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The Dip: Brett Myers: The Return of the Native

Posted by The Dipsy, Fri, July 31, 2009 09:30 AM | Comments: 118
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts, The Dip

This is The Dip, a weekly column penned by our own commenter, The Dipsy. Agree or disagree with what he says? Tell us by visiting our contact page.

Amongst all the hubbub surrounding the Cliff Lee acquisition, the Phils find themselves sitting on a potential treasure trove of arms to employ for the stretch run to the pennant (it used to be called “pennant”, I’m not sure what its called now). While J.P. Ricciardi cleans out his desk Saturday morning, victim of what l call a “Ruben Sandwich,” Charlie Manuel will be sitting in a locker room somewhere trying to think of a way to fit six, soon to be seven, and not long after that, eight (!) pitchers into his starting rotation. That eighth pitcher will almost assuredly be Brett Myers, showing up late to the party, but there nevertheless.

If things go as The Dipsy predicts (in honor of Ricky Henderson’s induction into the Hall of Fame, I am referring to myself in the third person), Happ will go to the bullpen (a shame), Lopez will be traded for a minimal return and Martinez and Moyer will be your No. 4 and 5 starters, not necessarily in that order. Easy enough, I guess, until Myers is done his rehab stints and shows up at Citizens Bank Park pronouncing himself cured and ready to pitch. And that talented right arm has to go someplace.

BrettIn 2008, Myers was one of the best starters in baseball after he came back from his electroshock therapy in Reading. He went long into games, moved his fastball in the zone, and his curveball bit and didn’t hang. In short, he was great, and the Phils would not have reached the World Series without him. The season prior, Myers was unexpectedly thrust into the role of closer and thrived with 21 saves while averaging more than 10.5 strikeouts per nine innings. The guy has shown he can close.

What happens when Myers returns will hinge on what happens with Martinez. If Martinez can’t hack it, Myers slides into his spot and Martinez goes to the pen. If Martinez is pitching reasonably well, he will serve as the righty starter to balance out the rotation, and Myers will pitch in relief. Then it becomes interesting. I would love to see the “Bridge to Lidge” include Myers flashing his old form and effectively holding things down anywhere from the sixth to eighth innings, with the switch over to J.C. Romero as needed, then right into Ryan Madson. Then Lidge in the 9th.

While all of this this sounds great In theory, it can’t work unless Lidge has it together. As of now he does not. And he has a history a “crisises in confidence.” If September comes with Myers pitching well and Lidge struggling, and we all hope that won’t happen, I would expect Manuel to dispense with the “I’ll stick with my horse” or “I’ll dance with girl that brung me” crap and make the switch to Myers. Playoff baseball is no place to wait for a guy to find his stuff. Myers runs to pressure. And he needs a contract next year. I think he’ll be primed. We want Brett Myers to pitch well. We all want Brad Lidge to pitch well. But most of all, we want the best guy on the mound to close games.

Avatar of The Dipsy

About The Dipsy

The Dipsy has written 29 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    I would love to see the Phils get Halladay. The funny part is we still have what it takes to get him. I just can not believe the Jays will sit and rot with Halladay. They should have taken the players we sent for Lee for Halladay. I guess the Jays are holding their breath that someone swoops in at the last minute with a deal. Well, I’ll try to put a deal together here. Take Happ. Take Taylor. And we’ll throw in Galvis. Happ, Taylor, and Galvis. What would they take at 3:59 if Ricciari has actually been told, more or less, to move Halladay. If he would make this deal, he would probably just delay his firing to the off season as opposed to tomorrow.

    The Dipsy

    The Dispy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Give em 5 million, too

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Look at the Dipsy just snowing Rube’s money… ok, I see you.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Make it rain, Rube. Make it rain.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    Happ with another good start 2 days ago. Moving him out of the rotation is a nice way to irritate fans and make a franchise look stupid.
    if he isnt going to be in the rotation anymore why wouldnt you let him be in the original Halladay trade? I dont see him missing a start.

