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Commentary: We are all crazy

Posted by Pat Gallen, Fri, July 24, 2009 08:25 AM | Comments: 106
Analysis, Commentary, Issues, Opinion, Posts

Toronto Blue Jays pitcher Roy Halladay watches from the dugout during a baseball game against the Boston Red Sox in Toronto on Friday, July 17, 2009. (AP Photo/The Canadian Press, Darren Calabrese)Crazy can be good, crazy can be bad.  But lump us all into the same boat right now. What I mean by that statement is, Phillies fans, generally speaking, are getting into crazy territory.

On one hand, fandom is at an all time high, and I couldn’t be happier for this city, this franchise, this great group of people who follow this team inside and out everyday.  We pack the house nightly, spending our hard earned money on a team that knows how to entertain.

On the other hand, we’ve become unhinged over a player; a man who plays in country just north of here.  The Roy Halladay Extravaganza has nearly reached its fever pitch, and people everywhere are constantly refreshing their browser waiting, hoping, for an update.  I’m just as guilty as the rest, perhaps because my “job” is to write about all things Phillies, and I’m somewhat ashamed of my actions.

As far as being a fan, I can’t say I’ve enjoyed myself more than I have over the last year.  As I walked into Citizens Bank Park on Tuesday for game two of the Cubs series, the stadium appeared to be a giant magnet.  People were being sucked through the gates by forces foreign to them.  Forty-five thousand strong all pulled in by a team that gives us reason to care.

But do we care a bit too much?  The constant trade proposals by armchair GM’s has hit a new level that may be unparalleled.  It certainly shows that the fan is immersed in the day-to-day happenings of the organization, but it also reflects the relative obsession over one player.  Over and over in my head, and occasionally on a pad of paper, I’ve written down Halladay’s name and below it the names of rotating Phillies farmhands that may be involved.  Sickness? You betcha.

Do I want to see Roy Halladay in red pinstripes?  Who doesn’t.  But, do I spend far too much time on the subject? Guilty as charged. Only a few more days until the madness subsides and we get back to breaking down spray charts and how Chan Ho Park fares with runners on and two out in high leverage situations in the month of August.

We might all be crazy, but at least we’re crazy together, rooting for the same craziness in the same crazy ballpark.

Avatar of Pat Gallen

About Pat Gallen

Pat Gallen has written 1714 articles on Phillies Nation.

Pat is Editor-in-Chief of Phillies Nation. He also covers the Phils for 97.5 FM in Philly.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I heard that before about Halladay’s option after this season? But he is under contract for next season at $15.75 Million.. and I haven’t heard anything else about his contract .. if he had the chance to become a Free Agent.. we would have heard about it by now.. and the Red Sox and Yankees, or Dodgers, Cubs, etc would just outbid each other and pay him $20+ Million as a Free Agent

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    I am sure Rueben will do whats in the best interest for this team. He got all our big guys signed including Howard. He brought you Ibanez which has worked out very nicely. He made the switch with Happ. He will not hurt this team and he knows how to do his job. We can guess all day and listen to nobody reporters from yahoo. Its all speculation.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    Joe Savery is flying under the radar behind Carrassco…..they have prospects if you trade Drabek-Carrasco.

    With your 1-2-3 of Halladay-Hamels-Happ for the next 2 years (At least) you have time to plug those holes.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I think common sense tells you which players are good enough to land Roy Halladay.. I think the Philadelphia media doesn’t know baseball as much as the National Baseball guys..

    but an offer of Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, Jason Donald.. and one or two more guys

    for Roy Halladay and a pitcher from the Blue Jays

    could work for everyone

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    Agree 100% Don M.

     
  • Posts: 0 Philly Texan

    I’ll buy Carrasco’s ticket to Toronto if it gets us Halladay.

    I really have doubts about him. Baseball lore is filled with guys who had great stuff but lacked the makeup to be a big-league pitcher.

    He’s 22 — been in the system for, what, five years? It’s time. The fact that some soft-tossing retread like Lopez got the call-up recently tells me that the Phils have their doubts about Carrasco too.

    Drabek, Carrasco, Brown and Donald or Kendrick.

    Again, it’s steep, but I’d do that deal. We hang on to Taylor and Knapp. (And I read some scouts think Knapp has a higher ceiling than Drabek.)

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    When it comes to Happ this really is a non-issue if you think when the last time was a guy in the thick of the race for ROY was dealt during that season, can’t recall any myself… Can anyone dispute this?

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    I’m with Miles on the Zack Duke thing. Offer them Dominic Brown, our top prospect in the whole system, and they’ll probably bite.

