Phillies Nation

Michael Taylor is a monster, and I sure hope we keep him.

1:21pm: MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki heard from a Phillies source who says Halladay’s $14.25MM salary is nothing and won’t be an issue. The inclusion of Vernon Wells in any trade would be a dealbreaker, however.

With all the caveats that the Jays are said to be making (include Wells, no time to talk extension, etc.) does anyone else feel like this is just posturing and Toronto doesn’t really want to talk seriously about trade until the offseason? This just gives them a chance to scout those 3-4 teams who they line up with and have those teams move certain prospects up to higher competition to get a better read on them – at best some team might throw a ton of a deal at them now…..there’s really no downside for Toronto.

Two quick questions some one out there might know:
1. Besides Stairs does anyone else on the Phillies have a history with Roy?
2. If the Phils include Donald in any trade, does that force them to work hard to resign Pedro or is there someone else in the system who looks like they have a chance to step in at 3rd next year?

mlbtraderumorsRT @JeffFletcherAOLOn July 31, the Phillies and Blue Jays are going to be staying in the same hotel in SF. Could be convenient for Halladay.

Couldn’t plan it any better

The Big Dipper

Jeff,

Beat it geek.

manny I completely disagree with you.
The only reason he’s even sniff the october roster is if
1. Werth was included in the trade for Roy
AND
2. Mayberry took over the starting RF duties fulltime. (If Werth leaves it would be more likely for John to split time in a platoon with Dobbs/Stairs)

The only other reason would be a rash of injuries and those would more likely be filled with waiver pickups etc then rush a prospect (that just hasn’t been the FO’s MO the last decade or so).

Wouldn’t be surprised if they called him up when rosters expand but anything more than that is dreaming and/or nightmares

I think Eyre played with Toronto in 2002 or something like that. But that is a pretty tenuous connection at best.

Also, I see Moyer is scheduled to pitch tonight. Wonder why they wouldn’t go with Cole tonight and Happ tomorrow on regular rest. You could follow with Blanton, Moyer & RH 5th starter to break up the lefties. Anyone have insight?

Jeff isn’t it a bit harsh to call the organisation cheap outright and you can’t expect all-stars at every position, Feliz is a very good 3rd basemen for the money and there are only a handful of two-way catchers better than Ruiz.

On the Halladay issue he isn’t going to be moved with Wells, that’s just writers and bloggers trying to get water from a stone. No club is going to take Wells contract on just to get Halladay, it makes no financial sense for a team to eat that kind of salary. The animosity so often captured here is puzzling so much of the time, IF Halladay is traded the Phils will be in the thick of the bidding, it’s just stupid to harbour anger for not getting a who hasn’t been traded, it’s not like the Phils have missed out on him.

And for the Pedro haters hold your tongue for a little while, it’s not like the fate of the organisation rests on his deal and Pedro with something to prove might just help this team.

CZ -
Moyer has great record against the Marlins historically plus they probably wanted to give Cole and Happ an extra day of rest to keep them fresh for the long haul.

And do the Marlins in general do badly agaist lefties?

I love Coste but he wasn’t a good defensive catcher, he was a good minor league hitter who settled into being a self taught catcher after having it thrust upon him.

Ruiz doesn’t have the upside to anchor a battery for a decade like Lieberthal did but their aren’t many everyday catchers who aren’t a liability behind the plate better than him.

Jeff, you quite frankly have no idea what you are talking about.

Coste was horrible defensively. He had trouble blocking balls in the dirt, couldn’t make the throw to second and called horrible games. Look at the splits with Coste catching vs. Ruiz. We are way below .500 when Coste was behind the plate. Remember our early season slide? That was when Ruiz was on the DL and Coste was catching daily.

The organization was so down on Coste behind the plate they went out and got Bako to be the back-up catcher. Coste was given the RH bat on the bench role and failed miserably at that. That is why he was let go.

I read somewhere that Charlie gave Moyer the first start cause of his record vs the Marlins and to give Hamels an extra day to “get right”

The Big Dipper.

