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These Phillies Aren’t Any Younger

Posted by Tim Malcolm, Wed, January 28, 2009 08:30 AM | Comments: 41
Posts, Raising Questions

In a hasty moment of mathematical effort, I found the 2009 Phillies 25-man roster could be older than the 1983 Phillies 25-man roster. Inches from 32 years of age, the 2009 Phils may be the oldest collection of Phillies ever.

This brand of Phils will get their age from Jamie Moyer (46), Matt Stairs (41) and Raul Ibanez (38). The 1983 Phils had more 38-plus players (Pete Rose, Tony Perez, Joe Morgan, Steve Carlton, Ron Reed, Tug McGraw), but where the new kids have the edge is in a plethora of 30-plus players. In fact, of the potential starting eight, only Ryan Howard and Shane Victorino won’t be 30 during the 2009 season.

For posterity sake, the 1980 Phillies were over 30 years old, like the 2008 team. The 1981 Phillies were a shade over 31, and had a great first half. But a bad post-strike second half.

Does it mean much? Probably not. But these Phils aren’t getting younger. Only the Astros should compete with the Phils for the National League’s grandfather title. At some point, the team might see the additions of Carlos Carrasco (21) and Lou Marson (22), but the youth remains to be seen. And with age comes more chances for injury, especially as innings pile up (see Hamels, Madson, Blanton, Durbin, Myers, Victorino, Werth). For now, the Phillies are comparable to the Wheeze Kids.

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Tim Malcolm has written 1947 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Tyler

    tim… i don’t think that this is really comparable to the ’83 team age wise… as you said we only have 3 guys over 38 whereas they had 6… its all just moyer being an ageless wonder… if you look at most of the other teams, they’re all in their primes or very close or on the back end, so I’m not that concerned

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    This is why you build a good farm system. I liked signing Ibanez, but hes way old and will probably be good for two years and hurt for one.

    Jamie Moyer..well, they had to resign him because of his reputation but as ST nears, I really am having serious concerns about this signing. I mean, yes he pitched well last year…but you made a TWO year committment to a 46 year old man…bad move. A one year committment, ok fine you can deal with that, but now hes untradeable if he flames out and unless he retires youre on the hook for all that money…stupid, very stupid. I mean, the moyer signing looks horrible now that people liek garland and sheets are out there and can still be had for cheap…

    i like the ibanez signing because of the type of hitter he is though and hes still a better guy to have here than abreu or dunn. but with moyer…i dunno man. thats one old ass dinosaur out there: prediction – Moyer is replaced by Carrasco mid-season after flaming out or getting injured..

     
  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    “The Wheeze Kids”, “one old ass dinosaur”, ??? Jamie’s younger than me, is it time to put us out to pasture? Not yet, my young lads, not yet! Geoff, let’s not assume the worst before ST even starts, Jamie may surprise all of us. BTW, you guys are making me feel ANCIENT, I think I still have some spunk left in me-lol.

     
  • Posts: 0 Richie

    Geoff, If he had signed the same deal last year you would have said the same exact thing as you are saying now, because 45 and 46 dont make a difference, so then he goes out and has the year that he had last year. Who is to say he is not going to do that or something close? He has never been injury prone with his style of throwing. He had the most wins on the team last year for crying out loud.

     
  • Posts: 0 Joe O'Phillie

    Age means less now than it did 26 years ago. Players are in much better shape now than back in the day. The important thing is that the core of the team, Utley, Howard, Rollins, Lidge, Victorino and Werth are in their prime years while Hamels is still very young.

    Stairs and Moyers skew average age. I am curious how the median age of the Phils compares to other teams.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Exactly…the median, not the average, is what should really matter.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    It’s just a randon anomoly, the fact is these Phils have some guys in their twilight years because it’s worked having those guys around, whatever their performance it’s made the guys around them better because it’s adding a veteran element to the highest degree. We’ve talked long and longer about guys like Howard and Myers and the kids coming up, whether or not you like names like Moyer, Ibanez, Park take comfort in the fact their brand professionalism will filter through the clubhouse.

    We talked about whether Happ was getting a fair deal the other day, makes sense with the rumors on Park’s preparation that Happ is pulling overtime to be ready for spring and what do you get, 2 better pitchers.

    The Yankees got old quick because things got stail, that’s not happening here and we have to keep our expectation grounded.

     
  • Posts: 0 Scott

    Raul Ibanez is 36 not 38.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Actually, when youreu that age and youre a pitcher, its never a good idea to have them signed to more than one year deals. you go year to year…thats just how it goes. Giving this guy two eyars is a horrible idea in a depression when money is tight. Ibanez was overpaid sure and that might not be so good in year 3 but for two years hell be fine at least.. pitchers are different though. when they go they go….and these hitters cant keep getting fooled by his SAME OLD routine. thers absolutely no excuse for the mets braves and marlins to not COMPLETELY smoke moyer off the mound every time out there. theyve seen him enough now and theres no excuse…the phillies are playing with fire here.