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    Yeah, the numbers don’t quite add up. I know. But the Phillies front office have been such cheap bastards over the years. And with all the hard earned money we’ve been pumping into the Phillies treasure chest; I feel like they kinda owe us this for all the decades of pain and suffering. I worked at the Vet in college and after the strike that place was a ghost town. One time I dared myself to walk into the Phillies Clubhouse before batting practice just to see how close I could get. I opened the door up about 6 inches and then I ran like a school girl. Ah, the memories of losing Phils teams past…

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    So, I guess Martinez goes right to the pen? Do not pass “go”? Do not collect $200? Thats stupid. Moyer to the pen? I’d love to see it, “situational lefty”, blah blah. Not gonna happen. He’s never relieved. Happ has, has proved he can do it, and its only for half a season, if he even stays there. Martinez bombs and he comes right back. And I’m sure Happ was not holding up the Halladay trade. Cmon man.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 1435 Pat Gallen

    Avatar of Pat Gallen

    Consider me a skeptic with Myers coming back anytime soon. I know he’s throwing, but can he really get that torn labrum back to full strength that quickly? Must be using the clear or the cream. Jokes.

    But seriously, the bullpen could use him, but the rotation does not need Myers right now. And as for Pedro, the guy has to pitch 2 or 3 more times in triple-A before he should be allowed to even sniff the majors. My trust factor there is low as well.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Dipsy, shame on you for fanning the hopes of a few daydreamers who are in a state of denial and refuse to believe the Phillies are NO longer interested in Halliday. (chuckles)

     
  • Posts: 0 Ben

    the vet post strike was a sight to be seen. i remember going and there would be a couple thousand (as in 2,000) in the upper bowl, and about half of the bottom bowl was filled. there would be, literally, no one in the outfield upper bowl.

    the only time i wished we didn’t have a new stadium was in the playoffs. how cool would it be to have 65,000 people in there, just going nuts.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Pat, I think Pedro had kept himself together even before the Phils signed him. I figure he knew he was gonna pitch for someone. Its true that there is no urgency to get him up here quickly. Maybe he’ll totally suck at AAA, then he’ll never come up. I hope these aren’t just “rehab” starts. These should be, IMO, “got anything left, old man?” starts.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    Brett’s in a contract year. He’ll do everything he can to get back. But as Pat said dreaming of him to replace Lidge is fanatsy at best for now. You can’t keep moving Happ back and forth. Isn’t that what got Myers in trouble? But if the Phils pull a surprise and get a John Garland like righthander without losing Happ. Then I could see it happening. I think Scott Eyre and Romero will be fine Lidge is the scary one of course. Ra could still get Rlv Pitcher by 4pmthough.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    The upperdeck OF seats were the absoulte worst view ever..

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    We dont even know if pedro can get anyone out.
    Like I said if happ is moved out of the rotation and things dont work out perfectly the Phillies will look horrible. I know alot of people who will be pissed off. I would bet that Happ doesnt miss a turn in the rotation. i know my buddies would be pissed. I understand your theories Dipsy and see what your saying. But the average fan who isnt as informed will not and will be pissed off moving your seasons best starter to the pen.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Dipsy-aren’t the yankees last minute swoopers? Let’s hope at the very least Halladay stays with the Jays. If he goes to a team were likely to see in the off season, chances are were done. Halladay is two pitchers that hurt our line-up all rolled into: sinker (best in the league) and 3 off speed gems….we couldn’t even handle an off speed scrub like Petit…sure we hadn’t seen him before, but i don’t think we have seen Halladay except for Ibanez. Who the hell is Galvis? I mean, second coming of Christ prospect….I still wouldn’t care, this is a once in a lifetime chance.

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    My shift there was 5am-2pm sweeping up the wet peanut shells that remained after the water hose swept the large chunks of trask to the end of the isles. Picture being at the top of the Vet right b4 dawn with an old school broom that weighed 5-6lbs and a dust pan that was holding on for dear life with cracks in it. Then picture trying to sweep up those shells who were holding on for dear life to the wet concrete because of the suction. I loved it. Got to go in the Dug out and the pen. And I got to reinact Tug’s last strike while standing on the mound at about 4:45 in the morning. Coolest job I ever had.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Andrew, I hear ya but I don’t think the Phillies give a damn what the average fan thinks in this regard. Happ is like a utilty knife right now. He can start and relieve. Besides, I don’t think there would be a PR backlash if Ruben decided to put a 3 time Cy Young winner, Hall of Famer in for The Rook. Take one for the team J.A. And also, those initials have to go. Reverse them and be A.J. Or just be “Jay”.

