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Other Trade Options for Halladay

Posted by Amanda Orr, Mon, July 20, 2009 03:00 PM | Comments: 86
Posts, Raising Questions

Left and right, fans are making fantasy trade proposals for Blue Jays’ ace, Roy Halladay.  Who to give up, who to keep, are the popular questions.  We hear about digging deep into the farm system trading away some of the most promising talent.  Popular names include Kyle Drabek, Michael Taylor, and J.A Happ.  The fact is, nobody wants to get rid of these rising young stars, but in order to get Halladay, at least one of them has to be packaged.

Halladay has been one of the best, if not the best, pitchers in baseball.  No matter the cost, getting Halladay would be worth it.  Nobody can predict the future, but there may be a Cy Young in Drabek’s future, or a MVP award in Taylor’s.

The Phillies will scrutinize all options, which may be at the Major League level.  Happ, yes, but the Phillies would prefer to keep him.  Right now, Happ is the ace of the staff.  Will he face a sophomore slump?  Time will tell.  Happ may not be an ace down the road, but could find himself as the number two or three starter.  Having a middle of the rotation guy like Happ is important.  There is other Major League talent that could be explored.  Not many people have mentioned him, nor thought about trading him.  How about Shane Victorino?

Nobody wants to see Victorino go, but he is a trade alternative.  The Blue Jays would like to dump outfielder Vernon Wells and put him in a trade with Halladay.  With the move, Jayson Werth could move to centerfield, and Wells in right.  Wells is batting .263 with nine home runs, however a change of scenery may do him good.  Citizens Bank Park would be a nice fit for Wells, who has hit for power in the past.  Or the Phillies could do the same deal, only Werth instead of Victorino.

The deal would mean that at least one top prospect would stay, meaning Drabek or Taylor.  The Phillies would get the best pitcher in baseball, plus hold on to a potential Cy Young or MVP winner.  One prospect that will not stay is Jason Donald.  The Blue Jays want a shortstop, and the Jays scouted him in the past, liking what they saw.

I am not saying the Phillies should make this deal.  I am simply exploring all trade possibilities and this is something to consider. Would you be willing to trade Victorino/Werth for Halladay?

Avatar of Amanda Orr

About Amanda Orr

Amanda Orr has written 713 articles on Phillies Nation.

Amanda has been writing for Phillies Nation since 2009.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Amanda – If we took Wells in a deal for Halladay it would look something like this: Me, you, and a bucket of warm Coronas for Halladay and Wells. Thats how bad they wanna get rid of Wells.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 JeffS

    Look at Wells’ contract. Taking that thing on should get you Halladay for free. Only the NY teams and the Red Sox could afford to bid on that. Few bidders, cheap price.

     
  • Posts: 0 Havoc

    I’d have to agree with The Dipsy. The wells contract is one of those things that would drag down the Phillies for years. It would limit there ability to not only improve in the offseason but to make midseason trades. If the Jays insist on adding wells let Halladay go to the Yankees.

     
  • Posts: 0 Miles

    Wells’ contract aside, the guy just isn’t producing. I personally don’t even consider anything involving Victorino, but I guess I would consider Werth for Wells. I would just be concerned that we would be making ourselves weaker offensively AND defensively just to improve our pitching, although the improvement would obviously be massive.

    I’m mostly just done talking about this. It’s either gonna happen or it isn’t. We can discuss the merits of the trade if and when it goes down, but is everyone else getting as tired of this discussion as I am?

     
  • Posts: 0 Maverick

    Dipsy… not to mention they would probably throw in a few million dollars in spending cash.

    here’s a question…. lets say the halladay deal doenst happen.. anyone know who else the phils have been looking at?
    last year the Joe Blanton deal seemed to come out of left field….
    maybe this halladay talk is really smoke and mirrors to get someone else on the cheap….

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    We COULD trade Utley and Howard for Halladay too … but come on now..

    Ruben Amaro has already stated that you don’t ADD to your team by SUBTRACTING for your current roster .. the thing that makes the Phillies one of the most dangerous team in baseball is their explosive lineup … so you can’t take your #2, #5 or #6 hitter and trade them because it makes your team weaker.

    Not to mention the defense that these guys play..

     
  • Posts: 130 Amanda Orr

    Avatar of Amanda Orr

    Dipsy, that’s what I’m saying. The Jays want to get rid of Wells, and take him for almost nothin. Put Victorino in for the Halladay trade, we get Wells, plus keep a prospect. I’m not saying they should do this, but its something to think about.

