Derek Lowe Update: Braves Make Offer
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Tue, January 13, 2009 09:33 AM | Comments: 98
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The ongoing saga that is the Derek Lowe affair (the baseball one) continues with the Braves. Most recently, Atlanta has reportedly offered Lowe a contract. It’s rumored to either be worth $15M per season, or a four year deal — both stipulations Lowe was hoping to receive.
The Mets, meanwhile, have cooled with Lowe (on the surface) while instead making an offer to once castaway Oliver Perez. The offer, according to Jon Heyman, is in the 3-year, $30 million range.
If the Mets sign Perez, they’d have a rotation of Santana-Maine-Pelfrey-Perez-Redding/Niese; I’d think they’d be finished searching for rotation arms at that point, but you never know. Back to the Braves, meanwhile, who finalized a deal for Japanese starter Kenshin Kawakami. He is said to be the best arm out of Japan this season, something close to — or better than — Hiroki Kuroda, who of course gave the Phillies a world of fits in 2008. The Braves rotation looks like this: Jurrjens-Kawakami-Vazquez-Reyes-Campillo. They could use Lowe.
For the Phillies?
No word on any headway with Lowe. It’s still possible the Phils could make a big play, but the way the rotation is set currently, it doesn’t look like they necessarily have to play.
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
The Lowe deal is rumored to be both — 4Y/$60M. Wow. That’s a bad deal.
Posted: 11:10 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
The Braves were always going to be the X-factor in the Lowe scenario, surprised the offer is so large considering the Mets seemed unable to go anywhere near that number.
As a Phils fan now you’ve got to accept that Lowe was a longshot, (my idea on Perez a longshot not he’ll return to the Mets on a half decent deal) and you look to the fact the Phils didn’t NEED to upgrade, Amaro played a hand at the big boys table knowing his hands already good enough to not have to gamble.
Posted: 11:14 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I thought that the 5th starter spot was still open, or the “other spot in the rotation.” thus leaving room for a potential signing…whos name will apparently NOT be Derek Lowe because – wow, that is waaaaay too much.
We all knew some desperate team would come in and give Lowe this type of money…but come on. thats SO desperate. thats a horrible contract : 4 years? hahaha. If I was Amaro and Boras even mentioned the number 4 in close proximity to years for Derek Lowe I would balk at that. I would also make sure to leak a report to the media saying that the Phillies “balked” at a four year 60mm asking price for derek lowe.
i saw amaro on TV last night though, hes up to something. He tried to act like everythings quiet down there at the ballpark but I can sense taht they are up to something. Its probably got to do with their arbitration players though. I think some extensions are going to be announced. Ill guess Jayson Werth and a random guy like Joe Blanton or something.
Posted: 11:18 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I think they shoudl just sign a couple guys to incentive-laden deals to compete for a rotation spot or to rehab with the Phillies organization and try to crack the rotation later in the season. Sheets is still out there…anyone else thats on the road to recovery they might be able to hide in florda for a few motnhs?
Posted: 11:20 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
We already have like 3-4 that are going to battle for the 5th spot… why would Sheets want to jump into that mix with an incentive-laden contract??
He SHOULD go back to the Brewers and just play it smart this year.. actually go on the DL if/when he needs to instead of skipping a start, and then throwing only 3 innings, then skipping a start, then throwing 2 innings, etc..
Rangers are the other team i’ve heard that want Sheets.. Michael Young wants out of there, I though they were looking to move Vicente Padilla… why would anyone want to go there outside of playing with Kinsler and Hamilton that is a bad place to be.
Arbitration filing period ends on Thursday.. what does that even mean?? Friday is the “exchange of salary arbitration figures” …. but what does it mean for a player to File for arbitration… isn’t that an automatic thing.. if you are under team control, but don’t yet have a contract in place..??
Posted: 11:39 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I think they have until thursday to agree to a contract with their arb players. they can agree to a contract right up until the hearing starts, they just have to sign up for arb by friday.theyll agree to contracts with all but a few of them i think. actually having the hearing is a very bad thing. i cant really recall many players who have gone to the hearing and ended up resigning with that team when they became a free agent.
that means that theyd better announce some contract extensions or one year agreements like really soon with people like hamels victorino and werth, possibly blanton. they will not go after lowe now that the braves totally got pressured into making a terrible contract offer. braves fans are idiots too…some of them are like “why would the phillies want lowe who killed them to sign with a division rival” – um, yeha see he didnt kill them – at all. in fact, they rocked him pretty hard in the playoffs. lowe is too old to get a contract like that, thats horrendous. thats going to bite them int eh ass in like a year when he goes jon lieber on them.
Posted: 11:49 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
The only way the Phils rotation was going to be improved was up top which is always a tough sell through the market since someone is always willing to overpay massively as shown by the Lowe deal in this market or say the D-Backs trade for Haren last year.
