Opinion: Jamie Moyer Is Living Proof
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Tue, April 07, 2009 08:30 AM | Comments: 74
Opinion, Posts
It’s true, I didn’t give Jamie Moyer the respect he deserves.
The 46-year-old lefty is returning for his 23rd major league season, and here I am, projecting him to end his season short with sub-par (but not entirely poor) numbers.
But this is something the old wiseman has done plenty of times.
When Moyer suited up for season 22, most figured he’d be finished with his career by the end of the campaign. Instead, the slow-balling St. Joe’s grad posted fine numbers (16-7, 3.71 ERA), proving himself worthy of a 23rd season and a two-year pact to remain with his hometown nine. Even before signing the contract, I half hoped Moyer would hang up the cleats after parading down Broad Street. Wasn’t that the way he was supposed to go? The perfect full-circle of a pretty solid career?
If Jamie Moyer is about one thing, it’s defying odds. He did it at age 29, recouping from a minor league demotion (and 34 career wins) to become a solid starter in Baltimore. He did it again at age 34, reinventing himself from swing man to reliable starter. Then a third time, at age 38, he recovered from multiple injuries to take the ace job with the Mariners as a 20-game winner. And he did it once more at age 45, tossing one of the best seasons of his career en route to his first world championship ring. Yes, Moyer is nothing if not living proof.
So as the old man takes the mound to begin his 23rd season, I hope to eat crow with my beer. Just as so many have done so before.
Posts: 0 GM-Carson
Grand Pappy Moyer is going to go down in my Top 10 favorite Phillies of all-time.
Posted: 08:46 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Well I hope were all proven wrong again, that would be nice. However, after a certain point I think you start to show a lack of respect for the game. You had one of you best seasons ever, won the World Series, why not retire on top and get into coaching or something?
If he puts up his 08 numbers again nobody will complain, otherwise, its time to go pal.
Posted: 09:01 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Travis
prediction for Jamie Moyer this year: 13-8 4.06era
Posted: 09:19 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
I hope to eat crow, too… but he HAS to be on a short leash, despite everything he’s done for this team.
Surrender 3 or 4 runs in the first 2 innings, and Happ should be taking over for the rest of the game.
Posted: 09:22 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Phil
I know this is off topic and all, but I have Jair Jurrjens on my fantasy team and I don’t know if I can consciously start him tonight knowing he is pitching against the Phillies. I’ll also be at the game tonight and I want Jurrjens to get shelled, but if I start him that would hurt my fantasy team. lol
Posted: 09:28 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Caw,caw….
Posted: 09:30 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Fine piece, Tim. I half-heartedly agree with you about hoping that he would retire, however, now that he’s back, I’m extremely happy because I feel that he helps this team in so many ways. I don’t doubt that if he wasn’t around, those guys would feel like something was missing.
As usual, I disagree with Geoff’s comment. I don’t think that his return is showing up the game or exhibiting a lack of respect… the guy still thinks that he can help this team win a championship and what has happened between age 45 and 46 makes you think that he can’t? If he can’t be effective, I have no doubt that he will hang up the cleats… even if that happens mid-season. I’m from Souderton… this guy’s parents have lived in the same cape cod rancher for 50 years. His mom still worked at the local grocery store until a few years ago… modesty is a way of life for the Moyers. I don’t know what you think he’s trying to do but to say that he is disrespecting the game couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Posted: 09:37 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Jason B.
If Moyer goes 10-10 with a 4.5 era, he will have done a fine enough job. with a 4.5 era, he will have kept his team in the game and with this offense, scoring 5 runs is almost expected. Sorry Tim, I think you’ll be eating that crow this year. I think Moyer has better numbers than Myers come seasons end. You heard it here first.
Posted: 09:43 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
10-10 with a 4.5 era is mediocre…you cant demand that your offense score 5 runs a game (Even if they do like this one does) and just anticipate that, pitching still wins. pitching won them the world series, not offense. He probably wouldnt get pulled with a 4.5 era though, BUT he DEFINITELY is on a short leash this year. Brett Myers is also on a short leash. They had Happ up ready to come into the game in the 3rd inning. i definitely think happ will be loosening up if moyer gets hit early. they really want happ to get into the rotation but they know other people have to struggle first…
Jerome Bettis was humble, he retired on top. Brett Favre acted humble, but hes a dickhead and thought he was bigger than the game.
