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Posted by Tim Malcolm, Mon, January 05, 2009 03:43 PM | Comments: 82
Posts
UPDATE (3:50 p.m.): We have an agreement. Burrell is a Ray. Buster Olney of ESPN reports it’s two years, $16 million.
***
Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports is reporting the Rays are near a deal with Pat Burrell for two years and $16 million.
The Phillies signed Raul Ibanez earlier in the offseason for three years and $31.5 million.
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Posts: 0 john of Albuquerque
I wish Pat great success as a designated hitter in the A.L.. This should give him a boost and protect his damaged feet and legs. Good Luck “Pat the Bat”. It will be interesting to see where Pat lands on the Phil’s Top 100 List
Posted: 03:54 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Malcolm
Good luck Pat.
Posted: 03:59 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Pat fdor 8 million per is a good deal for Tampa. Would you guys have taken him at 8 mil per on a 2 year deal over Ibanez?
Posted: 04:00 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
I think the more important question is, if the Phils waited a month, could they have signed Ibanez for less?
Considering the market is still oversaturated, I couldn’t think why not.
Posted: 04:02 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Ben
He balks at 2 years 22 million from the Phillies and accepts 2 years 16 million from Rays?
I’m starting to think the Phillies desperately overpaid for an aging bat just because they didn’t want to negotiate with Pat for fear of paying him too much. If they had any idea that Pat would sign a 2 year 16 million dollar deal would they have wanted Ibanez at all?
I’d rather have Pat at 2 years 20 million then Ibanez for 3 and 31.5. I’m really not liking Amaro Jr. right now.
Posted: 04:03 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Good point Tim, but weren’t the Angels rumored to want Ibanez if they lost out on Tex?
Posted: 04:04 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Rick
It really is looking like they overpaid for Ibanez.
Every indication I read was that they never actually made a formal offer to P the B.
Posted: 04:09 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
True, but there are so many available players.
Ben: I remember hearing from sources that the 2/$22M deal was never proposed. Regardless, Burrell for 2/$16M is ridiculously low. I would’ve taken Burrell back for two years, and then I was thinking that $12M per year was probably the ceiling.
Seriously, this is weird.
Posted: 04:09 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
This is shocking… would have rather had Pat for that price. Ibanez is probably an upgrade but Pat’s deal is cheaper, less risk and he’s righthanded. To think, we probably could have had him for 2 years and $14-15 million.
Posted: 04:10 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
Meanwhile the Cubs are closing in on a 3Y/$30M deal for Milton Bradley.
Boy, does this remind me of Adam Eaton all of a sudden. Not that Ibanez is like Eaton, but that the Phils wasted no time in signing a free agent, set the market, and ultimately overpaid tremendously for the guy they wanted.
Posted: 04:15 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Ben
If the Phillies were a team that spent money all the time then this wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but when the team constantly keeps themselves out of running for big time players because of payroll limitations, this kind of money on a guy like Ibanez kills them if he doesn’t work out. The whole situation just reeks of bad management. Now there will be even more pressure on Ibanez to deliver the value of his contract.
Posted: 04:18 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
Also, to point out, this is a fantastic signing for the Rays if they get it done. Simply marvelous.
Posted: 04:19 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Agreed, Tim… it’s pretty clear that they weren’t going to pay top dollar for the big names so they got impatient and went aggressively after “their guy.” Unfortunately, they must have missed the memo about the economy in crisis… couple that with a very saturated market and they ultimately ended up paying top dollar for a second tier FA.
Posted: 04:22 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Obviously the Phillies overpaid for Ibanez and gave him a third year even though he is four years older than Pat.
Where are all the people who loved the Ibanez signing now? It was a mistake then and it looks even more silly now.
At least we were able to get rid of that pesky first round draft pick as well!
Posted: 04:32 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed
It kinda sucks right now to be a Phillies fan seeing what is unfolding with Burrell. I love Pat, always have, always will. I might even root for Tampa as a team out of the AL just because they have Pat, even though I am about 45 minutes from Baltimore, but still. I really think the Phillies from the second the world series ended believed that they did not or would have the resources available to go after Burrell and so they approached it that way…by not really approaching it, or him at all. They figured he would get a deal closer to 4 years maybe 50 mil and that was out of the question for them, and rightfully so. A term that Amaro likes to use is due diligence…doesn’t seem like the Phillies did that with the Bat, a team leader and a class act. Damn shame if you ask me.
