Halladay or Prospects: Take Your Pick
Posted by Pat Gallen, Tue, July 14, 2009 09:30 AM | Comments: 151
Analysis, News, Opinion, Posts, Prospecting
Many a general manager has been fired in this league over the term “potential.” For every Cole Hamels, there is a Pat Combs; for every Chase Utley, a Steve Jeltz.
The Phillies find themselves peering at two scenarios; one is now, one is later.
Roy Halladay is the hottest name in the baseball world right now, not only because he is available, but also because his willingness to play for a contender makes him an ideal match for this club. Halladay fits the “now” because of his lengthy positive track record and his position as perhaps the best pitcher in baseball. You can win now with Roy Halladay.
J.A. Happ, Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and others represent the “later.” Besides Happ, none of these players can help toward back-to-back titles. Drabek was on display at the MLB Futures Game in St. Louis yesterday, and he did not disappoint. One baseball official told Todd Zolecki of MLB.com that Drabek was “the best pitcher he watched” in the talent show. Taylor has been spectacular, exhilarating the organization with his five tools. Realistically, many of these players are a few years away from producing.
If Halladay is indeed available for a price that is manageable, the Phillies can mortgage part of the future and pray to the baseball gods that they get another championship in the next year and a half. If they do not win, Halladay will hit the open market, most likely, and that window will be closed. On top of that, they will have lost four or five prime pieces that could have made their mark in Philly down the road.
If the Phillies decide to stand pat, keeping a firm hand on their prized farm system, then they must go with what they have. Let’s not forget, the Phils won it all with a team comprised with many of the same parts they have this year. Again, though, they must pray to the Gods that a championship or two is won a few years down the line. At the same time, they certainly believe this squad is more than capable of winning.
The baseball purist in me wants to see the Phillies hold on to the kids. The part of me that searches for quick production wants Doc. Neither choice is right or wrong, but the outcome could decide how the 2009 Phillies fare.
Halladay coming to Philadelphia may very well be a pipe dream. The more likely decision will be to keep the minor leagues intact and concentrate on preserving a team that can win. It will also save a franchise known to be frugal a boatload of money. A source close to Randy Miller of the Bucks County Courier Times said that the Phillies are weary of adding more money to an already distended payroll. Halladay would cost the Phillies somewhere in the $5 million range for this season and $15.75 million next year.
My pick: If the trade does not involve Happ or Drabek and if the Blue Jays list is not six or seven players deep, then a deal should be made. It’s advantageous to keep young pitching that is under control for several years. The Phillies obviously realize this, which is one of the reasons why Drabek has been put on the untouchable list.
You can’t throw everything at the wolves. You need to hold on to some of that “potential.” Can that be achieved? Soon enough, we will find out.
UPDATE (2:12 pm): According to MLB.com, the Toronto Blue Jays will not allow potential suitors interested in Roy Halladay work out a contract extension before a trade is done.
Posts: 0 Griffin
The Phillies should trade Omar Daal, Travis Lee, Vicente Padilla and Nelson Figueroa in order to get that elusive 2nd ace in the rotation.
Posted: 09:38 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 1313 Pat Gallen
God, I would do that in a heartbeat.
Posted: 09:45 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brett
Halladay may just have been making a good PR move, but according to John Smallwood, when asked about a trade to Philly, Halladay said he’d have to pass on it. I understand that of course, he can’t say, “Absolutely, let’s gittur done,” but from what I’ve read, he didn’t seem interested. Are we deluding ourselves in thinking that Halladay would like to come here? World Series aside, Philadelphia still has a bad reputation, and our “hitter’s park” doesn’t help us.
Initially I was completely ready to go all in on Halladay, but the more I see what it would cost, the less appealing it gets. I’d rather have a team contending for a decade than a team that burns out as soon as our current core begins to age.
Posted: 09:56 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Havoc
If we don’t get Halladay then we’ve got to hope we catch Lightning in a bottle with Martinez, Carrassco, Drabek, or Kendrick. We’ll also need to hope that Happ and Blanton continue to be consistent and that Hamels gets back to form. There’s a whole lot of if’s in that rotation…
Posted: 10:00 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Great article, Pat.