Posted: 09:54 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Nicely put, Chuck. Jamie is the ultimate perfectionist, and if he felt that he couldn’t be successful anymore, he would have retired. Geoff’s been on his case since he got that new contract, and I really don’t understand why. It would be different if Jamie had a bad or mediocre season last year, but c’mon, he was a BIG factor in bringing us a WFC-ship. I am less concerned about Jamie and Joe than Myers and Cole at this point, Myers because he’s, well, two different people/pitchers in one body, Cole because I’m not 100% sure of his arm right now.
Posted: 09:55 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Geoff, you are ridiculous…
16 wins, an ERA under 4.00…. as the second most reliable Starting Pitcher on the eventual World Series Champions..
Its a “lack of respect for the game” by coming back to help your team again, instead of “retiring on top” ..????
you are setting yourself up to be correct at some point in the next few seasons when Moyer finally has to hang them up, but you are sure sounding like your old, bitter-self with his “he should have retired on top” comments every single time his name appears in a new Post.
give it a rest, please
Posted: 09:57 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Both Moyer and Myers are on a short leash. Happ was up and ready in the 3rd inning the other night. The same will be true for Moyer. is he gives up 4 runs early – gone. happ finishes the start, moyer returns next cycle.
if moyer is 10-10 with a 4.5 era thats mediocre and while he wouldnt get pulled thats really not special at all. nobody would be eating crow about that. PITCHING won the World Series, not offense.
Posted: 10:00 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 rob
If memory serves me, Moyer started at St. Joe’s but graduated from Indiana…
Posted: 10:03 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Pitching always wins. The offense is very prolific yes, but you saw what happened when a focused, determined ace on top of his game rolls in there against this or any team. total lockdown. now normally the phils would get a few runs off him but they were very rusty at the plate.
An unproductive Jamie Moyer is of no use to any team – just like any other pitcher. Hes not being singled out here, but im not granting any special favors. Myers is on an equally short leashgiven his insecurity at the beginning of each start.
Posted: 10:04 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Geoff, I noticed in that last ST game when the wind was blowing 30mph and Jamie gave up some long balls, you were all over him, but when Lidge came in and gave up like 3 runs in one inning, you didn’t have a “seeya pal” for him, now why is that? If you’re going to crucify one person for something, at least be fair and throw them both under the bus.
Posted: 10:11 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
PITCHING won the World Series… JAMIE MOYER’S PITCHING got them into the playoffs, which allowed them to advance to the World Series.. yet somehow he should have retired since he won’t win the Cy Young this year
Posted: 10:21 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
no im not singling anyoen out at all. any perception of such is purely imaginary. if he doesnt help the team in his starts, im going to make note of it.
Posted: 10:22 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Because I have too much respect for Moyer to see him go out in a negative light. Idf rather him have gone out in a positive fashion.
Posted: 10:23 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 mike
Being in my fifties its crazy to think of a 46 year old pitcher who can’t break a egg, being as good as jamie has been.
Posted: 10:24 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
i love how everyone gets on his case and has him on a short leash. he was the second most productive pitcher on this team last year. his september got us to october where we all were able to celebrate.
Before we go and say a 10 – 10 4.5 era season is mediocre please realize that he is our #3 starter meaning he is better than #4- the ironpigs. I would much rather have Moyer going out than Big Joe or Park.
Along with his own pitching abilities he is also a great player coach and leader. Cole and many young pitchers would not be where they are now if it was not for his guidance. Just look up some of cole’s interviews and he talks about it all the time.
Baseball is about chemistry, leadership and pitching
Last I checked Moyer adds to each of those.
Posted: 10:25 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
jeez…you people are as bad as rush limbaugh dittoheads or the obamanoid equivalents on the other “side”
as soon as i say one bad thing about moyer, like some alarm went off and everyone comes out of the woodwork with prerehearsed utterances.
the bottom line is: when you lose respect for the game, the game loses respect for you even if you dont consciously think thets what youre doing. I dont want to see a great character guy like Moyer go through something as embarrassing and humiliating as the Matt Morris situation or what happened when Schmidt had to go. Its a trainwreck to watch, but now were going to be forced to watch it again.
unless he can defy all baseball logic again (which is always impressive and enjoyable to watch). i ENJOY it when he does well..which some of you might not really seem to grasp…
Posted: 10:36 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Like how you noted Howard, Rollins, etc.. not helping the team last year..
