Comments on: Out of Bullpen, Moyer Dominates http://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/ Your source for Phillies news, events, trade rumors, tickets, bars and other fun stuff. Sun, 12 Feb 2012 02:33:53 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Dhallhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-130118 Dhall Thu, 20 Aug 2009 12:13:12 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-130118 I don't care how many wins Moyer gets, I can't see him getting in to the Hall of Fame. His ERA is terrible. To my knowledge, there's no one in the HOF with a career ERA even close to that high (4.22). I like Moyer as much as the next guy, but he's simply not a HOF pitcher. I'm not even sure Mussina gets into the Hall. His ERA is pretty high as well. I don’t care how many wins Moyer gets, I can’t see him getting in to the Hall of Fame. His ERA is terrible. To my knowledge, there’s no one in the HOF with a career ERA even close to that high (4.22). I like Moyer as much as the next guy, but he’s simply not a HOF pitcher. I’m not even sure Mussina gets into the Hall. His ERA is pretty high as well.

]]> By: Chuckhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129928 Chuck Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:45:29 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129928 Good one Dipsy....Andrews is a hero....AND a VERY rich man. Good one Dipsy….Andrews is a hero….AND a VERY rich man.

]]> By: The Dipsyhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129918 The Dipsy Wed, 19 Aug 2009 22:02:33 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129918 I'll tell ya who belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Dr. James Andrews.The Dipsy I’ll tell ya who belongs in the Baseball Hall of Fame. Dr. James Andrews.

The Dipsy

]]> By: SOFTFOAMEARPLUGS.COMhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129914 SOFTFOAMEARPLUGS.COM Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:30:30 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129914 Original Chuck P - thanks! I've got Dish Network and my package doesn't include the MLB network. Switching to DIRCECTV this weekend and my new package will. Really looking forward to being able to get it. 3 days too late but I got to see Cliff live at Wrigley last week so that'll have to make up for it! Original Chuck P – thanks! I’ve got Dish Network and my package doesn’t include the MLB network. Switching to DIRCECTV this weekend and my new package will. Really looking forward to being able to get it. 3 days too late but I got to see Cliff live at Wrigley last week so that’ll have to make up for it!

]]> By: Keith Ehttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129913 Keith E Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:27:20 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129913 How can Tommy John not be in the HOF? The guy was a human guinea pig for a surgical procedure that is now fairly common. Little kid to his dad at Cooperstown: "Dad, who's Tommy John and what is the surgery"? That question should be answered in the HOF. Going to the game tonight. Get to see in person what Rubin stole. GO PHILS!!! How can Tommy John not be in the HOF?
The guy was a human guinea pig for a surgical procedure that is now fairly common.
Little kid to his dad at Cooperstown: “Dad, who’s Tommy John and what is the surgery”? That question should be answered in the HOF.
Going to the game tonight. Get to see in person what Rubin stole.
GO PHILS!!!

]]> By: Chuckhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129894 Chuck Wed, 19 Aug 2009 20:03:56 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129894 Dipsy....my bad..I thought Kitty Kaat was in..went back and double-checked and he's not..Soooo.....if HE'S not in then Jamie doesn't stand a chance either. It's a shame for Kaat with, especially with the 532 Gloves Gloves (actually it's 16....just saw that when I looked up his stats).Same probably goes with the others like Blyleven then.. Dipsy….my bad..

I thought Kitty Kaat was in..went back and double-checked and he’s not..

Soooo…..if HE’S not in then Jamie doesn’t stand a chance either. It’s a shame for Kaat with, especially with the 532 Gloves Gloves (actually it’s 16….just saw that when I looked up his stats).

Same probably goes with the others like Blyleven then..

]]> By: The Dipsyhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129883 The Dipsy Wed, 19 Aug 2009 19:00:47 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129883 Personally, I don't think Jamie has a chance in Hades to get in. Blyleven, Tommy John, Jim Kaat all are not in. jamie will probably be viewed a lot like Kaat. Long playing career. A lotta stats. But didn't win the 532 Gold Gloves like Kaat did.The Dipsy Personally, I don’t think Jamie has a chance in Hades to get in. Blyleven, Tommy John, Jim Kaat all are not in. jamie will probably be viewed a lot like Kaat. Long playing career. A lotta stats. But didn’t win the 532 Gold Gloves like Kaat did.

