Commentary: We are all crazy
Posted by Pat Gallen, Fri, July 24, 2009 08:25 AM | Comments: 106
Analysis, Commentary, Issues, Opinion, Posts
Crazy can be good, crazy can be bad. But lump us all into the same boat right now. What I mean by that statement is, Phillies fans, generally speaking, are getting into crazy territory.
On one hand, fandom is at an all time high, and I couldn’t be happier for this city, this franchise, this great group of people who follow this team inside and out everyday. We pack the house nightly, spending our hard earned money on a team that knows how to entertain.
On the other hand, we’ve become unhinged over a player; a man who plays in country just north of here. The Roy Halladay Extravaganza has nearly reached its fever pitch, and people everywhere are constantly refreshing their browser waiting, hoping, for an update. I’m just as guilty as the rest, perhaps because my “job” is to write about all things Phillies, and I’m somewhat ashamed of my actions.
As far as being a fan, I can’t say I’ve enjoyed myself more than I have over the last year. As I walked into Citizens Bank Park on Tuesday for game two of the Cubs series, the stadium appeared to be a giant magnet. People were being sucked through the gates by forces foreign to them. Forty-five thousand strong all pulled in by a team that gives us reason to care.
But do we care a bit too much? The constant trade proposals by armchair GM’s has hit a new level that may be unparalleled. It certainly shows that the fan is immersed in the day-to-day happenings of the organization, but it also reflects the relative obsession over one player. Over and over in my head, and occasionally on a pad of paper, I’ve written down Halladay’s name and below it the names of rotating Phillies farmhands that may be involved. Sickness? You betcha.
Do I want to see Roy Halladay in red pinstripes? Who doesn’t. But, do I spend far too much time on the subject? Guilty as charged. Only a few more days until the madness subsides and we get back to breaking down spray charts and how Chan Ho Park fares with runners on and two out in high leverage situations in the month of August.
We might all be crazy, but at least we’re crazy together, rooting for the same craziness in the same crazy ballpark.
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
Pat – We all want Halladay and we’re all consumed by it (or should be)- and its a lotta fun. I was at work yesterday and making a presentation and I lost my train of though. Beacuse I was thinking about Roy. Mark me down as “guilty” Go Ruben Go.
The Dipsy
Posted: 08:35 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Bob
You can NEVER care too much. It is what makes Philly fans some of the best in the world. We cheer, boo, heckle and praise. We do it all because we are behind our teams, in every sport (yes even the Sixers count).
I just want to know one way or the other what is going to happen, just like every one else!
GO PHILS!
Posted: 08:37 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Lou
I concur. I teach during the school year. I have plenty of time in the Summer. I only teach in the evenings now. I have been a fan since ’64
and this is exciting. I am constantly checking all the blogs and creating
trade prospects in my head for Roy. If what I have read is true, Roy seems to be a man of good character and a willing mentor like Jamie .
I am all for that.
Posted: 08:38 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Crane Kick
I’m Halladizzy. That was lame. Sorry.
Posted: 08:46 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Im guessing people have commented already, but heard last night, and then read this morning that Amaro said Drabek “Is not an Untouchable”
… not like this is or isn’t breaking news, but its just the GMs getting a feel for each other through the media.
I’ve been saying all along that I think it will cost ONE of Happ or Drabek
plus ONE of Taylor or Brown
…and I guess Jason Donald, and something else.. which is a lot, but you look at your chance of winning with our
CURRENT ROSTER PLUS ROY HALLADAY..
vs
our PROJECTED ROSTER IF WE KEEP ALL OUR PROSPECTS
I think the easy winner is our current roster with the addition of Halladay gives us the better chance at a World Series title
Posted: 09:06 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 PhillyPhaninIndy
I agree and think we should get Halladay and win the World title again this year. Although its obviously no guarantee, a bird in the hand, well you know.
Posted: 09:13 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
So now the price (acc to Heyman) is
Drabek or Happ
Taylor or Brown
plus (my guess) one of Donald/Marson/Carrasco (though if theyre including Drabek then they should protect Carrasco at least)
filler like Kendrick/Carpenter
thats pretty steep. Two top 25 prospects is a lot. JA Happ isnt getting traded so it would be Drabek that goes. Its not an option to trade Happ because he is already a known quantity. If forced to choose, Drabek would be traded. The OF’s are a wash in my eyes because Theyre both blocked so youre going to have to trade one of them.
Posted: 09:40 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
sTILL, Cliff Lee isnt that much worse than Halladay so it may be a good idea to save SOME prospects by going after him.