I think we all understand that at some point Moyer isn’t going to be able to carry this team anymore.. and at 46 years old, you probably shouldn’t expect him to be the 2nd best pitcher on the team.. but lets say he’s a #3 or #4.. he gives you a chance to win those games, which count just as much in the standings as when Hamels pitches..
You saying every other day that Moyer should have retired, etc.. makes you sound like a little girl, and if you want to do that.. call 610wip instead of bothering all of us with it..
Posted: 10:40 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
How is he not respecting the game? By continuing to play?
That is the most ridiculous argument ever.
Not respecting the game is taking PEDs and finding shortcuts to success.
Moyer is the complete opposite of all that nonsense. The man works his ass of to perform at a highly competitive level. In all you know and have read about Jamie Moyer does he seem like a guy who would come back for two more years if he didn’t think he would pitch effectively?
Furthermore would we have signed him for two years if we didn’t think he could? I mean he is more effective than Blanton, Park, Happ and the rest of them if he got a spot in the rotation.
Its not like a switch that all of a sudden he will go 6- 15 with a 5.3 ERA and turn into Adam Eaton.
I love how negative Philly fans still are, stop sitting here and thinking about the worst, we lost the home opener we are screwed, the mets already have a lead on us. we are going go 0 – 162.
22 of the 25 man roster of the team who delivered the Championship has returned with the only key person missing was replaced and sent away (Pat). I don’t think all of a sudden we will be the worst team ever.
Give Moyer 4 or 5 starts before you proclaim he is losing respect for the game
Posted: 10:45 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
This is basically the arguement I had with you last year… when you were trying to say that once a guy had his “Career Year” you should “trade him since he’ll never be that good again, and his value is high”
Because Moyer might not be “as good” as last year, he should retire??
Posted: 10:46 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Keith
let’s go Moyer!
Posted: 10:47 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
Yeah, I just had a career year at work so I should retire on top. That makes no sense.
While I understand retiring on top with your ring and become a living legend, but even if he does self destruct these next two years (which he wont) in 10 years no one will remember these last two years but they will remember when he helped with the World Series.
Posted: 10:53 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
The difference is we dont play a GAME for a living…so you cant equate that in any way really..
also..when pitchers go, thats EXACTLY what happens to them. they turn into adam eaton or matt morris. i dont listen to WIP…
you guys ALL sound like cult members.
Posted: 10:58 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Keith
anybody know of a site that will have a free live feed of tonight’s game?
justin.tv perhaps?
Posted: 11:00 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Funny you should bring up Limbaugh and “obamaheads”, I was just thinking the other day while reading one of your rants against Jamie, you sound like those bitter evangelicals AND Limbaugh who are HOPING and praying that Obama fails. You are the same way with Jamie, even though you won’t admit it. Pot calling the kettle black much?
Posted: 11:04 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Obviously none of those arguments youre all making are really central to the point. theyre all side arguments meant to derail the logic of this scenario. you start bringing up other players and other situations that have nothing to do with this…
Now…lets talk about a real timetable here…Moyer gets 5-7 starts. If hes mediocre or bad (ERA of 5) then hes pulled from the rotation. period. you cant throw away games like that once its clear theres a problem. thats what they did with eaton. If Moyer goes, then he goes.
Since he didnt retire, you obviously give him a few starts here to show taht hes still got it. But theres no way some of these hitters are going to continue to be fooled by his pitchign style for much longer. the national league knows him well by now, so i think the rest of it will work itself out pretty soon.
Posted: 11:05 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
So when pitchers go they turn into Matt Morris and Adam Eaton? None of these guys made it to 40 though. Its like saying Barry Zito should retire cause he sucks… well he still makes the roster every year.
Many pitchers have pitched late into their careers and had a slow decline. Tom Glavine, John Smoltz… the list can keep going. Those guys didnt have a switch just go off but rather just declining performances. Moyer’s career years came very late in his career and he had a better year last year than in 2007. There is no sign of his “switch” going and him blowing up
Posted: 11:06 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
first of all..the job of the President of the United States is to do what hes told and to keep his mouth SHUT.
so…if by obama or bush you mean…their globalist banking masters, then we’re on the same page.
and if you paid attention youd note that i said i want Moyer to do well, but im not going to blind myself with hope. practical statistics and history ALWAYS are the most accurate ways to predict the future one a track record is established. sure, tehre are anomalies (Moyers 2008 season) but people most generally adhere to their statistics (in sports) or track records (politics).
