Preservation Key As Camp Nears
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Wed, February 04, 2009 08:44 AM | Comments: 58
Issues, Posts
Health is always at maximum importance during the thawing months of February and March. The Phillies don’t have a laundry list of injured players, but surely, they have some key issues.
Primary is Chase Utley, whose hip might take him out past Opening Day. Frankly, I can’t see him playing in early April, and there’s no reason to rush him. I’d rather have my best player joining in at 100 percent on May 1 instead of maybe 60 percent on April 3 starting some “feeling out” phase. One thing the Phillies have proved is April isn’t as important as August in the marathon of baseball.
Then there’s Pedro Feliz, whose back might keep him out longer than April 1. I’m a little more concerned with this injury, since Feliz fills a very specific niche that no other rostered player does well. (Whereas if Utley is out, you can make do with an average defensive second baseman and the big sluggers picking up his production.) No one plays the hot corner like Feliz, and his knack for clutch knocks might be lost early. Still, it’s not a heavy concern, as he should be back totally by May.
Those are the two main injuries. The more underlying issue that could plague the Phillies is overuse. Cole Hamels was bumped from about 190 innings in 2007 to 270 innings in 2008 (counting postseason). Injury-free Brett Myers saw a huge addition of innings in 2008. The bullpen was relatively healthy in 2008, and Chad Durbin and Ryan Madson saw a lot of time. Offensively, you can never be too careful with Jayson Werth and Shane Victorino.
Of course, these are problems that plague a lot of teams, and you just have to deal with the facts. But preventive measures should be sought early. It’s possible Hamels and Myers will be on shorter leashes in April and May, with Charlie Manuel relying heavily on new addition Chan Ho Park and Scott Eyre to bridge the games to Brad Lidge. And it’s possible we see more Geoff Jenkins and Eric Bruntlett earlier, so Werth and Victorino are preserved for the dog days.
The Utley and Feliz injuries show us that you can only go so far on broken parts. Feliz had to take some time off in 2008. Utley, of course, played the whole slate on a broken hip. He’s superhuman. But not everyone is. In 2009 – and especially starting when camp breaks — the Phillies should be open to any option.
Posts: 0 NJ
This is an opportunity not an emergency. I’m sightly worried about if Feliz will be completely health on his return but this is where the FO and the coaches earn their money, we could add another regular third basement and an Ohman or Beimel but I genuinely think we have what we need already here. Donald should be a shoo-in right now to spot either 2nd or 3rd and between Giles and Ozuna and a right handed infielder to be added like Nomar we have everything to ease out of the gate.
It could be a blessing in disguise that we have Romero, Feliz and Utley on shortened seasons, we can ride a couple of guys into the ground early without having to worry about the consequences later in the season. Nomar would be a VERY useful peice and I’m very excited about Donald under the circumstances breaking out without having to look over his should for a couple of months, sign an expendable lefty and work Eyre until Romero returns and Eyre settles back into his previous role.
You can have too much of a good thing and if the guys on this current roster do their job we ARE on the best teams in the NL.
Posted: 09:09 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Dan L
I have a very, very difficult time believing that the Phils’ have enough room in their budget to sign a reliever like Ohman who has been reported to looking for a deal as high as $4mill per, AND to sign a name like Nomar who I am almost positive will want something a bit higher than the veteran minimum.
They are in desperate need of a competent right-handed bat (especially if Tim’s right about the Phillies sitting their primary rightie regularly, Werth) because outside of Jayson Werth, they have NO threat from that side of the plate unless Vic or JRoll are switching.
However, because the team spending will be hovering around $130 million dollars this year, at least one of their needs–if not both–of bullpen help and a right-handed bat will come from within the organization.
Posted: 09:58 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 KidCarnivore
The one thing working in the Phillies favor is that there are still a bunch of quality relievers (Ohman, Beimel, etc) available pretty late in the offseason.
Posted: 10:09 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
When facing a left handed pitcher the right handed batters are Rollins, Victorino, Werth, Feliz, and Ruiz. So you have 5 out of the 8 main hitters as right handed bats, they will be fine. It doesn’t matter that Ibanez is left handed, everything will be fine, he hits lefties just as well as he hits righties, and will have a better average then Burrell had during his last couple seasons here, while putting up around the same numbers Burrell did.
