Phillies Nation

Also, Pat Burrell made 14 million this past year, compared to Ryans 10 million, who had the better year? Howard. But no one bashes burrell saying he didn’t deserve the 14 mil, granted it was in his contract, but still, if Burrell made 14, Howards 18, seems rather plausible

Geoff… but then don’t hate the playa… hate the game

Whose to say they dont deserve 30 million dollars? You? If owners/teams are willing to pay players that much money to them, then it looks like they deserve it. I agree that players should be making 25-30 mil a year, but thats the the players faults, thats the leagues fault for not implementing a salary cap. Granted they do play the hardest sport in the world, and if they consistently put up hall of fame numbers year in and year out, how can you deny them the money they deserve?

thats not the players fault*, damn i cant type today

To Chuck P ..I swear Michael Barkan is looking at Phillies Nation on his computer when he asks his panel those questions on the Phils.Every question is eventually on this blog every day .

SO uhmm again, why are you made at Ryan Howard.. he’s just trying to get what he’s got coming to him..

There are LOTS of bad contracts in baseball.. but Howard does in fact deserve to be paid as one of the best in the game..

If the best in the game happen to make $18 M + per year.. that ain’t his fault

I agree with what your saying geoff in regards to manny, but i have to also agree with Don, he is just basing what he thinks he deserves on what other people make, that havent put up the same numbers as he has, and addict? lol iunno about that analogy

So , essentially Geoff, you expect Ryan Howard to go in to Amaro’s office and say, “well, I think I’m worth 18M, but because there’s a recession and I like it here, I’ll take the 14M”? On what planet does that happen? That would pretty much be admitting he doesn’t think he’s that good, and major league players in any sport can’t do that, it’s not the way it works.

um..people with character do that…but hey this is america…since when do we care about character and doign the right thing?

Geoff, is their THAT much of a difference in the phillies paying him 14 MIL or 18 MIL? So if he wins in ARB, and gets 4 more million, they should promply trade him to either the Mets or Yankees, because they are the only teams in baseball that can afford to pay someone 18 million dollars per year. You are indeed, out of your tree.

The phillies trade howard, watch the fan base explode on Amaro, criticize him in every aspect, and watch the team fail to compete for another title.

It says something that everyone on this forum, disagrees with you, lol

I would applaud Amaro for that…of course. Thats why youre hired as the GM. Part of this is the Phillies failure as well. they have also failed, with howard, to come to an agreement of any sort. even though they have been MORE than reasonable. they have bent over backwards for him and he has laughed it off as an insult. anyone with that attitude has no character and thats something we dont need.

now you put a different face on in trade negotiations…you act like this guys the greatest player of all time and that you dont have to get rid of him and you SQUEEZE every last good prospect out of them that you can manage…

How is this the phillies failure? They control him till 2011. They are in no need and or rush to trade him. I believe if they phillies were smart, they would go to him and either offer him like 3/20 or 5/100 mil, then he would be happy and get his money, you would also have the core of the team locked up long term. But i believe the phillies will do that, because they made that mistake with burrell giving him a monster contract early in his career to appease him, and they thought they were locking up a future MVP, but as we know he was a good and solid player, but not at the money he was signed with, they should of kept him for less.

It would save them money in the long run to lock him up, since if he continues to put up the numbers he has been, his ARB number will just continue to rise, but i dont think they want to get burned by giving him a long term deal, incase he does flare out, which i doubt he will

3/60* sorry, i need to proof read, you wouldnt know im in college

Any player seeking a long-term deal has to assess the situation and ask for want he/his agent thinks is right, assuming a lot of risk if they don’t agree to a long-term deal and play year to year. You could argue that Hamels took a deal that is below what he might get in a better economy. He chose stability over the chance at getting more. Madson did the same. Does that make them right and Howard wrong? Does that make them “team” players and Howard not? No, Howard just has a higher tolerance of risk.

Howard is playing year to year because he wants more than the Phils have offered for a long-term deal. That’s his right, he’s obviously comfortable with the risk of not signing a long-term deal, and utilizing the current system in place to set his salary year to year. He gets hit by a pitch, busts his wrist, he’s jeopardizing his long-term revenue potential. That’s his choice.

I don’t have any problem with Howard’s stance. He’s team controlled, I think (could be wrong), for 2 more seasons. If that’s all we get out of him, assuming he’s healthy and productive, I’m not gonna cry about it. From the team’s perspective, going year to year isn’t terrible, and all the risk is on Howard.

Part of my take on Howard is that — no matter how well he hits it now — guys his size typically don’t age well, the bat slows down, the legs get worse, and he won’t get any better in the field, so would we really want him in a salary-eating 5-7 year deal anyway? The answer may be, maybe at 15-18M per, but no more than that. So he plays 2 more years, even at 18M, hits the market and heads to the AL to DH. For me, not the end of the world. Certainly we would miss the production, there’s no question about that, but power-hitting 1Bs are relatively easy to find, like aging corner outfielders.

And I’ve read some places (Neyer included) that leads me to believe that Howard will not likely win his case and get the 18M. But even if he wins, it’s not the end of the world. To me, this is not just about his salary in 2009 or 2010, it’s about how badly do we want to take on the risk of a long-term Howard deal, and my sense is that Rube is only interested at the same reasonable-to-low rate, shortish term that we offered to Hamels and Madson. Howard would rather go year to year? Cool. Maybe it’s to his advantage in this particular depressed year, but long-term, it’s still a big risk.