     
  • Posts: 0 mikemike

    The jays are nuts, they want Drabek, taylor or brown, happ, donald and marson or gose, for a rental player, and he can opt out after the season, and toronto said whoever gets him can’t talk to him about a extension until after the trade. screw them.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    A one-word answer to Amanda’s question in her post:

    NO!!

     
  • Posts: 0 SRL

    Personally, I’d rather see Werth go than Victorino. His market value is very high right now since hes having a great season, and an addition like Vernon Wells if the Blue Jays want to include him only makes Werth that more trade-able. Also, I don’t like the idea of having Werth in Center, since hes shown that sometimes he can make RF an adventure. A package of Werth, Carrasco, Kendrick, Brown, and Knapp for Halladay/Wells is do-able IMO because you keep Happ and Drabek. If you don’t plan on keeping Wells, there are two assuming able placements in Michael Taylor (AAA) and Anthony Gose (A), and possibly even Collier.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    –”Also, I don’t like the idea of having Werth in Center, since hes shown that sometimes he can make RF an adventure.”–

    What???!!!???

    How does Jayson Werth make RF an adventure? He’s only made some of the greatest catches of the season….and his arm is a cannon and it is accurate.

     
  • Posts: 0 No Debbie

    this may be a dumb question, but can they package Pedro?

     
  • Posts: 0 Winks Tiddley

    I would want the Jays to eat part of Wells upcoming salary. He is surely not worth all the money he signed for and a change in scenery may be just what the doctor ordered. I would strongly consider Marsden, Kendrick, Donald, Werth and Carrasco if the Jays eat half of Wells’ remaining contract.

     
  • Posts: 0 Aaron

    I dont like the idea of Wells as a Philli. You keep bringing this absurd idea up. Remember people, Halladay would make the Phillies better but we dont necessarily need him. Especially to the extent of giving away an overload of young talent or ANY of our outfielders. The longer time goes by the less talent the Jays will be able to get from any team. It will look a lot like what the Twins got for Johan Santana.

    Stop blogging about Vernon Wells coming to Philly with Halladay. THere is no room for him nor would they downgrade the OF position to get him with Halladay (especially for how much he costs).

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff

    This has to be the dumbest article ever. The phillies first off are not going to trade any of there core players. Why would they create holes. There offense is a machine. Nobody and there mother would take wells on. That contract is stupid. He is declining every year. They just got rid of Thomes stupid contract. If the phillies get Halliday it will be for Drabek, happ and taylor.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Wells would make our team worse. Mojo-killer. Stay away from that guy.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Amanda – lovely Amanda – by the way, what woman can love the Phillies so much as to help run a Phillies blog? You’re either a complete psycho or…..the woman I want to marry. Thats aside, Wells’ contract blocks out the sun. I would take Wells on as a replacement for Victorino or Werth if we got Halladay for a song and the Jays paid 2/3 of Wells’ salary. Of course, that won’t happens. If we’re talking about salary watin, maybe a deal involving Rios would be more realistic. I’m goin to the game tonite. We’re gonna lose. Lilly v. Lopez. Ech. Looks like Chan Ho…..and early.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Jeff…..did you say “Nobody and their mother”. Priceless.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    I meant “salary eating”. Sorry.

    The Dispy

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    You SAY youd want Wells, but trust me, you wouldnt. He eats too many donuts to play CF.

     
  • Posts: 0 JeffR

    I’d also much prefer trading Werth than Victorino if it was an either/or. We need a #2 hitter who gets on base. Werth strikes out too much and isn’t as good a centerfielder. Werth’s production can be pretty much equalized this year with a combination of Dobbs, Stairs, and Mayberry. Maybe next year Taylor is ready. But it makes no sense taking Wells even besides his ridiculous contract. You’d be stuck with him for the next 5 years hindering the development of Taylor and Brown and preventing you from re-signing Victorino. There doesn’t appear to be a good matchup in a straight trade of Werth for a pitcher. The Blue Jays want pitching and prospects, not another outfielder. The closest would be if the Giants were wiling to trade Cain for Werth and something else.

     
  • Posts: 0 David M.

