Let This Sink In For A Moment
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Sat, January 17, 2009 04:26 PM | Comments: 35
Posts, Whimsy
Trolling ESPN.com, I had to post this comment someone left (edited):
For the price of Cole Hamels, Brad Lidge, and Chase Utley combined, the Yankees get 1 year out of A-Rod. How pathetic is that? I bet every team wishes they had a Pat Gillick right about now.
Well, I don’t know if Gillick has a lot to do with it, considering Hamels and Utley are homegrown. But a great comment nonetheless. We may squabble over financial matters, but just consider that quote for a moment: Potentially the best left-handed pitcher, closer and infielder in baseball, for as much as one A-Rod. (In fact, the Phils are even saving $5M and change.) Oh, and the Phils are world champions.
Posts: 0 Ed
Hilarious and accurate…doesn’t get much better than that.
Posted: 04:28 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Thats why the Yankees havent won since theyve gone overboard with this method of roster-building. Theyve always spent, but ever since they got a-rod and giambi they just starter going WAY overboard and went out of control. Since then, they have not won. That just goes to show you that the A-Rods or Lindros or Iversons or even Howard when he gets paid his money dont necessarily translate into championships won.
Posted: 04:43 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 inc
Does the team with the most money left distribute it to its fans? If not, who cares what the players get paid. write the checks!
Posted: 04:46 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 matt
That is pretty impressive, although Hamels’ contract does not add much to the argument. As an arbitration-eligible player, Hamels signed for well below what he’d get on the open market. Nonetheless, it is pretty amazing how much the Yankees pay A-Rod.
Posted: 05:38 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Comparing arbitration eligible years to free agency years is comparing apples to oranges.
I was hoping that the Phillies would buy out a year of free agency with Hamels, but this will do.
Hamels was always going to be a Phillie for the next 3 years, but at least now he’s happy about it and won’t have to endure any arbitration hearings.
Posted: 05:47 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
A quote from John Boggs, Hamels’ agent: “The contract gives Cole a degree of financial security, and it didn’t compromise his last year of arbitration or touch any free-agent years, which was our goal.”
Cole’s goal is to get to free agency. Yikes, let’s just enjoy him for the next 3 years.
Posted: 05:51 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I think he means the goal this early in arb was to gain security without cutting into his FA years. Hell obviously be worth more by then and they want his next contract to reflect that. I dont think his goal is to get to free agency, rather but to get through these three years before revisiting contract talks with the phillies….
Posted: 05:56 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Geoff, I agree but for the agent to say “it didn’t….touch any free-agent years, which was our goal” is a little unsettling. Regardless, Hamels is the man and he’ll be here for 3 more years. Hard to find something wrong with that.
Posted: 06:07 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 BrianD
Give us this core of players for 3 more years and I know they’ll get at least one more WS title.
Posted: 06:35 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 mets09
Tim, Hamels is good ,but he is not better then Santana or C.C. Utley is the best SECOND basemen, not the best infielder. Lets not forget what Lidge was before the Phillies.
Posted: 09:17 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 mets09
just some bold statements is all im saying
Posted: 09:18 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Brett
it’s refreshing to see a Mets fan who doesn’t come here just to throw insults around.
Posted: 09:27 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 Robbi P
Mets09, Hamels has two Playoffs awards, how much does Santana have now?
I agree, it sucked for Santana since he didn’t have a bullpen but Hamels did not have any run support this year and made it to the playoffs and performed.
predictions
C.C. is going to blow it this year in pinstripes.
Jose Reyes is going to piss some people off
Utley will be the back-up to Uggla this year for All-Star(it pains me to say it)
Putz injured in mid-april
Santana, Hamels and Lowe and Josh Johnson will have around 5 wins by the end of April
Posted: 10:23 PM on January 17, 2009
Posts: 0 joshua
robbi, what does playoff awards have to do with a pitchers greatness? you cant win playoff awards if you’re not in them..
also, i know what you’re saying is predictions…but wow, can you come up with any predictions that aren’t asinine? what makes you think putz will be injured? CC blowing? Reyes will only piss off the rest of the NLE though, so i’ll give you that. Also, is utley going to be back in time to even back up uggla? it might be more beneficial to not even participate.
Posted: 10:03 AM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Jason
Couldn’t have said it better myself…
Posted: 10:19 AM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Santana is one of the best SP in baseball, but he HAS pitched in the postseason before. He’s 1-3 with a 3.97 ERA
Hamels is 4-1 with a 2.16 ERA
Also, J.J. Putz is high risk/high reward. Injuries cut short his season last year, so questioning his health for ’09 isn’t outlandish.
