Phillies Nation

Well stated, Tim. I was not a big fan of the Ibanez deal at the time because it appeared that Amaro had jumped the market. Obviously that’s proven itself true as the offseason’s worn on. The Phillies will say that Ibanez is a better clubhouse guy, etc., but that doesn’t account for a $26 million discrepancy.

Still, it’s hard to hammer Amaro for the offseason in general. Ibanez was a bad mistake, but I give him an A- for how he handled the rest of the offseason.

If Abreu was platooning with Werth last year, this team would have still won the World Series. Abreu is better than Ibanez, but then again, Burrell is better than Ibanez as well.

Ruben made a mistake, but once the season starts, it doesn’t matter. It only matters once Ibanez starts declining and his contract makes him impossible to jettison. Until then, go Ibanez!!

Here’s a snippet from a Baseball Prospectus chat two days ago:

“Tim (DC): Christina, which multi-year contract given to a hitter this off-season will look regrettable within 18 months? Bradley? Teixiera? Howard?

Christina Kahrl: I’d pick Bradley, which is admittedly a bit gutless, but the guy’s track record for getting hurt is remarkable, and while it might be cool if he turns into the latter-day Rodman who doesn’t have to be the center of attention on a team already stocked with a lot of talent, it’s also a bit of wishcasting. I hope he pans out, but I’m a skeptic.

Aaron (YYZ): Surely the Ibanez deal will look worse than the Bradley deal a year and a half from now.

Christina Kahrl: Sure, but it just as surely looks worse right now, and looked worse a month ago.”

Totally agree! Even after the rays signed Burrell for 2 yrs at 16 million I thought this. But Abreu signs for $5 million??? Furthermore, was anybody knocking down Ibanez’s door besides us to sign him?

I agree. Hes a good player still, but its a bad contract. I mean, they really did vastly overpay for him. They jumped the gun. They jumped the gun with moyer too. But he didnt really understand that were in a depression and most of the teams in mlb really didnt want to spend a lot of money.

But the way I see it..they penny-pinched for years and they finally build a winner so theyre stuck with a huge payroll for a while now, liek it or not. i mean, eaton and jenkins and feliz will take a good chunk of change out of the payroll when they leave, and youd have to assume of myers or blanton will come off the payroll after the season (im thinking whichever of the two has a better year, logically, would get the extension). moyer comes off the books after another year and that same year victorino and werth would both need to be given extensions.

so you might see about 30M or so come off the payroll but the payroll still is going to be qquite large for at least 3 more years…but when youre an elite team thats what happens.

I see your argument here but I can’t say amaro is totally at fault. It was a tough market for free agent outfielders in our price range. He had two options, give a lot of money now and get a sure thing like ibanez, or wait it out and wait for players to settle for less at the risk of getting a smaller name player. If you had told me that abreu would not have been signed by feburary back in november id have laughed at you

Abreu – cheap, but not sure he would have been great in the clubhouse.

Amaro’s grade is on pause until we see what Ibanez does.

Thome had a lot more heart then Abreu ever did, and honestly, I wasn’t sad to see Bobby go. No regrets there, imo.

Amaro made a rookie mistake. Hopefully Ibanez doesn’t turn out to be another overpaid bum like Adam Eaton.

If so we need to kick Amaro out of town… he has a lot riding on Ibanez

If the phillies would of offered ibanez a smaller deal or waited for the price to go down, he would of signed with the mets. yeah it looks like you overpayed for him, but at the time, he was being looked at by a multiple of teams, so he was going to take the best contract available and that was the phillies. Abreu got a 1 year contract for a reason, hes a decent hitter, not clutch, no heart, and no leadership. His best attribute is getting down 0-2 and working a walk.

Tim you’re basing these stats great but the one thing you didn’t factor in is the fact that Abreu hit in a stacked Yankee lineup where he wasn’t a player who was depended on to get the big hit. Ibanez is a player who was their main hitter in Seattle so those numbers are slightly different when you compare the players hitting around Abreu with the players hitting around Ibanez the numbers don’t look as bad. Put Ibanez in the Phillies lineup where he just has to mop up what Utley and Howard can’t bring in and all his numbers get better.

If Ibanez, Bradley, and Dunn all got $10 M a year… Burrell got $8… I would say that Abreu was underpaid, more than that we overpaid for Ibanez..

Burrell is awsome, I will miss him. Ibanez has the potential to be awsome with this team, and if he is, I will be glad that he has the contract to keep him happy and keep him here. This team rules!

They can have Abreu at any price. He is a cancer. we are way better off without him. We overpaid for Ibanez that is true. We just hope he puts up the numbers we expect. I think he will. Can’t wait for Spring Training….

We are way better off without the Bobby Abreu experience……been there done that. Ibanez might be a bit high but can’t be too critical of this off season.

On a different note looking at espn and other sites…..didn’t the Phillies win the world series. I know the whole world is all A Rod all the time now but looking back at this off season, has there been a champion that got less attention nationally?

“when was the last time this guy played in the playoffs?”
Ibanez was on the 2000 Mariners and went 3 for 17 with 3 singles. If Bobby Abreu had done that, Phillies fans would murder him, but Ibanez did that with someone else, so it’s ok.

It was his first playoff appearence, remind me how Utley, Howard, and Rollins hit in their first playoff series against the Rockies…

I just don’t understand why people are already killing the dude when spring training hasn’t even started yet, give the man a chance, all he wants to do is win and produce, god damn

Griffin, show Kev those animated images/mini-videos with Ibañez throwing the ball….

Kev, in regards to Ibanez’s terrible defense, I’m basing it on the fact that no one ever has said that he’s not a horrible fielder. Maybe a 37 year old will find the fountain of youth and will discover newfound range out in LF, or maybe he’ll be what he’s been for years-a terrible fielder.

I agree with what you just said Scott B. But 5M extra for heart is pretty expensive. We got him expensive, but I’m excited to see him contribute to our team and bring a professional attitude to our ball club.

Its Left Field people, he doesn’t need to be Willy Mays, just catch the routine ones, and get the ball in quick.

Fair enough Kev, but let’s not go around saying “have you watched an entire season or are you basing it on what experts say”. Ibanez is a terrible fielder and so was Burrell. Ibanez is a DH who has to play LF this year much like Burrell was a DH playing LF last year who gets to DH this year.

This probably is his worst play ever, so let’s not think he’ll be doing this with the Phils. But it’s still hilarious.

Why do you keep saying terrible? Im not positive but Burrell didnt make more than 1 or 2 errors last year and was in the tops in assists all year from outfielders, so why are they terrible? I think Burrell was smart in the field because he knew what he could and couldn’t do, if he couldn’t get to the spot, he would get the ball in quickly, he wouldn’t trying diving like others. But 8/10 he got to the spot, and made the catch. Its also helpful to have Victorino in CF who will play more to LF knowing that the defender isn’t strong.

Though to Kev’s credit, Burrell had a pretty good year as a fielder. He had good outfield assists and played smart. But that doesn’t hide his overall career fielding skills, which suck.

Manny – Any chance you have the video of Burrell last year attempting to dive for a ball and eating dirt…then falling over after ying to get up and losing his glove? That was a classic!