Love Hurts

Posted by Amanda Orr, Thu, May 28, 2009 01:00 AM | Comments: 80

The Philadelphia fans have acted as a tenth player throughout the years. With a record under .500 at home, Charlie Manuel says the Phillies may be trying to do too much, but also has a message for the passionate Phillies fans.

“I notice sometimes when they’re talking to us around the dugout, they’re always talking about last year and thanking us for winning and all that,” Charlie Manuel said. “Of course, they’re enjoying the game and they love us, but… well, maybe they should get on us a little bit.”

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Amanda Orr has written 713 articles on Phillies Nation.

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  • Posts: 0 The Little Guy

    Did i say he was a number 1? No i said when he throws gems like the other night, “thats what number 1 type do”

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    mikemike… can you please call HAMEL by his actual last name, HAMELS..

    that drives me nuts everyime i read it.. but besides that, you’re the greatest..

  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Don M~ You’re comparing Werth with Victorino? These are two athletes with different roles and responsibilities in the lineup. I’m sure you understand how that works. And why Victorino hits in the top of the order and Werth usually in the 5th or 6th hole. So using stats for comparison between the two is misleading. More HRs and RBIs than Victorino? Com’n.. were not talking about a match of “power” hitters are we?

    Granted patience has it’s rewards and certainly Werth is known for that. However, pitchers know that too. And when Werth is not hitting and allows himself to fall into a pitcher’s count, he usually gets himself out. I have a lifetime’s worth of experience in watching baseball to know that aggressiveness can be a cure for a slump. A hitter needs to counter a pitcher’s adjustment with his own. IMO, Werth needs to attack the first good pitch because he won’t see any more once he is behind in the count.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    What about more RUNS AND SBs ?? that doesn’t matter… I provided stats in which each should be higher in two of the 4..

    My main point is that I wouldn’t include a starting OF as part of a group of players that already included our top prospects.

    Carrasco, Donald, and Werth for Eric Bedard?… no thanks.

    Kendrick, and Werth for Eric Bedard.. now we’re getting somewhere

  • Posts: 0 Richie Allen

    Does anyone have any real info on whether we made a play for Peavy?
    Or again, is it just like someone above said… “arm-chair -Gm” stuff?

  • Posts: 0 The Big Dipper

    Bruce, you can compare Werth and Victorino and you bringing up their spots in the lineup is a mute point since Charlie likes to switch them often and have Werth bat in the 2 hole and Victornio 5th or 6th.

  • Posts: 0 The Little Guy

    Richie….here you go…


    thats where the speculation started..

  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    If Bedard is signed for more than two years. Then Donald, Carrasco, Werth isn’t too much to give, Donald isn’t a future allstar. mostly thought of as ulitily player. Not by me, but scouts. Carrasco is a head case from what I am reading, there is no guaranteed he will ever be as good as bardard. Werth is thirty and still not able to handle right hand pitching, so how good does he become, and do we have to give him arb next season if he stays? but on the other side is better than mayberry. and Taylor and brown aren’t ready yet. so to me it’s a catch 22.

  • Posts: 0 Tools of Ignorance

    Going back to the subject of this thread….You did hear that Charlie Manuel was just joking with that “maybe they should get on us” statement correct….

  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Big Dipper, I respectively have to disagree with making a comparison between Werth and Victorino. Again, my point is you have two players with different assignment/role because of the nature of their athleticism. One is more perfectly suited as a “tablesetter” plus meeting the demands of such a role with the capability to advance a runner or hit and run behind the runner. Having outstanding speed and aggressiveness helps too. Victorino more than fits that description. Werth’s role is more in line with being a run producer. Thus his “power” is better used in the middle and lower batting order. Because of Werth’s speed and patience with the bat, Manuel will sometime use Werth in the no 2 hole to balance the lefty/righty matches and have Victorino provide the additional threat of speed and agression in the 6th hole. This lineup order is often used to jumpstart a struggling offense.

    Sorry if I’m redundant on my points.