Posted: 10:12 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I think that using Bruntlett and Jenkins early-and-often is a great plan because they need to feel involved, and try to get into a groove, get some confidence going.. its not ideal, but with some guys banged up, its a smart play, to get people even playing time and make sure your regulars are ready to go for “hitting season”
Hamels said something in an interview that I loved hearing.. basically one of the things he learned from Moyer was that you don’t always have to go try to strike everyone out.. and some days, your arm just doesn’t feel 100%, so don’t be afraid to rest it, or don’t always feel like you need to over-extend yourself… maybe not want you want to hear from your ACE, but definitely something mature to hear from your 25 year old with a history of arm troubles, and who just pitched more innings than he ever has before.
Posted: 10:18 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
One of the things i’d like to see a lot.. is Howard be more willing to take a walk when a LHP is brought in to throw him slop, low & away..
I’m confident that Werth and Ibanez can make things happen, and maybe neither of them hit as many HRs as Burrell, but they are more likely to get a hit, and move a runner, etc..
This will be a fun offense to watch, and not as frustrating as in previous years
Posted: 10:20 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Sometimes you can tell that about hamels as well as lidge. I recall seeing lidge come in a few times and STRICTLY pitch to contract and have like a 10 pitch save. Ive seen Hamels do that before too. Sometimes they want to get it over with quickly and theyll throw sinkers more often even if its not normally part of their pitch arsenal.
Howard cannot lay off that low and away left handed junk pitch to save himself. He has to lay off that, and he looks really silly faliling at it everytime. Even Les Walrond could get him with that pitch. Hopefully he has worked on that in the offseason because I cant take another season of that…
It looks like they went hard after wigginton and missed and now are going to make sure they land nomar. will ohman kind of sucks, even though hell strikeout ryan howard with his low and away junk slider that doesnt slide…still joe beimel is from the philadelphia area and youd have to think theyll bring him in but i havent heard anything at all about that. he had a good season last year too.
Posted: 10:33 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
How’d i know Geoff was going to bash Howard’s hitting abilities? Guess somethings never change. Also, Lidge throws a Fastball, and a Slider, no Sinker. Also, Hamels throws Fastball, Curve, Circle Change, no Sinker, so i dont know what your talking about with the sinkers. When they pitch to contact and get ground balls, its mainly because their staying out of the heart of the plate, jamming hitters, or just plainly keeping the ball low. It’s not like every pitcher can just throw sinkers when he wants to or everyone would be like Derek Lowe lol.
Posted: 10:39 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
I’ve been concerned with Feliz since day one. To me, it seemed like a calculated move by the guys in the FO to hide the Feliz injury… by kind of lumping him in with Utley, we didn’t talk much about it and haven’t heard much since. They shrugged it off, suggesting that he wouldn’t miss much time but it’s not a stretch to believe that Feliz’ injury was just as serious, if not more so, than Utley’s. He missed 26 games last season and had it flare-up after the season… to me, that sounds like a nagging back injury which can’t be good for a 3B. Back surgery can be hit or miss and rehab is a rollercoaster… I have known guys (my father being one) that have had similar procedures with great success and I have known guys that have had recurring pain post-op… talk about frustration. You just had your back sliced open and you’re still stuck in the same boat. We probably won’t know whether it was successful until he takes the field and tests it for a few weeks. I’m sure that he has the best doctors and the right genes to ensure a safe and speedy recovery but I would rather see him strengthen his lower back before rushing back on the field.
Posted: 10:40 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
With Feliz being shaky to start the season, that makes Nomar much more of a necessity. Because he can play basically every infield position besides Catcher. I hope Feliz is fine though, their would be no substitute player for his Defense, my man can pick it.
Posted: 10:44 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Tim Malcolm
“Sometimes you can tell that about hamels as well as lidge. I recall seeing lidge come in a few times and STRICTLY pitch to contract and have like a 10 pitch save.”
Isn’t it great, then, that Hamels and Lidge are now under secured contract, so they will pitch to win more likely?
