If Myers Is Done, What Should Phillies Do?
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Thu, May 28, 2009 08:22 PM | Comments: 194
Opinion, Posts
I stepped away from the Phillies for a while today, since there wasn’t anything really new to write about. Yes, the offense has some bad games, especially against sinkerball pitchers and guys who … well … can actually pitch. And yes, the pitching wasn’t good last night – Brett Myers was probably hurt; Jack Taschner probably isn’t long for the 25-man roster. We know all these things.
Then the news about Myers grew worse, and now it looks as if the longtime Phillie won’t finish 2009; moreover, he might not even don a pair of red pinstripes again.
So now the question becomes: What now? Suddenly the Phillies have lost their best pitcher (statistically), leaving one bonafide ace (Cole Hamels), a probable mid-rotation seesaw (Joe Blanton), a still-unproven mid-rotation lowballer (JA Happ) and an aged veteran who hasn’t shown to be worth his weight (Jamie Moyer). Suddenly they’re – at best – a three-man staff.
It’s no secret the Phillies have been the most ambitious of gentleman callers this season. They’ve inquired about the following pitchers: Jake Peavy, Brandon Webb, Roy Halladay, Doug Davis, Erik Bedard, Cliff Lee, Aaron Harang, Brad Penny, Chris Young and Jason Marquis. The names range from the elite to the broken, and everything in between. For once, though, the Phillies have the talent leverage to pull a deal. Names teams are salivating over include Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco, Jason Donald, Travis d’Arnaud, Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown, Freddy Galvis, Vance Worley, Kyle Drabek and Antonio Bastardo. Ah, the benefits of finally having a top-shelf farm system.
But considering the circumstances of both the major league rotation and the potential dearth of pitching prospects, the Phils might need two starters via a trade. It might mean Jason Marquis now, Jake Peavy later. Or the Phillies could call up Carlos Carrasco or Vance Worley. Or they could play it safe with Kyle Kendrick or Andrew Carpenter (safe, meaning, they don’t mind making the offense score seven runs per game).
Of course, one problem the Phillies now face is every team in baseball knows the Phils need an arm, so the Phils carry no value leverage. A multiple prospect deal (say Marson, Worley and Bastardo) for a Young is very possible.
So should the Phils point their guns at a big-time pitcher right away?
I think it’s best the Phillies work with what they currently have, at least for a little while. Yes, there is only one goal: Win a world championship. There is no selling to be done. There is no resting on their hands. They must show a commitment to winning. But jumping that gun and trading for a mid- or top-line starter right away wouldn’t be wise. Instead, give Kendrick and Carrasco their chances. Yes, Kendrick has struggled, but his average against with runners in scoring position remains strong (.170, almost 100 points less than his standard average against). That seems like the old Kendrick.
Meanwhile, despite Carrsaco’s faults he remains a high-strikeout pitcher capable of going undamaged in five-to-six inning starts. Start him on a major league track now – force him to make adjustments and see if you can ride him for a few starts. If so, you’ve saved some money and gained some leverage.
Of course, it’s still possible Myers might eschew surgery and risk his hip, pitching the remainder of 2009 without surgery. That’s not wise, but if he feels okay about it, it’s his call. That said, the Phillies can’t be reactionary. They’re already naked to the rest of the league; if they can prove they have more clothes than others think, they can gain some leverage and, ultimately, help themselves out in the long run. Not just in the short term.
Posts: 0 Marc H
I would like to get a look at Bastardo
Posted: 01:59 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 The Dispy
LOL. the only point that I will not vascillate on NJ is that the Phillies have to throw all in right now. If they have to deviate from their money philosophy re: service time, arbitration, and the like, well they just should. “Deviate” does not mean “throw out the window”. If it might make their collective lives a little harder in 2012 to win in 2009, well……thats very often a consequence of the “win now” philosophy. Its seems like you, my new friend NJ, espouse the “whoa, lets not get crazy here and do something rash” approach. Nothing wrong with it. It promotes long term health, stability and a good team for a longer period of time (see: Philadelphia Eagles). Keeping your farm system pumping and promoting from within is ideal. I think we all wanna be very competitive every year and use the farm to do that since we can’t spend $200 million a year. But we’re not that team. And now we’re two pitchers down and we have a series a world series contender on our hands. I think we have to do something over and above sticking our fingers in the dikes (although I would stick my finger in a dyke). I hope we all agree that some meaningful action should be taken. Lets sacrifice a reasonable amount of future for a lot of “now”.
“He who hesitates is lost”.