  • Posts: 0 Cos

    You guys talkin about trading Werth is insane. The guy is in a slump right now he’ll probably be hot in 2 weeks n all this talk will stop. He’s too valuable to this team to trade has a great arm n covers a ton steals bags when needed and has power n drives in runs. Not sayin we need to trade anyone but if we do its Victorino. Somehow I’d put a package together for Matt Cain.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    But Werth isn’t JUST a “power” bat.. he’s also a dangerous runner, and a very good fielder.. he’s got just as much range as victorino and is probably just as fast.. its just that he takes long strides so it doesn’t look like he’s flying off the ground like Victorino.

    i’d trade Victorino before Werth because Werth can play center, and steal bags… but Victorino can’t hit 25 HRs

    I’d rather not trade either one of them, and just see what we can get with our prospects.. (if you’re looking for a “top” pitcher.. its going to cost “top Prospects” but if we’re looking to simply IMPROVE our rotation, we can do that much cheaper… that’s how they’ve gone before, and that is probably how they’ll go again)

  • Posts: 0 Justin

    Bedard isn’t worth any semblance of good prospects for the simple fact that the Mariners are going to want payment for losing tillman, and adam jones, and that kind of return the Mariners are asking for isn’t worth a rent a player who hasn’t proven he’s good on a good team, he’s a good pitcher on a bad team, like mikemike was comparing for a #1 for the pirates.

  • Posts: 0 Richie Allen

    Just a comment on “Arm-chair GM’s”…
    I really dont mind all the guessing and speculation on who we could get ,or who might go .or any of that stuff.Doesnt bother me at all.Its actually entertaining because people try to back up their reasoning with baseball logic.
    But the name calling and ego blustering crap has to go.Everybody is entitled to their opinion,even if its crazy.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    my main point is that i’d really be careful about trading any of our “regulars” for anything short of a pitcher that rivals Hamels as the best on our staff.

    Your “regular” players are there day-in and day-out… just as I thought it was nuts that Sabathia gets almost $1 M per start, and only plays in 35 games per year.. I don’t want to weaken our lineup for a guy that will play in 15 games for us.. and not guarantee any wins in the process

    If we can trade a Kendrick, and some lower level prospects to a team for an arm that will help, I think that’s the move we make

  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Tools of Ignorance~ I had perceived the same with those comments from Manuel. I think Manuel is expressing some annoyance in a lighter vein about the past distractions and his desire for his team to be better focused on the playing field.

    Of course, Manuel knows where “the buck stops” in his role as manager. The bottom line is his responsiblity in overseeing the team and do what is ever necessary to keep the team focused and maintain their winning ways.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Werth will be fine… Vic is not going anywhere…

    I agree with Georgie: coming on here has become a bit of a downer… there should be a sign-in area where trolls and grumps aren’t allowed.

    I disagree with the comment about the “new fans.” Attendance is up and I think that it’s great. I was down there last night and it was fun (except for the guy in my aisle that tried to get tough because he thought that I was disrespecting his wife and sleeping baby… I got up to use the john and walked by her and told her that she was ok, meaning that she didn’t have to get up and she sat back down, the husband saw her sitting back down as I’m walking by and I guess he thought that I didn’t give her enough time to stand up so he made a smart comment and I told him that he needed to calm down and talk with his wife). There was a group of people sitting in front of us from Houston… not even Phillies fans… they just wanted to see the stadium (they were very respectful). I think all of the new blood is cool and I think that it creates energy. If the stadium was filled with “true baseball fans” everyone would be sitting there watching the scoreboards, analyzing numbers and filling out scorebooks. There aren’t as many chants/waves but I think that a lot of that has to do with the fact that the Phillies SUCK at home this year (which is the single most alarming trend right now).

  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Armchair GM’ing is alright in small doses and with the understanding that you still have a responsibility to root for your team… that means that you can’t go overboard. You have to realize that your armchair predictions aren’t likely to happen…

  • Posts: 0 4daysrest.com


    These comments were taken out of context, per Todd Zolecki. Manuel immediately laughed when he finished saying the fans should get on them a little bit. He doesn’t really want people to boo them – he just wants the fans to stop coddling the players and thanking them for 2008 before the games. It makes them lose their focus.

  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I’m not sure about other people on here, I just know that im a big fan of “actual” trade rumors.. and not the lets trade our whole team for every All-Star scenario..

    JAYSON STARK’s latest:
    On Jake Peavy to ANY East Coast team:
    “East Coast teams like the Phillies, Mets, Yankees and Red Sox would probably have to jump through so many hoops and offer so many dollars and perks, we’d bet heavily against Peavy winding up in the Eastern time zone any time soon.”