My pick is: prospects.
Posted: 10:01 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Keith
I agree w/ Brett, lets not throw the “system” to get 1 guy for sake of a repeat. Keep those young arms and bring them up when ready, to create a DYNASTY. Lets focus on another not so big $$$ pitcher, what happen to Cliff Lee, or Bedard. Bedard might be had for far less and is risky but may give the hopes of repeat w/o selling the system for him. I want to see our young arms and HAPP stay Phillies.
Posted: 10:03 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brett
I can even see Zach Duke being an option. He’d be a 15-20 win pitcher on a good team. Not a #1 or #2, but definitely a guy who can win games on his pitching and not need a ton of run support.
Come to think of it, he resembles Happ in a lot of ways.
Posted: 10:09 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brooks
Every time I think about ‘dumping the house’ in order to get 1 key playmaker in return, my thoughts go back to the Vikings/Cowboys deal in 1992 which put the Dallas Cowboys on the map for the next few decades and buried Minnesota who was counting on Herchel Walker to lead them to the promised land which of course never happened for the Vikes.
Giving up a few prospects would not be bad, I know the Jays are in desperate need of a Catcher (wouldn’t you be if Rod Barajas was your starting catcher?) and everyone could use depth at pitching – just leave say, Carpenter, Happ alone – perhaps Carrasco and some others could be considered. Donald might also be considered, the starter for the Jays is Scutaro (about a Jimmy Rollins sized fella, without the speed and not as good with the glove). So, Marson, Carrasco, Donald – for Doc Holliday – if the deal does not go through, it is NOT the end of the world and something else will show up.
This kind of deal I could live with. Not the kitchen sink, not Taylor, not more in depth with pitching –
We don’t really want to be the team responsible for building another teams dynasty…
Posted: 10:10 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Eb
Bedard is always hurt.
Drabek has great potential but so did Duckworth and Floyd…If we can keep him great but I say get Halladay, start with Brown and Knapp in the deal, then include Donald and go from there.
Drabek Could be a HOF pitcher, Halladay is a HOF pitcher
Posted: 10:12 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brett
That’s what I’m saying. Keep Taylor, keep Drabek. A Marson, CC, Donald package would be a good move. No need to empty out a burgeoning farm system for one guy who doesn’t guarantee a championship.
Posted: 10:15 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 130 Amanda Orr
Great article.
I’m with you when you said part of me wants Halladay, the other wants to hold onto the prospects.
I think for Halladay giving up a couple of the top prospects would be worth it, but I’d prefer to make a deal if it did not involve Happ/Drabek.
Posted: 10:19 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
“Drabek Could be a HOF pitcher, Halladay is a HOF pitcher”
Amen to that, Eb.
Posted: 10:25 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brooks
Bedard – Having been a long time Orioles fan, I was hoping for the best with Bedard, he showed promise earlier in his career and you could almost look past 04 & 05, since he won 15 games for a bad oriole team in 06, got hurt again in 07 and of course played hurt and missed a bunch of starts in 08 & 09 – in 6 full seasons of being a starter, only 1 season has he started more than 30 games. And, the phrase “innings eater” – can not apply. Even in the year where he started 33 games, he totaled 196 innings (his personal best).
Now that he is pitching healthy again, he is perhaps just a little bit better than average – at best. Would he be a nice addition? I think so but not worth the price of a potential number 1 starter.
As I told my buddy who lives in Seattle and is now a Mariners fan, it looks like this is all your gonna get with Bedard and not much more.
Posted: 10:30 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
“Let’s not forget, the Phils won it all with a team comprised with many of the same parts they have this year. ”
Except for one glaring difference… well, maybe two… First, we had a #2 starter and second, Hamels was on top of his game… Myers was 7-4 after the all star break with a 3.03 ERA. He was also 2-1 in the postseason. Forget about Hamels’ struggles and lets hope that he turns it around. Most people would agree that we can’t win a 4 game playoff series without a #2… if not Halladay, then who? If we go out and get a Zach Duke, how much less are we actually paying? At what point do you say, “It’s worth the extra prospects for Doc.”?