Agree with you Don on Sheets, very surprised he didn’t re-sign short-term after it became clear the money wasn’t going to be there after the Yanks splurge. I think the Rangers are just waiting him out to get a number their more comfertable with and obviously the Young mess has diverted their attention, shows what effect the awards season can have when a guy gets recognition in an area he really didn’t deserve.
Pitching names that could compete for a rotation spot still unattached a minor-league deal could be possible with would be Fogg, Chuck James, Odalis Perez, Kip Wells… Think Freddy Garcia is about the only one out there that would be worth throwing into the mix but we all know the history.mThe only pitchers out there not type A’s worth guaranteeing a roster spot for would be Beimel, Ohman and Lyon.
Posted: 11:54 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
for the 5th starter thing..i do not consider kyle kendrick or park legitimate ciontenders for that spot. its JA Happ vs Carlos Carrasco basically. kendrick…NO, unless he can throw harder or has learned like 2 more new pitches and can locate them too…he was horrible by the time he got pulled from the rotation. I think he needs a year in AAA to rebuild his confidence or maybe the opportunity to go somewhere, liek san dego or the pirates, where theyll have no qorries about trotting him out there every 5 days. park…no, just no. hes a middle relief pitcher at best, a long man at worst. but a decent arm to have in the bullpen as a body.
so..youre not really pushing happ at all are you? i mean, carrasco might be ready but he hasnt had a full year in AAA yet either, so i mean who is he really competing against? adam eaton…yeah right.
Posted: 11:57 AM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Really hope we leave Carrasco until he can come up ready to rock out, the kid has too much talent but the knock on him is he’s so young he still hasn’t really learnt to pitch so bringing him up prematurely this year could see him slip and loose all that great stuff that projects him as a frontline pitcher.
Happ’s the man, you want to see competition but there’s no-one out there healthy who you can say would be likely to put together a better year, maybe Jon Garland but what’s the point of having prospects if you don’t let them play and if Happ were in somewhere like Minesotta then maybe he’d be very much entrenched into their rotation now.
Posted: 12:06 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
i dont like lyon, ohman seems average, beimel is from the area…
i thought springer wasnt offered arb..is he was….forget about that..
i guess what it comes down to is ai sorta dont really trust myers to be as good as theyll need a number 2 to be all season long, but i REALLY dont trust moyer now that he was handed a two year contract. PRIME PRIME chance for a huge letdown from him or a return to earth. as time goes on i like that contract less and less..not as bad as lowes new bad cotnract though…
things have also been eerily quiet on teh howard front…im suspicious about that..i expect them to be making a racket over there by now about it…
Posted: 12:06 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
they actually should be bringing in competition for moyers spot…because i actually trust happ more than him at this point. sports, especially baseball, is all about ebbs and flows. its rare someone that age has tow good years in a row..
Posted: 12:08 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Yep was going to say that too Geoff, you have to trust that Myers, Blanton, Howard and Rollins will do what it says on the tin but trust is something Philly fans don’t really have too much of and we seem to always feel like our guys have knocks on them other guys don’t.
I agree with the assessment on Ohman and Beimel is a good numbers guy, certainly not an Eyre who can scare given the opportunity. I’m not sure whether it would be worth giving up the second round pick for any of the type B guys considering already signing a type A but I do like Lyon, he doesn’t have the make-up to consistently close but he’s very much like a Romero in that in the right role he can be a dominant mid and late situational reliver and he’s clearly not in the demand you’d expect for someone who started the year as a closer. That said I still believe we’re set and any major addition upsets the balance, maybe I’ll do a dipsy and start the Mercker to Philly foundation.
Posted: 12:16 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Lowe for 4 years $60 million makes me feel a little better about Moyer’s contract. I’m excited that Lowe isn’t going to the Muts. Now they’ll have to re-sign Oliver Perez (they offered 3 years, $30 million) or bring in Randy Wolf.
The Braves were apparently willing to give A.J. Burnett four years, so it doesn’t surprise me that they gave Lowe a 4th. I’d rather have Lower than Burnett, but that contract is too pricy.
I like the idea of Odalis Perez on a cheap one year deal.
Posted: 12:25 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Is it just me or does Lowe actually look like Sidney Ponson’s big brother…?
Posted: 12:25 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
well..of course i trust hamels…i trust happ and i actually trust blanton…i sort of trust myers…but i dont trust moyer. i havetn trusted moyer for years, which is why i was pleasantly surpised by his performance last year. still a great character guy though
Posted: 12:30 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Burnett’s was being willing for a 5th year, the insiders were calling it a money grab and the Yanks were stupid in that deal, you can understand overbidding on Sabathia and Tex but 5 premium years for Burnett was just ‘Pavanosque’
Posted: 12:31 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
well..derek lowe is a huge d-bag…
Posted: 12:32 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
yeah burnetts another bad contract..thats why the yankees arent going to win..when they won their rings the last go around it was because they make smart signings, not necessarily always the most expensive.
now thell just throw money at anyone thats ovverrated or overhyped by the NY media…burnetts contract, and probably sabathias at some point, will just be dead money in a few years…a black hole in their inflated payroll..