    On the Phillies search for a Pitcher, and who other teams want in return:
    “Is there a prominent starting pitcher in the July shoppers’ catalogue that the Phillies haven’t looked into? Clubs all over baseball report that the Phillies are, as one exec put it, “looking everywhere for starters.” And for once, he said, “they’ve got pieces to give” to get one.

    The list of pitchers they’ve called on, from what we’ve heard, includes every conceivable usual suspect: Oswalt, Peavy, Brandon Webb, Roy Halladay, Doug Davis, Erik Bedard, Cliff Lee, Aaron Harang, Brad Penny, Chris Young and Jason Marquis.

    But which Phillies prospects are clubs targeting? The group we’re hearing starts with three Triple-A names the Phillies have balked at dealing in the past — catcher Lou Marson, infielder Jason Donald and pitcher Carlos Carrasco — plus catcher Travis D’Arnaud, shortstop Freddy Galvis, pitcher Kyle Drabek and outfielder Dominic Brown (all in A-ball).

    Then there’s a left-hander who is climbing everybody’s charts, Antonio Bastardo, who has a 50-9 strikeout-walk ratio between Double-A and Triple-A. The Phillies dangled Bastardo in July for Rockies reliever Brian Fuentes. But a year later, he is actually drawing some Johan Santana comparisons, and might have passed Carrasco as their No. 1 pitching prospect.”

  • Posts: 0 Manny

    From Zolecki’s blog, RE Charlie saying “Maybe they should get on us a little”:

    Now here’s an important piece of context to that quote: He wasn’t being serious. In fact, he laughed after he said it.

    Manuel wasn’t really suggesting the fans need to start booing the Phillies more. He wasn’t suggesting the fans are playing a role in his team’s struggles at home. He cracked a joke. But because it got taken out of context, Manuel felt he had to address it after last night’s game.

    He said he was trying to be funny. He said the team’s problems at home have nothing to do with the fans.


  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Manuel guaranteed and predicted that the fans should get on them..

    much as Rollins guaranteed he would hit .400 in May

  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    “(Bastardo) is actually drawing Johan Santana comparisons”

    Is he smoking something or did I miss this?

  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    Chuck where did he get that? His last start he was at 91 until the fifth and he he started to lose his velocity, He is small , and most on phuture think he is a relief pitcher, because ala madson, he can’t keep his stuff for more than 4 0r 5 innings

  • Posts: 0 Bob

    Am I the only one who was impressed with our crowd in the 8th and 9th inning last night? That was intense and it was great. If people think that the intensity is down, just look at who they are playing at home (outside the Mets). Phans are still enjoying our title, but I will defend them for their performance in the 8th and 9th last night, not too mention how behind Brad Lidge they were the other night.

    42,000 fans a game. The Phils will most likely break their attendance mark set in the ’08 season. That place was rocking and was a huge reason they went 7-0 in the playoffs on the way to the World Series. Charlie says what he feels, he also said that the fans have been great.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    How tall is he???? Some web sites had him listed at 6’1″ 180 lbs and some (most) have him at 5’11″ 165 lbs… I’ve seen some video on the kid and he looks pretty big. There’s no way that he’s 165 lbs (unless he’s sporting body armor)… I’m leaning towards 180 lbs.

  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    45,000 fans were in attendance last night… a Wednesday to watch Brett Myers pitch against Burke Badenhop (not your headline matchup). I’ve been very impressed.

  • Posts: 0 Brian of CO

    Phil, Victorino for Peavy? Are you a Mutts fan by chance?

  • Posts: 0 Brian of CO

    Anyone who is talking about “fake fans” has clearly never traveled outside the (extended)tri-state area (extended meaning DC for the Nats.) Try coming out the Colorado to a Rockies game. You will see the most PATHETIC group of fake, apathetic, clueless, boring group of fans and team in the country. As for the post early about the wave not happening in the past as it does this year? Again, try to go to other ballparks, outside the area. Rockies park, the wave will usually last for about a single section, much less the entire park once. Busch stadium about 3/4 to once around. Ive been going to Phillies games and tail gates for about 20 years, and Philadelphia has the best tail gates, and most fun games to go to.

  • Posts: 0 Robert Alanalga

    Thank you for participating in the 2009 Baseball season Phillies!!
    See you next year!!
    L.A. Dodgers!!!

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