    I think that we get carried away thinking that we really need another ace because Hamels is sucking this year… I wonder if people would’ve been this desperate to make this trade otherwise. It’s like we forgot what this guy is capable of, especially in the postseason. He’ll come around –he is showing some signs in his last 2 starts. If this team really wants to win, like last year, we’ll beat whoever pitcher is standing in our way.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Lets see Happ against a real major league baseball lineup tonight before we are ready to crown him as our ACE

    I said yesterday I think his wins as a Starter came against, Washington, San Diego, Florida, Pittsburgh, and some other lousy team..

    He’s pitching great, don’t get me wrong.. but this might be his ceiling for how good he can ever be in his career ?? you just never know.. I think to count on Happ to always be this good would be foolish… to count on Happ as an effective #3, #4 would be the smarter way to go.

    Keith Law (who im not a big fan of) said that in the AL EAST, Happ would be the #5 starter on most of those teams .. which is true.. so lets not pretend like he is Cy Young. Take what he gives you, which right now is better than what Hamels gives you.. .which is why we need Halladay

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Thats not a bad deal…id say if that Jays added either one of their LH relievers (Downs, more likely Tallet) or Kevil Millar (RH Pinch HItter perfect for CBP – dead pull hitter)…then thats a good propsoal

     
  • Posts: 0 Julian

    What if Myers never went down and we still made a move for Halladay (highly unlikely)

    Halladay, Hamels, Myers, Blanton, Happ

    Damn.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Its hard to see how hed be a number 5 starter on some of those teams given his performance and his ERA. he shut down the yankees lineup – posada i dont repect at this stage of his career – total bad yankees re-signing wasting money type contract. A-Rod was in the lineup and is worshipped and hailed by everyone (except me)…so shutting down Texeira and those other hitters is no big deal? The guy also threw a CG shutout against the Jays – who have a decent grinding lineup actually.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    To answer your question Manny: YES

    How many times has a pitcher of Halladay’s caliber been available to the Phillies?

    It guarantees nothing, but this is the chance this team needs to take (outside of dealing Drabek AND Happ). It is the Phillies chance to erase all the negatives of years past (“we’re a small market team).

    10,000th loss feels like years ago. We can truly call ourselves elite if we do this. We will be up there with the Red Sox and Yankees.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    Has anyone heard of two prospects by the names of Wood and Prior. How did they work out in the big leagues. Halliday has a track record. Get him..He will love playing in the NL and with an offense that is the best. 5 runs per game for him maybe 22 and he will love it here.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I mentioned yesterday that if Halladay doesn’t happen… that Zach Duke for the cost of Carrasco and Taylor was better than nothing.

    I think Dominic Brown needs to stay put unless we get Halladay or Lee … because he has the CHANCE to be a stud in the future..

    If we don’t go all-in right now, you have to make sure you keep the farm system loaded. Taylor and Carrasco won’t be playing for us next year.. maybe in the 2nd half of next year, but not to start it.. so they can both go if it helps us now..

    I think Happ was on a pitch count vs. the Yankees.. Posada was on the DL, and A-Rod had just returned and was hitting like .200.. Happ looked good. Don’t get me wrong, I like him a lot.. I think people are confusing our confidence in him, with their expectations FOR him …

    I don’t expect him to have this kind of sucess next year, or the year after..
    He will probably be a solid pitcher with an ERA around 4.00 for his career.. which is really, really good.. but not great

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Don, I never said I was ready to “crown Happ as our Ace.” I said that THIS year he’s been pitching like an ace right now. Look, it’s obvious that Hamels is having a sub-par year. Blanton has been really good of late. In my book, there really hasn’t been a CLEAR ace this year. You could say that any one of those 3 guys could fill that role, depending on their latest performance. I agree….tonight against the Cards is a big test for J.A. Happ. He sparkles and shines, then he’s probably not going to be traded for sure. He doesn’t and it’s maybe another story.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jack

    Just got a text from a friend of mine saying a deal for Halladay will be finalized by noon. He has updates on his phone, but I can not find it online anywhere. Can some one confirm?

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    I’ve said this before…

    Drabek probably will be special… but this TEAM is special. We probably won’t have this team in three years when Drabek is hitting his stride… even if Drabek wins 20 games, he’s not enough to win a world series. Maybe Brown and Taylor will be really good but I know for certain that with Halladay this team is the odds on favorites to make it to the WS this year and next. This team deserves the support… they deserve that chance.

    Stand firm, don’t give up any more than you have to but get it done… and I think that Rube shares my viewpoint.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    I don’t give a damn about having an “elite” label. Doesn’t take you anywhere.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    If we give him half the run support that we give Jamie Moyer, Halladay could win 25 game next year as a Phillie…

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Yeah, Original, in three years this team is different in some ways. All teams in this day and age are. But to say that “Drabek’s not enough to win a WS” is a ridiculous statement. How in the he!! do you know that?