Posted: 12:35 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
On a random did you hear Ponson and the Orioles came to an agreement over their lawsuit, over his sacking, I wish I could get millions being sh*tcanned for being an massive jerk too….
Posted: 12:36 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
i think thats one of the requirements to be repped by boras…you have to be a huge d-bag…
Posted: 12:37 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Not so sure on that Geoff, I agree the Mets won’t win adopting the Yankees 2001 model but the Yanks have taken the All-Star team to a whole new level, long-term of course your right but you can’t deny how great that team is looking for the next couple of years- Sabathia, Burnett, Wang, Chamberlin, Rivera, Tex, A-Rod, Jeter, Matsui… Most teams would kick-out their guy to have one of those and Damon, Swisher, Cano aren’t bad names either.
Posted: 12:40 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Geoff… really.. stop and think for a few minutes.. you just said that you trust JA HAPP more than Jamie Moyer
I agree 100% that Kendrick probably won’t be in the rotation, and that Park will in the pen, and that Carrasco will be in AAA… BUT the fact that he impressed last year in AAA and was still on the fence with a call-up to the majors, and the fact that they have yet to name a 5th starter should be enough to start a fire under JA HAPP…. if he wants the job, its his for the taking, but he’s got to earn it.
I’d imagine that Kendrick has been working his a$$ off ever since he was removed from the rotation, so if either he or Park pitches well enough to earn a rotation spot out of Spring Training, its because they earned it and out-pitched the other guys..
That said, I fully expect that Happ earns the 5th spot, and like I said before, I wouldn’t be surprised to see him win like 15 games this year (Knowing full well that “wins” don’t mean as much as ERA) but Happ has shown, in a few BIG games, that he comes to battle, he’ll give you 6+ innings, and with our offense, I imagine he’s leaving with a 5-3 lead a bunch of times and giving the game to the bullpen to close it out.
Posted: 12:41 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
I wonder if Boras makes love to his wife or just makes her go through a contract negotiation to screw her.
Posted: 12:42 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
60 million over 4 is a rip off. They could’ve had him at 52 to 56 mil. over 4 years crazy stuff. I guess 4 million todayjust isn’t a lot of money to some people.
Posted: 12:43 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
i mean its a nice collection of talent, but where are those clutch little role players every team needs to win a championship? even the high priced yankees of the 90s had some of those guys…
Posted: 12:43 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
The Yankees infield, and their starting rotation are ridiculous… their OF isn’t great, and they have no bullpen besides Mariano Rivera.. The RedSox WILL finish ahead of the Yankees this year
1. CC Sabathia, 2. AJ Burnett, 3. Chien Ming-Wang (should be #2), 4. Joba Chamberlin, and 5. Phil Hughes
Sure looks good on paper..
Posted: 12:45 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I think the Yankees signed Angel Berroa?? which is a good move, because he’s a versitle guy with a much better glove than most.
Posted: 12:46 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
“Lowe for 4 years $60 million makes me feel a little better about Moyer’s contract.”
Same here, Griffin. Given the current conditions (especially after December), that is too much for Lowe right now. But I would much rather give him 4 years than Burnett, for example. That being said, if the Braves do get Lowe for whatever deal, they’ll be a much better team, and they’ll be strong contenders in our division.
Posted: 12:47 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Isn’t great by Yankee standard sure but is still superior to most- Damon, Matsui, Gardener, Swisher, Nady is still a hell of an outfield and it isn’t the best bullpen sure but certainly isn’t the worst. Can you believe they can add a Type A FA in Cruz and only have to surrender a 4th round pick… That’s the part of the system that’s gone wrong.
Posted: 12:48 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
^The Yanks would be wise to lock Steinbrenner Jnr in a room and keep Chamberlin setting up, they don’t need him in that rotation like they do in the pen.
Posted: 12:50 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
wow now taht that deal has got to be on eof the worst contracts of the past few years…4 years 60mm for a 36 year old man who reminds me of jon lieber tooo much…boras really reclaimed his rep on this one…this is robbery…i mean, is derek lowe going to wear a mask when he pitches now?
how often have you seen bullpens be that great year in and year out over a stretch of time thoguh? i mean you gotta make sure you bring some bodies in there…theres gotta be someone out there better than clay condrey, come on now..
Posted: 12:51 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Are the Braves just out-bidding themselves on this contract for LOWE?