Posted: 09:42 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
wait, so what is the news that Heyman is saying..
ONE of the pitchers, ONE of the Outfielders.. PLUS other guys, right?
Two top 25 prospects is a lot, but Roy Halladay is a lot… better than almost any other pitcher in baseball … Ruben will do it, he knows they can win now and next year with this team … get ready for Halladay, the countdown is T-minus ONE WEEK
Posted: 09:54 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I think till happen by Tues or Wed or else he wont get traded at all…becuase hell set the market for the rest of the starters so it HAS to be the first big move in terms of starting pitching.
Posted: 09:56 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Thats what I’ve been saying the package will be the whole time.. because to get a player as good as Halladay.. you have to give up prospects as good as Drabek, Taylor, etc..
You have to make the trade worth it for the Blue Jays
They need a SS, so Jason Donald is probably gone..
I would like to keep Marson if we can
Posted: 10:02 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Ben
not sure if we can’t move happ. just to play devils advocate, happ is really projected to be a solid #3 starter for most of his career. drabek is projected to be a #2 or better, and is really not too far away from the bigs.
then again, drabek already has had major surgery.
whatever, i can deal with either of them going, the doc will cure all our ailments.
Posted: 10:03 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Bob
I heard on DNL last night that Halladay is not willing to negotate a contract extension. He wants to test the free agent market. Hopefully this changes when he experiences playing baseball in a true baseball town.
Does this change anyone’s opinion? I believe we get 2 picks if he walks after next season.
I say you still do it because they have a shot at 2 rings in the next 2 years. We can use the 2 picks to plug up a couple gaps left by the trade.
This is why Ruben gets paid the big bucks…..
Posted: 10:06 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Drabek MIGHT be able to pitch in the rotation next year… then again he MIGHT NOT.
so give him up.. give me a Starting Rotation of:
Roy Halladay, Cole Hamels, Joe Blanton, JA Happ, and Jamie Moyer/Pedro Martinez
and I’ll show you my tickets stubs for the World Series in 2009
Posted: 10:12 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Hmm… haven’t we been saying this all along?
Listen guys, it’s obvious that mix will get it done. The question is, “Do they need to give up all of that to get it done?”
How badly do the BJ’s need to dump salary and what else is really on the table from other teams?
Everything that we have heard so far has been posturing… everything…
I feel like the Phillies might be able to get the deal done without Happ/Drabek… if the BJ’s play the hard line, that’s fine with me and I’m ok with sending them Drabek but it would be really nice to get this deal done without him and you have to explore every option that might be out there… patience, Rube.
Thought that this was interesting… Kyle Blanks hit a 2 run homer in yesterday’s game. He was born in the same hospital as Jamie Moyer (my wife works there)… thought that was interesting.
They should have pulled Ho in the 9th… his line would have been 2/3 ip with 1 total pitch.
Posted: 10:12 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Yes it does. If he wants to test the waters that lowers his value. To me, that means substituting one of those two top 25 propsects theyre demanding with a B prospect.
Posted: 10:13 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
You gotta play hardball with Riccardi. If his guy isnt going to re-sign with you then you make him lower the price. You dont let him walk all over you just because its Roy Halladay.
Posted: 10:16 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Philly Texan
Ben,
the reason we can’t trade Happ is because it hurts our current rotation. Drabek might be a better pitcher in the long run. But if we trade for Halladay, it means we’re really going for it this year and next, when we’ll need Happ in the rotation as a #4 or #5.
I read in the Inky this morning that multiple sources are saying the Jays want Drabek AND Happ AND Brown/Taylor.
Has anyone seen this reported elsewhere?
If the Jays really want that much, it would probably kill the deal…..
Posted: 10:17 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
New Report:
http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/20090724_As_trade_deadline_nears__talks_for_Halladay_heat_up.html
Posted: 10:17 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
That says the asking price is Drabek AND Happ AND more…
my response: HAHAHAHAHAH – if thats the case then we should start calling the Indians.
Posted: 10:18 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Ruben don’t cave!
Drabek, (Brown or taylor), Donald, Marson, prospect pitcher(not Carrasco and not Knapp) for
Halladay and Downs.
Posted: 10:18 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Now, back to the craziness: I’d like to keep Marson, too. Yesterday I heard on TV that currently, only one starting catcher has played less than 300 (or 400?) games in the minors before going to big club full-time (Mauer). For that premium position, it is normal for players to stay in the minors for a while, so having Marson there waiting for his time is ok. I’d previously thought that he simply wasn’t as good as I thought because he wasn’t already in the bigs.