Posted: 04:35 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Craig
Given the logic that some people are using would it be fair to say that if the Yankees had held on a month or two they’d have signed CC for 6 years $32m?
Posted: 04:37 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I still liek Ibanez, however, it does seem like Ruben acted too soon. I think he acted WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too soon on Jamie Moyer. Way way way too soon.
I dont really care that Tampa got Burrell for 8mm though. Seriously guys, hes a DH. Thats where he should be anyway. Hell be a good DH for them too. I never wanted Milton Bradley so Im completely fine the Cubs will WASTE 30mm on him.
the phillies should now look for a right handed hitting 4th outfielder. the market is WAY low so maybe someone liek baldelli will be MAD cheap now.
i would also pursue other starting pitchers and see if i cant get areally good deal on one of them. same with the bullpen. because amaro misjudged the market, he has to react now. theres too much quality still out there to sit back and act like theyre done now. if you want to free up money for a starter, trade brett myers. if you want a better 4th outfielder, find a way to move some of jenkins’ 7mm contract. Theres plenty of good relief pitchers out there, plenty. there are some good starters and siome good 4th outfielder still floating around – Theyd better not be done. Ok Amaro, you acted too soon, this is an unprecedented free agent period. now, make the adjustment and go make some deals…
the ibanez move is fine, they just have to be flexible and adapt now.
Posted: 04:39 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 RBI Magazine
Did the Phils really offer Burrell $22M?
Posted: 04:42 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
this is really a great fit for tampa though. very very good signing. great value.
Posted: 04:43 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Justin
There’s always the possibility of overpaying for a player but if we didn’t sign Ibanez and he signs for the same with the Angels, it would have forced the Phils hand with either Burrell or Bradley and we all know the Phillies wouldnt have gotten Burrell for 2 at 16. Specially since he’d be the full-time LF, he’s basically playing a part time role in TB where he may hit against Lefties and be benched against righties.
Posted: 04:44 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Ibanez is a DH as well, and he’s four years older, and left-handed, and the Phillies lose a draft pick, and they gave Ibanez a third year.
Who else exactly was willing to give Ibanez a third year besides the Phillies?
Posted: 04:45 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 1650 Tim Malcolm
Craig: Totally different situations. Sabathia had teams fawning all over him. Ibanez had the Phils and Angels, and he prefered the Phils.
RBI: Burrell’s agent denied an offer.
Overall, yes, the Phils overpaid for Ibanez, considering how the market is starting to shake. But, to their credit, he’s the guy they wanted, he’s a safe choice, and he is a left fielder.
Posted: 04:46 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
He’s a left fielder is name only. He’s a terrible fielder by every fielding metric. Ibanez should be a DH somewhere.
Posted: 04:50 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Damn! 8 million per year? This makes the Ibanez deal look silly and stupid. Amaro should’ve waited….
And 2 years??
Oh and guess what? We overpaid for Moyer too! And even Chan Ho Park! And Derek Lowe may end up with a deal that’s smaller than most expected… We tied our own hands.
My C- for the offseason just became an F.
Posted: 04:50 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Steve
The Rays are going to be a force in the AL East for years to come. Their management may very well be the new gold standard for how to run a team (can you imagine saying that a couple years ago?), especially a small market team. While the Yankees are busy throwing ungodly amounts of money to Mark Teixiera and the Red Sox are paying $50 million just for the rights to talk to Dice-K, the Rays have better talent than both teams. Simply a great job of putting a team together. Good luck Pat, as long as you’re not playing against the Phils I’ll most definitely be rooting for you and the Rays!
