Glavine? Padilla? No, And No
Posted by Tim Malcolm, Thu, June 04, 2009 02:19 PM | Comments: 75
Opinion, Posts
The Phillies are allegedly going to sign Tom Glavine or take Vicente Padilla from the Rangers. If the reports are true, the Phillies are close to out of their minds.
Okay, maybe we shouldn’t be that drastic. But signing either Glavine or Padilla would send wrong messages and frankly, be the wrong ways to forward your team.
At this point the Phils are three games ahead of the competition in the National League East, and we’ve just begun June play. Though Brett Myers is on the shelf and will likely miss the remainder of the season, multiple options stand to fill the rotation. And already, one option (Antonio Bastardo) dazzled enough to earn another start or two. Behind him is the ace Cole Hamels, the reliable Joe Blanton, the semi-reliable Jamie Moyer and an emerging JA Happ. And of course, that’s not all: Behind them are Kyle Kendrick, Andrew Carpenter, Carlos Carrasco, Vance Worley, Kyle Drabek and a few retreads and stopgaps. Plus Ruben Amaro Jr. has already made it clear the team’s focus to trade for an elite-level pitcher before the non-waiver trade deadline.
Simply put, this is no time to retreat to unstable or unproven veterans.
Glavine – whom is garnering the lion’s share of rumor – went 2-4 with a 5.54 ERA last season for Atlanta. His FIP (factoring the numbers out over an equal plane) was 6.02. More ghastly totals: 1.56 HR/9, 5.26 BB/9. In Philadelphia, that won’t cut it at all. In rehab starts he was hitting 83-85 on his fastball, which doesn’t seem good, but Glavine’s fastball doesn’t need to be hard. It moves, and it’s a location pitch, setting up his down breaking stuff.
Sound familiar?
Look, it’s not that Jamie Moyer isn’t good, or any of that. But we’ve seen the type of damage inflicted on Moyer this season, especially by seasoned hitters on well-coached teams. Who do the Phillies play this month? The Dodgers, the Mets, the Red Sox, the Blue Jays – powerful offenses with seasoned hitters. If the Phillies want to loan Glavine until they grab an elite arm, they’re jepoardizing being bounced around like a pinball.
Then there’s Padilla, who forever had elite “stuff” but couldn’t match it because of his emotional issues. This season he’s carrying a 5.57 ERA, though his truer indicators (FIP, HR/9, WHIP, etc.) say he’s better than you think. Still, is locking up Padilla for a “test run” better than testing out a younger, more stable pitcher such as Bastardo?
I’m not all for playing veteran musical chairs with a rotation spot. I’m reminded of the 2006 Mets, who tested everyone from Alay Soler to Geremi Gonzalez to Jose Lima in their rotation before finally resorting to giving a youngster named John Maine a shot. Sometimes youth just works.
Moreover, youth sends a positive message to these players: “We’re confident in who we grew, and we think they can help lead us to another championship.” Nothing screams desperation more than inking an aged left-hander to a short-term deal, a “test drive.”
So, instead of going with the unstable or unproven veterans, stick with the guns. They may surprise.
Posts: 0 Griffin
This is from a Keith Law chat today on ESPN:
“Bill: (South Jersey): Hey Keith, if you were Ruben Amaro trying to trade for a starter, rank these guys from who you would be willing to give up to guys you would want to hang on to. Happ, Bastardo, Victorino, Marson, Donald, Brown, Taylor, Carrasco, and Drabek.
SportsNation Keith Law: (1:26 PM ET ) Happ, Marson, and Carrasco would all be guys I’d shop, and probably Donald just because I have no spot for him. I’m not a believer in Marson’s bat. Happ is a fringe 5th starter-type. I think those guys may have more value to other clubs, particularly, say, the Padres, who value performance highly.”
In regards to Padilla and Glavine-meh. Let the kids play.
Posted: 02:28 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Alex
If this is the route they want to go they might as well just sign Eaton, we’re already paying him.
Posted: 02:29 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
The only thing this would do.. is give us more options, more depth.. and force the younger guys to stand out even more..
No longer will it be good enough to out-pitch Kyle Kendrick..
Now it will be.. outpitch Future Hall of Famer, Tom Glavine.. and 250-game winer, Jamie Moyer..
It’s not that either of these moves would limit them in any way from obtaining top pitchers before the trade deadline..