Posted: 10:19 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Philly Texan: Wow…that sounds ridiculous. I’d NEVER pull the trigger on that!
Posted: 10:23 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
all of the writers in Philly keep saying HAPP + DRABEK + BROWN + …
meanwhile, all of the guys in the national media know the Phillies shouldn’t and won’t give up the world for a pitcher.
If you trade Happ, your overall rotation is still better.. but you still don’t have a complete starting rotation.. its hard to be better than Happ has been this year, so getting rid of him will plug one hole, but open another.
…
Catcher is such a demanding position that you have to be 100% sure of the guy you put back there.. Marson’s strong suit is his offense.. which is why he will stay in the minors until his defense catches up … or if at some point his offense is THAT MUCH BETTER than Carlos Ruiz .. but Ruiz has a firm hold on the job this year, and probably going into next season too.
Posted: 10:26 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Type A = two picks as compensation (the purchasing team’s first round pick and a supplemental pick)… I actually thought there were two picks PLUS two supplemental picks…
I don’t think that you want to talk extension until later next year. His contract is reasonable and you never know what might happen between now and next year.
Posted: 10:27 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Philly Texan
Manny,
I agree. No way we can trade Drabek and Happ — and adding Brown in there just makes it ludicrous.
If we’re going to trade Drabek — and sacrifice part of the future — then Happ has to be untouchable so we can maximize the next two years.
I hope the Inquirer story is just posturing by the Jays.
Anyone seen it reported anywhere else?
Posted: 10:28 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
The Blue Jays would rather trade Halladay and get a few good prospects, then hold out for the extra guy..
Halladay will be here in a week.. mark my words
…
since we get TWO chances at the World Series with Halladay under team control, I would definitely make this deal.. who cares if he leaves after 2010.. worry about that when the time comes.
We have a chance to put together the greatest string of seasons in Phillies history.. you have to go after the titles while they are in reach
Posted: 10:30 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
DAMN IT BRETTY MYERS! Why did you have to get injured?!??!?!?!?!
Posted: 10:43 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Matthew
Did everyone in this city forget that Kenny Powers is a free agent?
Posted: 10:44 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Ruiz is going to be the catcher for a long time… I think that’s clear. He’s starting to find his stroke in the big leagues (he once led the minor leagues in HR’s so he can hit) and his defense is up there with the best catchers in baseball. I believe that he will be an all-star next year… this year, Manuel has vocally commended Ruiz’ efforts to study and be a better big league hitter. Ruiz was born to catch.
I like Marson but as long as Ruiz is here Marson’s path to the majors is blocked.
Posted: 10:47 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Bob
How about a big FU to Riccardi for that one? LMFAO…..there is NO FRIGGIN way that they are getting Happ AND Drabek. One or the other probably but not both. Plus Brown AND more…..LOL.
Posted: 10:49 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
It’s got to take Riccardi and the Jays being willing to get a deal done now, it’s a great disservice to Halladay that the Jays and potential suitors haven’t even exchanged names yet so all our talk has really been for nothing because the Jays don’t even know who they want. Riccardi has been grandstanding and letting the baseball media run wild surely hoping that tactic would magically create several top prospects rich packages from different team.
The Phils are the only team with the top-prospects, major league ready prospects capable of taking on Halladay’s salary. Personally I don’t think considering the market the Phils should give up one of Happ/Drabek AND one of Brown/Taylor considering the other prospects that would be headed to Toronto, but I fully recognise my view may be in the minority.
All I can say is for whatever package it is I hope Halladay’s welcomed with total appreciation for the player he is and given every reason to want to stay in Philly, I hope Toronto fans erect a giant size voodoo doll outside the Rodgers Centre for the Jays fans to show their feelings.
(Shoddy Shoddy person that Riccardi, Beane’s a critter of a baseball personality who’s earned something, Riccardi’s just a pretty-faced assholic self-aggrandising fool of a disciple…)
Posted: 10:49 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Yankees inquired about Cliff Lee… price tag for Lee will be Joba, Hughes plus others.
Can we stop talking about Cliff Lee??
Posted: 10:49 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
“We hear that the Blue Jays are sending assistant GM/player personnel Tony La Cava to scout Carlos Carrasco(notes), who is scheduled to pitch Thursday in Georgia against the Gwinnett Braves for the Phillies’ Triple-A team, the Lehigh Valley IronPigs. The right-handed Carrasco is the Philadelphia Phillies’ pitching prospect rated closest to the big leagues and was ranked as the team’s No. 1 pitching prospect the last two years before being supplanted by Kyle Drabek”
Posted: 10:50 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Jeff
Your wrong…Halliday can demand a trade at the end of the season. Its in his contract. We can lose him after this year. You cannot give up drabek and happ. Keep happ. Get rid of moyer. You will have a very solid rotation.