Posted: 11:05 AM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 keep it posi
Best LHP = Santana
Best Closer = K-Rod
Best Infielder = Reyes and Wright
Posted: 12:49 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
And according to the Boston Globe we have interest in Sheets, would be the steal of the off-season along-side whoever lands Orlando Hudson.
Posted: 01:18 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 David
Lets calm down about Hamels. He is a young ace. But lets not call him the best anything yet. He had a great postseason, but hes not the first pitcher to do that (beckett, smoltz, schilling, etc…) Lets not call a guy with no cy young awards, a 38-23 career record, no 200+k seasons, and an era of 3.43 the best lefty in baseball. Especially when somone like Santana is out there with 2 Cy Young’s, 109-51 career record, 5 straight 200+k seasons, and a career era of 3.11, with most of his career spent in the AL instead of the NL. I understand loving a guy bc hes your guy, but get real. Lidge was the best closer last year. However, one year as the best doesnt make you the best in the game. He is certainly in the conversation along with Rivera, K-rod, Nathan, Papelbon. But keep in mind, that is based on one year. He still has some work to do to catch the career numbers of everyone except Papelbon, and he (pap) has been more consistently good than Lidge has been. The best infielder is Albert Pujols. I dont know how that is debatable. If you mean the best middle infielder, then Utley is right there with Hanley, Reyes, Pedroia.
Posted: 01:20 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Lets not under appreciate Hamels too, David’s right we have to be careful about creating a false image but he is the best young starting pitcher in baseball outside of Tim Lincecum.
The work the Phils FO hve been doing in under-appreciated, we have missed on some prominent names but the guys are working hard at keeping a very competitve team on the field with the resources at hand. Just think back to the Cleveland team of the nineties, it can all fall apart by over-commiting yourself.
Posted: 01:34 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 James K.
Tim, this is a poor post.
If Hamels was no longer under team control and on the open market, surely he’d be commanding $15-$20 million a year. C’mon man, this is comparing apples and oranges and you know it too.
Posted: 03:36 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Sheets maybe? That would be sick –not that necessary– but if we could get him really cheap, why not?
Posted: 05:37 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Im ok with signing sheets actually. Its a risk but at least hes 30 and not 36 like Derek Lowe. Why not, yknow? I read the other day that they put Brett Myers back on the trading block and obviously Ryan Howard is gone….so theres like 28m right there freed up
Posted: 06:36 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Oh, and…same old Eagles. At least they made it interesting though. Now will they please go and get a running back a fullback and a wide reciever and another tight end.
Posted: 06:37 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Ax
excuse my language on this but,
the eagles are that hot chick that’s bad in bed, and the phil’s are that ugly broad that gives the best head. She might not be pretty, but she gets the job done. go phils
Posted: 08:39 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Phil
Best LHP = Santana
Best Closer = K-Rod
Best Infielder = Reyes and Wright
Best LHP= Santana I agree with 100% but I’d rather have Hamels because he’s 5 years younger.
Best closer= K-Rod…Rivera, Soria, Paps, Nathan, and Lidge are all better. He may have had the most saves, but he isn’t the best closer.
Best infielder= Reyes and Wright
Utley is on par with Wright and way better than Reyes. Pujols and A-Rod are the best infielders by far, and Hanley, Utley, and Cabrera are tied for 3rd. Utley is tied for 1st with Hanley for 1st for best middle infielder with Hanley. Acutally, I’d say Utley is better. He’s as good offensively and WAY better defensively. I’d even go out on a limb and say Utley can play SS better than Hanley, and Utley is the best defensive 2B in baseball, along with the best offensively. Utley may not have won a gold glove, but he should have. He got robbed from that honor. His +/- blew every other 2B out of the water, along with his rzr. Utley is the best middle infielder in baseball. Wright isn’t even the best 3B in baseball and Reyes isn’t even the best SS, so stop saying assenine things.
Posted: 08:43 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
“Tim, this is a poor post.
If Hamels was no longer under team control and on the open market, surely he’d be commanding $15-$20 million a year. C’mon man, this is comparing apples and oranges and you know it too.”
I know what you’re saying, but it doesn’t mean I’m wrong, or writing poorly. Point is the Phils have three great players signed for less money than A-Rod over one season. That’s it. Of course if Hamels wasn’t under team control he’d be worth more, like A-Rod, but it doesn’t change the fact that I’m writing about.