In the same way that people were pissed about adding arms like JC Romero, Scott Eyre, etc.. these are moves that could give us depth.. I’d rather have either of them on the hill at any point this season than Kyle Kendrick.
If Carrasco isn’t ready, and Bastardo has to face teams better than the Padres lineup.. it will be nice to have other options for a while, especially FREE options that don’t cost us prospects.. and options that we could rid of immediately if they don’t help us
Posted: 02:31 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Jeffrey
I don’t see much of a risk to signing Glavine to a cheap contract more than a month before the trade deadline. If he stinks, they’ve lost a little dough. If he pitches okay, the team is stronger.
As for Padilla: thanks but no thanks, Vicente. He hasn’t gotten any better since he left Philly. And who needs a whack job in the clubhouse?
Posted: 02:31 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Marc H
If the Phillies had picked up some re-tread instead of calling up Bystrom, they would not have won in 1980. Same is true with Walk. I agree with Tim’s analogy to John Maine. Sometimnes, the best solutions are right at your doorstep.
Posted: 02:37 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Im pretty sure that every single team in baseball wants JA HAPP right now… including all the contending teams..
5th starter type my A$$… Cy Young.. NO. but he’s good enough to pitch in meanigful games, as a mid-rotation starter
Keith Law sucks at life
Posted: 02:37 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Mazinman
I don’t see much of a problem in signing Glavine if we can get a cheap one year contract on him and as long as it is understood that this move would be a band-aid while we work on a more permanent solution to the problem. Who knows, he might even enjoy a little upswing in his career due to being angry at what the Braves did to him. He might even have a positive impact on the kids like Moyer has had. Be very wierd to see him in a Phillies uniform though after all those years with the Braves and Mets.
Padilla, no way.
I think we need to be a little careful with the kids. Happ and Bastardo looked real good in San Diego but they were playing in a pitcher’s ballpark against a sub-par team. I am not quiet ready to hand them the season yet. Against a better offensive club in the Nats, Happ got himself into a high pitch count and had to leave early.
I also agree with Don about adding depth to the Phillies. What happens next time one of our starters needs to miss a start? Carrasco does not seem ready, it does not seem the Phils have much confidence in Kendrick left, and the thought of Park becoming a starter again freezes my blood.
As long as its Glavine, why not? Low risk move at this point.
Posted: 02:42 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Don M, I posted that one for you. I know you’re a huge Keith Law fan. Pirates beating the Mets 9-5 bottom 6.
Posted: 02:42 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
I hope Ruben Amaro Jr. checks this website and read this post.
Couldn’t agree more, Tim.
Posted: 02:56 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
J.J. Putz just gave up 2 more runs in mop up duty. 11-5 Pirates after 7.
Posted: 03:06 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Steve-o
Keith Law is very critical. He doesn’t believe in a lot of prospects. He’s a notorious under-rater. As far as Glavine and Padilla, I’m not a fan. Padilla is a nutjob, and we already have Tom Glavine, and his name is Jamie Moyer.
Posted: 03:19 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Greg B
I agree with Alex’s Eaton comment as well.
Saavy veteran presence has a spot in the ‘pen, but let’s give these young guys a shot. If you want to take out an insurance policy on one of these vets go ahead, but don’t mess with success at this point.
Posted: 03:20 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
Happ, number 5 starter? Has “Keith Law” watched him pitch at all this year or last year in the stretch run or in the PLAYOFFS!?
Yeah, he might be a number 5 on the Red Sox or Yankees, maybe even the Dodgers. But the Phillies, hes their 3.
Posted: 03:25 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
If it was a playoff setup… Happ would be the #4 right now (you know that Manuel would give Moyer the nod still)
but those #’s don’t matter UNTIL the playoffs.. the way they’ve skipped guys and had rainouts and the double header, etc.. we dont have a set rotation right now..
Happ is good, not great… but I think he’s better than people give him credit for.
SMART baseball people know about him, and that’s why you will hear teams asking for him or Carrasco in trade rumors
Posted: 03:32 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 ChaseUtleyMVP
I don’t want to sign these guys..
but I can’t believe your last sentence had “unproven veterans”
unproven? You are calling Tom Glavine unproven? He’s a hall of famer…
and wheres that Mets d-bag at…
pretty sure they just lost 3 straight to the Pirates
Posted: 03:34 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
IMO you can get ride of Marson, Donald, and Carrasco for a Peavy, Bedard, Oswalt, and it wouldn’t hurt the farm AT ALL.
