Phillies Nation

i posted this in the pete rose thread…not sure if anyone read it…it makes a tad more sense in a ryan howard thread

guys…ryan howard wont be tradeduntil they have used up all of his arb years…ud be crazy to let this guy go during his prime years…its one thing if you cant sign him and arb runs out and you want to at least get something for him but to trade him when u still own the rights to him is bordering terrorism…it took 100 years and 10k losses to find a guy that can hit 50hrs and drive in 150 runs for this team every year and a guy like this wont ever appear again…in this teams system anyways…sure, im rubbed the wrong way a bit by his high salary demands but you cant argue with the production…best slugger in baseball and remember we let this guy treat the minors like it was little league for a year and a half longer than we should have. had he been up at the start of the 04 season instead of mid 05 we may have already inked this moose to an 8yr 60m deal ala chase and rollins…i ahte to see him go but it looks like it will eventually happen but get every possible at bat and game as you possibnly can from this guy

@Dipsy:

Costs the team 50 runs in the field at least? Dude, you’re smoking crack. He makes some bad plays, and then out of nowhere he makes a great play. He’s below average in the field, but not as terrible as a lot of people are painting him. I mean, you can’t have it all. He’s not going to be a gold glover AND a silver slugger. It’s one or the other.

Come on, guys. Let the guy get paid. Any of you who say you’d turn down $18 million and low ball yourself just to “help the team” or whatever lying your asses off. I don’t blame him, make all the money you can now because in a few years, it’s all gonna be gone. And really, it’s not like he’s asking for something that ridiculous. I would’ve had no problem with him asking for around $16 mil, but $18 mil isn’t far off.

Answer me this: How much was that parade worth to you guys? How much is it worth to see that World FUCKING Champions banner? How much is it worth to watch, and rewatch, that final at bat where Lidge whiffs Hinske? Because none of that would’ve happened if Big Brown hadn’t been in the 4 slot and sitting at first base. If they trade Howard, they’re not going to have a legit shot to repeat. They’re not even going to be the favorite to win the division. What on earth are you expecting them to actually get in return for Howard? How many teams could even afford him? We can, so keep him until he stops putting up these ungodly numbers or until his price tags actually gets legitimately outrageous.

Howard’s not bad against lefties for power, just like from the other side his issue is contact and placement. If he shortened up against lefties instead of going for the glory shot he’d have very decent stats against them.

The MVP vote isn’t avery true marker hence Pedroia’s low deal compared to his fellow MVP’s, it’s a mark of popularity and power numbers greatly influence the vote. Had the Phils not made the play-offs Howard wouldn’t have received serious contention, the writers were wet for Delgado but the Phils going deep enabled them to look at Howard who’s impact as the ‘MVP’ was far below his winning year. Good late surges seem to nulify very average seasons and Howard is cashing in on that.

Best case scenario here is Howard gets a long-term deal from the Phils, I don’t see health being the issue compared to other 1st basement names thrown out considering he’s shown a commitment to getting healthy but the motivation is an issue. His numbers are great but there is a negativity about him and when it’s clearly visiable it co-incides with the guys around him slumping.

The Phils need to give a little, Howard needs to give A LOT more otherwise we need to sell high considering his value and gather to filter in several legit prospects.

Geoff…..I’m just curious.Is it in your perfect world you’d want Rhyno to sit out of the Regular season until Aug 31 and play for at least a month and get a cool 100 grand for his services? Sorry reality says NO to that.Griffin,I like the Perez signing over Lowe for a myriad of reasons,Perez is a 27 year old lefty which we as Mets fans are familiar with and not worry about hidden injuries that players bring with them,he also did a yeomans job for the 2006 playoffs.Also Lowe at 36 albiet of his exprience he is not the messiah that everyone is saying he is.Now that the Mets (King Omar) have “Shored up their pitching” now its time to build a bench and if Murphy is not the player everyone thinks he can be,well than you better get a left fielder,I’d rather have Tatis on the bench anyway where he’ll be more valuable.

Fuck the Mets.
Fuck Oliver Perez, and his 18 walks a game average.
Fuck Jose Reyes, and his undeserving swagger.
Fuck Carlos Beltran, and his big, stupid mouth.
Fuck Francisco Rodriguez, and his show-off attitude.

