Comments on: Together, Rollins And Howard Are The Heart Of Phillies

By: bigmyc

bigmyc — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 01:39:26 +0000

Tim, gotta say that this was a slightly odd (not a necessarily a bad thing) piece. There is no disputing the influence that these two marquee names, or rather, personalities have on the Phillies. However, just as many have already mentioned the California Perfectionists of Cole and Chase, you could make a great case for the supply line of Dobbs, Werth, Ruiz, Feliz and even Jenkins as perfect for the job they had to do. The bullpen, though so NOT underrated, should get clubhouse points big time.

My point; everybody had a job to do and everybody’s job was crucial to the total goal and everybody held it up.

Jamie Moyer might be a guy who I wouldn’t pair with anyone because what he did, he did on his own, he was just given one hell of a canvas to work upon.

I just don’t believe that JR and RyHo are much more important than the BP itself or Utley and Rollins or that durable, consistent starting rotation or RyHo and Burrell or the twin pronged spark plug of Vic and JRoll and etc……

By: Richie Allen

Richie Allen — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 18:16:09 +0000

When I think of years past..because I’ve been a fan since the 60′s,I think this whole argument with Howard’s contract is kind of ironic.Its amazing to me not that we’ll pay him either 14 or 18 mil,But that all these players want to stay here or come to Philly.
I’m not used to that.But I like it…
As long as he hits 45/145..homers/RBI..I’ll be happy year to year.(I think with his body,he’s crazy not to sign a longer one)

Some of you may not have been around long enough to remember the times when no one wanted to come here or stay here.But I remember ,and I’m so happy that we have the present situation.

By: Chuck P

Chuck P — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 15:42:57 +0000

Good point, Kev. Obviuosly, he’s trying to get paid but that’s not his motivation and he’s certainly not TO. Regardless what happens, he’s not going to complain about what he gets… $14 million or $18 million… and some guys wouldn’t take that stance. He could hold a grudge against the Phillies but he doesn’t and he’s geniune about his desire to remain in Philadelphia. In hindsight, it’s pretty obvious that he could have been called up earlier; they probably wasted a year and a half of his major league career. Other teams were salivating over Ryan Howard… we handcuffed ourselves to sell tickets at the expense of Ryan Howard. We all know how it feels to be working for, or playing behind, someone that is less talented than you…

By: Kev

Kev — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:19:59 +0000

Shag Delta, everyone agrees with you besides Ge-Off.

By: Kev

Kev — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:17:41 +0000

I can’t get over how discusted Geoff is over Howards “actions”. Did any1 see his interview on CSN with Leslie Gudel? He was in Tampa, as laid back as hell. And when he was asked whether he would like to sign a long term contract and retire as a philly, he said, ” that be wonderful” and when asked if he thinks he could sign a long term deal he said ” hopefully”. So i dont believe that his actions are out of line whatsoever. He isn’t pulling a TO and saying how its a disgrace and how he doesn’t have enough money to feed his family. His agents are doing their job, and its not like they pulled 18 million out of their ass, they did research and believe that with his numbers hes put up, the awards, that 18 mil is what his agents believe he is worth.
Why on Gods earth is that so out of line?

By: shag beta sigma delta

shag beta sigma delta — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 04:05:14 +0000

OK enough of all you idiots who want to trade Howard. You have him for two more years of arbitartion right? So you win or lose this year pay him 14 or 18 million, he carries the team for the last two months of the year and gets them back in the playoffs and strikes out 200 times 45 hr 140 rbi. And now he asks for 22 mil and phillies offer 19, again win or lose you pay. Smart Phillie fans knew this two years ago that he would go year to year until his arbitration was over, then and only then do you discuss trading him in his last year of arbitrartion, or just let him go who cares if he gives you two three more solid power hitter years, including strike outs, and let get what he can on the open market you get one or two more world series titles and he walks no problem he got paid and would be considered a great phillie. Stop all this bashing the guy. I knew he was going year to year you accept that, like another post said it is his risk, not the phillies, God forbid he blows out a knee what will he get on the open market next year 8 mil plus a bunch of incentives. Why must we always bash these guys they just gave us a great season and a world championship. I dont think he will be all pouty if he loses arbitration, he will go out and still play hard and hit home runs and drive in runs. I mean seriously, he had a bad average last year but isnt he a career 270 hitter I ll take that with 200 strikeouts. The core of this team is controled by the team until 2011 any way right. So sit back and watch the big guy carry the team for a couple of months for the next few years. And I dont know who you are watching at first base when you say he has no heart, he hustles, plays hard and from all accounts I have heard he is great in the locker room. So stop bashing the big guy and cheer when we win it all again next year with this team

By: metsblow4show

metsblow4show — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:52:50 +0000

It’s a good thing that we don’t charge Tim for each of our posts, because Geoff would be making Ryan Howard money ! LMAO

By: metsblow4show

metsblow4show — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:44:49 +0000

Would someone please call Geoff’s doctor, he is definetly off his meds again. geez

By: Links of the Day: 1.29.08 « We’re the Team to Beat

Links of the Day: 1.29.08 « We’re the Team to Beat — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:35:40 +0000

[...] Nation outlines how Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins are the hearts of the Phillies. Some good stats about their [...]

By: Brooks

Brooks — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 01:18:59 +0000

Amazing, I thought the number of people hitting this site was on a slight. This has to be one of the highest responses, ever.

