Phillies Nation

With Beltran out it should go to Victorino as he is a center fielder. I think what happened last year with Fukidomi who owes his all star appearance to the japanese more than the cubbies faithful might happen again this year but with Sandoval who in addition to Giants fans will collect votes from all of Venezuela (probably under fear of late night visitations by Chavez’s secret police). Eventhough Sandoval deserves the nod, Shane’s #1 ZR rating makes him the more complete player. Remember the All-Star game we lost in the late innings with Chubby Caberara defending 3rd while Scott Rolen, arguably one of the best fielding 3rd basemen of his day sat on the bench watching a ground ball he would have kept in he infield.

Reed, this was an article about Shane but was changed about 20 minutes after it was put up.

I think the injury to Lopez causes the Phillies to want to hold onto Happ. And I agree. As of right now, the Phillies do not have a number 5 starter. Lopez has looked good in two starts. But so did Bastardo. But I do not see much sense in trading one starter for another starter while you are still short a starter. I am not saying that Happ is as good as Halladay, but I don’t see the point in adding an ace while putting a AAA pitcher in your lineup.

The only two people I consider untouchable are Drabek and Happ. Other than that, make it happen. We are so accustomed to losing and having bad things happen to us that we don’t realize that the Philadelphia Phillies have the chance to repeat as World Series champions and be able to make a run for 2 or 3 more years if this trade happens. Don’t want to make the same mistake of not trading for Randy Johnson because you want to hold onto Tyler Green.

from what i’ve seen i like lopez pitching. and although bastardo did look good at first, the main problem was that he only threw fastballs and became too predictable. lopez mixes his pitches plus has experience which is also another postive. hopefully, his injury isn’t too serious because he seems like he can pitch pretty well.

I think Bastardo’s future is in the bullpen where he can get away with throwing a fastball the majority of the time.

To get Halladay, I think it will cost Drabek, either Brown or Taylor, Donald and another prospect (Marson?). I’d pull the trigger on that deal and go for it before Howard, hamels and co. leave via free agency.

Well since the Jays want a SS and a catcher you can assume that Donald and Marson are going in this deal. I want Halladay but if we give up Happ we’ve patched a hole by making a new one. The Jays aren’t exactyly hurting for pitching prospects to bring up I think you can get this deal done without Happ, and if it costs Happ I’d take a run at Doug Davis who we can get for a lot less.

My offer for Halladay would be

1. Brown
2. Donald
3. Marson
4. Savery or Carrassco
5. one of Kendrick/Bastardo/Carpenter

If it takes sending Savery & Carrassco instead of the kendrick/bastardo/carpenter deal I’d do that too. Hell for Halladay i’d make Knapp available. Happ though is way too important to our rotation.

Untouchable Phillies: Kyle Drabek, Dominic Brown, Jason Knapp

meaing that available guys are..

Carrasco, Donald, Taylor, Marson, Bastardo, Savery.. and maybe even Happ

if we could make the Halladay deal, keeping one of our OF guys and both Happ and Drabek.. I would do that in a heartbeat

If we’re slapping all these untouchable labels on guys, then I can’t really see this deal materializing for us. Period.

If it doesnt happen then its doesnt mean our season is over. Im TOTALLY fine with not gettting Halladay if theyre asking for too much. Maybe you can get Haren for a little less and that works, maybe someone else.

But teh mistake the Flyers make and the mistake that the Phillies used to make was you cant trade away guys you identify as your future core for veteran players now. The Flyers needed Pronger but this is a tad different.

In baseball there are seeveral times more prospects. But you HAVE to pickl 3,4,5 guys and say NO, these guys arent going anywhere. Theyre part of our future no matter what or for what player.

I think it’s going to be quite straightforward. If the Jays are dismantling then the Jays will really like the key points in the Phils offer and a deal will likely get done and reasonably quickly, or this could be reminiscent of the Santana and Peavy situations where negotiations drag on, labour and inevitably stall.

At this point its impossible to know who’s being discussed though I’d speculate the possible deal won’t be as hard to stomach as we might expect. It’s all going to come down to how available he really is and that’s something we just don’t know right now.

Geoff you’ve made some good points in the Halladay discussions… Where have the pie in sky ideas gone?? Do think your placing Haren’s value on the low side, his contract situation alone on D-Backs in that division alone would make him a harder target than Halladay with one foot out the door.