    Ther Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Repeat!- John Garland is also a groundball pitcher. Two things that make me feel alot better than a rotation of 3 lefty fly ball pitcher (includes Happ not Moyer) in a hitters park. Check Lee’s stats and you will see that the Indians did well to jostle their rotation around to keep Lee out of hitters parks…Progressive field is ranked 6th among pitchers parks and look at how many innings he pitched there throughout his career relative a hitters parks…don’t look at his career stats at Ameriquest Field unless you want nightmares…We might not see it this year since batters still have to adjust to him…but next year might be a different story…alot of souveniers at home games.

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    j reed, John Garland would be a sneaky yet intelligent move by RA. Lefty line up to go along with lefty rotation looks kinda cartoonish.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Wow Dipsy, what a douchey comment….

    By the way, I’ll be one of the MANY fans that will be part of that PR backlash you’re referring to if J.A. Happ –our best starter– gets bumped to the pen… again! I could care less if he’s a rookie or a 50 year old veteran, because he’s simply our best starting pitcher this year.

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    I wouldn’t say facing a team with the Doc in a postseason series spells doom. Wouldn’t be very fun, but certainly not a death sentence. The Phillies hitters are they’re own worst enemy. When patient, can score against just about any top righty. Haren, Beckett, AJ Burnett just to name a few.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If they want to bump JA while Durbin, Romero, etc.. are on the DL .. and Happ would be there in-case .. yea, I’d rather have him going into a game over Kendrick or whoever

    BUT.. If Happ is the better pitcher.. there is no reason that you would move him out of the more important role, because he is ALSO better at the bullpen role than Moyer would be.

    Lets see if Pedro can get some hitters out before we flip out regarding Happ and the bullpen

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Just call him J…

    That’s a cool job, Repeat…

    If Myers comes back (that’s a big IF… IF Myers is able to be effective), it will be in the pen. Moyer is going to start… at least until we get to postseason play. Martinez has a lot to prove before he becomes a starter… I think that they’ll spot him in the pen until he is ready or until we need him (which ever happens last). Happ is going to continue to start as long as he keeps throwing 6-7 innings and 2-3 runs… regardless of what Martinez does but I have a feeling that they’ll look to Pedro as soon as Happ shows any signs of cracking.

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    Pedro and his mini-fro with that white head band. Too funny. Let’s hope his tank’s not on empty.

     
  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    Pedro looks like Richard Simmons gone crazy with the spray tan…

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    Thanks Chuck. Wanna hear something crazy? In 2006 I went to a job fair at Shea Stadium for a” career in sports expo.” There were reps from all over the Arena Football league, MLB, and MLB teams. I once turned down a job to work for the Philadelphia Soul. No really I did. The pay sucked and I got a better offer to work at a homeless shelter. Anyway, at the fair which as a sham because the reg fee was $40 and came with a ticket to the game that nite. Mets vs Cards and ticket price on stub was $40. I walked up to a Mets rep and handed him by resume. I knewI had no shot,but I was bored and curious. The rep looked at my resume and chuckled. “So you’re from Philly huh.” Yes sir I said. He paused. I said Mets are having a great yr. Thanks he said. I said Phils/Mets NLCS sure would be exciting. He said “We won’t have to worry about the Phillies for a long time.” I was speechless and walked away. I went to the game Mets won 10-2 or something like that. Karma Mr. Met Rep……… Karma…..

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Red Sox to acquire Victor Martinez… no mention of a third team.

    If they don’t move someone, I wonder where Martinez slots in… it’s hard to fathom but it seems like Varitek’s days may be numbered.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Manny – “douchey” – I like that. I want you to know that I want J.A. to stay in the rotation. He’s been great. But Pedro IS coming. If Ruben sits him down and tells him that our starting ptching has stabilized since his signing and we need him in the pen and he’s fine with it…GREAT! Put Pedro in the effin pen. But if he’s gonna throw a snit…uh…. And guess what? If he is going to throw a snit, maybe he shouldn’t be on the team anyway. I’m just trying to deal with the reality of having Pedro and Happ and Moyer available for two spots. Plus, three lefties in the pen, one who can throw to righties, too (Happ) would be awesome.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    That’s not a bad story, either… Karma at its best. That wasn’t too long ago… as a whole, the Mets fan base reeked of pomposity. Talk about a miscalculation… those guys thought that the Mets were head and shoulders above everyone else. They could almost taste the trophy in their Italian Hoagie smelling hands. The Mets might be better than their record indicates but they’re certainly not the team that their fans once thought they were.

     
  • Posts: 0 bob

    WOW all this hype and barring a very last min change, Roy Halladay is staying in Toronto. He’s gotta be PISSED! And I couldn’t blame him.

