Phils, Pedro in talks?
Posted by Pat Gallen, Mon, July 13, 2009 09:06 AM | Comments: 120
News, Posts, Rumors
According to Jayson Stark of ESPN.com, Pedro Martinez will be in Philadelphia today as the two sides come closer to a contract agreement. Stark says that Martinez will take a physical on Tuesday, and if he passes, he will sign a one-year prorated offer.
Phillies scouts watched Martinez throw in his native Dominican Republic last week and apparently liked what they saw. On Thursday, Martinez told the Associated Press, “I feel the best I have for some time.”
Related Stories:
Posts: 0 psujoe
No way do we want to take on an extra $100 contract.
I’d really hate to trade Drabek, but if we did I’d want Downs in the deal.
Posted: 12:51 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
cough, $100 million dollar contract.
Posted: 12:55 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 bretts
I personally think that we should do whatever it takes to get Halladay even if that means Drabek and Taylor and whoever else. The Phillies only have a certain amount of time to win another world series. If we say dont trade the prospects cause in 5 years they are going to be good. In 5 years who knows how the rest of the team is doing Utley Howard, Rollins , Werth and Vic are all going to be in their mid 30′s and who knows if they will even be in Philly anymore. And the prospects might not even make it to the big leagues. Remember Drabek has already had major arm surgery. My opinion is to play for the now not the future. Get Pedro and Halladay and lets win another world series. this year. Just my opinion.
Posted: 12:56 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
The Dipsy,
But whaddaya do when Ricciardi calls you and says “Roy and Wells for Marson, Donald, and Flande?”
I tell them to throw in Bautista and Downs and no more moves are needed, LOL.
Posted: 12:57 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck
You would have to consider the deal, I suppose….but….does it make sense to take on the burden of that contract starting in 2011? What if we have no use for him and have to dump the burden on some other team? Interesting idea, however. If it’s just that easy then you almost have to pull the trigger. Losing Marson open up the catcher’s position in, say, 2011….but I suppose you could use Wells to land a frontline catcher…that’s if another team is then willing to take on salary.
Posted: 01:01 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck
bretts….you have to play for now AND for the future. It’s ridiculous to gut the farm system and throw the Jays anybody and everybody for this guy. You do that and there will be NO championships for at least the next decade….and there’s no guarantee that they win this year, either.
Posted: 01:05 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Bruce
It struck me funny how a few posters here continuously criticized certain starters when the Phillies rotation as a whole were the primary reason for the great success of a 9-1 homestand.
Pedro Martinez for $2-3 million is obviously dirt cheap and with his experience and guile can fit into the least used 5th spot of the rotation or as a valuable asset in the bullpen.
And as for Halliday, I’ll quote one poster (Geoff)..”Why would you give up ALL your best prospects (or two of three) for SOMEONE THAT WILL BE HERE FOR A YEAR AND A HALF! If you think the Phillies will sign him to a long-term extension youre smoking crack.” (chuckles) That is close to my opinion. Amaro himself stated that there is a limit to the Phillies all time high payroll of $130 million plus. $23 million for 1.5 years plus several top prospects for a rental pitcher goes against sound judgment.
My feeling is Toronto is just looking at offers to get a feel of what is available for the off season and will cut bait on Halliday prior to end of this month.
Posted: 01:06 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
Hey…and as they used to say in Hollywood, Wells is “box office poison” :) I don’t think any team would touch him with a ten foot pole. Think about Sam Dalembert and the Sixers and then times it by 10. Perhaps, just perhaps, getting rid of Wells is more important to the Jays than getting fair value for Halladay. Just spitballing here.
The Dipsy
Posted: 01:07 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 bretts
You are right Chuck. But i know that the Blue Jays like Donald and Marson and would definitly be willing to put Carrasco and maybe one more prospect in there for Halladay. Like everyone else i would like to keep Drabek, I hear he is an absolute stud. I dont think that would be considered gutting the system. But either way it is going to be exciting to see what the Phillies do. I am not used to hearing that the phillies are going after one of the best pitchers/ players in baseball. Lol
Posted: 01:15 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck
Roy Halladay is gonna be on the national stage tomorrow night and, the Phillies need to hope for him to suck big big time. Why? All of a sudden the rose is slightly off the bloom and his value is slightly less perhaps than it is now. I know it’s just an ASG and he’ll throw 3 innings tops…but….rocking him hard will all of a sudden make these negotiations look a bit different. Not saying that we or anybody else will be able to steal him…but…he may not thought of as the second coming of Steve Carlton or whoever else you can think of.