Posted: 11:05 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Robbi P
Since my ass is getting handed to me in this post allow me to try and explain my rationale. Both of these pitchers, Santana and Hamels, have been in postseason play and here are there stats
Johan
W-L G GS ERA
4 Lg Div Series 1-3 7 5 3.23
5 Postseason Ser 1-4 11 5 3.97
Hamels
2 Lg Div Series 1-1 2 2 1.84
4 Postseason Ser 3-1 6 6 2.16
Some people can pitch and some simply can’t
I will agree Santana had a great Cy Young quality year but Hamels had to deal with adversity as much as Santana
For the Putz, he had two long stints on the DL and never pitched as well as he did the other season. Bottom line, he is injury prone and will get injured in the high pressure city that is New York.
Reyes raised his hand in celebration and will try to top that again this year by doing something bold.
Utley will be back in mid-april so there is time for him to showcase his stuff. Uggla is going to put up another monster season.
I would also like to thank Griffin for backing me up on this.
The thing that might be interesting is if the Mets pick up Orlando hudson, a possibility!
Posted: 11:18 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 mets09
Robbi P, He didnt start his first year in the playoffs when he lost a game and had a 8.53 ERA. The last two times Santana was in the playoffs he went 1-1 with a 1.5 ERA. Hamels two awards are meaningless in the debate of whos better, which Santana clearly is right now.
Posted: 11:44 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 mets09
which makes his postseason STARTING ERA to 3.5.
Posted: 11:49 PM on January 18, 2009
Posts: 0 Woodman
muts09: Who has the ring? Hamels? ….. I thought so!
Posted: 07:38 AM on January 19, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Reyes pointing his finger to the sky (which he didn’t do until AFTER he hit the first base bag, and he left it up until AFTER he touched second) wasn’t even the worst part of it… before he even got into the dugout he started his fake-Sammy Sosa routine.. and he had a choreographed handshake/dance with at least 15 different people in the dugout.
The Marlins and Braves also hate the Mets, and hate Reyes because of this crap. I’m sure if I was a Mets fan it wouldn’t bother me as much, but as an outsider, he looks like a clown.
Johan Santana is better than Cole Hamels… SO FAR in his career.. but my arguement has been “For how much longer?” Is this the season that Hamels overtakes him, or is it 2010, or 2011 ?? Santana is a GREAT pitcher, top 3 … Hamels is somewhere in the top 10 right now… but as the Josh Beckett’s and Roy Oswalts, Lackey’s, etc.. start to fall.. the Hamels, Lincecum, and Volquezs’ start to climb
Posted: 10:56 AM on January 19, 2009
Posts: 0 Phil
Don M, don’t put Josh Beckett in the same conversation with Hamels and Santana. Beckett is ridiculously overrated because of his post season performances. Go look at his career stats. Beckett is only the 3rd best pitcher on his team. He’s not an ace. He’s a solid #2. I used to think he was an amazing pitcher, but he’s not. He gets a lot of wins because he has a great offense behind him. You’re right though, Hamels will eventually overtake Santana, but it won’t be until about 2011 or 2012.
Posted: 11:15 AM on January 19, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I also “used to think” he was an ace… that is my point… the more we see them, we figure out which guys are really the TOP 10 or whatever.
Lester and Dice K are definitely better than Beckett in my opinion
Posted: 11:42 AM on January 19, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Say what you want, the underlying point is that the Phillies built their championship… and we should feel good about that. Guys like Wade, Arbuckle (especially Arbuckle) and Amaro deserve a ton of credit for finding and refining talent. Gillick filled in the gaps and did what needed to be done to get us over that hump. At the end of the day, we ended up with the best 2B in baseball, a talented LH who proved that he has what it takes when it matters, the best run producer in baseball and the most effective closer in baseball (0 blown saves…); all for the price of one Madonna-loving 3B. When you build it, it costs less.
The Mets have done a good job of finding talent, too (and they have gone out and nabbed a few top notch free agents). Talent is certainly not the issue. The Phillies and this city have one heartbeat. We love them because their passion matches ours. They are high character guys and we never doubt that they’re going to go out and give it their all… you can’t measure that stuff. In my opinion, what happened two seasons ago (the collapse) fractured the spirit of the Mets… looking at the numbers, the Mets might even be more talented but that doesn’t matter if you lack that thing that beats inside your chest. You can talk about numbers until you’re blue in the face but when it’s crunch time, I know that I feel pretty good that any of our guys are capable of getting it done…
Posted: 11:51 AM on January 19, 2009