    Your WFC’s of the 2009 trade deadline (in the words of Dan Baker): “YOUR 200 and 9 PHILLLLLLLLADELPHIA PHILLIES!”

     
  • Posts: 0 Phils Rule

    Is Myers in Clearwater now rehabbing? Any idea how long he will be there? Will be in Clearwater in a couple weeks and looking to see him rehab.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Dipsy: Would you agree with me in that if Pedro can’t put up solid outings at LV, then he should be released? And by solid outings I mean: an average of 6 IP, 2-3 ER…

    Everyone in our starting rotation can do that (or better) right now. I hate to see how we’re all thinking how to mold the Phillies to fit Pedro, rather than mold Pedro to fit the Phillies.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Manny – If that happened, I would probably tell him that we’re gonna give ya a couple shots outta the pen and see how ya do. If he even frowns or twitches his face at the idea, I’d release him. Hey, he’s already paid, right?

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Chuck P. -first base i suppose…no way they take Varitek out for the post season. i remember that rotation when Varitek went down a few years ago….not pretty to say the least. I say he pinch hits unless Lowell post op hip pain is worse than it is and they plan to move Youk to third and v-mart to first. once their batting cold spell passes the Sox will be that much more troublesome

     
  • Posts: 0 Dave

    Look, currently, Happ is one of our best pitchers. You want to put your best pitchers in the most important spots, which would be
    1) the starting rotation 2) closer 3) setup man/men.
    Now, moving Happ to the bullpen? Maybe, under other circumstances. But he’s not going to play an important role there. He’ll be the 2nd long inning reliever behind Park. When he was in the bullpen they barely used him.

    Let’s put it this way. Would you trade a good starter for a below-average one and a marginal bullpen arm? Because that’s what you’re doing if you put Happ in the pen for Moyer (and that’s assuming Moyer can’t be the 2nd long inning guy, which I really do doubt. Happ wasn’t exactly setting the world on fire as a bullpen arm).

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Sounds good to me…

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Well put, Dave

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    j reed… I think that Martinez can be a pinch hitter/spot starter for Lowell/Youk and Tek for a while but how can you not start him in the playoffs? V-Mart has been on fire this year; hitting .284 with 15 HR and 67 RBI for a brutal Cleveland team. Varitek – .238, 14 HR, 44 RBI. ‘Tek has good power numbers and he’s a good receiver but that’s about it.

     
  • Posts: 0 bob

    Rotation should be:

    Lee-Hamels-Blanton-Happ-Moyer/Martinez (u can give Jamie a start or 2 off here and there). They brought in Pedro to help the starters.

    Happ doesn’t deserve to be taken out of the rotation, but he may very well be. Cant see them throwing Jamie in the pen and can’t see them eating 10 mil (I beleve) between the end of this year and next.

    Then you are looking at Lee-Hamels-Blanton-Moyer-Martinez. That doesn’t look too bad either if Moyer keep pitching well and Pedro can be a 6 IP 2-3 run pitcher. BIG IF!

    Either way, a nice problem to have.

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    WE GOT ROY HOLLIDAY PHILS TRADED DREBECK TAYLOR HAPP AND JOE SAVERY FOR HOLLIDAY CHECK ESPN NEWS

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Drabek not DREBECK!

     
  • Posts: 0 Repeat!

    RED REDD WAT EVER

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    ChucK P. -oh i think V-Mart will start, definitely but not behind the plate. …i think V-mart’s defense improved some but was considered the worst defensive catcher in MLB just two years ago and he can’t call a game like Varitek…Not only that Varitek is the captain of the team. Also V-Mart would have to learn to catch all those pitchers in a month….No, maybe in the off season v-mart will replace him but last thing Francona wants in his club house is a rotation of pissed of starters going down the stretch.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Chuck P. – So what did they give up for V-Mart?

     
  • Posts: 0 Terrence

    Around the Majors today:

    - Dodgers acquire Vinny Rottino from Brewers for Claudio Vargas

    - Twins acquire Orlando Cabrera from Athlectics for Tyler Ladendorf

    - Red Sox acquire Victor Martinez from Indians for Bryan Price, Justin Masterson and Nick Hagadone

    - Blue Jays acquire Sean Smith from Pirates for future considerations

    - Yankees acquire Jerry Hairston Jr. from Reds for Chase Weems

    - Rockies acquire Joe Beimel from Nationals for two minor leaguers

    - Red Sox acquire Casey Kotchman from Braves for Adam LaRoche

    - Marlins acquire Nick Johnson from Nationals for Aaron Thompson and cash

    - Reds acquire Scott Rolen from Blue Jays for Edwin Encarcion and a minor leaguer.