Posted: 10:49 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
They will occasionally throw sinkers, pay attention next season…Lidge uses them more than hamels and more often than you think. its just that its thrown at like 95 mph. Blanton throws sinkers more often then those two do also…im well aware of their normal arsenals.
Yes loccking up hamels and lidge..lidge to keep him and hamels basically to make him happy was mandatory and well done by the front office…i like it when lidge gets it over with quickly. id be happy but surprised to see donald up to fill in for injuries. thats why the phillies want nomar so badly, who can play SS 2B 3B interchangeably. if donald is up to start the season it means hes really dhown them somehting though…i expect nothing at all from marcus giles or ozuna though…i doubt theyll make the opening day roster…
hamels rarely does it, hell just aim his regular running/moving fastball to jam the hitters inside. but i have seen him throw a sinker before. usually he just uses his three pitches.
lidge actually does it semi-regularly, youre just not paying attention because brad lidge is awesome. lidge has 4 pitches but predominantly uses just the two (slider, 4 seam fastball) but he also has (2 seam sinking fastball & straight changeup).
Posted: 11:01 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
brett myers has 6 pitches acutally. regular 4 seam fastball, slider, cutter, changeup, his 12-6 curveball, and a splitter…
blanton has 4 seam, slider, changeup, 12-6 curve, 2 seam sinking fastball..
moyer has like 7 pitches…4 seam, 2 seam/sinker, slider, cutter, curveball, regular chagneup, circle changeup.
what game are you watching?
Posted: 11:05 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Geoff, Kev seems to have a crystal ball because he apparently knows everything, even the future.
Posted: 11:07 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Yeah he certaintly acts liek he does, at least…
Posted: 11:15 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Rob E
There was talk during one of the phillies game, that Lidge cna throw a splitter, but lacks the confidence to use it. Anyway who carres his FB and Slider are dominating.
Pedro was the one player this year that did not go on a Hot streak all year. Hopefully he will come through this year.
Posted: 11:26 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
I’d be happy to see Jenkins and Bruntlett play a lot in April and May. Like Don said, these guys need to feel involved from the beginning and fill those gaps. But Feliz is a big concern right now. Will Dobbs play 3B full time until he gets better? That would be another lefty in the lineup. We definitely need a RH guy that can play 3B (maybe 2B, and OF too). Wigginton seemed like a great fit — he ended up getting $6 million for 2 years with Baltimore. Very cheap in my opinion. I guess Nomar would be the 2nd best alternative. FO needs to hammer the point that whoever comes WILL GET PLENTY OF PLAYING TIME.
Posted: 11:38 AM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 peasant
wiggy didnt sign here because he wanted more playing time, i’d bet against nomar because of his pride, i think the only move we’re going to se is one more reliever, or a really unknown right handed bat
Posted: 12:44 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Too bad Griffey’s not RH… saw something on Hot Stove (by the way, the MLB Network is the greatest network, bar none) talking about Griffey and where he might land. They’re saying that he would play for the minimum if he meant that he would get a chance to play for a contender. They also referenced the fact that he played through a bad knee injury last season that required offseason arthroscopic surgery. Two years ago he hit 30 HR…
Of course, my wheels were spinning… but I couldn’t think of any way that Griffey would fit in here. It would be nice to see arguably the greatest player of our generation play in Philadelphia… even at age 39, the guy is definitely worth the league minimum.
Posted: 01:18 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
* if it meant
Posted: 01:19 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Richie Allen
Its good to hear that everybody is happy if the reserve guys play a lot especially in the early months….But I think that is Charlies management style anyway…I was always amazed to see him play a lot of the bench guys, but it would pay off over the long season .
I also think we should see the real Jenkins or some of it this year..he has to have more talent than he showed last year.
Posted: 01:19 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
Georgie and Geoff, how do i act liek i know everything? Your the one telling me to watch more closely to Hamels and Lidge because they throw sinkers, i watch every single game and have never seen them throw a sinker, if hamels throws it once or twice out of 100 total pitches, i dont think its necessarily in his aresenal and that he feels comfortable using it, but i guess your sure he does. Lidge only throws the fastballs (2&4) and a slider, lol hes a power/strikeout pitcher, he doesn’t throw changes or sinkers?