Posted: 01:20 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 joedad
Pedro is medium reward, low risk. We don’t have a #5 starter. In fact, we don’t have a #4 starter either since Moyer is the worst pitcher in the league. Somebody will become available before the trade deadline that we can snatch up for medium prospects that could help like Blanton helped last year. I don’t think we need Halladay, at least not for the price that is rumored. When the arm is added, I’m not sure Moyer sticks around other than as a pitching coach or mop up guy.
Posted: 01:22 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
Chuck, respectfully, if he gets bombed tomorrow night it wouldn’t change my opinion of him one way or another. He’s got a 10 year body of work to back him up. Of course if I had to choose I hope he gets shallacked.
The Dipsy
Posted: 01:26 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck
No I understand Dipsy…..just would be nice to see the guy stink it up a bit to quiet everybody down a little. Of course he has his history to back him up. I’m just throwin darts, that’s all.
Posted: 01:38 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 JeffS
From cbssports.com:
Ricciardi won’t say which teams he has talked to, but he did set out some of the parameters.
“We’re not going to move Roy Halladay for the equivalent of two draft picks,” he said. “We asked a couple of teams about a certain player, and when they said no, we moved on.
“We don’t want to hear that somebody’s not available, and we don’t want to hear that they can’t handle the money.”
Sounds like: (1) this guy is bargaining as if he has great leverage (which I don’t think is the case), and (2) the Phils and Mets both took their best prospects off the table, and the Cubs and Dodgers can’t fork over the $$ needed to get the no trade waived and keep him, and this has Ricciardi upset.
Posted: 02:25 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I dont want him to stink it up tomorrow night. So he pitches poorly, then gets traded from a comfortable environment to one with massive expectations. Thats priming him to come here and fail and suck. YOu want him on fire, which confidence brimming.
Ricciardi has no leverage at all and all the GMs know it. But only a few teams have a show at all of getting him. The Phillies ($, prospects)and the Rangers (prospects, maybe the money) are the only two teams with a semi-decent chance. Other than that they are no real options OR need in places where there is a fit.
Hes backed into a corner and he doesnt like it. Thats all that is.
Posted: 02:31 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Well said, Geoff @ 11:50
Posted: 02:34 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Randy Miller said his sources have told him the Phillies can’t afford what’s left on Hallday’s 2009 contract. talk about ridiculous. Let’s move on guys.
Posted: 02:35 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 william
mlbtr has halladay saying he wants to win now as well as ouotes from werth and howard they also want to when now and basicly say(without making the FO look bad) they want roy here and if you have to trade whoever they should do it.
Posted: 02:36 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 william
thats win now not when now
Posted: 02:39 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Chuck
Geoff, you talk as if he’s coming here next week. That’s not gonna happen. I hear what you’re saying about the confidence and all but I don’t think his confidence is gonna change if he sucks tomorrow or not. All I was saying is that if he pitches poorly then we and everybody else has something else to talk about……the fact that he’s human and isn’t worth (nobody is) all the prospects that evryybody seems to want to throw at the Blue Jays just to get this guy.
More importantly about tomorrow night is the National League winning this thing so that if the Phillies get to the WS then they have home field.
Posted: 02:44 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
Personally I don’t think Riccardi is in a corner, I just think he has little to no intention of dealing Halladay in the next couple of weeks. He has two more windows to deal the guy and the priority for him is getting Wells and/or Rios where he is backed into a corner with a poor hand.
Riccardi has his pick of suitors and is probably helped by the fact virtually no chance of there’s re-signing Halladay so it’ll be down to who has the best rental package when Riccardi decides to make a deal. If he’s able to move Wells or Rios don’t discount the possibility of the Jays taking a last shot at locking Halladay up.
Posted: 02:46 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
I agree. I predict that Roy Halladay will not be traded. And if he is, that team will overpay and it will backfire on them. Even if the Phillies had to face him in the postseason I am fairly conifcent that this lineup, when on its game, can get to anybody even if its for only 3 runs.
They still need a beast up front, but it does NOT have to be halladay. The Phillies said weeks ago that theyd prefer to trade for someone younger and under team control for a few years.