    Opinion: Well the trade deadline is over but still there will be alot of more of moves made with the waiver wire deals in August. And remember phils have acquired Matt Stairs and Jamie Moyer in August. The Red Sox are gonna have to do something with Varitek because Victor Martinez isn’t a guy who you sit. He could be moved in August because he is a free agent at the end of the year.

     
  • Posts: 0 Terrence

    From MLBTradeRumors:

    Jake Peavy Dealt To White Sox Again

    Not sure what to make of this, but SI’s Jon Heyman tweeted that Padres pitcher Jake Peavy was dealt to the White Sox again. Heyman is not sure if Peavy OK’d it. He says the Padres get minor leaguers. Peavy is currently recovered from a torn ankle tendon.

    Also Roy Halladay didn’t get traded so J.P was just all words no action.

     
  • Posts: 0 Terrence

    Early Winners and Losers from me

    Winners
    Red Sox: Got Martinez without trading any top prospect and kept Clay Buchholz. Also got Kotchman for LaRoche who they traded earlier for. Not to mention added depth with Chris Duncan.

    Phillies: Total Robbery from Indians to get Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco

    Twins: Needed a middle INF and they got a solid one in Cabrera.

    Marlins: Couldn’t get the bullpen help but still got a nice productive bat in Johnson and they don’t have to pay his contract as the Nats are doing it.

    Orioles: They got a real nice young guy Josh Bell to replace Mora in the future and a solid pitcher in Steve Johnson. Sherrill was 32 anyways so he wouldn’t fit in O’s future.

    Tigers: Basically stole Washburn from M’s. With Verlander, Jackson and Washburn they could be tough to score on in the postseason.

    Cardinals: Holliday, Lugo – Both have been fantastic since coming over

    Giants: Sanchez and Garko very two good solid bats
    Losers
    Rays: Were involved in Martinez, Lee, Bell and Gonzalez. In the end they got nothing while the two teams ahead of the Rays did acquire depth. Because of this Rays might suffer.

    Angels: Basically they were involved everywhere from Halladay to Bell. They didn’t do anything.

    Blue Jays: Roy Halladay stays with team and jays will have to suffer for this because they won’t get much leverage as they were now. J.P is on the very very hot seat. They trade a defensive gem in Rolen to loosen up money and they acquire Encarcion. Also got Sean Smith

    Indians: Got robbed by the Phillies.

    Pirates: Wilson, Sanchez, LaRoche you name it everyone is gone. Who duke might be on waivers the way pirates are going.

    Dodgers: Didn’t get a starter. Got one bullpen arm who will only share with broxton not to mention gave up two solid guys. this could hurt dodgers. they should have atleast gotten more than 1 bullpen guy. their bullpen is gonna suffer

    braves: get laroche but they needed something else to push them to chase for the wild card.

     
  • Posts: 0 Terrence

    Breaking News:

    White Sox acquire Jake Peavy from Padres for Aaron Poreda, Adam Russell, Dexter Carter and Clayton Richard. Peavy approved the deal

    Rolen deal is complete.

    Reds acquire Scott Rolen from Reds for Edwin Encarcion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart.

    Peavy Deal Opinion: Well since the Tigers and Twins made moves the White Sox also had to. This makes White Sox a winner but not a big fan of Peavy. His numbers were a little absurd pitching at Petco Park. He is also coming off injury and will need time to rehab not to mention he is owed alot of money. Peavy is owed $56MM through 2012, or $74MM through 2013 if the Sox exercise his option.

     
  • Posts: 0 Terrence

    Reds acquire Scott Rolen from Reds for Edwin Encarcion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart.

    Sorry it should be Reds acquire Scott Rolen from Blue Jays for Edwin Encarcion, Josh Roenicke and Zach Stewart.

     
  • Posts: 0 Dave

    It’s been crazy seeing this many trades go down at the wire. I’m just happy most of this is happening in the AL so it’s not really affecting the Phillies until a possible World Series. I still think we need a utility infielder to replace Bruntlett, but what do I know. I’m happy with getting Cliff Lee and Ben Francisco, hopefully they put us over the top, although the way we have played lately I don’t know what to think.

     
 
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