The Dipsy

]]> By: The Original Chuck Phttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129875 The Original Chuck P Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:36:34 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129875 He doesn't really have much of a case besides wins... he doesn't have the individual accolades, he didn't win a ton of world series trophies, he doesn't hold any records, he hasn't hit any milestones and he doesn't have great numbers... it's a tough argument. It shouldn't be the Hall of Good... guys like Jim Rice who hit less than 400 HR in a bandbox (Fenway) probably don't deserve the nod but they slide in so maybe Jamie gets enough votes in a down year... but I highly doubt it. He doesn’t really have much of a case besides wins… he doesn’t have the individual accolades, he didn’t win a ton of world series trophies, he doesn’t hold any records, he hasn’t hit any milestones and he doesn’t have great numbers… it’s a tough argument. It shouldn’t be the Hall of Good… guys like Jim Rice who hit less than 400 HR in a bandbox (Fenway) probably don’t deserve the nod but they slide in so maybe Jamie gets enough votes in a down year… but I highly doubt it.

]]> By: Chuckhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129872 Chuck Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:12:52 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129872 Blyleven should be in, even if he did lose 250 games. Like I said, Moyer's winning pct. is much better but his era is higher. I really think you can make a case for both based on completely different careers and circumstances. Blyleven should be in, even if he did lose 250 games. Like I said, Moyer’s winning pct. is much better but his era is higher. I really think you can make a case for both based on completely different careers and circumstances.

]]> By: The Original Chuck Phttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129871 The Original Chuck P Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:03:30 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129871 Chuck ,Moyer won't get in... unless he gets 300 wins which is going to be a stretch, he won't get in and I'm pretty sure of that. 300 wins isn't the only classifier and shouldn't mean that you get a free ticket (Don Sutton probably doesn't belong in the hall of fame; he had the benefit of playing for some really good Dodger teams and played forever) but it's something that sticks out in the minds of the voters.Blyleven belongs in the Hall... he almost won 300 games playing for some below average teams and he only pitched until age 41. Bert is 9th all-time in shutouts and 5th in strikeouts. He was also MONEY in the postseason. Moyer can't say any of that... and I'm from his hometown so I'm more biased that anyone. Chuck ,

Moyer won’t get in… unless he gets 300 wins which is going to be a stretch, he won’t get in and I’m pretty sure of that. 300 wins isn’t the only classifier and shouldn’t mean that you get a free ticket (Don Sutton probably doesn’t belong in the hall of fame; he had the benefit of playing for some really good Dodger teams and played forever) but it’s something that sticks out in the minds of the voters.

Blyleven belongs in the Hall… he almost won 300 games playing for some below average teams and he only pitched until age 41. Bert is 9th all-time in shutouts and 5th in strikeouts. He was also MONEY in the postseason. Moyer can’t say any of that… and I’m from his hometown so I’m more biased that anyone.

]]> By: Chuckhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129869 Chuck Wed, 19 Aug 2009 17:05:29 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129869 I'm not saying that Moyer is gonna get 98% of the vote or that he'll even get in on the first ballot. Blyleven is a good example and he'll eventually get in, in my opinion. I realize it's borderline, but I think Jamie's a future HOFer.A point of comparison...Moyer 257-194 (.570 winning pct.) 4.22 ERABlyleven 287 - 250 (.534) 3.31 ERABlyleven has A LOT of losses, but his ERA is almost a point LOWER than Jamie's. I’m not saying that Moyer is gonna get 98% of the vote or that he’ll even get in on the first ballot. Blyleven is a good example and he’ll eventually get in, in my opinion. I realize it’s borderline, but I think Jamie’s a future HOFer.

A point of comparison…Moyer 257-194 (.570 winning pct.) 4.22 ERA

Blyleven 287 – 250 (.534) 3.31 ERA

Blyleven has A LOT of losses, but his ERA is almost a point LOWER than Jamie’s.

]]> By: phambinohttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129867 phambino Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:47:31 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129867 Does anyone feel that the Philllies owe Jamie Moyer anything?I don't.But, it is a great story to have him do so well in his first relief appearance. Six innings of two-hit, shutout baseball is outstanding worK. Does anyone feel that the Philllies owe Jamie Moyer anything?

I don’t.

But, it is a great story to have him do so well in his first relief appearance. Six innings of two-hit, shutout baseball is outstanding worK.