    ALL im asking out of jamie moyer, who should be considered out 5th starter at his age regardless of what all you people say, is to make it until carlos carrasco is ready…thats all.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    basically, anythign we get out of moyer at his age is a bonus because that just doesnt happen that often. they shoudl NOT rely as heavily on him as they do…they should make it comfortable for him and they have to an extent, but rolling him out there as a two or three is asking too much. hes a 4/5 now…WINS isnt the telling stat with starters anyway. its ERA and WHIP efficiency. moyers era was good last year, but the year before it was disgraceful…so what reason is there to think hes going to be consistant again when he simply hasnt been over the past few years..looking year to year

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Moyer isn’t about pitching 7 innings and less than 3 runs, it’s about him being in the clubhouse making everyone else do that. Age is such a bad card to pull out in baseball especially since it varies so much by position and skillset, those who want CC up now look at Bonderman or Beckett and then look at Lincecum and Price and start rooting for him to develop more before reaching the majors when he’s lights-out ready.

     
  • Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski

    I wonder what the age of the 1993 team was? I do see age being a factor already. Our core guys are entering their prime. We are lucky enough to have them entering it all at the same time but injuries will be more commonplace now. Feliz- back surgery; Rollins- sprained ankle that seemed to bother him most of the season; Utley- pretty significant hip injury; Howard- size and age already a concern as no long term deal is on the horizon. Outside of Moyer and Lidge, the pitching staff is relatively young for pitchers.

    But this reason is why I wanted to Phils to go after Manny! I mean put his bat in our lineup for the next 3-4 years and it looks much better than having Ibanez in there. Ibanez is already 37 or 38. Manny is a headache but I think our winning clubhouse would be able to handle him. Just the thought of him batting between Utley and Howard will remain a wet dream.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Guys like Howard and Rollins aren’t going to get better with the team getting younger, the only way they will sustain their top level on a more permenant basis is by having ‘less talented’ but more professional guys around them that will give those guys in their prime a way to elevate themselves to the A-Rod, Sabathia catagories.

    Amaro is addressing this.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    ^that said you groom your net generation and have a plan to get them up with purpose, we can emulate what Boston have done and they rank up there with the best in pretty much every element of the game and youth development.

     
  • Posts: 0 Billy Kelley

    Was Ibanez really a good signing. Is he 36 or 38? And where will we put his Left handed bat. Between Howard and Utley? How wise was it to give him 3 years? Amaro’s first mistake? Manny might have hit .400 surrounded by utley and Howard, defense be damned.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    And now Boston is really, really pissed that they have Josh Beckett instead of Hanley Ramirez …

    They bought their first championship… Pedro, Schilling, Manny, Big Papi, etc.

    last time they got some contribution from Ellsbury, who didn’t do a whole lot last year… Boston knows what they are doing without a doubt, but they also have a payroll of $200 M or so, which doesn’t hurt

     
  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    They were just saying on “Hotstove” that Manny and the Dodgers are $50M+ apart in negotiations, that Manny may end up signing somewhere for 1YR/10M? Over on Metsblog they are threatening to do some nastiness if the Mets don’t sign him, most of them want him really bad. The guy on Hotstove was saying that Manny is a HUGE asset in the dugout during games, he understands and studies pitchers much more than most hitters, and can tell what pitches they will throw to different batters. Is that true about him?

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Ibanez was a good signing becuase he’ll come through more in more situations than Burrell and avoid having to set-up those now or never innings. He may be older, he may be slower, he may not do this, that and feed your dog while air-guitaring in shallow left when the pitch is being thrown… But his impact will be greater, Moyer’s impact will be greater than another guy. By impact I mean when everything shakes out where does the team fall, not the individual.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    That’s the problem, everyone wants everything now and someone on staff to every so often tell them their boys doing it right. We don’t want to jump up into a market we can’t sustain but you have to keep adjusting. Boston may wish they hadn’t given up Hanley but Beckett and Lowell got them a championship with them both still on the payroll, they have Bucholz and all the other prospects with the ability to deal without crippling the farm at anytime and confidence most of those guys can produce enough to get going and improve down the road to be stars.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Manny is argueably the best RH hitter of our generation (or THIS generation) depending on how old you are..

    Manny, Pujols, A-rod ??? Manny’s got the big game experience too.. its a close call..

    He’s said to be a student of the game, studies, and works hard on his hitting.. but he’s a joke of a person.. he quit on his teammates and fans in Boston..

    and I’ll NEVER forget him doggin it down the firstbase line in game 7 of the ALCS at Yankee Stadium, (2003 I think).. it was late in the game, maybe in extra innings already… tied game he hits a grounder up the middle, played by the 2b, who gets Ramirez by 15 feet at firstbase, because he was practically walking down the line…. in extra innings, of a tied GAME 7 where the winner goes to the World Series.

    I think he’s a mess

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Take out 10% of Manny and replace it with 10% of Dustin Pedroia and you’ve got Ted Williams… The guy could have been the greatest if he understood how to achieve greatness.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jason

    Oiy vey. 32 eh?

     
  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    NJ, my dad’s favorite player of all time-Ted Williams. It’s a shame that Manny has that 10% d-bag in him, because he IS funny , like when he would disappear inside the Green Monster, come out tucking in his shirt, waving…. probably totally NOT funny when he’s on your team though.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    IbaƱez is 36. He’ll be 37 in June.