    I agree, make a serious effort to get Halladay for now and give the team and all of us a chance at multiple titles. But…..let’s try not to suck in three years, either.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Happ pitches today… Halladay pitches today… I HATE THIS. Please don’t trade Happ!

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Drabek’s not enough to win a WS THIS YEAR ….. but the other 90% of our team is..

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Actually, you can lump any of our pitchers in there… Hamels has gotten the most run support this year (8.75) with Moyer at 8.52, Blanton at 7.59, Myers at 7.21… JA Happ at 5.74 and CH Park at 4.80 are the only two with limited run support.

    Halladay gets 6.95 RS.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Completely off this thread’s topic….but is is not obvious after Andrew Carpenter’s performance last night that we seriously need bullpen help?
    With Romero on the shelf and Lidge always making us wonder what’s going to happen, getting a late inning guy or even a closer (George Sherrill) is absulutely necessary…..maybe just as necessary as Roy Halladay.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    Well I give a damn about winning another World Series and winning 2 in a row certainly makes us “elite”.

    I think they can win now as is. But I feel the fans and more importantly the core of this team is owed a pitcher of Halladay’s caliber. We have the pieces to do it AND the upper hand. The Jays NEED to trade him or they will get .30 cents of a dollar for him in the offseason or next year. The price of Drabek AND Happ will come down. That is the only way that I nix this is if they want Drabek AND Happ, but that won’t happen.

    Halladay-Hamels-Happ-Blanton-Moyer/Martinez/Lopez sounds pretty damn good to me for the rest of the season. It would be nice to take the pressure off of our 24 year old ace.

    IF Drabek OR Happ plus others become stars, it’s good to know that they won’t hurt us often being that they are in the American League.

    The time is now, not 2011, 12, 13, 14 and so. Right now, 2009. It’s not 2007 anymore, this team knows HOW to win. They know they can win. And Roy Halladay will certainly help make us that “elite” team.

     
  • Posts: 0 TODDFROMFAIRMOUNT

    Whether we get him or not isn’t by greatest concern. The possibility of the Doyers or the Cardinals getting him is what scares me to sleepless nights. :)

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Cards are ouf of the Halladay sweepsteakes with the pickup of Holladay from Oakland.

    The Athletics and Cardinals have completed a trade that sends outfielder Matt Holliday to St. Louis in exchange for third baseman Brett Wallace, outfielder Shane Peterson and right-handed pitcher Clayton Mortensen, sources confirmed to ESPN The Magazine’s Buster Olney.

     
  • Posts: 0 george

    just get a deal done already for the guy who cares who you have to give up.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    To george and all others who share that sentiment- How can a deal get done quickly when Toronto hasn’t even exchanged the names of the players they want…? It’s not the Phils who’ve been dragging their feet on this

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Todd, don’t worry about the Cards. They just gave up Wallace. No way they give up more prospects on top of that.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    Pat, please don’t make an assumption that all Phillies fans are caught up in the Halladay “madness”. I’m not that “crazy” to be totally consumed and obsessed with every single tidbit of gossip or rumor concerning trade possibilities for Halladay.

    Being a Phillies fan for more than 50 years has taught me that there is something to be said for having cautious skepticism. Being older and wiser, I like to keep it “real” and take a level headed approach to a subject like a possible trade or free agent signing.

    I keep in mind the front office’s past record on payroll commitment and Amaro’s role as GM to maintain his stated limitation on a budget that has already surpassed it’s previous high with this year’s total of $130 million plus. Someone like Halladay would cost $23 million (including the remaining $7 million in 2nd half the season) for 1.5 years that are left on the contract. Amaro has also stated for the record that there are certain prospects that he regards as “untouchable”.

    Considering last year’s world championship success with a rotation of Hamels, Myers, Moyer and Blanton and the current success of this year’s rotation, Amaro likely is not seeing the urgency as fans here seem to think. Amaro’s probable perspective is to see Halladay as a luxury and therefore approach any trade talks with utmost due caution regarding prospects and payroll limitation.

    My bet is that if Halladay decides not to wait for the free agency and waives his no trade clause, he would likely go to LA Dodgers or St. Louis Cards.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Chuck, That’s why the Phils need to insist Downs is added to the deal if we have to part with Drabek and (Brown or Taylor) with other prospects. The Jays are going to dump all contracts they can if Halladay gets dealt.

    Drabek, (Taylor or Brown), Marson, Donald and a minor league pitcher not named Carrassco or Knapp for
    Downs and Halladay.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Let’s be clear that if the RedSox get Gonzalez and the Yankees get Lee the Phils stand no chance without Halladay. Big ifs, but that’s the reality.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mazinman

    Crazy about baseball this time of year is good. Gives us a little excitement before the races really begin to heat up as well as giving us a little distraction from the heat.