If you want to talk Mets offseason moves, then go to Queens. Go talk it over with the crowds of fair-weather fans in Flushing, who will undoubtedly turn on the Mets after yet another September letdown.

I hate the Mets, Yankees, I Knicks, Rangers, Giants, Jets and every other NY team around. I even hate the Devils and Nets for being close to NY.

World champions, bitches!

Dude..im totally aware of how good he can be…but i dont give a rats ass. I dont care. all of you fakers will be worse than me as soon as he opens the season with a .165 average again…

Geoff, we are in a “win-now” sort of scheme. Don’t try and re-scheme the farm. We will be able to replace Howard via trade, free agency, draft or farm system eventually. I understand how you want our team to be different. I do too, so do most of us. I mean, darn brother, you would rather Albert Pujols too? The only real shot our team has at winning involves Ryan Howard for the next two to three years (at most). Ruben will be developing the entire time, and I don’t think he’s going to make another move to make our team older after 2009. Get off Ryan Howard’s back, and don’t be calling any of us “fakers.” Your opinion is equal to ours, you just offer yours up to receive a certain kind of criticism. To say, I can’t wait until he opens with a .165 batting average means you don’t really care about our team and you’re a little “faker,” to use your own term. So shut up, praise the Phillies and act like a real fan.

That statement is absurd. I obviously want him to do well, but he always starts slow. Ive been a fan of this team my whole life. Ill be calming you down and telling you to chill out when he has another bad start because hes distraced from arbitration again. Itd be great if they could at least work out a two year deal to avoid the distraction and hostility of arb and go into ST smoothly with no problems…but thats not going to happen. I have never seen a player who is so extreme in his demands in major league baseball this early in his career…ever.

I am acting like a real fan. That doesnt mean im going to worship everything they do just because they won the WS. When MAD people on here were ripping the ibanez signing i backed it. i backed bringing park in to probably add depth to the bullpen. i liked all of these extensions theyve signed. moyers deal…eh they caved in too much to him but they kind of felt they had to bring him back no matter what so as long as they have a backup plan (carrasco) then i cant fault them too much. ibanez is the perfect hitter for this lineup…we wanted a guy like him all year, but we finally get him and most of the posters on here were all sorts of angry about that signing…whats up with that?

this is one particular aspect of the team that i do not hold the majority opinion about thats all.

Look were never going to see eye to eye on this. I think he is a PIECE OF GARBAGE, you got that? Hes well on his way to being as big of a jerk off scumbag as manny ramirez is, who i dont want on this team either. you people think you can ONLY win with ryan howard and noone else…screw him. you can replace him ANY DAY AND STILL WIN with better starting and relief pitching and a .290 25/85-90 guy to replace howard. PITCHING WINS. ryan howard doesnt win all by himself. pitching is what won this team a world series. PERIOD.

chief…

Yes well, Im energized this morning. But Since Ben Sheets is the topic of the day Ill settle conversation on that…I Im trying to drive home the point that I understand all of the things you are all daying about Howard. I understand how good he is and his value to the team and how those numbers dont grow on trees, like shortstops do (they do, literally…my point was that serviceable ones are plentiful but that doesnt mean that theyre anything close to being jimmy rollins) but none of that deters me from reaching my conclusions….now…ben sheets.

I don’t understand how a team like the Texas Rangers can sign A-Rod for $252M years ago and an organization like the Phillies can’t throw 100+M at Howard.

well..what do you think there ?

You guys are crazy, LoL….Geoff especially, but I appreciate his piece of mind. Don your absolutely right about ”getting paid like a leauge leader”. That’s all Howards wants…Just like any job, if you put in more work than the rest of your employees, you expect some type of ”raise” or ”reward” in the near future.

Geoff, I myself have thrown trade debates about Howard too (mostly during the season when hes slumping). Than a week later, he always comes through to remind us how important he is to this team. You have to understand why his demand is so high….He’ll be 30 this season…He wants, and needs that long term deal while he’s still in his prime, cause the way baseball is now-a-days, 32-34 is considered ”old”, but the Phils keep going into arb with him. He’s definitely not a mennace like Manny. In a way he deserves that 18 mil, or atleast a 3 yr-55-60 mil deal