     
  • Posts: 0 Rick

    Lets have a vote!

    Should Georgie be put out to pasture? ;-)

    Yes votes = 1
    No votes = 0

    On a more serious note, though, I think A-rod will be considered the best (regular season) hitter of ALL time by the time he retires. He such a j@ck@$$ though. He should break Bonds HR record and do it without any known performance enhancing advantage that we know of.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    What A-Rod has going for him is he’s rehabilitated his image in the media, whether a farce on not he has the game first attitude and if that’s maintained he’ll get the treatment Bonds hasn’t received.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    All that “Manny being Manny” crap used to annoy the hell out of me.. its not like its a “four year old being a four year old”… he was his own one man circus, and unfortunately, the Mets are gaining interest in him by the minute

     
  • Posts: 0 Brooks

    I love my wheez kids = )

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    I’ve said this before. I’m from Souderton and Jamie Moyer is a hometown hero and a great person.

    With that being said, I was initially against signing Moyer but, when all things were considered and the terms were released, the deal is not that bad… would you rather have Burnett for 5 years and $80 million or Moyer for 2 years and $13 million? Mark my words, he will be motivated to pitch well and duplicate last year’s success. In addition to all of the clubhouse stuff, the guy has won 30 games over the past two seasons (that’s 1 more win than Cole Hamels has over the same time frame)… Given his style of pitching, there is really nothing that would indicate that he can’t pitch well for two more years. He’ll just keep throwing slower! The diving play that he made in the WS showed me a lot… his desire to win is still there and it is clear that he is still crafting his argument for the Hall of Fame. He believes that he belongs in the HOF and there’s really no better motivation than that.

    I would LOVE to see Manny in red pinstripes but there’s a reason that he’s still unsigned. His demands are off the charts and if he does sign for less than he’s worth (because he is worth far more than he’ll sign for), he’ll be an unhappy/disruptive Manny. I don’t want that. We have a guy that will fit right in and produce runs in the 5 or 6 hole.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    That diving play by Moyer was SO GOOD.. that even though the runner was called “safe”.. they still show that highlight all the time on MLB Network.. that play was amazing

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Re: Moyer… I was initially opposed to the deal (which I still think should’ve been 1 yr, not 2)… But this guy is a HUGE plus for our pitching staff… it has a ripple effect on Hamels, Kendrick, Happ…. and the whole club. I was just watching the Perfect Season DVD and when they announced Jamie to speak at the parade, all of the players instantly stood up. He should continue to be No.3 unless Blanton and Happ prove that they are more effective than him. (Plus, it would keep a L-R-L-R-L rotation)

    I just hope they don’t hammer him this year with his ultra slow pitches and borderline calls by the umps. I want to believe in the guy, but there are plenty of reasons out there to feel doubtful about it.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Got heart??

    So our average age is 32… these guys have “it” and that’s more important than any statistic or age metric. I can’t wait until the season starts.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    32 is still baseball prime… basketball and football, sports where you are constantly sprinting, that might be considered “old” but in baseball, that still translates into EXPERIENCED..

    I think the Phillies win close to 90 games this year, and depending on pitching, maybe make another postseason run..

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I think the Philllies will only make a big rotation move if they get smeone in return as part of a package WHEN they trade howard in june/july. I hope moyer holds up but if he doesnt i have full faith in carrasco coming up if he shows hes ready. i wonder if theyll be able to get another bat in return though…thats why signing wigginton would benefit..if they move howard at least you have SOMEONE to plug in who has some kind of power mid-season and you dont have to scramble wildly to find a slugger…i mean..it kind of gives some minor level of protection when they decide to move him in july…

     
  • Posts: 0 Richie Allen

    And now for something different……I just remembered in the summer we had some visits by Darren Daulton…..
    Whoever you are ,we need some inspiration.That stuff was really funny.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If they move Howard before they have actual options to replace him (or attempt to replace him) then its a pointless move..

    Next year at the deadline, not this year..

    See if Taylor or Brown can play LF, and move Ibanez to 1b… or see if Donald can play 2b, move Utley to 1b…. not just move Howard for the hell of it, and have a part-time player take over and weaken the lineup

     
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  • Posts: 0 Kevv

    You are out of your tree if you actually believe they’re going to move him, they control him for i believe the next three years. If you take howard out of the lineup, then you will see utleys numbers drop somewhat, because they will definitly pitch around him to face whomever behind him.

    Even when howard goes on those terrible slumps, teams still do not want to pitch him, it has a ripple effect on the line up. So they will not just trade him for some slop bullshit A and AA pitchers, etc.

     
  • Posts: 0 ActuallyChilled

    shaaaaaaaaaane. vick

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Kevv sorry but teams don’t want to pitch to him? Don’t you remember his match-up with Trevor Miller in the World Series… Even average pitches feasted on him in his slumps and kept him relitavely quiet outside his streaks.

     
  • Posts: 0 Kevv

    trevor miller his a left handed relieve specialist, thats his job.

     
 
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