    As for Halladay, I would also love to see him in Philly but I have grown into the position that it can’t be for Happ. We really need him in our starting rotation. If they insist on Happ then I want to keep Taylor and Drabek.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Cardinals getting Holliday actually works in our favor.. one less team the Blue Jays can say is itnerested..

    The RedSox have enough pitching.. as do the Yankees..

    The Dodgers don’t have the prospects.. about the only fit is the Phillies.. maybe Tampa Bay? ..

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Thank you, Bruce. Good to see some good old rationality after reading posts like this one: “just get a deal done already for the guy who cares who you have to give up.” I hope fans aren’t evolving into Red Sox/ Yankee types that they cry if they don’t get the No.1 player available in the market every year cause it always has to be “NOW, NOW, NOW”

     
  • Posts: 68 Corey Seidman

    Avatar of Corey Seidman

    The Cards just gave up their top prospect and two others for two months of Matt Holliday, a Scott Boras client who has proven this year that he is a good, but not great player away from Coors Field…how does Billy Beane do it?

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    psujoe….right on!

    Ditto for your comment Mazinman.

    Let’s go Phils!!

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Tampa don’t have the payroll flexibility nor do the Rangers. The Angels have the best major league ready prospects but not the pitching prospects and have supposedly shown not much interest. The Yanks and the Sox both have the prospects but have also shown no real interest and now the Cardinals have nothing to offer. That pretty much leaves the Dodgers who probably don’t have enough in the system unless they offered player/s off their major league roster and the Brewers who’d have to offer up both Escobar and Gamel to match the kind of deal writers suggest the Phillies should be prepared to offer.

    If I’m Amaro I’m not giving up two of my prospects considered to be up there with the best in the game and more if no-one else is forcing the Phils to throw that much into a deal, the suitors just don’t look to be there and more fool Toronto if they go into the off-season with Halladay on their roster

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    Since when do the Yankees have enough pitching?…they could make a play…just because they are…..the Yankees. They are not afraid to spend and to stir things up. Especially if they realize that a Phillies/Yankees WS is a real possibility.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bruce

    I wonder if Holliday will be available for the St. Louis series with the Phillies starting tonight. Maybe this weekend if all the details are worked out (plus a physical exam?).

    I also wonder about the extent of Cards’ front office commitment to Holliday since he can be a free agent at the end of the season.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Beane is brilliant. Thats a huge deal for Oakland getting a player the caliber of Wallace – who presumably will be in MLB next season.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    I can’t believe that the Cards gave up Wallace for Holliday after emphatically saying that they wouldn’t give up Wallace for Halladay.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Maine is speaking with Dr. James Andrews… we all know what that means.

     
  • Posts: 0 chuckS

    Wasn’t Scott Matheison talked about the a few years ago the same way Drabek is now? Not wishing anything bad to Drabek but anything can happen.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bob

    @Manny

    Not everyone that wants Halladay is “NOW, NOW, NOW”. Most of us understand that Ruben is playing the game right now.

    As long as we don’t drop a nuke on our farm system, I don’t see how this is even a debate. If Ruben holds out he may be able keep some key pieces in tact.

    The only NOW NOW NOW is to win. A year and a half (At least) of Halladay gives you the best option.

    Here are the 2 questions I have for people that oppose this:

    1. If this goes down for say (Drabek-Brown-Marson-Carrassco, etc) are you seriously not going to welcome Halladay to Philly?
    2. If we do win the World Series with a 1-2 punch of Halladay-Hamels and have a legit shot to do it next season, would you still oppose?

    IF this happens, it has to be for the right place (ie-not Drabek AND Happ). I realize this, I am not one that thinks we’re screwed without Halladay. BUT I definitely want him and this is painful right now!

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    welcome to the confusing Chuck Club, chuckS…..

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Let’s revisit the teams that might be interested in Halladay:

    NYY – AL east…
    BOS – AL east…
    TB – AL east…
    DET – without Porcello, they have no shot
    CHW – without Beckham, they have no shot
    LAA – are they willing to part ways with Jered Weaver and Brandon Wood?
    TEX – Financially impossible..
    STL – thought that STL would be in the mix but without Wallace, they don’t have enough on the farm
    COL – could find themselves back in the mix… have been playing well, Halladay is from COL, they have a couple of young studs (Fowler, Gonzalez, De Le Rosa, Jimenez, Young Jr.)… not sure if they have the financial firepower and the desire to give up that much young talent.
    SF – while a playoff rotation consisting of Lincecum, Halladay and Cain would surely send chills down the spines of every other team in the NL, something tells me that they can’t pull it off without Bumgarner and that’s probably not gonna happen.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Oh yea, LAD – with 0 top 50 prospects, they would have to take from their ML roster… probably not gonna give up Loney or Kemp for 1.5 years of Halladay.

     
 
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