The Dispy
Posted: 02:06 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Joe Mauer is awesome though…Carlos Ruiz really is a good catcher though but Mauer is in another category…
Posted: 02:07 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
after these next 6 games, we see UNREAL lineup for the rest of the month
4 at LA
3 at NYM
3 vs BOSTON
3 vs TORONTO
3 vs BALTIMORE
3 at Tampa Bay
3 at TORONTO
.. you can’t be throwing Kyle Kendrick’s out there, they won’t get out of the 3rd inning
Posted: 02:10 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Bruce, I’ve noticed Myers looking like he’s in discomfort after games since early in the season. I attributed it to his “mental” state, but if you saw his postgame interview when he was asked about his hip, he looked scared sh!tless, eyes all bulgy, said in a shaky voice “I am scared, I HATE needles, man.” Haha, how do you feel about scalpels, drills and saws, big boy? When they wheeled me into the OR for a knee replacement, there was a table along the wall with big ‘things” covered with white sheets. I yelled at someone “Hey, what’s under those sheets?” Last thing i heard was someone chuckling and saying “You don’t wanna know”. OH,FUUUUUUU…….. zzzzzzzzzzz.
Posted: 02:13 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
He who hesitates, master baits … you know how it really goes
Posted: 02:14 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 beta sigma shag
I think it crazy talk to trade any of our position players now, peroid we either need to see of any of prospects can pitch in the bigs now why not. It a couple of bad starts ruins them mentally at 22-23 years old they are not built for this game. Or trade some prospects for a starter. I am sorry but Marson is going to be servicable but not great IMO so he can go, also a young arm or two and see what we can get. We should not be greedy right now and destroy our farm system for one year, lets look long term and be a little patient now for once thanks for listening
Posted: 02:14 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Lets go Mets.
You guys are lucky that half of the METS lineup is hurt right now…but there is no way you guys are going to continue to win with your pitching.
I think your best option would be to take a chance on Ben Sheets. He is a free agent and if he returns to old form he is a #1. I could see him signing with Texas though who he agreed to terms with before he had his surgery. Both the Mets and Phils both need some pitching help. Mets need another bat also. Things will get interesting.
Posted: 02:16 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I just think that our current lineup is what helps make us such a strong team..
if you trade one of the everyday players (OUTFIELDERS) for a guy that only plays 6-7 innings of every 5th game.. it hurts more than it helps
I’m fine with trading some prospects..
The question is who of Michael Taylor and Dominic Brown is the real deal??
Taylor is hitting well, with some power and speed in AA.. but Brown is the higher rated prospect, but he’s farther away from Big League ready.
Posted: 02:19 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Justin
Anyone ever see the movie “Awake” with the guy from the newer Star Wars? That’s some messed up stuff, the guy was given an anesthetic and was still awake and felt EVERYTHING, when they sliced him open to take out his heart, for a replacement. I think that might be worse then seeing the big things under a sheet and not know what happens after that.
Posted: 02:22 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
The Phils should trade Travis Lee, Vicente Padilla, Omar Daal and Nelson Figueroa for a future HOFer.
Posted: 02:24 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I agree…Im not all about moving position players either unless a fantasy video game trade magically happens, this is TOO good of a lineup.
Thats a tough one…ONE of those two guys (Taylor, Brown) will be an everyday OF for us…Taylor has the power and would replace Raul at the end of the three year deal he has. Brown would replace Victorino in CF eventually and eventually be our leadoff hitter. thats a tough one…do you go with the power or the speed?
Posted: 02:26 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Georgie
Justin, you never know what may happen when you go to the hospital, it could be just like Hostel/Hostel II…..
Sorry for the off-topic, but I found quite a bit of irony in Brett’s reaction, that’s usually the way it is though.
Posted: 02:31 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
on MLBTR:
“SI’s Jon Heyman writes about Erik Bedard, who may just be the best pitcher available this summer. His contract’s not a problem, and I should mention that unlike Jake Peavy, Bedard does not have no-trade protection.
Heyman believes that Bedard would probably require a better package than the one the White Sox were going to send to San Diego for Peavy.
He likes the Phillies, White Sox, and Brewers as possible suitors. “
Posted: 03:06 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Justin
I told you, the Mariners are going to require a king’s ransom for him. Not worth it at all.
Posted: 03:14 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Justin
I’d like to see what our in house options offer before trading away prospects, if they’re good it will only enhance their value.
Posted: 03:17 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
I don’t think that they’ll get their King’s Ransom for him though… they need to trade him cause they’d rather have any decent prospects instead of two draft picks..
they need guys that can help them within a year or two.. not four to five years
Posted: 03:23 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Brooks
Most widely talked about subject for a long time.
Phils need to make a move now, much more benefits the team if they get even 1 bonifide starter that is not too old, not too set in his ways that being part of a real team would be a good fit. No prima donnas – no head cases. We need a team player but a good shot in the arm.
Marson would probably be the most enticing offer.