Ben –
just like a no trade clause, Roy can change that whole “I don’t negotiate midseason.” Besides, if he doesn’t talk about an extension – at least in general terms – when he talks to the team before waiving his clause he and his agent are idiots. He may not sign anything until he;s had a chance to play there a little bit but if a team does not indicate the potential for a sizable extension in the near future there is no reason he’ll waive the clause.

Halladay’s agent knows he’s in for a marquee deal once the guy hits the open market, he’ll land somewhere between Zito and Santana/Sabathia money. Since teams were willing to tack on that 5th year for Burnett there’s no doubt someone’s going to tack a 6th of 7th year on to get Halladay signed.

chris- of course he can, but why would he? he’s going to cash in huge in a year and a half. he could play for almost any contendor he wants to. why does he need to negotiate before he wants to? if anything a team would be happy to get him so at least they get some kind of inside edge to get him back when he hits the open market.

the only reason he would be an idiot to go somewhere without talking extension is if he really wants to settle down. i don’t think he does. if he wants to settle down he’ll stay in toronto. he wants to play for a contendor, and so he will waive his no trade for a contendor and he will sign his FA deal for a contendor. if he likes the team he is on when he is traded, he will take a lower rate to play for them if they can’t foot that type of bill (like he did in toronto). a team isn’t going to not try and re-sign him though.

For anyone, the right time to negoitiate is when you can get a fat raise for a long time which for Roy is now. Sure he will get paid eventually – unless he gets hurt, or doesn’t adjust to the new place, or tanks in his first postseason, etc.- but why would he take the chance if he doesn’t have to. The agent will try to get the deal done as soon as possible – even if that means he does all the talking with the club and only beings in Roy at the very end – that’s how the best agents work, they don’t bother the client until they are actually needed to agree to the final terms and sign.

I like where your head is at, Dipsy. What about San Fransisco? They’re looking for a bat, arne’t they?

If you think you can take Wells and flip him thats crazy. Thats INSANE.

Geoff – Read the post a little more closely, please. We will get stuck with a portion of Wells contract, no doubt, BUT we’ll also have Halladay and at a much cheaper price.

The Dipsy

That sounds very similar to what CO did with Hampton years back. It would need to be done simlutaneously as a three team deal which is very doable – SF is one of the more likely places but even Chicago this year might make sense (although they might have someone take Bradley off their hands which Toronto might be willing to do since I believe it’s a one year deal).

Once again though, three team deals usually only happen over the winter because of the need to have all three teams together making concessions…..but aren’t the Phils gonig to be in SF when the Jays are in Oak?

Jeff is a moron. How can you call this club Cheap????

By the way, looking back at the original point of this thread. It’s looking more and more like Werth is making his last season here. Either Mayberry or Taylor will be in RF next year – the Phils need to cut salary. If he’s not traded insome kind of deal for pitching this season, look for him to be offered arbitration and leave because he wants (and deserves) a multiyear deal — it’s just something that the Phils can’t fit in with all the extensions last year and the need for pitching.
This season was to decide if Vic or Werth will get the extension and it looks like Vic seems to be slightly ahead and a better fit in the long run partly because of the find of guys the Phils have in the minors.

Taking on even a part of Wells’ contract would UNNECESSARILY cripple the team with a chunk of payroll thrown away essentially. Its the type of thing that Ruben Amaro could get fired for. You have to think of it as htat dead money is SOME piece that they could add in FA or trade but not Cant because they agreed to pay it out.

NJ –
I don’t think that Tor would necessarily be “compromising getting the building blocks for the new generation.” Even if they include Wells and his salary they could still demand 4-5 players from another team (or others according to Dipsy) :
2 high prospects who will step in by 2010 – 1 pitcher and 1 position player,
1 current major leaguer either a middle rotation guy or decent but not great OF starter,
a major league utlity player
and a AA guy with upside.

On top of that, they would save enough money between Roy and Wells (even if they eat about 2 million of his a year) to sign 2 Feliz sized contracts. If 2 of the 3 prospects work out they’d be satisfied.