted: 10:40 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
Also, what’s the chances of sending Happ, Coste, Kendrick, Donald, and maybe someone else to get Peavy? I know that seems like a large load, but it is Jake Peavy. I know everyone thinks he is overrated and his numbers are inflated, but we’d have him for years to come and he’s an ace. Hamels/Peavy/Myers/Blanton/Carrasco would be the best rotation in the NL. Hamels/Peavy would trump any 1-2 punch that we could possibly face.
Posted: 10:42 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 scot
If we are sending away Happ, and not getting pitching in return, Amaro better be certain we are landing Lowe or re-signing Moyer.
Posted: 10:53 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Ryan
I would say go for it if we can land vitters, he could be our 3b of the future.
Posted: 11:03 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Gary
DeRosa sounds awful.
Vitters sounds great.
We might as well as build lower farm depth, so we end up with a great second crop from the farm, by trading away our mediocre current crop.
Posted: 11:30 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Phillies Phan SC
Maybe we can sneak Eaton in there.
Scot – I think you are correct. Not a wise deal if Moyer and Lowe are not signed or ready to be signed.
Posted: 11:33 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Phillies Phan SC
Just keep in mind SD was in last place. If the Cubs get Peavy, bail out now. If we get him send whoever. Taking anyone from SD is not worth it unless Peavy is part of it.
Posted: 11:36 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Alphonse Dattolo
NO MATTER WHAT IS DISCUSSED-THE PHILLIES WILL BE THE 2009 WORLD CHAMPIONS!!!!!I HAVE BEEN A PHILLIES FAN FOR 49 YEARS!
Posted: 11:41 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
Bail out now? ahhaa, come on man the cubs arent going to win the world series. they have no clue what theyre doing over there. peavy is good but theyre going to get robbed in this trade…just watch it…if the phillies can sneak in, unload coste, happ (id rather they unload kendrick), and maybe con some team into taking adam eaton while grabbing derosa (LF, RF, CF, 2B, SS), who is a VERY versatile player who can hit for power, whos from NJ, went to Penn, philly type of person, then amaro has done a nice job.
Posted: 11:46 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Greg V.
Hopefully DeRosa feels like playing LF!
Posted: 11:50 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
If they give up Happ and Coste, they should be getting back more than a utility guy and an A-level minor leaguer.
If either Kendrick or Eaton with Coste then it makes sense (although Philly would probably eat some of Adam’s salary).
Posted: 11:56 PM on December 8, 2008
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
Unrelated but not deserving of a single post right now, it looks as if Ken Mandel was laid off today (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3756028):
“Among the employees let go was MLB.com’s reporter who covered the World Series champion Philadelphia Phillies. Bowman said he will be replaced.”
Posted: 12:08 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
I’m with the rest of the group if it’s between DeRosa and Josh Vitters I’d prefer Vitters for his ability to either be a trading chip or future 3rd baseman and allow Donald to stay at 2nd should the Phils move Utley to first once howard is let go. Marquis may be on their mind for his ability to be a better version of Adam Eaton, a decent pitcher who can thump at the plate.
Posted: 12:19 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
Tim, you’re right
–picking up Marquis is a step down from Happ if anything especially considering the price.
By the way, I’m not against picking up DeRosa just not at the cost of Happ and Coste unless they have another pitcher in place (Moyer, etc)
Posted: 12:22 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 clktwr14
I say screw the Cubs and work the deal straight up for Peavy, add Jaramillo and not Coste, and a second round pick into it, look were the defending World Champs why wouldn’t Peavy come here, and besides the Cubs need to name a new owner, also read ” Cubs can currently go overbudget, but need to subtract later…”
Posted: 12:28 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
Justin, why would they want another Eaton when they cant get rid of the one they have now? Especialy at the cost of their #5/swing arm. Marquis is no better than a #4 starter, if that – yet you’d have to pay his contract which has him at a 3/2. Its making a move just to make a move. The champs shouldnt do that kind of thing. Show some confidence in your own products their the ones that helped you win the WS in the first place.
BTW, why is everyone so sold on moving Utley? It’s going to be a heck of alot easier to find a power hitting 1B once Howard leaves. If they can move Donald into 3B next year after a year of working with Bruntlett that isnt such a bad idea.
Posted: 12:31 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Justin
#1 Chris I have full faith in this team but JA Happ isn’t the reason we won the world series. Trading Chris Coste and Happ for Josh Vitters and either DeRosa/Cedeno/or Marquis is a good trade to make it gives the phils either their future 3rd baseman or a decent trade chip to make another move.
#2 Granted it’d be nice to get a different #2 starter behind Hamels instead of Myers but right now all their looking for if they’re going to let Moyer walk is someone to take his place. Marquis is an okay option but no I wouldn’t prefer him. Was just trying to make sense of it since like eaton his bat is better than his arm.