Listening to Roy last night, I’m pretty sure that he has one foot out the door… I think that a deal is imminent.
Posted: 10:32 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Eb and Griffin: That’s way too simplistic. The other side of the coin is that Drabek could pitch for the Phillies for MANY YEARS, for CHEAP… maybe as an ACE…. Halladay for 1.5 years.
Seriously, with Halladay you better go and win the World Series in 2009 and 2010… cause guess what? In 2011, he’ll leave and we’ll have no one to replace him because we gave up Happ, Drabek, etc. In essence, you are shortening (but intensifying at the same time) the window to win. On the other hand, if you keep these stud prospects, you are extending your window to win more champsionships down the road. I rather be contenders every year for the next 8 years, than the national media’s favorite to win it all just this year.
Posted: 10:35 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brett
I agree, Manny. Having young, cheap players will free up the money years from now to hold on to players like Utley and Hamels into their free agent years, and to plug holes with free agents years from now. Strong farm systems end up being strong major league teams. Let’s stick to what we’ve been doing.
Pat Gillick won a bunch of championships as a GM because he made small moves that turned out to be big. We don’t want to go all in on one pitcher like last year’s Brewers then come up short in the NLDS.
Posted: 10:41 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Steve-o
Pat, this is probably the best article I’ve read on this site since Tim stopped writing. Great job.
Posted: 10:42 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Im sick of hearing all of you people say “well youre CANT get Roy Halladay without giving up Drabek, Happ, Taylor, etc.’
Ok, you know what? If youre right about that, then I DONT WANT ROY HALLADAY. Period.
If we give up the house for this guy, I will guarantee you with 100% assurances that we will NOT win the World Series. These trades (NOT trades for good or great players, but trades where you give up too much for great players thus selling your future) ALWAYS BACKFIRE. I actually cant think of a trade for a great player in almost any sport off the top of my head where a team has TOTALLY gone all in and sold their entire future for one guy – that HASNT backfired.
Its fairly obvious that selling it all for ONE FREAKING GUY to win now is a completely horrible and retarded idea.
You build from within and plug the gapws, thats what gets you good enough to be in contention. Then you fill the holes with trades (Blanton, Stairs, Eyre, etc). YES, they sitll need to trade for a GOOD starting pitcher, and if the price for the great ones isnt too steep then you go grab one. Yes, you will have to give up good prospects. But giving up all of your best ones for any player is just not wise.
The Phillies will NOT trade Drabek. They will NOT trade Happ. GET IT OUT OF YOUR HEADS. THey have repeatedly said they are not going to be traded. So just stop it ok? This is really aggravating now.
Posted: 10:45 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed 2
Im pretty sure marson, donald, and carrasco are considered our B-level prospects with taylor, brown, and drabek our A-level. This deal will either need 1 A-level and all three B-level, or 2 A-level and some change. Not sure where you would place Happ. We are not getting the best pitcher in baseball for anything less than our best.
I still don’t know how the Mets got away with doing that.
Posted: 10:45 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Bay Slugga
Money won’t be an issue when it comes to getting Halladay. Check out where the Phillies rank in attendance at the site.
Posted: 10:45 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Im NOT saying that if they get Halladay they wont win the WS. I AM saying that its a lock that if they give up too much, the farm, sell their soul, etc.. for any player, including halladay, they will NOT win teh WS.
That always fails in sports. Always.
Posted: 10:49 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ed 2
Call me selfish, but i like the idea of having a team to cheer for over the next decade. I remember what it was like being a perenial doormat while the braves were always in the playoffs, and I don’t want to feel that way again. I hope we all did not forget what it was like before Chase and Ryan got here. Having a good farm system is the way to ensure a lack of phutility in the phuture.