Why all the love for Donald? Someone please explain to me why some people think it would be a vital mistake to trade him..
Posted: 03:35 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
rid*
Posted: 03:35 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Keith
apparently he’s good lol idk.
Posted: 03:42 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
All the scouts say he will be a utility player. He is blocked by Rollins and Utley for the foreseeable future and they have a 5 M option for Feliz at 3rd. They’re probably going to pick it up if he keeps playing like this.
Posted: 03:44 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
I’m with you Little Guy, I’m not a huge Jason Donald fan. I think the time to trade him was last year when his perceived value was highest.
Posted: 03:53 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kennedy
Anyone who doesn’t want to sign Glavine for a mil or less, answer me this: If ANY of our starters get hurt for a month, what happens. Do we:
A: Overpay Pedro (please god no, I’d rather have Glavine)
B: Start Chan Ho Park (Again, NOO)
C: Start Kendrick or Carpenter (Both would get destroyed in the majors)
D: Start Gustavo Chacin (Um this is the best of the four options I guess)
We need a 6th starter in case someone gets hurt. Glavine is not bad, he might even be good. Put him in AAA, we wouldn’t even need to release Rodrigo Lopez, Glavine can fill Bastardo’s spot. If he dominates in AAA, and somebody falls apart (and you know somebody will) call him up. He’s definitely a better emergency starter than Gustavo Chacin.
Posted: 04:04 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Kennedy: I highly doubt that they’ll bring Glavine just to be insurance… he will most likely start and we’d be forced to send Bastardo to the minors immediately. I rather see Bastardo pitch at least 2 or 3 more games before we decide to keep him in the rotation or send him back to AAA.
If he’s willing to sign with us and just wait in AAA as insurance, then great. But I thought he was doing something similar with the Braves this season… plus, both him and Padilla want to pitch at the MLB level, not AAA.
Posted: 04:12 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed R. (formerly just Ed)
Last time I checked depth is never a bad thing. How is signing Glavine possibly a bad thing. You know the Phils are not signing this guy as the answer to their problems. This is a depth/hold me over until the deadline type thing. Now if Glavine pitches lights out then great, glad to have him. If he sucks, we cut him and that’s that. We are already paying the Marlins payroll to guys who aren’t on the team, whats 1 million more to Glavine? Sorry, but I will say this again, depth is never, ever a bad thing. He is an insurance policy. That’s it.
Posted: 04:16 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed R. (formerly just Ed)
The Braves cut Glavine so they could bring up Tommy Hanson and save some cash so they could turn around and pay Nate McClouth. Glavine wasn’t overly impressing in his rehab but again, he isn’t the answer, he is just protection.
Posted: 04:18 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Maverick
Glavin wouldnt be a bad thing….
and for the record…..
This time last year phils were 27-24 and the rotation looked like this…
Hamels
Myers (pitching his way to the minors)
Moyer
Kendrick
gulp** Eaton
And…..we had little if any Minor league trade bait to pull of a bid deal.
Posted: 04:34 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Kennedy
I think they could sign him to a minor league deal with the understanding that if he pitched well at AAA he would be called up. Nobody liked Bastardo earlier than me, but I do not want to see Gustavo Chacin make a MLB start for the Phillies. And we are a 50 year old Jamie Moyer getting hurt from that happening.
Posted: 04:37 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
If we’re interested in calling which future Phillies are our favorites.. give me Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown, and Kyle Drabek .. that way i can say that nobody liked them earlier than me
come on now
Posted: 04:44 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Maverick
I like where Phils are right now but…it doesnt take a genius to figure out the current rotation needs some help.
Hamels
Blanton
Moyer
Happ
Bastard-o
If i were Amaro……I would pick up Glavin and make a trade in the coming weeks for a middle rotation guy. No need to break the farm for Halladay or Oswalt although i would like to have them.
I would feel good with something like
Hamels
Blanton
**Marquis (for example)
Moyer
Happ
Posted: 04:46 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Rob
What did Happ do to lose his spot in the rotation last Year????
What did Bastardo or Happ do to lose their spot in the rotation this year????
Why bother bringing in another old man or someone who has more arrests for DUI then Quality Starts this year???
Wait it out and get a quality arm.
Posted: 04:47 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 christopher
i have no problem with glavine replacing taschner in the pen and waiting in the wings if bastardo falters or if there’s another injury. i do not want to hand him a spot in the rotation unless that’s the case though, and if he’s not willing to pitch from the pen then i want nothing to do with him.
