Phillies Nation

how about this..they sign Pedro, because their going to have to include Happ in a deal for Halladay. Our rotation becomes Hamels, Halladay, Blanton, Moyer, and Pedro (or Carrasco, or Carpenter, or Kendrick or…)?

Sal, that is everyone’s favorite analysis/rumor of the day, but I think its a pipedream.

Anyway, I just don’t know how you can consider a situation win/win when there are NO OTHER TEAMS INTERESTED. I mean you are telling me that he’s throwing well enough that we are interested, but no one else is this desperate? I just don’t see it. Why didn’t one of the other contenders step up and go check him out as well.

Plus, try convincing a stadium full of Philly fans its a win/win when he gets lit up for a second straight start after being signed with Carpenter and Lopez pitching well at AAA. He also still stinks of New York Met. I’m just not as open to “projects” like this once you hit the All-Star break. April is one thing but I don’t want random burnt out arms being signed just to give it a whirl when we have division rivals coming to town in July-August. Just my take.

ESPN is reporting that whoever wants Halladay has to take the terrible contract that is Vernon Wells along with it. That could be good for the Phillies but also a deal breaker. If you have to add that big contract then it means the Phillies should not have to part with as many or as high of quality prospects as they would going just after Halladay. I could see the Phillies still doing it but they would probably have to include Victorino or Werth. Unless they want to pay Wells to be a almost 5 million dollar right hander off the bench and spot starter in the OF.

I think they want to use him as the 5th guy for the stretch and out of the bullpen in the postseason…

As for The WElls thing…thats called bluffing. NOBODY IN BASEBALL is going to take on that contract. Theyre full of it when they demand that.

I completely agree with you, Miles. I’m pretty sure that one of the guys from AAA can perform at least as well as Pedro at this point.

$2 million or whatever they pay him is still a good amount of money (he’d be making the same as Hamels during the rest of the season)… can’t we just use that to get a bench bat that’s better than Bruntlett and let one of our AAA guys be our 5th starter? They’ve done a good job, so why change it?

Olney says Pedro has agreed to throw a second time (which he previously refused to do) and if the Phils see what they like then he could be in Philly by Monday. I guess we have to believe the Phils are looking at something very specific in Pedro otherwise it is a questionable move.

With Millar – is that a guy that will thrive as a pinch hitter? does he need playing time to get good at bats? because the only PT hell get is as a pinch hitter.

The issue remains the PHILS have not a little but a Serious problem with starting pitching…though Pedro could help the situation, our WINDOW is this YEAR, 2010 and maybe 2011…
A Halladay and Hamels, one two, with Blanton and Happ(if not traded) as the 3/4 and bringing in a rookie for next year solidifies us for next year…

Trading, 3 Farm Studs for the Best pitcher in Baseball, places the PHILS in the driver seat for two seasons…with much money coming off the books after this year…it also would allow us to either resign him, or go after another upcoming star starter for 2011…

Giving up ( pick 3 of the following )CARASCO, HAPP, Savery, Drabek, and Knapp along with Dom Brown would make us unhappy about 2012, but great about the PHILS in 09, 10 and 11!

DO it, and hope for the best…we are on the cusp…waiting any longer reduces his games available for impact…we have one week to deal! (and have max impact)

I’ve said this in other threads and I’ll reiterate my thoughts here. I LOVE this move. The reason? It shows the Phillies will do whatever it takes…but…they will do their best to build for the future at the same time. Who cares about the 2M? The way we fill up our stadium every game it means nothing. There is absolutely no risk at all here. If he comes in and blows up a few games release him and move on…its that simple.

We are in the catbird seat here on all fronts. We lead our division and are capable of winning it going away with what we currently have on the roster. People like to criticize this move by citing that Pedro ‘choked’ with the Mets and caused them to miss the playoffs. Maybe he did but that situation was entirely different. The Phillies are not relying on Pedro…there are other options. The Mets, however, had no one else. He had to keep pitching for them even when it wasn’t going well.

Pedro wants to play for a contender as he has never one a championship, so maybe he hasn’t had interest from other teams because he wants to pitch for the WFC.

Pedro is as much a competitor as anyone who has ever taken the mound and that attitude will fit in with guys like Chase and Ibanez who play the game hard on every play. I look forward to him pitching for the Phillies and I hope we can get him a ring.

The issue with starting pitching isn’t serious, it’s noticeable but not serious. The majority of the rotation is turning in good performances in most starts. In the majority of losses the bats have gone quiet, failed to drive runners in or the opposition has managed to get some runs off the pen, sure there have been some bad starts that have resulted in losses but right now there aren’t too many. Roy Halladay, Kyle Drabek, Carlos Carrasco hell Dan Haren won’t change that.

You don’t just give up prospects to get a guy or raid free agency thinking you’ll be better, the Yankees became a laughing stock for it, the Mets failed with that principle, even the Braves tried it briefly. I’d love Halladay but again you don’t just get a guy because you think he makes you better, you address your real problems and then se how a guy can help you otherwise your running towards a mess.

Pedro is said to be throwing today at 1pm.. because they want to see how his arm responds before they sign him.

Don M, how exactly do you know that he is better than Bastardo and Lopez? His ERA last season is almost exactly what Moyer’s is right now and all I’ve heard on this blog is complaining about him all year (some of it justified). The guy has been nothing but unproductive since 2005 and I find it to be very wishful thinking that he would be effective enough to keep a spot in this rotation, especially considering the ballpark.

And since when is 2-4 million not a big deal? You don’t just pay someone that and that drop them after two starts if they are terrible. What happened to my angry Phillies mob that used to worry about dishing out dollars? That WF Championship has made us weak!