Posted: 11:01 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ari
prospects pan out so infrequently and are always so overrated it’s not even funny. What useful playing time did the Phils get out of the Abreu trade? The Schilling trade? None. Same here – send some overhyped prospects with “potential” to one day become an ace, for a man who is guaranteed to be an ace. What’s to think about?
Posted: 11:03 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
No one is saying give up Drabek & Taylor & Brown & Knapp & insert hottest farm name of the week… If Halladay comes here and pitches 1.5 years, we’ll probably have to give up four prospects (two, at most, that would actually end up playing here)… let’s say that he leaves in 1.5 years as a TYPE A free agent… we get four draft picks as compensation. Alternatively, we trade Halladay next year and get 4 prospects from someone else vying for a title. Replace cheap prospects with other cheap prospects… rinse and repeat. Myers’ $12 million and Thome’s money is off the books after this year… Halladay’s $15 fits right in. Listen, if it costs Drabek/Taylor, I agree that we have to back away but don’t assume that’s the cost. Toronto is effectively dumping salary… there aren’t many suitors lining up throwing out their top prospects… we might be able to get him for package of players not named Drabek/Brown/Taylor.
Posted: 11:06 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ari
Lesse – Drabek has a CHANCE to be ace, and a far greater chance of being a bust or a mediocre pitcher. Halladay is a 100% guaranteed ace. This is a no brainer.
Posted: 11:09 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
The Phillies didnt get anything out of those trades because they were SALARY DUMPS. And ebcause Ed Wade was horrible at making trades.
Posted: 11:14 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 bretts
Everyone says that they want to be contenders for 10 years. Thats great and eveything but it remindes me of the atlanta braves winning 15 NL easts in a row or whatever number and winning the world series once. I think that is just stupid. I went to college in South Carolina and that is all those people would talk about, we have been in the playoffs for 15 years…Who cares winning the world series is what i want to do every year not just be a contender or the Alt Braves in the 90′s. Do whatever it takes to win now. The only person i would not give up is Drabek. But Carrosco, Taylor, Brown, Marson, Donald i would not mind giving up any of them. That is just my opinion. Also i am a business owner and i do believe the higher the risk the higher reward. Get Halladay. If everthing goes well who says that we dont win 3 WFS in a row, anything is possible..
Posted: 11:24 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ron In
I didn’t hear anything about any negative pr on the part of roy, infact; I was listening to 950am and he said he wouldn’t mind coming to philly. Earlier today, sportscenter had a quote from roy saying how he wanted to play in the national league, he would rather hit than face the yanks line-up. If everybody knows we’re the only squad with the cards to get him delt; this could all be leading up to getting Pedro, Doc, and keeping haap. Which would leave our rotation to potentially be: Cole, Doc, Joe, (any order of)Pedro, maybe Jamie, Antonio, & Happ. If we only lose two or three prospects, that leaves us with pending contracts and renegotiations, a staff that’s more than well equipped to win this year and next with the same basic line-up that got hot in august last year and took the playoffs losing only what 3 games overall? Come on now, I love the long term as well, but in free agency I would rather take as many chips as I can get.
Who knows, if we win the year Roy comes, he might even restructure to stay with us for a while; might not even charge a lot. Make the team happy before they start groaning. Hell we’re 4 games up and and 6.5 on the team we really hate. Let’s pull the trigger, and shoot for demolishing our division
Posted: 11:34 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brian
“That’s what I’m saying. Keep Taylor, keep Drabek. A Marson, CC, Donald package would be a good move.”
There’s no way you’re getting one of the top-3 pitchers in baseball w/o giving up an A-Level prospect (Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown). You’re trying to trade 3 prospects who are having bad years (although Marson has bounced back some).
Now if you gave up 1 of Drabek/Taylor/Brown + Donald + Marson + 1 of Carasco/Bastardo/Savery I think that would at least be a legit offer. If I was Toronto though, i’d want at least two of those A-Level guys (rumor is they want 3).
Posted: 11:35 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Gavin
At this point, I am against the trade if it involves our top pitchers such as Happ/Drabek/Carrasco. (Which we know is what would happen). Position players can be accumlated alot easier, so I’m not that worked up over Taylor or Brown.