Some terrific points by a lot of you. I am wondering this; what are Ryan Howards individual goals? Aside from the monetary gain, what does he have in mind personally? Does he want to be the team leader? Most of us agree that he is not, his persona does not lend one to believe that he is one to lead. If Ryan displayed a determination to be a team leader, it might draw him to be more aggresive as a player specifically as a batter. More aggresive would mean hitting with more authority, hopefully to the left side of the infield –
Thoughts?

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:53:04 +0000

Well, not 20+. . I’m going with Memphis on that.

By: Malcolm

Malcolm — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:51:01 +0000

Geoff, gosh brother, it’s professional sports. In what way has Howard acted that is really so extreme and disgusting? In all of baseball history, how is he any different? The lack of respect some of our fans show him is sometimes head-turning. He was a major cog in our championship machine. Every little thing he does is magnified because of the scale of public exposure. Can you really blame him for the actions he has taken in his particular field of work? If I was in demand by an employer, I’d act the same way, but unfortunately, I’m not. Sports are a dream life, as with all forms of celebrity. Sure, players are overpaid, but we all know that, and we still watch, we still have heart for the game. That’s not going to change. You’re just making a bigger deal about it this year because of the economy. Well, I’m dealing with my own problems like everybody else, I want to be here to enjoy the Phillies- to thank them with my love of the game. I love having an intimidating hitter like Howard on the team, but I’m not going to judge him as a man. If the country wasn’t in a recession, Ryan Howard would be a 20+ mil guy. This year, I think he will make 16.5 and play his hand another year and gamble on the economy regaining strength. I think mostly everybody here has done a really great job making a counterpoint to support Rhyno. I’m just hoping he doesn’t pull a Mo Vaughn.

By: jan

jan — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:48:55 +0000

yea and were geint him too!

By: dan

dan — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:19:26 +0000

anyone hear about the Manny Rally met fans are having tonight outside of SNY studios @ 7, while Mets Hot Stove is on?

By: Memphis

Memphis — Fri, 30 Jan 2009 00:04:08 +0000

If you were Howard, how much would you ask for? You’re a player for which there are almost no modern historical comparisons. You’ve already smashed the mold (and bank) once in arbitration. You’re coming off another near-MVP season.

Do you be “proper” as Manny suggests? Maybe the 14-15M as Geoff suggests, basically the same value the Phils submitted? Nothing wrong with that number. This is the Pujols-Berkman-Chipper-Magglio-A Ramirez level, slightly more than Ortiz-Soriano-D Lee-Beltre. As a near-MVP, you’re essentially as good or better than most of these guys – right now. You can argue that you contended for the MVP against Pujols and Berkman, and should be considered in their class.

Or do you go for a higher, but still reasonable number? After all, you argue, you’re on the upswing of your career. 15-16M level: Guerrero-Delgado-Thome-Helton-Abreu. 18-19M gets you to Beltran. Above that (all of these numbers are 2008) are guys like Manny, Jeter, A-Rod, Giambi. In 2009, you can add Teixeira – don’t know his year by year number but an average of 22.5M – and Giambi, Abreu drop out. For the purposes of this debate, let’s not even look at the Yankees-Red Sox influenced guys over 20M.

I think it’s reasonable to say, looking at the comparables, wow, 18M is pretty high. But is it greedy to go for 18M, rather than 14-16M? To me, no. To others, yes. I do think it’s customary to stretch it as far as you reasonably think you can go, so 18M is high, but not crazy high. Not with Howard’s resume. Still, I think he’ll lose. The Phillies didn’t low-ball and set themselves up to get burned, like last year.

Check out Stark’s take:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090129

By: Don M

Don M — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:30:56 +0000

$7 M offer to him last year was low…. $14 M even seems a little low, I figured he’d get about $15…. I don’t blame him one bit for trying to get what he, and his agent, and common knowledge think he’s worth

By: Chuck P

Chuck P — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:18:44 +0000

Ryan Howard understands that it’s a lot of money but I don’t think that he knows what he’s worth. How would he know whether he should be asking for $14 million or $18 million? His agent has told him that his numbers are unprecedented… which they are. There is nobody to compare him to and that
is why he WON the arbitration case last year (record and all).

Is $4 million worth labeling Ryan Howard the antichrist??

The Phillies played hardball and lost last year… doesn’t that tell you something? The arbitrators sided with the kid so his demands are obviously were not out of line. We’ll see what happens this year but everyone is wayyyy too amped up over this.

By: Manny

Manny — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:14:41 +0000

Not only in the dollar amount, but in his willingness to go to the final instances without the slightest desire to compromise. The ‘my way or the highway’ attitude. The ‘I’m God,’ and ‘irreplaceable’ behavior.

Doesn’t click with me that well. Definitely, NOT humble.

By: Don M

Don M — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:04:32 +0000

Are you disappointed in the dollar amount?

Would you be disappointed if he asked for $16 M ?

I don’t think it has anything to do with him being humble or not… he’s said to be one of the nicest guys in professional sports, regardless of what Geoff or anyone else wants to say

By: Don M

Don M — Thu, 29 Jan 2009 23:02:38 +0000

To me it comes down to the simple fact that Howard is better than most of the players that make more money than he does.. so how do you determine what he should be paid? That is what arbitration is for.. Greedy? Wouldn’t EVERYONE like to make as much money as they could? Pay off a house, help your family be squared away for life..

I completely understand people being mad about the fact that certain players get paid too much money.. but be mad at the fact that there is no salary cap, or that the owners and agents, etc. come up with these figures.. don’t be mad at the player for seeking what he feels he is enabled to, based on what his co-workers make.. he’s trying to make the most, just as we all would.. and anyone that says otherwise is lying