Posted: 02:46 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 NJ
^…getting >rid of< Wells and/or Rios
Posted: 02:48 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
What’s J.P. throwing a little hissy fit? Looks like it might be a stare down until 11:59 p.m. July 31 or is that 30? I hope Ruben didn’t tell him that Chase or Ryan weren’t available…cuz that would have made him upset. This guy is gonna get fired in the off season anyway. I bet the name of the guy that we’ll end up trading for hasn’t even been uttered yet. Can we all work from the premise that we can’t go into the playoffs trotting out Cole, Blanton and Happ?
The Dipsy
Posted: 02:51 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 rob5000
Dipsy, I hear you. But if not Halladay then who? I’m just not confident at all that the Phillies can pick up what they need in a post deadline claim. In that case, I really believe they are in a more competitive market for a higher tier starter. I’m just not too sure that trade market is for Halladay, but I can’t figure who it might be. A trade is going to happen, and the way the Phillies FO works, they’ll keep it a secret. They’re good at that.
Posted: 03:17 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
Its starting to feel real Gil Mechey around the Dipsy household.
The Dipsy
Posted: 03:30 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Gavin
Just a quick pause here.
Isnt it nice to be in the conversation that the Phils could be getting Roy Halladay, whether they do or not? For the first time in maybe forever we have the $$$ and the prospects to get Roy Halladay. We normally have to sit on the sideline and watch everyone else haggle over these guys and we have to settle for Kyle Lohse.
Anyway, the future is bright. If we get him thats awesome . If we dont we have some of the top prospects in the game close to the bigs. I’m a bigass pessimist, but I like where we are.
Posted: 03:41 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
As far as Pedro is concerned, here is a snippet from Baseball Prospectus:
“Pedro’s projection pegs him as virtually equivalent to what the Phillies could have expected from the likes of Rodrigo Lopez, Kyle Kendrick and a number of other internal options. However, if he is truly capable of hitting 91-93 mph with the heater as recent reports indicate, he carries much more upside than the revolving door of fifth starters currently employed by the defending champs.”
It’s a low risk maneuver and has nothing to do with whether or not Halladay is coming here.
Posted: 03:44 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
Meche isn’t really an upgrade to the playoff roster.
Posted: 03:48 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Gavin
I’m curious as to what Pedro’s timeline would be before he would pitch for the big club. The guy hasnt pitched since March!!!!! Wouldnt you guess a 3 start minimum in the minors. Thats 15 days from lets say Thursday the 16th, so the Phils wouldnt even have him until guess when……..July 31st.
Posted: 04:00 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Meche has 2 years, $24 million left on his deal after this season. Halladay has a one year $15.75 deal for next year.
Value wise, it isn’t even close. Why pay $12 mil for Meche, when you can pay $15.75 for Halladay?
Give up the prospects to Toronto and Halladay will be the greatest Phillie pitcher since Steve Carlton.
Posted: 04:03 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 The Dipsy
Its STILL feeling Gil Mechey. I think Pedro has been playing hasn’t he? Somewhat at least.
The Dipsy
Posted: 04:03 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 psujoe
There erally isn’t anything out there on teams that are sellers at this point. Pittsburg won’t trade Duke, Cleveland probably going to keep Lee. Halladay should let his management know he’s not letting them out of the no trade clause if he’s not traded before the deadline. That would get the ball moving.
Posted: 04:05 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Dan C
Phils have no history of obtaining a premiere impact player at the deadline, why would they start now? Halladay won’t be coming here. The Phils are too much in love with their farm system. Martinez will be an experiment, and if he doesn’t workout, they’ll go for a Joe Blanton type pitcher in August through the waiver wire.
Posted: 04:05 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
I agree that I don’t think Halladay will be coming here, but it is fun to dream….
Posted: 04:07 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 william
even the players want this trade to go thru they all want to win now no one can predict the future but halladay is a much more sure thing than any prospects we current have plus drabeck has had tommy john surgery already and what he is 21 ? just how long do you think that arm will last? anyway these prospects will be in the A.L. it’s not like were going to be facing them very often even if they do pan out and thats a big IF players play this game to win championships and roy gives us the best chance to win now!! giving up 2-3 top prospects will not destroy this teams ability to win in the future
Posted: 04:12 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 1372 Pat Gallen
With this talk that Pedro is coming to town and likely to sign a contract for less than $2 million, and the Phillies saying that money is now the issue with Halladay, how does that make you guys feel?