The Mets didn’t want to go past 3yr/$42 M was the last I saw… was the 4th year the difference maker? If they didn’t insist on that, im wondering if they could have more teams in on the bidding and get him 3 yr/$48 M..
eroneous I guess (spell check)… its too much for too many year him either way.. Starting Pitchers only make 30-35 appearances (IF THEY STAY HEALTHY).. so to make them the highest paid players is a bad move in my mind
Posted: 12:52 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Tony G
Signed.
Posted: 12:53 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Did no-one like that Boras joke?? Wonder also if his clients walk into negotiations wearing an “I’m with the asshole” a t-shirt. 60/4 isn’t bad for Lowe, just bad in this market.
Clay stepped up last year, he’s not much more but he’s a decent body on the level of most average middle relievers. Park was a hell of an addition to the pen but as was pointed out it’s success will lie with Madson’s ability to be a top 8th inning guy.
Posted: 12:56 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Did someone somewhere hear The Dipsy just break into tears??
Posted: 12:57 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I guess Damon is alright, he still hits for average.. but they signed him to an expensive deal that got him to leave Boston.. he has a lolipop-arm.. he’s overrated.
Matsui can’t stay healthy, which is a shame, cause he’d good..
Swisher has a career .244 average…
Nady is good, but they are trying to trade him..
And i’m not going to lie, I don’t know anything about Brett Gardner..
Posted: 12:59 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
NJ, I also think that 60/4 isn’t bad for Lowe as many people here are making it seem… it is a GREAT, SUPERB addition for the Braves (who frankly needed a quality pitcher). However, it is too much GIVEN the current market.
Posted: 01:00 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Lowe is a good pitcher, but I guess he wants money more than he wants to win.. He could have landed with the Phillies or the Mets for 2-3 years, and still LOTS of money… instead he wants to be the ACE of a Braves team filled with Old veterans, Young prospects, and nothing in between..
Posted: 01:01 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
shouldnt they be trading swicher and keeping nady? nady is a way better hitter..
Posted: 01:02 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Granted their not the players they signed (and Damon is grossly overrated) but that Yankee outfield is still going to to put a knot in your stomach when they come up to bat. Gardner seems to be a lower ceiling Jacoby Ellsbury.
Posted: 01:02 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Respect the Braves especially their pitching, their not the talented team they once were but their still the same club who must have chewing gum that tastes like October, that’s a wounded beast better to leave well alone than poke.
Posted: 01:05 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Outside of Chipper and McCann, they don’t scare me… Is it just me, or does McCann kill the Phillies??? He’s the new Mike Piazza, he just owns us it seems like
Posted: 01:17 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski
This is a Phillies blog, not a Yankees blog. No need to talk about their spare parts here. If it directly affected the Phils, then talk away. I thought the Phils should not let Lowe go to a division rival but in no way needed to overpay him. I am actually surprised at how prudent teams outside of NY are being when it comes to FAs this winter. We jumped the gun on Ibanez it seems but too late now.
Even if the Braves sign Lowe along with the new Japanese guy, they are still very suspect in their rotation. Who knows if Hudson can be effective anymore, Glavine is not Moyer, and that is all I know. The Braves need someone like Lowe just to sniff at the playoffs.
Posted: 01:18 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Bill
The deal is done. Lowe is a Brave. I am not sure he is the answer to their problems though.
http://www.phightinphils.com
Posted: 01:21 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
We’re not allowed to talk about the rest of baseball… teams the Phillies may or may not see if they make it back to the World Series?
Posted: 01:26 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
thats awfully fascist of you matt k…
Posted: 01:28 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
does anyone have beimels splits? can he deal with righies effectively?
Posted: 01:32 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Mike B.
This signing kind of worries me, although it’s better this than the Mets. We didn’t exactly rock him in the playoffs, either. I’m hoping he pulls a Jon Lieber, but Lieber’s never been as good as Lowe.
In other news, apparently the Rays signed Kapler. Does this mean we’re really going to rely on Mayberry as our RH outfield bench player?
Posted: 01:34 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
for what its worth, im mlb08 the show john mayberry cant hit a beachball….got nice power but he K’s like all the time…of course it isnt worth anything but i just thought its funny…reassuringly though, matthew taylor is the starting left fielder and im in the 2010 season…lou marson is not the starting catcher yet, carlos carrasco is 4 at this point, ja happ is a 3 and is MAD good. moyer retired and blanton is the 5 but hes very good as well. myers is still very good too…
i just think its interesting how they project some of these players’ growth curves via computer simulation….in real life carrasco is better than that….
Posted: 01:40 PM on January 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I’m willing to bet that in a simulated season of MLB’08 THE SHOW… the Mets and Yankees made the playoffs
Posted: 01:44 PM on January 13, 2009