Posted: 04:48 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
I don’t think Glavine would sign with a team and agree to go to the minors. If that were the case, I’d sign him and call him up if Bastardo falters, but Glavine is not going to agree to that.
Posted: 04:50 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Here is a quick tidbit from ESPN’s Rob Neyer’s blog on Bastardo:
“I did watch Bastardo’s outing, and he was a surprise, both to me and to the Padres TV broadcasters, as we all were led to believe that Bastardo is sort of a finesse pitcher. From Baseball America’s 2009 Prospect Handbook (which lists the small left-hander as the Phillies’ No. 11 prospect):
‘Bastardo has made such rapid progress due to the deception and command he had of his average repertoire. His fastball sits at 87-91 mph and tops out at 93. It gets on top of hitters quickly and has some cut action. He pitches inside, but he’s not overly physical or a power pitcher.’
It was fascinating watching Bastardo Tuesday night. Not a power pitcher? He threw mostly fastballs throughout his outing. What’s more, in the first couple of innings, he was throwing 94 and 95. In the next couple of innings, he was throwing 92 and 93. And in the fifth and sixth, he was mostly down to 90 and 91, just like the scouting reports said. I will say this, though: I never did see a fastball clocked lower than 90. And if he can stay in the 90s while pitching into the sixth inning, he’s got a shot. Of course, it’s also possible that the gun was running a few miles an hour too fast.
What’s most likely is that Bastardo’s fastball was fueled by adrenaline (and perhaps a bit of physical maturity), and that he’ll not spend much time this summer throwing in the mid-90s. Whether he’s really the reliable No. 5 starter who might keep the Phillies in first place, no one can rightly say. This was just Bastardo’s third start above Class AA. But he’ll always have this grand debut.”
Posted: 04:51 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Maverick
If Bastardo Falters…..?? He has good stuff but he Will Falter…its a question of when..
He has 1 pitch right now and the rest need to be developed….phils cant afford to have bastardo develop his breaking balls in the Majors…he will get hammered…..
Posted: 04:53 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Craig
I would try Glavine. He wants to stick it up the braves, you know what. He is a solid pitcher. Cant hurt. Oswalt, you just dont know and give all that talent away.
Posted: 04:54 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Phillie South
I moved to Atlanta in ’93 and am a staunch Brave Hater. However, over the years I’ve come to really like a number of individuals like John Smoltz, Brian Jordan and Ryan Klesko. I’ ve also come to really dislike some individuals like Chipper( I Can’t Go) Jones, Kevin Millwood and Andruw Jones.
The biggest Putz of them all however is Tom Glavine. Glavine is the definition of the “ME” Athlete. In person he is smug as they come.
PLEASE DON’T SIGN GLAVINE!!!! I will have to root against the Phillies for the first time in my life.
Posted: 04:57 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Griffin hit it right on the head..
Bastardo was JACKED and throwing really hard..
If the gun was kicked up a few MPH that doesn’t speak well for Peavy who topped out at 91 in the first inning (i think)
Posted: 04:57 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 christopher
maverick what are you talking about one pitch? we haven’t even seen his change up yet, his slider was effective, and his fastball was dominating.
“if he falters” meaning if he struggles in a number of starts. i don’t mean “as of his first bad game.”
Posted: 05:08 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Travis
Mets lost to Pirates 11-6. Entering tonights game we’re 3.5 ahead of Mets, 5.5 of Braves and 7.5 ahead of Marlins. Weekend Series for Mets and Phillies
Mets at Nationals
Phillies at Dodgers
Posted: 05:09 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 tflynn
just adding my 2 ccents…pick up glavine, as long as its 1 yr deal for relativity cheap….maybe even make glavine a long reliever, if need be and work his way into a starting spot…i see nothing wrong with keeping happ in the rotation, bastardo looked amazing, but yeah he may win 7 games if they kept him in the rotation but hell he has a future infront of him…. NO NO NO NO to padilla we tried him once, do we need to give that head case another chance? NO
but def in a few weeks sell trade the farm for a holladay or oswalt id love to see them in philly especially halladay
romero is gonna be a great add on to help madson in the set up role…
if nothing else, stick with the farm until a huge blockbuster trade is made for a big name pitcher
did i mention a HELL NO for padilla?