Geoff — what sort of reasonable long-term deal would you like to see the Phils offer and Howard sign? I could see the Phils offering 5/90. But that looks absolutely ridiculous next to 8/180 for Teixeira, and Howard, a year older, has an MVP, home run crowns, and a championship.

You’re asking Howard to ignore what other players are making and say, hey Rube, players make way too much money these days, it’s crazy out there, but I’ll sign for way less than Tex. Really hard to blame/pile on Howard for not doing that.

3/60, 5/100. wow. first of all he would balk at that since he specifically states he wants more than that. second, even that is absolutely outrareous. if he gets 20M a year with this team and strikes out that much again..id throw a full drink at him…from the nosebleed section.

you have to find a suitable replacement. they may not be as prolific with power but they also might not strike out as much and consequently still help the team with a better batting average….

see thats the problem with the yankees. the yankess are bad for baseball because they screw this whole thing up. howards size does indeed indicate hell be a stiff…i mean, DH in a few years anyway so you try and keep him through age 32. Id offer (now, i mean) 4 years 60M, which is VERY reasonable. thats compeltely generous. but the DAMNED yankees go and offer insane money over the years escalating contracts and ressetting the market almost every year. so ebcause they overpayed for texeira you go and say “this deal for tex is illegitimate because the yankees are a wreckless team. we dont consider their behavior indicative of a rational entity, now…we have given you a very generous offer and youd be set for life even with “just” 60M. if you want to be paid the same amoutn of money as mark texeira and youre adamant about that we will happily make your wish come true and trade you to the yankees so you can talk to them about that type of money because we dont do business that way.”

“bring in a bat or an arm who could contribute in some kind of positive role”

…. NO bat in baseball is as productive as Howard, and to get a difference making pitcher, he’s going to demand just about the samen money that Howard wants..

A reliever and a RH bat don’t matter one bit, because if you trade Ryan Howard.. you won’t be playing in any meaningful postseason games anyway. boom.

I love how people trash the Yankees for how much money they spend, blah blah. They make the money, and then they spend the money to try and put a championship product on the field, whether you agree or disagree with it is up to you. But, Geoff, i bet that if the phillies had the revenue that the yankees have, and were able to spend all that money, you wouldn’t be trashing the phillies for doing what the yankees do, if the roles were reversed, and who cares how much money they spend, they afford it and its not like its coming out of your pocket.

Memphis great post, totally agree with you.

I dont think its about how much money howard gets, whether its 100 mil or 200 mil, i believe he just wants to be recognized for what he puts up, the money isn’t all of it, its just the recognition, becas he believes he is in the same category as Tex.

Also with the strike outs, hes a power hitter, he is going to strike out a shit load, but he also is going to lead the league in homers and rbis, would you rather him hit .320, 20 homers and 85 rbis with less strike outs or .260 50 homers 150 rbis and 150+ k’s, ill take the latter. His power makes him who he is, and you cant argue with the production, awards (MVP,ROY, and top 3 in the MVP in years he didnt win it, and WS Ring).

I don’t blame or fault the Yankees… like I said, that is Steinbrenner’s prerogative. If that is their business model (overpaying for the big-name free-agents), then so be it… I think that MLB needs to keep an eye on the situation (with respect to the slowed economy). In its current form, baseball has been successful; having the highest payroll hasn’t guaranteed anyone a championship but it’s hard for small markets to generate a fan base without big names. I really think that Selig understands this and is ok with this. Baseball is set up to allow for four or five perpetual big market competitors and two or three small market challengers… the big market teams are always going to be competitive because they can afford to buy competitive teams. Otherwise, you could have dynasties in places like Kansas City and Milwaukee (which is fine if you live in KC or MIL). The danger is that the Yankees will eventually spend themselves into bankruptcy. What happens if people stop buying merchandise? The Yankees and their luxury tax payments are critical to the success of baseball. So far, it has worked but times are a bit different now, aren’t they?

yo tim, what ever happened to the nickname thing

a bucket of baseballs…who cares?

Id prefer Kevin youkilis…but hes signed long term. Youd basically have to make sure Michael Taylor is ready and them move Ibanez to first. If not, youd have to bring in a guy. too far in teh future to tell gotta see whos available..

I could have guessed that… are you a Red Sox fan? You post about the Red Sox an awful lot.

Youkilis is one of the most underrated players in the game… and he still comes up short. They’re easy to compare because they have had similar careers so far but they’re not on the same level. Youk is a good player… Howard has proven to be a historic player. Youk’s deal is great for him but Howard is just better. Howard will not be able to live up to his contract but you can’t argue with what he’s done… it’s unprecedented in baseball.

And that’s the part that I don’t get… he has done something historic and we act like those numbers are easily replaceable… well guess what, they’re not. Can we win without him??? Sure, but you have to go back to Ted Williams to find a guy that has had as many HR/RBI as he has had in his first few years’ in the bigs. Would we have won without him?? I’m not so sure.

I hate the Red Sox actually…and teh Yankees. The red sox spent almost as much as the yankees sometimes and act like they dont…youd have to replace howard with a solid guy like youk coupled with even more pitching as well i think. you cant ignore the numbers. im not saying you can replace him with anyone, but I mean its not the end of the world either if hes moved.