]]> By: Argivehttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129866 Argive Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:44:47 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129866 Chuck:Sorry, but I disagree. Moyer put up those wins because he has been pitching for a very long time and was decent for much of those years. He has never really been dominant a la Gibson, Hunter or Palmer, merely very good. Just because a guy has lots of wins doesn't automatically qualify him for the HOF. Bert Blyleven's still waiting, for one thing (287 wins). Moyer's lifetime ERA is over 4 and his lifetime ERA+ is 105, meaning that he is five percent better than average for his career. His career BA/OBP against is .268/.322, which is pretty high. Most of the pitchers you mentioned put up way more dominant performances than Moyer in a far shorter period of time. He's got a case, but it's borderline, and predicated mostly on longevity. I love the guy, and it would be great if he got in. But I just don't see it happening. Chuck:

Sorry, but I disagree. Moyer put up those wins because he has been pitching for a very long time and was decent for much of those years. He has never really been dominant a la Gibson, Hunter or Palmer, merely very good. Just because a guy has lots of wins doesn’t automatically qualify him for the HOF. Bert Blyleven’s still waiting, for one thing (287 wins). Moyer’s lifetime ERA is over 4 and his lifetime ERA+ is 105, meaning that he is five percent better than average for his career. His career BA/OBP against is .268/.322, which is pretty high. Most of the pitchers you mentioned put up way more dominant performances than Moyer in a far shorter period of time. He’s got a case, but it’s borderline, and predicated mostly on longevity. I love the guy, and it would be great if he got in. But I just don’t see it happening.

]]> By: Geoffhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129861 Geoff Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:25:21 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129861 Moyer did a great job in relief last night. Pedro looked sharp too before the rain. Im going there tonight for Lidge bobblehead night and Cliff Lee vs. Dan Haren. Ought to be great. Moyer did a great job in relief last night. Pedro looked sharp too before the rain. Im going there tonight for Lidge bobblehead night and Cliff Lee vs. Dan Haren. Ought to be great.

]]> By: Joel Mhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129860 Joel M Wed, 19 Aug 2009 16:22:19 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129860 Congrats to a FINE job by both Pedro & Jaimie!Here is a thought....Why not use Jamie in relief of Pedro specifically; have Pedro pitch 5 or 6 innings and have Jamie come in and close it up (unless it is a save opportunity). Two different pitchers with two different styles seems to have worked beautifully last evening.Along those lines, how about we have Eyre and Lidge work out the 9th inning save opportunities together (with Lidge of course getting the check mark for the save). That also seemed to be a fine piece of management the other night.With all these pitchers, doing some committee work could make us very dominant going through towards the post season. Congrats to a FINE job by both Pedro & Jaimie!

Here is a thought….

Why not use Jamie in relief of Pedro specifically; have Pedro pitch 5 or 6 innings and have Jamie come in and close it up (unless it is a save opportunity). Two different pitchers with two different styles seems to have worked beautifully last evening.

Along those lines, how about we have Eyre and Lidge work out the 9th inning save opportunities together (with Lidge of course getting the check mark for the save). That also seemed to be a fine piece of management the other night.

With all these pitchers, doing some committee work could make us very dominant going through towards the post season.

]]> By: Chuckhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129852 Chuck Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:59:26 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129852 I'm assuming you now agree with me on Moyer, Original Chuck P, since you didn't respond to my analysis.. I’m assuming you now agree with me on Moyer, Original Chuck P, since you didn’t respond to my analysis..

]]> By: Philly Geoffhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129847 Philly Geoff Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:38:00 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129847 They are on Thursday Night Baseball on the MLB Network.Not sure about ESPN tonight, but they love the Sox. They are on Thursday Night Baseball on the MLB Network.

Not sure about ESPN tonight, but they love the Sox.

]]> By: The Original Chuck Phttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129839 The Original Chuck P Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:09:12 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129839 MLB Network MLB Network

]]> By: SOFTFOAMEARPLUGS.COMhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129835 SOFTFOAMEARPLUGS.COM Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:50:49 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129835 Original Chuck P - NATIONAL TV? TV Guide & ESPN website both say Red Sox @ Jays :-( Original Chuck P – NATIONAL TV? TV Guide & ESPN website both say Red Sox @ Jays :-(

]]> By: Chuckhttp://philliesnation.com/archives/2009/08/out-of-bullpen-moyer-dominates/comment-page-1/#comment-129829 Chuck Wed, 19 Aug 2009 14:37:00 +0000 http://www.philliesnation.com/?p=7669#comment-129829 ^ I only referenced starting pitchers and probably left a few guys out.I know he's been pitching for 20+ years....but 257 - 270 wins is a great feat....and he's got a ring to put on his resume, too. ^ I only referenced starting pitchers and probably left a few guys out.

I know he’s been pitching for 20+ years….but 257 – 270 wins is a great feat….and he’s got a ring to put on his resume, too.

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