Posted: 03:30 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I agree…from us Id only expect seattle to get:
A Prospects: (PICK ONE) Michael Taylor or Dominic Brown or Carlos Carrasco or Vance Worley or Antionio Bastardo/Donald/Marson
B Prospects: (Choose ONE) Joe Savery or Andrew Carpenter or Kyle Kendrick or Mike Stutes
C Prospects: choose TWO
Posted: 03:30 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Sean Chase
Maybe the Phillies are the only team that cannot hit-sinker, sinker, sinker.
Posted: 03:31 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
How do the Phils pitchingprospects comapre to the two top rated guys the White Sox offerred? Two other players were involved.
Aaron Poreda and Clayton Richard.
Posted: 03:31 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed
How about keeping Brown and Taylor? The both are simply ripping up the minors. And Taylor is 23/24, that means he is coming in for werth, not ibanez. These 2 are the all around hitting prospects since Chase. Both are proving this year that last year was not a fluke. If the season were to end today, Brown is a top 20 (at least) prospect and Taylor is close behind. I know we need a pitcher, but trading those two or Drabek is not smart planning for the future. I know we have to give in order to get, but those three are future all stars. Anyone else can go.
Posted: 03:38 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 I'm Chutly
The Mets will trade you Oliver Perez for 1Glove, 5 Baseballs, and a gross of jock straps. Good deal for the Phillies. Phillies need a pitcher and the Mets need jockstraps
Posted: 03:43 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Lets go Mets.
I would say thats an even trade
Posted: 03:54 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Justin
How about we trade a pocket knife to the Muts for Oliver Perez, since they need to cut themselves free from choking every september
Posted: 03:54 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Lets go Mets.
hey justin you might want to think about keeping that knife if chan ho parking lot is coming back into the rotation
Posted: 03:56 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
What i don’t understand is a couple years ago when they were stuck, they brought up Kendrick and threw him into the fire.
Now why can’t they do that with one of their highly tauted prospects, whom most likely has more potential and stuff than KK will ever have?
Why go the wait and see route with pitchers who are presumably better then KK was ever?
Anyone want to shed some light..
Posted: 04:02 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 mikemike
Poreda is consider a 4-5 type or most likely a relief pitcher. Clayton is 25 I believe and projects as a seventh inning guy, Anyone who mention Dominic Brown for a pitcher I hope you are wrong. Dominic Brown is a 6’5, 5 tool player and they are hard to find, He was a great football player who was committed to florida state I belive it was state, the phillies overpaid his slot selection to get him. His potential is unlimited, Taylor is a monster but not a five tool stud like brown, two players who we should never give up are Drabek and Brown, Keith law who was a scout and now work on espn, rated brown one of the top5 in all of minors, and he is still rising, this is a fleet outfielder who is starting to show power, The phillies don’t move prospects fast but if this was another orginization brown would be at double a or triple a, The red light on Taylor is he misses games due to diabetes.
Posted: 04:02 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
Hey go easy on Taylor, i have Diabetes :]
Posted: 04:03 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 From Section 113
Bedard is the most interesting pitcher to go after. He’s quite good this yr, is in his walk yr, and is on a bad team. This make shim very available.
However, we would have to give up more than the 2 good draft picks they would net from another team if they held on to him all yr.
However let’s say we give up 3 prospects for him, we would certainly net 2 prospects back when a team signs him and gives us 2 extra draft picks. So that is something to think about.
But would he be a type A Free Agent or a Type B? Plus we have been linked to him in the past. It all seems like a good fit.
Posted: 04:09 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
He would be a type A if he keeps up his performance this season
Posted: 04:13 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Ed,
its almost ONE or THE OTHER here.. either we coast along this season, without some solid to replace #2 in the rotation, we don’t make the playoffs.. and you waste a great year by Ibanez, Howard, Utley, etc.
You’ll have kept your prospects, who may or may not be great.. (Jeff Franceour was once Sports Illustrated’s cover after being called-up, he was labeled as THE NATURAL) .. so you really never know
OR..
We trade some of these young “MAYBES” for a pitcher who can help us right now.. while we have arguably some of the greatest position players to ever wear a Phillies uniform. (Rollins, Utley, Howard)..
I say go for it now while its got a better chance of working out.
BUT.. earlier this morning, I was leaning towards keeping every prospect too..
its a tough call
Posted: 04:15 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I totally agree. This team – with better starting pitching – is THE favorite to repeat as World Champions. Better than the Dodgers. But they arent getting the same pitching in total this season. THATS why I agree.
This lineup is one of the best lineups (over the past few years as a cope group) in baseball for the past 6-7 years and could become legendary. DONT WASTE IT. We have good young arms who ARE prospects, but not sure things. Obviously, Drabek or Bastardo you really dont want to trade, same with the outfielders. but you have a lot of good PROSPECTS – good young arms who other teams will like. you CAN trade them for a proven starter who can help us return to glory.
You have to get a frontline guy – period.