    They’re asking for too much for Holiday! Happ is amazing and why would we want to give up our newfound Ace and about 5 or 6 other good to excellent farm players for one pitcher thats an ace and in the process get rid of an ace and way more. This trade is way too much. Halladay’s contract ends in 10′ and we’d be dishing out way to much money and screwing over our future. I vote for saving the future of Phillies instead of instant gratification with Halladay. So many people are about instant gratification and getting what they want right now and not even thinking about the future. Screw that. No deal on Halladay unless its in our favor and not royally screwing us over in the future.

     
  • Posts: 0 David M.

    Pardon my misspelling of Halladay, not Holiday. my mistake.

     
  • Posts: 0 NJ

    Phils have reportedly scouted Qualls… Boy he’d be a nice rental in the back-end of the bullpen… Wonder if that one will come to be

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I HOPE they land Qualls. Probably a type A too, right? Offer arb, let walk..draft picks! Wonder what that would take?

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    I would like to see what Wells could do in Philadelphia over the next couple of seasons… the guy hit .300 last year with 20 HR in a bad injury-plagued season in Toronto… HOWEVER, I would not like to see what Wells would look like in Philly in 2013-2014. That contract might be the worst contract EVER awarded in MLB history. 7 years 126 million?!? We wouldn’t have to give them Vic or Werth but we would have to clear roster space so it makes sense that either of them would go in a trade that included wells. Let me make this clear, I wouldn’t touch that one with a 10 foot pole… that’s the type of deal that can turn this franchise inside-out. It might sound intriguing but we don’t need to shake things up; if we’re going to go for it, we should be trying to add to thise roster.

     
  • Posts: 0 mick

    Take a deep breath–you win with guys like Victorino and Werth-a deal moving either of these two popular players could rock this boat—these are heart and soul guys who bring more than statistics. As far as Halladay goes-the wrong deal here could also cause problems–i would offer minor league guys only and lots of them. This Phillie team is working in a 2-3 year window and then it will seem old

     
  • Posts: 0 Amanda

    Dipsy.. I’m putting the salary aside. Yes, its a big thing, but the main thing is we 1) get Halladay and 2) keep a Drabek or Taylor. Or lets say the Jays eat some of his contract?

    Again, I am not saying the Phillies should do this. I’m just creating a possibility to make people think.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Qualls would be a fre agent after next season…

     
  • Posts: 0 Tom

    You can’t look at it just from the Phillies’ perspective. You can’t put the salary aside, that’s the entire reason Wells is on the block. If he was only on the books for 4-5 mil. then he wouldn’t be on the block. The Jays will NOT eat his contract. This Halladay deal is not happening without a blue-chipper, be it Taylor, Drabek, or Dominic Brown even. If it’s Taylor, I’m ok with it. If it’s Drabek, I don’t pull the trigger. If it’s Brown, I’m crying with excitement.

     
  • Posts: 0 CZ

    Those who knock Werth’s defense should note that his UZR (Ulitimate Zone Rating) last year in the outfield was 35.3 which ranked him as far and away the best outfielder in all of baseball. Sometimes he does make things look like an ‘adventure’ but that’s just because he is so good at getting to balls most guys wouldn’t reach.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    Amanda – You can’t put the salary aside. Its that ridiculous. Did you happen to read the article on Fri? Check it out. It all about Wells. Think Sam Dalambert. Think Jon Koncak (I’m showing my age). Think about what a snake looks like trying to digest a rat. Love ya, tho.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Qualls would be a Type A right? If so, and the price isnt extreme Id be all over that.

     
  • Posts: 0 Gary B

    The team is obviously fine the way it is right now, trading away Victorino or Werth would only damage the team chemistry these boys have enjoyed for the past couple seasons. Leave it be. Halladay is great but he can’t do everything…

     
  • Posts: 0 joedad

     
  • Posts: 0 Harold

    How far do you guys think we could go with the players we’ve got? I think we’re pretty set to win the division but don’t think we win the NL. Assuming Happ were to stay if we got Halladay I think we win the NL and have a great shot at another title. Maybe for next year too.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    It says Qualls is eligible for arb…interesting.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Doubt that Qualls would probably qualify no higher than a Type B… Type A denotes top 20% at that position over the past two or three seasons (innings pitched, wins, saves, ip/h, k/bb, era). He was 4-8 with 9 saves last year… if he came here, he wouldn’t help himself, either (he would get fewer innings and fewer saves/wins).