Agree NJ…all these people are like “trade drabek, trade all of those top guys, its roy halladay.” i even heard someone call in on the drive home to ESPN radio yesterday and say “trade ryan howard, kyle drabek, michael taylor, and carlos carrasco for roy halladay and kevin millar” and the person was SERIOUS…still stuck in that idea that theyre going to trade howard. THey signed him to an extension because theyre NOT GOING TO TRADE HIM.

what if you give up all those prospects for Halalday and he gets injured again? did you think about that?

You have to hold onto 3 of your top 4 prospects in this deal. Out of Drabek, Knapp, Taylor, and Brown you have to hold onto three of them. Thats what WINNING teams do. You KEEP your best prospects so that you can have a respectable team in 2011.

YOu need a frontline starting pitcher, BUT it doesnt have to be roy halladay if the asking price is too high. would it be great? YES. But if theyre asking you to give up your 3 BA Top 25 prospects then you tell em to take a hike on down the road. YOu offer one of those guys.

And if tahts not enough? SO FREAKING WHAT?> MOVE ON TO SOMEONE ELSE.

Thats the asking price in MOST trades for starting pitchers. One top notch prospect, a few decent prospects (Carasco, Donald) and filler. The Bedard trade was an anomaly and it got their General manager fired.

Sabathia, Haren, Harden: all these deals folliowed the same general format.

Also, any thoughts on whether we could do a three-way with BoSox for Penny if we can’t get Halladay?

The WFC made us realize we have a great team already, they just are missing a few more pieces and then theyll be back again.

were not as desperate as we used to be. Thats why its odd when you hear someone saying sell the farm for Halladay…because why? They won a championship with THIS same basic core team. They need a frontline starting pitcher, a RH bench bat, and an extra relief arm. But two of those 3 pieces you can get in August in a waiver-trade for cheap (which is the Phillies’ specialty). The starter has to be good and it will cost some good prospects, but you dont go throwing away the future ace of this team (drabek) and a future OPS/Homerun machine (taylor) or even the future leadoff hitter of this team (brown) just blindly and wrecklessly.

thats what those three guys project to be, so you can give up one of them for the Doc, but NOT 2 and NOT all 3.

Happ is WAY too good a major league pitcher to trade or to even consider trading. There is ZERO chance that he will be traded. There is ZERO chance that Drabek will be traded? why? bc the GM and the Manager came out and said so…ALSO, how many times in sports (and in philly sports) has a team given up their entire farm for one superstar and it hasnt worked out? Look at the Braves with Texeira, actually – that stuff happens EVERY year. Sabathia? yeah they made the playoffs but he choked again.

im PRAYING that the Pronger trade works out for the Flyers…praying hard…

I’m sorry… as good as these guys look, we would be LUCKY if one of those names (Drabek, Brown, Taylor, Knapp) actually lived up to the hype.

Sell high, buy low… Rube should be smart and patient but I think that we should go for it. Prospects are prospects… if we don’t get Halladay, we need to go out and get a Davis/Duke/Washburn and we’ll be in a market saturated with buyers. There are only one or two teams that can put together a legitimate package for Halladay… I would rather be fishing in that pond (than the one where I’m standing shoulder-to-shoulder with other GM’s).

My $0.02.

Chuck P .. I agree to an extent.. because getting rid of TOP PROSPECTS for Roy Halladay.. isn’t a “BUY LOW” move ..

but I agree with what you’re saying.. if Drabek has half the career that Halladay has so far, we should be happy

Sorry, missed that one Keystone. That’s what I thought but a guy at work told me he had already left that team and I foolishly didn’t check the facts.

Very good point Geoff. The WFC has not made us soft but it has taught us the value of patience and levelheadedness. Sure, we all still get upset at every loss and joyous with every win but I think all of that sky-is-falling crap has moved on a bit. This team has been doing business the same way for years now and they have shown that for the most part they know what they are doing. I will let them handle it the way they see fit and I will keep watching the Philies win.

I think something is wrong here because I have been agreeing with Geoff way too much lately. Except I think if you have to give up Drabek, Donald, and one of the two outfielders I think they can do that. That is one top tier prospect and two guys that probably will never play in the big league on the PHillies, and even throw in another prospect, Carpenter, or Carasco. But you are right you do not give up your three top prospects, and you do not trade Happ, because he has proven to be a solid pitcher

I’m with Miles and Geoff on this one. If we can’t get Halliday because they simply want too much, SO WHAT… MOVE ON, and go after another less shiny but still solid pitcher. This Halladay thing has become more an obsession than an objective, cool-headed rationale.

Look where we have holes and fill them. I see a hole in our No.2 spot… go take care of that. Halladay would be terrific, he would give us much more than what we need, but seriously ARE WE THAT DESPERATE?

I didn’t say trade them all, Geoff… I actually said that we only need to trade ONE to get him. I do, however, feel like we should be selling high because our farm, which was once laughable, is now, arguably, the best in baseball. If there are only one or two teams that can actually piece together a package to get Halladay (and has a team that he’s willing to play for), I would say that’s a buyer’s market, wouldn’t you? Sell our prospects high and buy Halladay low… he’s a great pitcher and everyone knows that but there aren’t many teams that are able to do it…

Bastardo should be inserted into the pen upon his return. I think he should be able to contribute down the stretch and be groomed to replace Scott Eyre when he retires at the end of the season. With the eventual eye towards replacing Romero when he walks as the second setup man.

I’d let the Blue Jays pick any 4 minor league players. The word “untouchable” is so ridiculous. I laugh at it every time.

right because why would you want good players to develop in your system and play for you under team control cheaply for 6 years? who wants that these days?

Does anyone think they might let Victorino walk? With Taylor developing so quickly theyll have a crowded outfield..Werth has another year after this one…Does Vic have one more arb year next year?