Posted: 11:10 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Yea, its only worked for 20 seasons… sooner or later they’ll figure out Moyer’s Pitching Style.. I can feel it
Posted: 11:11 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
You are ridiculous, the NL has learned his style by now?
You know Johan’s changeup is coming and youve seen it before but you still cant hit it. Good pitchers make people miss and hit their spots. Moyer hits his spots and has proved he can make people miss.
Every pitcher has the same pitching style year to year… Cole’s style wont change much so that must mean he will begin to suck next year cause the NL has seen him pitch so they wont get fooled.
You are making no sense. Your argument is extremely flawed.
Posted: 11:11 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
Yeah the marlins have seen it like 10 – 12 times but I have a feeling the 13 time they might figure it out, is there a switch for that too?
Posted: 11:12 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
next person that talks politics on here, is getting punched in the balls.. that’s what Star Wars chat rooms are for
Posted: 11:13 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
jamie moyer is not glavine, not smoltz, not maddux…those guys are all hall of fame pitchers, moyer is still debateable. jamie moyer shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence as greg maddux.
his career win totals are impressive, but hes not in that upper echelon of pitchers. barry zito is still on the roster ebcause the giants owe him almost 100M still. thats the only reason…
Posted: 11:13 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
you guys are comparing him to johan santana, maddux, glavine, thats patently absurd…
Posted: 11:15 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
it makes me glad the phillies have a great bullpen and great hitters…
Posted: 11:17 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Geoff, your positive outlook is glaringly bright, I need to put on some shades for the rest of the day!
Posted: 11:18 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Woodman
Geoff…… YOU’RE AN IDIOT!
Posted: 11:18 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 PtheBLovesTheBallGirls
Your right Moyer is not HOF material but he does compare to those players, Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz in that they are able to pitch effectively in their old age because of their style. Not trying to throw the ball by the batter but deceive them into missing.
Moyer is great at that and that is why he will continue to be effective.
Posted: 11:22 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 estrada
i think geoff is rather intelligent for this case.
Posted: 11:23 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Don, contrary to popular belief, I don’t have a pair of balls, unless you count the ones I’ve confiscated from my husband-lol!!!!
Posted: 11:24 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Geoff, I agree with some of what you are saying… I think that it’s great that we have an asset like JA Happ who can step in early in the game when Moyer’s slowballs aren’t breaking or Myers forgets how to throw a curveball HOWEVER you obviously struck a chord with the comment about his lack of respect for the game. I don’t know if there is anyone in baseball today that has a greater respect for the game. Maybe he won’t win 16 games… I’m one of the few that believes he will because every time that I’ve doubted him, he has proved me wrong. I would hate to see him end his career on a sour note but I truly believe that if he’s ineffective, he’ll call it quits. What’s worse, coming back for one more year and not being effective or quitting on yourself when you could have pitched one or two more good seasons? God gave him the talent and the ability to pitch well into his 40′s… why should he sell himself short? Unlikely… maybe. Impossible… far from it. His diving play in the playoffs showed me that he still has the desire. I think that he loves this team and they respect him more than we know. His motor forces them to never give up and regardless of whether he wins 10, 12, or 2 games, he is an asset to this team.
Posted: 11:24 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
“next person that talks politics on here, is getting punched in the balls.. that’s what Star Wars chat rooms are for”
I just wet myself…
Posted: 11:28 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Chuck is right Geoff, when you question Jamie’s respect for the game, you are going to get a raft of poop from most Phillies fans.
Posted: 11:39 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Robbi P
Hey Guys,
Did anyone happen to see the weather report for tonight? The ball is going to stay inside the park tonight its going to be small ball that wins this game. Weather channel is predicting 30% chance of rain last time I checked with the WIND CHILL supposed to be 32 degrees. Pitching and Defense is going to be clutch tonight. I am predicting a 2-1 win by the Phillies.
Another concern we should have is the health and effect of the cold on Utley and Feliz. Should be interesting if Charlie doesn’t like what he sees from one of them. I know they will be starting but both be playing the ninth inning.
Posted: 11:57 AM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Joe A.
ibanez needs to sit until he learns how to hit! matt stairs can atleast get the ball out of the infield! what are they thinking!
Posted: 12:03 PM on April 7, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
Sarcasm, Joe?
Posted: 12:07 PM on April 7, 2009