Posted: 04:52 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Hes a good acquisition and hell be fine (ibanez) hes the exact type of hitter they needed. but they definitely overpaid by aboutu 2-3mm on average per year now with the burrell signing going official.
thats a GREAT signign by tampa. 8mm per year for a DH in this age? brilliant.
iwamura upton longoria pena burrell is a good top half of the lineup….
the way the market has developed doesnt irk me about ibanez…it irks me about moyer…they jumped the gun there…way too much money and doen way too soon…tahts the main mistake so far. i like keeping moyer i guess, but wait a little…they made an offer to lowe that was never confirmed and then gave up and went for moyer…i dont like that..you gotta be more patient…
Posted: 04:57 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 RichieAllen
Wouldnt it have been good business practice to float a lowball deal to Burrell back when he wanted to stay here?And we wanted him to stay?..At (say…2 at 16 mil )? DUH..
Especially since the difference between Burrell and Ibanez isnt vast.
Hindsight is easy,but the Phils keep claiming they dont have the big money….for the big guys…
Could we have used the difference to sign Lowell?
Posted: 04:58 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Ibanez is very similar to Burrell and it’s very apparent that the Phillies misread the market and overpaid Ibanez.
Unfortunately, I agree with Geoff that the Phillies did the same with Moyer.
Posted: 05:02 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
And guess who had a huge part in putting that team together, Steve… our director of professional scouting, Chuck LaMar.
I like Ibanez… we jumped the gun and tied our hands behind our back but Ibanez will help this team. It’s just a shame because we probably could have had him cheaper and 2 years (rather than 3). It could pan out…
Posted: 05:03 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Nobody knew what other teams were going to do.. if we didn’t sign Ibanez when we did, he’s sign somewhere else… be thankful we got him, and that the plan wasn’t to go from the scrap-heap
AND… thank god we don’t have Lowell right now at that MONSTER contract..
I think Richie might mean LOWE.. and all indications are that its Phillies-Mets for Lowe
Posted: 05:03 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
im glad we didnt sign mike lowell…but i think he means lowe too…
it is phillies mets braves for lowe last i saw. i do think theyre serious about him…i shudder to think how theyd trim payroll to fit him in though with room for a reliever and a RH bat still….myers, howard. i think theyll hang onto howard though, but myers is gone if they move in and grab lowe. i will guarantee that 100 percent: if they sign lowe myers is gone. given the arb raises to all those players….it just fits in with what the phillies would do in this situation if they did somehow get lowe…
Posted: 05:16 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 RBI Magazine
A few sources have told me the Rays and Burrell have agreed!
Posted: 05:22 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 MA Phanatic
ohhhhhh….wow
Posted: 05:32 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 MA Phanatic
in an unrelated note, tickets for the 2 Rays/Phillies spring training games just sold out…
Posted: 05:36 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Bloagie
Pat the Bat will wither away in the AL East against the far superior pitching he will be facing and being out of The Bank’s hitter friendly atmosphere. Ibanez is an upgrade and the phils had to pay the price because of demand for Ibanez. There was no demand for Pat, which is why his deal was so low. Simple Supply/Demand. I’ll take age and consistency over diminishing return
Posted: 06:06 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Andrew R.
Did we overpay for Ibanez? Yes. But with a payroll at $125M this season, what’s an extra $2M per year anyways? Ibanez comes to a smaller park with less ground to cover. With Victorino in CF, he can guard the line a little as well. The fact that he’s more athletic than Burrell, which will lead to more catches, better baserunning, and is more of a contact hitter, he will be just fine.
Who else was out there? Adam Dunn? Milton Bradley? Garrett Anderson? Juan Rivera? Baldelli? Come on now. Ibanez certainly was the safe choice and is definately a more rounded, polished player than the rest.
As for Moyer, you know what you are getting. 200 IP, a chance to win 30 out of 33 starts. Not bad. Imagine if the Phils didnt have that 2-month slump of no offense over the summer? 100 wins certainly would have been attainable. If Moyer won 18 games would you have a problem paying what we did? No.
The Phillies didn’t make splashes this off-season because we just didn’t have to. I think Ibanez is an upgrade over Burrell in all facets of the game. And since Burrell was getting $14.5M last year, and Ibanez will get $10M, we also cut some payroll in LF in the process as well. Phillies will be fine in 09!
Posted: 06:14 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 fred
Ibanez sucks. Less power than the bet, less walks, less defence and MORE age. Oh and much more money and a first round pick ! Amaro screwed up BAD.