Yeha. But the Phillies have the ammo to get Haren I think. They have the ammo to get Halladay too it just depends on which guys they value more than Toronto does.

Instead of having a no-trade list with five names on it, I think it makes more sense to put the highest upside guys in pairs, and say something like: we’d do Taylor or Brown, but not both. Or we’d do Happ or Drabek, but not both. And if Toronto gets one of the guys from either of these two groups, then that’s it from the top tier. So a deal would be one of Happ/Drabek/Taylor/Brown (or whoever you think the top tier is), plus, say, Carrasco/Bastardo, Marson, Donald. That’s a lot to give up, but that’s what I suspect it will take. And it’s worth it.

I think Amaro’s playing it smart here, he’s making sure he isn’t metaphorically walking into the negotiating room with a sign on his back saying ‘screw me’ over a guy who might not be as available as we’d like to think.

If the Jays want to make a deal now and not deal him inside the division then the Jays have to lower their expectation to what the Phils, Cards, Brewers will offer because unless they can coax Texas into the bidding war the Phils are in prime position when the bidding gets serious.

Personally I see the Jays backing down off the ledge and not entering into serious trade negotiations until the off-season.

Geoff,I agree….can’t trade Happ. That would just be totally stupid . If we had healthy Brett Myers coming back in August then maybe (and I mean maybe) Happ is a consideration. But he is probably the most consistent starter right now and to get rid of him would be suicidal. Fortunately, Lopez has stepped up and given us 2 pretty good outings (I don’t think the shoulder stiffness is anything to really worry about) and Moyer has righted his ship. And Cole will consistenly get better too. My point is that we don’t have to do anything stupid here just to get Halladay.

we still have not seen bastardo’s changeup used to its full potential while he was in the majors. he has a subpar slider, i’ll agree to that, but the few times bastardo used his changeup it generally looked very good. don’t count him out as a starter yet.

One thing to remember guys, if a deal happens it’s not Hamels then Halladay… It’s Halladay then Hamels and it wouldn’t be Hamels starting opening day.

Buster Olney via MLB Trade Rumors –

Any team with serious plans to acquire Roy Halladay cannot approach the Blue Jays with a list of untouchable players, as ESPN.com’s Buster Olney points out. Here are the details:

* If the Phillies want Halladay, they’ll have to be prepared to discuss players like Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown, Kyle Drabek and Jason Knapp.

I’d still let Hamels pitch first in the playoffs, NJ.

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Chuck: You gotta think two years from now too… and how our rotation will look then. Hamels, an expensive Blanton???, Carrasco???, Drabek???, and some washed up veteran?? Think about it. Giving up Happ today not only opens a big hole in our 2009 rotation, but an even bigger hole in the years to come.

JA Happ, Jason Donald, Dominic Brown, and Jason Knapp..

I’d do that today… we keep Carrasco, Marson, Taylor, and Drabek..

whatever happens we need to have SOMETHING left after this deal.. and if they dont want to do business.. we’ll go after Erik Bedard instead, for less

And I also like how Amaro has repetitively said some of the prospects are untouchables. Boosts our bargaining power. Suddenly, every good prospect on our team becomes more valued and wanted. Now you could get away with just dealing 1 or 2 of the top-top guys, instead of 3 or 4.

And if Halladay doesn’t work, try someone else like Haren or Bedard. Our rotation will be solid either way. No need to punish ourselves to watch poor Phillies baseball in the next few years.

Bottomline, our pitching RIGHT NOW going into the All-star break is really good. There shouldn’t be any rush. We want a solid guy for the playoffs, more than for July and August. Take your time, Ruben.

Just voted something like 200 times…..keep it up guys!!

Vote Bran Torino!!!!

If Adam Lind doesn’t make the All-Star team.. its a joke

Halladay shouldn’t take less than $100 M over 4 years.. he’s a horse

If i’m the Blue Jays.. I don’t trade the best pitcher in baseball right now for psujoe’s offer of Carrasco, Donald, Marson, Brown/Taylor

I make sure that I get at least Happ or Drabek to go along with at least one of Brown/Taylor

I don’t see the D’backs trading Haren just because they aren’t winning this season.. I think Bedard is definitely going to be traded though.

Anyone hear anything about Cliff Lee? Im guessing Indians keep him since he’s not too expensive next season