     
  • Posts: 0 karen

    I just think we need to be careful in wanting halladay too much and then losing more than we get back. halladay is awesome but at what cost? in a year, will it be worth it? who knows but thats why i am not amaro :)

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck

    It’s amazing to me that people come on here constantly complaining about Jayson Werth as though he’s still fighting for a roster spot. His production at this point in the season puts him in the 30-35 hr range and somewhere between 90-100 rbis. Average is decent at.262 and OBP is .370. He can steal bases. And his fielding…..”adventurous” (GEEZ!!) as it is…… is incredible. Someone said that his production could be equalized by Dobbs, Mayberry, and Stairs. Dobbs is a nice utility guy, spot starter, guy off the bench. Stairs is a LF bat off the bench in the late innings. Period. And Mayberry is overmatched right now and needs to be sent back to Lehigh Valley for more seasoning.

     
  • Posts: 0 karen

    I think if we would be able to get Halladay without losing Happ, I would be okay with that. Halladay could fill in the 5th spot that continues to be open since myers went out. I just cannot imagine trading Happ would be a benefit for the team

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Werth is a beast now. Hes not going anywhere until he walks and gets loads of money as a FA. Mayberry sucks because he doesnt get enough PT to get into a flow.

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Halladay WILL be worth it… he’s the closest thing to a sure thing and the deal is only for a year and a half. That should not be a concern. I would be more concerned with waiting until the offseason and then nabbing a guy like DEREK LOWE for 4 years (like everyone wanted prior to this season). How do you think ATL feels about that now?

    I have been swayed… I don’t think that you can trade young Happ. I don’t think that you can trade Drabek, either. Tell Toronto to circle any four players not named Drabek or Happ and see what happens.

    Would you trade Brown, Taylor, Knapp and Carrasco?

    How about Brown, Taylor, Knapp and Marson/Donald?

    Quallsi is arb eligible after 2010… To be honest, I don’t see why we would want Chad Qualls. Our pen is finally healthy. Add Martinez who could end up being another long reliever and it doesn’t make much sense. If we do add Qualls, does that mean we’re saying adios to Durbin?

     
  • Posts: 0 Chuck P

    Wow… my post at 4:34 was interesting…

    Doubt that Qualls would qualify no higher than…

    that should read I doubt that Qualls will qualify higher than a type B… if that… it’s a stretch. Type A is top 20% and type B is top 40%. There are a lot of relievers, which probably helps but there are a lot of full-time closers. Qualls would be helping himself by staying somewhere he could be a closer.

     
  • Posts: 0 Dave

    Werth sucks! After all, solid defensive corner outfielders who can also play center, who are on pace for 20 sb, 35 HRs, 100 RBIs and who lead the league in pitches taken are just a dime a dozen. Every good team has a couple on the bench.

    Person who said that his production could be equaled by Mayberry, Dobbs and Stairs… AHAHAHAHA! Excuse me, but that’s funny. Those three practically couldn’t buy a spot start before Ibanez went down.

     
  • Posts: 0 MP

    Yeah, Victorino/Werth are going to be traded. Let’s be serious here. The latest names coming through that have supposedly been discussed are Taylor, Carrasco, & Donald for Halladay. Toronto would be right to laugh at that deal. Heyman’s reporting if Drabek is included in the deal that this thing could get done quickly. I know Drabek is supposed to become the second coming of Carlton, but who is going to be playing behind him when he is ML ready? We aren’t going to have this team forever. I don’t want to wait another 28 years – we can win now. I know this team could go far without Halladay – but with him would really solidify this team.

    Ruben, say goodbye to Drabek. Get this done. And let’s win another one.

     
  • Posts: 0 MP

    **Sorry aren’t going to be traded!*

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    On a positive note the Phils just signed Heathcliff Slocumb.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Dipsy

    So lets not put in Drabek quickly and lets wait another 10 days and get Halladay without putting him in at all.

    The Dipsy

     
  • Posts: 0 MP

    This deal isn’t going to get done without him. Why would Toronto trade us the best pitcher in the league for 3 or 4 B prospects? Silly. If this deal dosn’t get done I will seriously question how committed this organization is to repeating. We are in a unique position. This chance might not come again. We have the prospects and money to get this deal done, and people are afraid of what, losing prospects? They are PROSPECTS. How many starting pitching prospects have come out of our system? Hamels. If you remember, Myers was hyped up just like Drabek – and Myers turned out to be okay, but not worth all the hype he got down on the farm. We would be immediate favorties with Halladay to repeat. Yeah, it’s a risk, but its one we need to take.

     
 
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