Posted: 12:39 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Memphis
How does anyone think we are going to turn Happ and Coste into Vitters and DeRosa? That’s crazy talk. Vitters has to be going to SD. It’s Happ and Coste for DeRosa only.
Posted: 12:56 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Chris L
The main reason the team won the world series is the scouting department choosing the right guys and the coaching staffs developing them then adding a few pieces. I hate it when fans automatically want to trade for a guy when he’s the same player they are willing to give up just older and more expensive. There is no way that marquis is a number 2. From what I’ve sen of him when he was out here in StL and now in Chicago, he’s hit his ceiling and is a classic case of an overpaid guy who will not reach the level he was hoping to.
memphis – i agree I dont see SD letting Vitters come this direction either but I think DeRosa by himself is a little steep a price if they’re giving up Happ they should at least be getting a AA/AAA player who has some potential too
Posted: 01:11 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
thats correct memphis itll probly hash out sort of like this…
cubs send derosa to phillies for happ & coste
cubs send happ & coste, hart, vitters, & wuertz/sean marshall to san diego for jake peavy.
good deal for san diego, actually. lots of good young pitching to just sacrifically throw into their rotation.
derosa can play every position in the infield and outfield basically, but hell do fine as an everyday LF for two years, which is all youre asking out of him.
the phillies then sign moyer and lowe. maybe a scrap reliever or two and call it a day. not bad…theyd still have rotation depth..
Posted: 01:17 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Memphis
I agree. I like DeRosa’s versatility. I think he’d be a nice add, but I’m not sure I like giving up Happ for him, especially with Lowe and Moyer uncertain.
Unless we know something on Marquis that others don’t (or unless the Cubs are going to pay his salary), I would be shocked to see us trying to get him. I don’t get that.
Posted: 01:36 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Pete
OK – If what we’re unloading is Happ and Coste for Vitters and DeRosa, then fair enough, as long as Amaro is SURE we can sign Lowe (Moyer wants $11MM per for 2 years, which is absurd). Short of that kind of haul, there is no reason to help the Cubs get better. I’d still probably rather have the Phils get involved for Peavy directly, but as far as I’ve heard, Peavy is not willing to waive his NTC for any team but Cubs, Braves, and Dodgers.
Trading Happ and Coste for Vitters and DeRosa is a nice haul, but opens up an enormous hole in our pitching staff unless we’re locking someone in. With Heyman’s report of Amaro being “very aggressive” with Moyer and Lowe, I’m cautiously optimistic that this is what’s going on. Best case? We get Hamels/Lowe/Myers/Blanton/Carrasco, while calling up Marson to back up Chooch and netting what we hope is a future stud 3B with a super-utility guy that we plug into LF. Not bad at all if it happens. Helping the Cubs get Peavy if we don’t lock up Lowe is a huge f-up by Amaro, however.
Posted: 06:17 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Pete
BTW, if the Phils are targeting Marquis, then Amaro should be fired on the spot. Cubs are looking to straight salary dump Marquis SO THEY CAN GET PEAVY. Why on earth would we trade prospects to get Marquis in a deal that sends Peavy to the Cubs? Minimum return for us should be Vitters & DeRosa.
Posted: 06:20 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike B.
Unless someone’s taking Jason Marquis, this deal is not going to happen. If getting Marquis is absolutely crucial to getting Derosa, I don’t know if I even want to risk it unless the Cubs pay most of the salary. Only, Pete’s right – this is a salary dump to create space to acquire Peavy, so the Cubs paying most of the salary isn’t happening. Peavy almost definitely won’t be back in San Diego and is going somewhere who can afford him – according to Rob Neyer’s blog, (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3747643&name=Neyer_Rob), the Padres are probably in dire straits financially. And…holy shit. What if that’s with the Mets? We already KNOW they’re going after Lowe .
(http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/mets/2008/11/04/2008-11-04_derek_lowe_tops_wish_list_for_omar_minay.html).
If they get both…and they’ll have the money to get at least one with Pedro gone…oh damn. I don’t trust Lowe, but it’s better for us to have him than the Mets.
Posted: 08:20 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Keith
Give up Happ to help the Cubs? Keep Happ. Make a straight run at Peavey with the Moyer/Burrell dollars.
Posted: 09:17 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
thats the point…the phillies cant get peavy and niether can the cubs without each other in the deal. the phillies would empty out their farm plus shane victorino and thats not happening…you cant get jake peavy…its not worth it. the cubs are going to get robbed blind in this thing. their relief pitching depth will be gone and their outfield depth will be gone when this trade is done. they also wont have money to sign dunn or ibanez without first subtracting payroll.
ja happ will probably get lost in the mix in philadelphia, hes probably going to be challenged for the 5th spot by carrasco and by seasons end he could be back in the bullpen. hes a decent back-to-mid rotation starter, but they just really never handled him properly and dont seem to have room for him. and as he projects to be a good starter anyways he has that kind of value to even be considered in this deal. coste is a throw in because lou marson has leadfrogged him on the depth chart.
this is fine. derosa is a versatile player who can play any position but catcher. this past season he hit .285 with 21hr and 79 rbi. hell do fine. im nto saying hell hit 30 hr and drive in 100 runs, but hell be a fine replacement. the phillies appear to have finally realized that they should spend most of their offseason acquiring quality pitching. moyer, lowe, someone else if one of those two doesnt pan out. then pick up a good reliever or two and youre set. then you have a really good rotation and a ridiculous bullpen.