Posted: 06:15 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 cxl
Pat wouldn’t have accepted 2yrs $16mil from the Phils. If your boss asked you to take a 40% paycut would you? It was only when someone else moved into his job and he was unemployed that he had to settle for less. Just like all of us if our job was filled. Its unfair to compare the two deals without taking that into consideration.
Check out the strong batting stats for Ibanez with
Posted: 06:15 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Andy
I’ll miss you, Pat. :(
Posted: 06:18 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Memphis
I agree with Bloagie — this is less about the corner OF market, and more about the market for Burrell. It just was not there. Wish the guy the best, but he was not in demand. Rube & Co got the guy they wanted. We can all agree or disagree on his choice, the years, the amount, but they were aggressive, beat out the Angels/Mets/Cubs. Bradley just got 3/30 from the Cubs, and he could actually be a bigger risk than Ibanez just because he has to play the field everyday now. Burrell and Ibanez are similar players, but the market obviously views them differently.
Posted: 06:25 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 mick
Phils won with “The Bat” , but do not forget that the guy hit .227 in May,.181 in Aug and .205 in Sept–when he slumps it is ugly
Posted: 06:28 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Frank
It was a good sign for the Rays…………..And Ibanez was a good sign for the Phillies done!
Posted: 06:46 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
My biggest problem with Burrell was that he was always so consistently inconsistent.. and I know that I say that a lot, but it’s the truth.
He started last season ice cold, finished last season hot, started this season hot, finished this season cold.. you need to know what you are getting day-in-day-out from your players, especially a veteran leader, and someone in the heart of the order.
I wish Pat nothing but the best, and I will actually root for the Rays even more this year now I’ve seen Upton, Longoria, Pena, Crawford, etc.. play so much.. I think they’ll be a good team again next year.. hopefully Burrell can step up and help vs the RedSox and Yankees
Best of luck Pat!!!
Posted: 06:55 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed
As reportd on ESPN “Burrell will donate a portion of his contract to the Rays Baseball Foundation, the official charity of the Rays, the team said in a statement. ”
So not only does he take less than what we expected to play for the Rays, but he is giving part of the money back.
Classy move by Burrell.
Makes the Phillies look kinda stupid IMO.
Also, please remember, yes Burrell signed for less than we expected but he is ONLY a DH…not a batter and a fielder…just a DH…less work means less money.
Posted: 07:25 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 fred
How on earth is Ibanez a perfect pit for the Phillies ?!?!?!?! He’s left handed and 37, give me a break.
Posted: 07:27 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Bonezy
Great Job Amaro! Overpay for a guy that is similar in everyway as Burrell except for power and average… And I don’t buy that a guy that plays the outfield is listed as either a left or right fielder. I would have loved a guy that can play any of those positions not just right, or left or wherever. I would have rathered Burrell.
Posted: 07:31 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 SJ Mike
Best wishes to Burrell down in Tampa. It’s a good fit for that club and a good fit for him, considering his Florida ties from college. I think he’ll be happy down there.
And it’ll also be nice to see Burrell beat up on the Yankees and Red Sox on a regular basis.
I think he’ll get a warm welcome upon his return.
Posted: 07:37 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 RiVLez
Good job to the Phillies front office on screwing this one up. I would’ve taken Burrell at 8M/yr over Ibanez. Seriously, do you guys really need another lefty in the middle of the order. I personally think Ibanez is going to mess with the lineup big time.
Posted: 07:38 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
RiVLeZ is a Mets fan…. a team that has possibly the WORST front office in baseball, yet the GM was signed to an extension…
Burrell CAN”T play the field.. he’s either 1b or a DH… even at $8 M thats not worth it for a guy that plays 2/3 of a baseball game… and when he’s in, he’s slmuping half the time
Posted: 07:44 PM on January 5, 2009
Posts: 0 phillyhater
oh good one Don M. The worst front office in baseball? You are kidding me right? hmmmm, Beltran, Delgado, Santana, K-Rod, Putz. I’m not saying these signings have translated into a championship (yet), but you surely cannot blame it on the front office. What more is he supposed to do?
I’m really sick of Phillies fans talking shit about the Mets. You remind me of a bunch of snobby, spoiled little kids on the playground.
na na na goo goo. lol
Posted: 08:19 PM on January 5, 2009