If they are willing to spend some of the money that could go towards Halladay on Pedro, then that must show where their heads are. They clearly do not think they can get Halladay, or just arent willing to go for what Toronto wants.
Posted: 04:18 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 CZ
I really think that the only way this deal goes down is if Happ in included in the deal. That of course requires two things…the Phillies being willing to trade him and the Blue Jays actually wanting him. I’m sure that CG shutout in Toronto is fresh in their minds. I know its hard to imagine dealing basically your best starter of late but in my mind Happ has been piptching way over his head. I think he’s a very solid middle rotation guy but to me its more important to keep Drabek in this system. If we can turn a monster first half from an overacheiving guy like Happ into Halladay I think that’s a major win for the Phillies.
Posted: 04:20 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
I don’t think Pedro has anything to do with Halladay. They have never said that adding Halladay is impossible because of money.
The Phillies won’t be able to re-sign Halladay for over $100 million but not because they gave Pedro $1.9 million.
Posted: 04:22 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
But those big mega trade deadline trade ALMOST never work out. Especially not in Philadelphia. Im ok with passing on Halladay. Thats the big distraction trade of this season. Last years was Sabathia. Get someone whos very good. It doesnt have to be some big hyped guy. Just a good guy that logs innings and is of frontline quality.
That wont be cheap either, but it would be more realistic than the Halladay situation. He wont be traded at all. If he is it wont be for as much as they think theyre going to get. Kyle Drabek is going to be on this team next season and for many years to come. SSo is Ja Happ. Lets be realistic here and not P!$$ away our best prospects for ONE FREAKING GUY. ONE GUY. In a team sport.
Posted: 04:27 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
I think Johan Santana is working out just fine for the Mets. Dan Haren has been great for Arizona. Even though Tim Hudson got injured, the prospects the Braves gave up for him (Dan Meyer, etc.) never panned out, and let us not forget the Curt Schilling deal. I think we would all agree that those prospects didn’t work out.
Posted: 04:32 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Santana was in teh offseason. So was Dan Haren.
Posted: 04:34 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Im NOT saying big trades dont work. Im saying these hastily conceived deadline deals arent always the best idea.
Posted: 04:35 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Ok, so if the Phillies trade prospects for Halladay in the offseason, then it’s a good deal?
Posted: 04:35 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
Not necessarily. This thing REEKS of backfire bad karma hex. I would stay away from it. They dont really want to trade him, theyre just hoping some DESPERATE team coughs up their whole farm for him so they can sucker them out of their best young talent.
NObodys going to bite on that. It aint happening. The Phillies are NOT that desperate.
Posted: 04:37 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
The problem I have with not wanting to part with these prospects is that they’re just a year ago, most Phillies fans had never heard of these guys and now they’re “untouchable” for Roy Halladay?
I mean, it’s Roy freaking Halladay. Kyle Drabek looks good now but he’s coming off Tommy John surgery and is no sure thing to stay healthy. Michael Taylor is tearing it up at AA, but there are concerns about how his power is going to translate in the big leagues.
I’d rather trade more for a proven stud like Halladay, then go half-assed and pick up another Joe Blanton.
Posted: 04:38 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 1372 Pat Gallen
Griffin, a report from Randy Miller of phillyburbs.com said that a source of his told him the deal partly hinges on the $5 mil, or so, he is owed for the rest of this season. He said the Phils do not want to pay it.
Posted: 04:41 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
With a starter’s ERA over 5.00, the Phillies should be desperate.
Posted: 04:41 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Pat Gallen, I hadn’t heard that. Hopefully that’s just posturing. Considering how much dead money the Phillies have on the books (Eaton, Jenkins, Thome), that’s a bit disappointing.
Posted: 04:44 PM on July 13, 2009
Posts: 0 Geoff
But tahts the trap. Joe Blanton was the single best deadline deal in MLB last year of all the starting pitchers available. HE was still pitching in October and helped win a WS.
Thats why you have scouts to project where your prospects will end up in the future as a player. This is the SAME thing the Flyers and Sixers always used to do. Give up your future for a veteran star who is awesome for a while then gets injured or sucks and flames out. The Flyers just did it again (though I like Chris Pronger now the Flyers are stuck with all that money and no cap room AGAIN).
The Phillies have never really dont that and unless you can get the deal YOU want (from Amaros perspective) then you dont make the move.
Posted: 04:47 PM on July 13, 2009