Posted: 09:52 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
the cubs bullpen sucks, and it will suck even worse after this trade…those 5 starters they have better be able to all go 8 innings every time out at least…but wait, lilly cant, harden cant, zambrano cant always do that either…and jake peavy is going to come back to earth once he leaves petco park. his road ERA was over 4 last season and he had a losing record away from the friendly confines.
the padres are making off with quality young pitching while unloading an overpaid, overrated player. just be patient, wait and see…
Posted: 09:55 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 TwoTonsOfIrony
Keith, read the posts a little closer. Moyer/Burrell dollars have nothing to do with this, dollars in general have nothing to do with this. It’s not about how much money Peavy will cost it’s about how much he will cost in players. He is not a free agent, it’s a trade.
Posted: 09:55 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
This doesn’t make enough sense to me… the Cubs, who were the best team in the NL until October, are going to get Cy Young winner Jake Peavy, for the cost of Mark DeRosa, a very good player, but somewhat of a journeyman..
and we would not only make the Cubs stronger, but we’d move our 26 year old LHP, JA Happ… I don’t get it.
If we were really going to get Derek Lowe and Jamie Moyer, I think this would be ok… but we might not sign Moyer, Lowe probably isn’t coming here, Myers could leave after next season, and they might trade Happ.. so Hamels, Blanton, Carrasco, Kendrick.. and maybe we’ll resing Adam Eaton to an extension to fill out the rotation.
please tell me this trade isnt going to happen!!!!
Posted: 10:00 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
I didn’t see Vitters name attached to that rumor until just now.. I still don’t like it.. Carrasco may or may not be ready to pitch up here, but i thought the plan was to wait and see in Spring Training.. and I think to bring Marson up as the backup to Ruiz, or even to split time with Ruiz is a big mistake.. let him start full-time in AAA and keep developing.
I really dont like this trade idea. Everyone gets stronger except us.. DeRosa is good, but quality starting pitching is VERY tought to come by..especially young LHP that can get strikeouts..
Don M,
Chairman of the Happ stays in Red Pinstripes Foundation
Posted: 10:05 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
the cubs are also slated to give up felix pie to the orioles for garret olsen, then send olson as part of the deal…also, theyre rumored to be giving up at least two of kevin hart, vitters, sean marshall, and michael wuertz
Posted: 10:05 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
so there goes the cubs bullpen depth…
Posted: 10:05 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Geoff
i still think we shoudl try and glom a reliever out of san diego at least though…
Posted: 10:07 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
So what the hell are the Padres getting in return if they let Peavy go.. Happ and Chris Coste.. wouldn’t they want Vitters? why would they let him come here?
Posted: 10:18 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Manny
This sounds good IF AND ONLY IF Amaro can get Lowe and another good pitcher (Moyer, hopefully). If not, then we shouldn’t let Happ be part of this deal. Happ was our minor-leaguer of the year, right?
Posted: 10:26 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Mike B.
Yeah he was this year’s Kyle Kendrick, except lefty and we didn’t rely on him. He came up huge and I hate getting rid of guys that come up big. Is there any possibility that they can trade draft picks and grab the Padres picks, or can that not happen in MLB? I figure we’ll need them, especially if we sign Lowe.
Honestly, the big thing that worries me about this deal is creating another Ryne Sandberg type situation (not that I was around then, but I read). God, Ruben I hope you know what you’re doing, and I hope you’ve a contingency plan if you can’t sign Lowe or Moyer, and that contingency plan had better not be Jason Marquis (unless we pay him zero dollars which won’t happen) or Adam Eaton.
Now that I think about it, wasn’t our fifth rotation spot in flux last year?
Posted: 11:11 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Memphis
I think this is the deal, folks:
Cubs get Peavy
SD gets Vitters (jewel of Cubs farm system)/Marshall/Hart, maybe Marquis (with Cubs paying some salary), Happ & Coste (from us), maybe Olson (from Balt)
We get DeRosa (from Chicago)
Balt gets Pie (from Chicago)
Cubs would be giving up a lot — Vitters, Marshall/Hart, possibly Marquis, DeRosa, and Pie
Posted: 11:34 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Don M
Its not worth Happ for DeRosa
Posted: 11:39 AM on December 9, 2008
Posts: 0 Phil
It’s only worth Happ for DeRosa if we resign Moyer.
Posted: 11:44 AM on December 9, 2008