I will say this, I think its important for RAJ to either work a deal…..if there is no deal to be had, he needs to come out publicly and announce that it is dead and move on. I can imagine the mental impact on the team as Aug 1st arrives and all RAJ has to show for it is Pedro and his little miniature buddy. Not good.
Who else….that can legitimatly help us is out there? Bedard is terrible, Washburn is a poor mans Randy Wolf, Doug Davis is average on a good day.
Haren, Duke, Maholm, Meche…..I dont see alot of options out there.
Posted: 11:36 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Bruce
I sense a change of tone and thinking here regarding Halliday. Second thoughts replacing the intial enthusiasm the past week or two. I’m glad to see good reasoning and judgment prevailing. As Amaro indicated, the team has payroll limitations and have no intention to sell the farm for a 1.5 year rental pitcher.
The front office apparently will add a new pitcher that is a future HOF candidate. :-)
News item; “Pedro Martinez could sign with the Philadelphia Phillies as early as Wednesday if the three-time Cy Young winner passes his physical examination, the Philadelphia Daily News reported Monday.
At two workouts last week in the Dominican Republic, Martinez impressed the Phillies enough to begin negotiations with the 37-year-old Martinez, who was 5-6 with a 5.61 ERA in 20 starts for the Mets last season but was impressive in the World Baseball Classic last March.
A good move that is cheap with no loss of prospects.
Posted: 11:38 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Maverick
Its simple.
If the Phillies currently had Halladay on the roster would they trade him for prospects? No f**ing way. Amaro would be run out of town..
So then why do people think this is even a decision? Clearly we don’t want to give up Happ or Drabek b/c the Phils need pitching now and in the future.
however…bats… phils are stacked for the next 3-5+ years.
Donald, Brown, Taylor, see ya… Marson or Arnaud… take your pic.. . Toronto wants a top tier pitching prospect…send them Corrasco.
For those who argue….what about 2014…what then??
I say… if the Phils need young talent they will have plenty of highpaid veterans to trade for a slew of young prospects if thats what they need then.
Posted: 11:40 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ron In
I also feel, that if we let this shit stall; another team, in the NL will pull the trigger, because they want to win. I praise Reub for all he’s done with our young talent, as well as how he’s managed to keep four seperate superstars happy, with contracts, but I really would like to see his scouting expertise after he grabs roy from out of toronto.
More Chips bring more money to our market
Posted: 11:43 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Brett
Brian-
“That’s what I’m saying. Keep Taylor, keep Drabek. A Marson, CC, Donald package would be a good move.”
That was said in reference to Brooks post right before it. I think as he trade deadline approaches, Ricciardi’s asking price for Halladay may drop. At that point, a salary dump in exchange for Marson and Donald, who were A List prospects this time last year, and would fill up holes in the Jays organization, might not be that unlikely.
Posted: 11:48 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 1313 Pat Gallen
I agree with Brett. I think Ricciardi is trying to jack up the price and get someone to bite. It’s clearly not working. He’s under the gun to shed salary and even though there might be a Canadian revolt if he loses Halladay, he may have no choice.
Vernon Wells is owed a ton of money over the next 25 years it seems, so that doesnt help. The asking price may drop by the end of the month, but there is still a sense of another team jumping in. Such a tough call.
Posted: 11:57 AM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Ruffin
After what many would consider kind of a sub-par first half, the Phils are ten games above .500 and in first place by four games. I’m all for improving the team, but can someone explain why we need to mortgage the future when we’re already in first in a weak division? Why can’t we get a solid middle of the line starter like Blanton to shore up the rotation? Halladay would be most valuable in the playoffs, but how do we know he’d perform well in the spotlight (see CC Sabathia)? What if he gets injured? Is it so critical to nab Halladay and give away our future when we already stand an excellent chance of getting back to the WS? Why do we need Halladay so badly?