Posted: 05:09 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Travis
Don’t sign Tom Glavine or Vicente Padilla. Both will have trouble here in Philly. I’m going out and I’ll be back at 10:10PM ET tonight. Cole Hamels who’s had great success against Dodgers in his career vs Clayton Kershaw who is like 0-2 with a 7+ era in career against Phillies. Also any news on Shane Victorino. I’m sure he won’t start tonight. Dobbs or Stairs will in RF and werth in CF.
Posted: 05:11 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
You guys really think Glavine or Padilla are going to sign a contract knowing they would have to pitch in AAA or in the Pen?
Be serious, if they sign either of them, they are in the starting 5 of the Rotation you can count on that.
A HOF 300 game pitcher, pitching in the minors? Why would he do that?
Padilla, everyone has spoken about his ego, you think he’s going to just go to the minors and wait for a call?
Hmm..don’t think so..
Posted: 05:15 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 The Little Guy
I just don’t get the Phillies. You have a 20 something pitcher who showed has what it takes to pitch in the majors, but they want to bring in two over the hill cast offs?
Posted: 05:19 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 tflynn
i agree with the little guy
i highly doubt glavine will come here knowing he has to start off in AAA that is just stupid
like sayin well lets sign ken griffey jr, knowing he could maybe gain a startin spot in the OF, but not right now..so lets send him to AAA
wont ever happen to a future hall of famer, hitter or pitcher…if it was me, being a future hall of famer, yeah id rather not even play and stay in the FA pool and wait for a sub par team to need me as a starter than play for a playoff team in their farm system especially after being in the majors for as long as they have been
Posted: 05:21 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Miles
Yeah someone mentioned it earlier but Glavine is not going to come to the Phillies if it means going to AAA or throwing in the pen as someone suggested. 300 game winners don’t throw out of the pen unless its game 7 of the World Series and you see Randy Johnson coming out of there to shut down the Yanks.
Yeah I guess Glavine is an option but honestly I just don’t see him as good enough of an alternative. Honestly, Padilla should be a blatant no-no. I really hope that Ruben has never even considered him. There was a time towards the end of his Phillies career where we took every 5th game that he started and figuratively flushed it down the toilet before the game even started. He was that brutal.
I am also a staunch believer that the Phillies were never going to succeed with any leftover pieces of the Schilling or Rolen trades on the team. Maybe its just superstition, but I always viewed Polanco, Padilla, Travis Lee, and those other guys as reminders of how bad of a team we had and I just don’t want to see them on our club.
Posted: 05:28 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 christopher
well first of all, glavine’s probably rehab isn’t done. so yes, he most likely needs to spend more time in AAA.
second, on the “he won’t start in the pen” stuff, he was just released from a (not all that great) braves team. i wouldn’t assume that his other options are going to be much rosier than pitching from the pen and being the go-to guy if another starter is needed for the defending world champs. who knows, maybe a contender will offer him a starting rotation spot guaranteed. i wouldn’t count on it though.
Posted: 05:30 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Phillie South
Glavine is shot. His last 2 years with the Mets were weak and now he is 42 coming off his first surgery.
Go with what we got.
I read the Rangers are interested in Glavine. They have more mirrors in Dallas, Tom, than they do in Philadelphia.
Posted: 05:35 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Phillie South
The locals here are all excited about McLouth. He is a .260 career hitter coming off his career year. He hit .276
This trade will help the Pirates more than the Braves. Hernandez is a top 100 prospect and Morton just needs a chance.
Posted: 05:40 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 tflynn
bastardo, happ, drabek, carrasco
i mean can we not patch them all in? keep bastardo until her really messes up, then try next in line
im sorry i just love happ in the rotation, i htink he has proved himself out of the pen and as a starter so far
dont fix it if it aint broken
Posted: 05:50 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 MP
No, Tim, you got it right the first time. If either of these signings happen, I will seriously wonder if the Phils have lost their minds.
I think we’re going to be okay with what we’ve got until we need to go for the big trade at the deadline.
Posted: 06:00 PM on June 4, 2009
Posts: 0 Greg V.
I am mildly pro-Padilla. It breaks up the rather alarming amount of southpaws we have. I would get the hell rid of Taschner and use Bastardo for long relief Happ style (Bastardo can pitch anywhere). Padilla was never my favorite but at the same time, the team and the line up has improved a ton since his days in red pinstripes. So, yeah bring back Padilla! What the hell? Glavine on the other hand? Maybe five years ago, but not now!
Posted: 06:02 PM on June 4, 2009