Posted: 01:25 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 GVeoff
Hamels throws it less than that eve..the point is that its not like these guys ONLY know how to throw the pitches they throw and nothing more. Lidge used to throw it a lot more until his slider got better. Last year his slider was the best slider in all of baseball, and with a pitch like that you can get a lot done. But I did recall a few saves where the Phillies had been using him every night for 3 or 4 nights before and he needed a rest but had to still pitch. he rolled right out there threw sinkers on the inside part of the plate at like 95mph and was in and out with the save in like 5 minutes. he did that once at home and at least twice on the road.
Posted: 01:44 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
You get in trouble when you have guys liek kendrick who can ONLY throw a sinker well and have 2 or 3 other junk pitches…thats why kendrick didnt last a full season…
Posted: 01:46 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
I understand they can throw a bunch of pitches, but do they feel comfortable using it in a game? I doubt it. I’m sure if Hamels wanted to add a slider, sinker, split, he could because he has the type of mentality and work ethic.
To be honest, im going to have to disagree with you on Lidge and the sinkers, you said he was tired and needed a rest but pitched, so he threw ‘sinkers’. They could of looked like sinkers because he didn’t have his usual break on his slider from being tired, etc. He could of had some extra movement on his fastballs, that dipped. It easy to say that a hard diving pitch is a sinker, you may be right in that it was sinking, but i dont necessarily think he went in there ‘throwing sinkers.’ He just pitched to contact, kept the ball out of the heart of the plate and produced some GB and easy outs.
So just because i disagree with you, doesn’t mean i think i know everything, etc. dont be bitter
Posted: 01:52 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Kev, reread your first post on this thread, esp the last part. I’m still a little touchy about Pat the Bat being traded, although I think Ibanez will be ok, we don’t know if he’ll be THAT much better than Pat. You just came off a little arrogant about that, sorry, but that’s how I took it.
Posted: 01:58 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
The reason i think he will be better is because, he won’t go on those month long slumps, he hits more for an average, while still putting up similar power/rbi numbers. I loved Burrell, he always came up big against the mets, but to me, when Burrell was off, he looked bad at the plate, and i just believe Ibanez won’t go in those slumps like Pat did acouple times a year.
Posted: 02:03 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Hamels: yes, basically is talented and mentally tough enough to add almost any pitch he wants to his arsenal. Id like for him to add a slider eventually (to even further draw comparisons to steve carlton).
Lidge: Sliders throws from right handed hitters break down and away from right handed hitters and down and in on left handed hitters. Sinkers or two seamers with a lot of break break down and IN on right handed hitters and down and AWAY from left handed hitters.
Maybe those few times he had his sinking stuff working so just went out there and used it. I dunno if he was thinking about “throwing sinkers.” but he came out like a madman with a “lets get this over with quickly” mentality. just like at will inducing ground balls. it was one of his more remarkable saves actually…
Posted: 02:07 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Im pretty sure Ibanez will be a more consistent hitter than Burrell. Ibanez is the type of hitter they needed all last season…
Posted: 02:10 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
Exactly Geoff, thats why im looking forward to see what Ibanez does in this offense.
Posted: 02:17 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kev
Geoff, well put about Hamels, if he could adopt a Slider, it wouldn’t be fair
Posted: 02:33 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Re: Ibanez.
The guy is consistent in putting up good numbers every year… but he is still somewhat streaky and will occassionally fall in slumps. In 2006-2008, his BA in July is .244, but in August .358. So let’s not expect Ibanez to consistently get hits every game… the guy will have his slumps… not Burell-type, but still a good amount. I’m afraid we are setting the bar too high for him.
Posted: 03:13 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Can we stop saying “Ibanez hits lefties as well as Burrell”. It’s just not true.
Career stats vs. LHP:
Ibanez: .268 BA/.322 OBP/ .411 SLG/ .733 OPS
Burrell: .276 BA/ .410 OBP/ .540 SLG/ .950 OPS
Burrell is better vs. LHP in EVERY single category. Stop looking at Ibanez’s 197 AB last year against lefties and look at his 1270 career ABs against them.