Posted: 12:00 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Chris M
Wish people would stop commenting on this “article”. Call it what it is – a post – on a blog site.
Posted: 12:03 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Toronto seem to be trying to take advantage of how deep the Phillies prospect pool is, we know for them the priority is trying to move Wells and/ or Rios because they don’t want to deal Halladay, they’ll hold on to him for as long a possible trying to create enough salary relief to keep him north of the border.
It would be quite a shock to see him dealt before the off-season and players like Donald and Carrasco have to be a strong part of fleshing out a deal. I agree to an extent with those who say no prospect is untouchable but I don’t think Amaro’s going to let Riccardi take him to the cleaners cherry-picking out of the minor league system without restraint.
When Halladay truly is available and Riccardi is ready to make a practical deal there’s a very strong chance he will be headed here, that times most likely not right now.
Posted: 12:03 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Jeff
I dont know if we can win with the pitching we have. I dont want to trade away the farm. I want to see Drabek come up. Pedro is a low risk. I dont think Moyer is the answer. Maybe a trade for a Duke, or Bedard. Halliday is nice but not worth all that you have to give. I know the guys on 610 say give away everyone for him but I dont agree. I like Happ and he is cheap.
Posted: 12:22 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck P
MLB TR is reporting that the BJ’s want a SS prospect… they specifically mentioned the Tigers putting together a package around Brent Dlugach, Cale Iorg and Danny Worth… Donald is better than all of those guys. Donald, Marson, Carrasco, Knapp…
Posted: 12:26 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Drabek OR Happ would have to go in any deal for Halladay..
The Jays don’t NEED to trade him, so they have to make it worth their while.
It would help the Phillies greatly if we added Roy Phucking Halladay to our staff… and between Happ and Drabek.. I’d be more willing to give up Drabek, who might be better than every pitcher in history.. but with Happ we already know what he can do, and he can be a solid top-to-middle rotation pitcher for years to come.. and his maturity and mound presence puts COLD Hamels to shame.
I would be fine with us passing on Halladay (he would likely cost 5 prospects, not 6-7).. but those prospects would include 3 TOP players, a middle, and a low:
So expect Drabek, Jason Donald, Dominc Brown, and two others..
Or since they were interested in Lou Marson.. we could offer:
Jason Donald, Dominic Brown, Lou Marson, Carlos Carrasco.. and a low-level prospect ..
Keeping Happ, Drabek, Taylor and Knapp in the system.. I would make either of those moves in a heartbeat
Posted: 12:27 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Mazinman
Halladay vs. Prospects is not that simple. That depends completely on the prospects we are giving up as part of the deal. I have said before I would love to see Halladay be in Philadelphia and I stand by that stance. Getting him makes us easy favorites for not only this year but next. If its the likes of Donald, Carrasco, and Bastardo being traded then by all means do so. When the likes of Happ and Drabek enter the picture then one needs to stand back and really think about it. Still, Halladay is so good you need to consider it.
I think we all need to remember that the Phillies, Jays, and Halladay are all angling for a better deal right now. When the Phillies speak of untradables they are trying to raise the price on those prospects so they have to give up less of them. When the Jays backtrack on trading Halladay they are trying to increase the price a team will have to pay for him and hoping desperately that another team will jump in seriously and start a bidding war. Finally when Halladay says he might not come to Philly he is saying “give me an extension.”
Right now I believe that the Jays are waiting to see if the Angels, Dodgers, or Brewers are willing to jump into the picture and start a bidding war. Others keep mentioning Boston but I just don’t see that happening. It would go counter to the Jays’ interest in building to compete to give him to the Red Soxs.
Posted: 12:29 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Again, where are you getting that it HAS to be Drabek or Happ from? The Phillies have said they arent getting traded. They werent blowing smoke. Manuel almost had a heart attack when he heard Drabeks name mentioned. It seems that theyd LIKELY want one of those. But if they are demanding that you can rest assured that there will be no deal for this. The Phillies arent desperate. They arent that stupid either. So dont act like theyre going to get desperate and give it all up. Thats what the Jays are hoping for, and no other GM is buying their posturing.