Posted: 10:52 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Kenny Phucking Powers … has a nice ring to it !!!
Posted: 10:54 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
I’m definitely not OK with giving up Drabek AND Brown/Taylor AND more prospects… This team is gonna suckkkkkk in 2011+, like the Mets.. older players past their prime falling in 4th place. Yuck.
Posted: 10:54 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Philly Texan
Manny,
Where was that report from?
If they’re scouting Carrasco at this point — maybe he would be in the deal.
Drabek, Carrasco, Brown and Kendrick.
Steep price. But I would make that trade.
Posted: 10:54 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Would be very surprised if the Yanks offer up Hughes any time soon, 17 appearances with a 0.74 ERA in 24.1 innings with a .145 batting average against, no way they take that arm out of what would be a weak bullpen without him.
Posted: 10:55 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Jeff
Right now who cares about 2011. Utley, Howard, Ibanez, Rollins and the rest of this team has a window for the next 3-5 years. Win now.
Posted: 10:57 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Philly Texan
Drabek could be a 20-game winner for the Phils in 2012, and Brown could be hitting .300 and we still could be in third or fourth place. (just like the Indians with Lee and Sizemore). Who knows what will happen.
Me?
I’d rather take a shot at three world series in a row.
Posted: 10:58 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
The Phillies arent going to give up Carrasco AND Drabek and all that. Their TOP TWO pitching prospects? get outta here man.
Posted: 10:58 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Bob
Im in the trade for Halladay pool, but Im also in the let’s play hardball pool, as crazy as this makes our fans.
I concur that no matter what we give up to land Halladay he should and would be welcomed with open arms.
Halladay will NOT demand a trade after this season. He wants to play for a winner.
Riccardi will get desperate and we will NOT be trading both Happ and Drabek. That is ridiculous when they will get Drabek OR Happ and Brown, not to mention 2-3 other prospects. As much as I want Halladay, JR will not give both Drabek and Happ.
Posted: 10:59 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
PhillyTexan: it’s from Yahoo, http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ge-tradenotes072309&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
If they end up giving Drabek, they better hang on to Carrasco. Giving up your 2008 Futures Game all-star starter and the 2009 Futures game all-star pitcher in the same deal would be RIDICULOUS. You want to keep at least one of those two so that they can pitch with the Phillies under team control for 5 years or so.
Posted: 11:01 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Was about to say that Geoff, those two PLUS Brown… No way! Maybe if the Phils have a team seriously clipping on it’s heels but that’s not the case, Toronto want the kind of package from us no-one can meet because there’s no way in hell the Brewers offer up both Escobar and Gamel.
Posted: 11:01 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Miles
If anyone read Jayson Stark’s last Rumblings and Grumblings blog he pointed out that scouts are starting to wonder why Brown is being viewed as having more potential than Taylor. He pointed out that some still think Brown is better because he was the higher pick. I still think the guy to go after here is Zach Duke. The Pirates are trading away everything. I bet we can get Duke for Brown and not much else. I know that gives them concern about righty heavy lineups with all of those lefties, but I still think its a better option if the Halladay price tag doesn’t go down.
Posted: 11:04 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck
That article sounded like Happ AND Drabek to me as well. Forget that. One or the other but not both. As I’ve said all along Happ is my choice to stay with the Phillies. He’s a proven #3(really a #2 this year…and you COULD make a strong case that he’s pitching like an ace right now).
Posted: 11:04 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Until I actually hear what names Toronto asks for – which hasnt happened yet – all of this speculation from the local and national media about who the Phils would trade, who the Jays are asking for and how the Phils need to overpay is TOTALLY, COMPLETELY ABSURD.
Lets just NOT take these speculations as gospel until there are real reports from the media that reveal what the Jays actually asked for.
Posted: 11:04 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Bob
Oh they can have Drabek AND Carrasco. Just not Drabek and Happ.
I would do, if needed, Drabek-Carrasco-Brown-Donald…..no way RAJ will deal Happ and kill the farm.
Posted: 11:04 AM on July 24, 2009
Posts: 0 Miles
Also @Geoff, you have been flipping out every time anyone even suggests trading Happ or Drabek in the last couple weeks, but now its ok for you to suggest that Drabek could be gone? Just checking…
Posted: 11:05 AM on July 24, 2009