Posted: 04:08 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
oh and Ibanez is .293 BA/ .355 OBP/ .494 SLG/ .849 OPS against RHP.
He is a MUCH better hitter against righties than he is against lefties.
Posted: 04:22 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Agreed, Manny… he’s not Ted Williams. No one is.
The point that you make is one of my arguments for Howard, too. Even a good hitter is going to be taking a seat back on the bench more often than he will end up on base…
Posted: 04:48 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Can we just simply put the Burrell/Ibanez arguement into one hits with decent power and the other one sluggs.
Posted: 04:54 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Bruce
Who will be Ibanez’s late inning caddy in LF? ;-)
Posted: 05:49 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Bruntlett again, I guess. Here’s hoping that Chollie realizes Ibanez is a terrible fielder.
Posted: 06:11 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Do you really think the Phils didn’t do their research on Ibanez’s fielding??? Why would the front office intentionally sign another 7 inning bat???
This arguement is about as stupid as it gets
Posted: 07:05 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
NJ, Ibanez is a terrible fielder by every single defensive metric. There is no argument about that.
Posted: 07:07 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Ok we’ve established he aint gonna win a gold glove but I’m pretty sure the guys in the front office did AT LEAST a little bit of background to see if he could work in this outfield.
The thing that makes me angry is any mistake he makes the boo birds will jump on, give the guy a break and have a little faith.
Posted: 07:13 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Maybe I should of taken a different stance more in line with some of you, we shoulda signed Manny… We shoulda signed Lowe… We shoulda signed CC and complimentary and minor league deals are just a waste of time because there isn’t enough ‘talent’ already on this team.
Wa wa…
Posted: 07:17 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Who said anything about booing Ibanez? Amaro overpaid, but it’s over with. That doesn’t change the fact that he’s a terrible fielder.
How does someone make the leap from “Ibanez is a terrible fielder” to “we should’ve signed Manny and Lowe”?
Posted: 07:25 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Because constantly there’s the opinion we’re getting the wrong guys even though other clubs were clamering for Ibanez. You know the guys gonna get booed, when Phils fans have a pre-disposition against someone they show it and any mistake he makes in the field is going to be booed worse than anyone else.
Amaro’s being ridiculed here for not getting the skill guys when he’s adding character guys to a batch that’s got enough skill and D.
I just don’t get why our first instinct isn’t to get behind the moves, question yes but not doubt that the organisation knows what it’s doing.
Posted: 07:30 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Fair enough. I questioned the Ibanez move but have never said “fire Amaro”. He’ll have the chance to prove himself. Outside of the Ibanez moved, he has done a very good job this offseason.
I am with you in regards to the booing. I just don’t get it. People booed Burrell for years and it’s just embarassing. Hopefully the fans won’t pick someone out that they will constantly boo (like Ruiz for much of last year).
Posted: 07:34 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
^If we’re smart enough to question Ibanez’s D don’t you think guys probably a hell of a lot smarter than us ask those questions and find answers…?
Posted: 07:34 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
NJ, who is to say that the Phillies’ front office thinks Ibanez is a good defender?
I hope Ibanez has a monster year and everyone comes on here and says “Griffin is an idiot for ever doubting this signing”. But one thing that I know will be true is that he will be lousy in the field. Then again, LF is the most unimportant defensive position on the diamond
Posted: 07:40 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
I doubt they think he’s a good defender but I’m sure they did all they could to idenify roughly how he’d fit into the outfield contingent. It’s not like hey made a yes/no answer, they will have researched the hell out of him before giving him $30m+.
It’s not fair for people to call you an idition (unless there doing it against Geoff in which sorry but it’s just funny) but it’s not all cut and dry, these guys do their research.
Posted: 07:48 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
True, they look at more stats than we can imagine. I think (and I hope) that we’re in good hands with Amaro. Time will tell.
Posted: 07:51 PM on February 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
NJ, did they research the hell out of Adam Eaton before giving him 24M? I don’t think so. It is OK to question whether the Ibanez signing will work or not. I personally think he is a good replacement for Pat, and I am happy he’s joining our team… but his defense is just as bad (maybe worse) and probably he won’t be as good against lefties as many expect him to be.
Posted: 08:10 PM on February 4, 2009