Posted: 12:35 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Jeff
Chris Coste was on 610am this morning. What a great guy. He was so upset to be leaving Philly. He was happy they let him go to another team instead of the minors. He said he thought he was horrible at pinch hitting but a better hitter when starting. He also said he thought he was a good defensive catcher. He just wanted to start 2 times a week. They asked him what was wrong with Cole. He said his change up his fine. His fastball velocity is down and he is not locating it. He said when Cole gets a 0-2 count he cant put the hitter away. Then he ends up throwing a 90 fastball down the plate. Just like Lidge he said. They are not swinging at Lidges slider anymore. Waiting for the Fastball. Coste was a great interview and I can hear the dissapointment in his voice.
Posted: 12:37 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
In the end Halladay will end up a Yankee, IMO. Damon and Matsui are FA’s which frees up $26 million. Nady is as well. They’ll be able to absorb the Wells contract. The Jays have to be thinking that if they don’t deal Halladay at the deadline he’s going to end up a Yankee anyway. This gives the phils some leverage, IMO.
Phils aren’t going to part with Drabek or Happ. So it’s in the Jays court, but here’s what I’d offer with those two chips off the table.
Brown(#17), Carassco, Donald and Carpenter or kendrick of Savory. I don’t think the Jays do that so I add a big chip that’s far off in Knapp(37). If I add the Happ chip I probably remove Savory as the 4th guy. A heck of a lot to give, but keeping Drabek and Happ allows the Phils to keep the staff’s cost down. This works for me, extension or no extension with Halladay because in 2011 you still have Hamels, Drabek, Blantan, Happ and FA.
Posted: 12:39 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 beta sigma shag
I am getting tired of people saying we do not have a#2 starter, How can you not take Happ as a #2 right now, the guy has not lost a game, he pitches out of trouble well, never gets flustered over bad calls, perfomed well out of the pen in last years playoffs, what do you want from a #2 guy, pitches 7 plus almost every start and has a sub 3 ERA right. So there is #2 guy, plus if Blanton keeps it up, there is your #3 guy.
Now on Halladay, I would trade Drabek, and two or three others not named Happ. Donald, Marson are probably not going to play for the Philles, they are blocked for too many years here, and then Taylor or Brown, or Carrasco. That would still keep some real good arms in the minors. But I do not think it is a move you have to make. Duke could probably be gotten on the cheap for B prospects, or some others back end starter like we got Blanton last year.
Posted: 12:39 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
the guys on 610wip are clowns… they were all 76ers fans when they were good.. and Eagles fans when they were good.. and Flyers fans when they are good.. and now they pretend like the know anything about baseball
you can only make the ANY deal if it seems fair to both sides..
allowing us to add Roy Halladay while still keeping SOME of our top prospects means that we still have a farm system.. I want to hear what names they are insterested in, because last I read.. Happ, Donald, and Marson were the 3 names the Blue Jays liked..
Posted: 12:41 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Don would you trade
Carrasco, Donald, Marson, Knapp and one of Kendrick/Carpenter/Savory for Halladay?
Posted: 12:45 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Don would you trade
Carrasco, Donald, Marson, Knapp and one of Kendrick/Carpenter/Savory for Halladay? I substituted Marson for Brown(I think the Jays would prefer Brown, IMO)
Posted: 12:46 PM on July 14, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
psujoe ..I would make that trade in one heartbeat
But I dont think the Blue Jays would do that.. I honestly think that a requirement for this trade, from the Blue Jays standpoint is:
JA Happ -or- Kyle Drabek
AND
Michael Taylor -or- Dominic Brown
I personally don’t think the Blue Jays will trade arguably the best pitcher in baseball.. for less than a few of our TOP Prospects.. keeping in mind that Carrasco, Donald, and Marson are no longer considered TOP PROSPECTS
they are the A/B-type guys … while Drabek, Taylor, Brown, and Knapp are the clear cut A-type prospects
Posted: 12:51 PM on July 14, 2009