Posted: 04:21 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
But until that happens you do bring up someone like worley or carrasco or bastardo and see what they can do…if they pitch well, then when you DO get that myers – caliber replacement then MOYER gets the boot
Posted: 04:22 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
The Little Guy.
When Kendrick was brought up, he had a total of 81 innings pitched over 12 starts in AA.. at that point he had a 3.21 ERA (nice), 82 hits (bad), but the difference maker was that he was throwing STRIKES… only 18 walks vs. 50 Strikeouts.
He was called up because he was a “ground-ball” pitcher, who could throw strikes.. turns out he had some Gold Glove defense behind him, and it worked out well his first year in Philadelphia.
The problem is that he started relying too much on his sinker.. Major League Hitters adjusted to him and started pounding him… he was afraid to throw strikes, and last year his stats balooned:
155 Innings: 195 hits 57 walks!, 68 Stikeouts, 5.49 ERA
..
as Kendrick was never a guy with great “stuff” it seems like his best stuff wasn’t a match against MLB hitting.. now he’s trying to learn new pitches, and throw strikes again, but as his ceiling was never that high to begin with, many think we’ve already seen the best Kyle Kendrick can offer (2007)
Posted: 04:24 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 mikemike
Yesterday todd Z . stated what I was trying to say the phillies have a window to win, the contracts Ruben gave to Howard and Hamels are the window years. So they might go all for it, or If as I said before. if we knew we could keep Hamels and howard then we aren’t as pressure to go all out right now. The thing about howard is if I am right he will be almost 33 when he is up for his big deal, and that scares me to give him a monster deal. Another thing before this injury all I was reading was the reason the phillies were looking for a cook was There was no way they would go to arb with myers, he was as good as gone. but that is a reporter saying this so it might not be true, but to me it sounds like he was as good as gone.
Posted: 04:31 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Travis
Hey, I don’t live in Philly so I don’t know if its raining or not. Some websites say its thunderstorms and rain, while some say its parlty cloudy. Does anyone know if tonight’s game will be played between Nats (Shairon Martis) and Phils (J.A Happ)? tnks
Posted: 05:35 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
First of all, can Myers pitch through his hip problem the rest of the season… and THEN get surgery? It would seem likely that nobody would sign him for next season if he simply stops pitching for the rest of this season. If he pitches now, at least he’ll remain relevant for the offseason. It’s a risky move, and ultimately he and doctors can decide whether this is even an option, but it looks like it’s the best thing that could happen now for Myers and the Phillies.
If we can’t get him back pitching, I’d be happy to get a legit No.2 starter (like Bedard) on board. I agree with Don… we can’t afford to have crappy pitching while having an amazing lineup. This is our championship window and it can’t go to waste. As long as we don’t give them our superstars (which we don’t even know who they are), we’ll be more than fine.
Forget about going deep in the playoffs with Hamels and “four others.”
Posted: 05:54 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 Justin
Just being reported, Myers met with 2nd specialist today who recommended surgery. Myers out for year, but hopeful to return this season.
Posted: 07:14 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 BrianD
What kind of offers can Myers expect in the offseason? What do you think the chances are of him resigning with the Phils (and we’re not talking about anything more than 2-3 yrs, 5-8 mil per)?
Posted: 08:23 PM on May 29, 2009
Posts: 0 baseballfan
look like only one starter
Posted: 12:22 AM on May 30, 2009
Posts: 0 clktwr14
How about this one more you mental giants your so called hero Ibanez for Greinke, why did Charlie put Mayberry in RF over the weekend in New York to check out how much speed the outfield of Werth/Victorino/Mayberry had, and they go out and sign Ben Sheets look at that rotation
Hamels
Greinke/Sheets
Blanton
Haap
Moyer
or Haap goes back to the minors for more tuning.
Posted: 01:45 AM on May 30, 2009
Posts: 0 Todd Hamm
I think we need to take this to a new article…Myers having surgery and will/should/probably miss the rest of the season. Although if he can come back…he will! The “kid” is a bulldog.
I think they should look at the “prices” of Webb (yes, I know he’s injured. He hasn’t had a set-back for over a month and a half now and should be back in a couple of weeks), Harang, and Cook.
We know a trade is coming…hopefully it won’t be a deal like the one for Blanton — too much given up.
I wouldn’t put much, if any, stock in what — “insert expert here” — says about any minor league rankings. The fact is the Phils have a lot of players that other teams would love to have. The Phils Pharm (to me) is stronger than most…but don’t put much stock into that either!
On a side note — the Mets just traded for Lance Broadway (White Sox), I guess they like pitchers with high ERA’s!?
Posted: 02:30 AM on May 30, 2009
Posts: 0 baseballfan
that move was to play santos and get rid of castro. not about what they got in return
Posted: 03:12 AM on May 30, 2009