Philadelphia and LA: A Tale of Two Sweatshops
Posted by Corey Seidman, Mon, October 05, 2009 01:30 PM | Comments: 67
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The Phillies entered the 2009 season with an opening-day payroll of $113,004,046, roughly $15M more than the previous team record set in 2008. $50.6M was spent on the starting lineup alone.
Seems like an obscene amount of money, doesn’t it? It is, let’s not kid ourselves. But according to the brilliant system at Fangraphs.com which converts a player’s WAR (Wins Above Replacement) to his value in dollars, the Phillies 1-8 hitters were actually worth $86.8 million dollars MORE than that, for a grand total of $137.4M.
What the hell am I talking about? It’s actually quite simple. I’ll give the step-by-step to those interested in how these numbers are calculated, or just give you all the option of skipping the next section and clicking here for an in-depth explanation.
Before delving into this, I beg of you not to be turned off by these numbers. This isn’t an overly complicated or highly sabermetrical article, this is simply a method of proving a point using quantifiable evidence rather than run-of-the-mill flowery prose.
And that point is: the Phillies were the most financially efficient National League team in 2009.
The Financial Value of Chase Utley
For starters, recognize that the term “replacement player” is shorthand for just about any AAA player who could be promoted to fill in at the major league level. Think Andy Tracy or Mike Cervenak. For a major league equivalent, look no further than Jeremy Hermida, whose awful ’09 season was equivalent to the value a replacement player would provide.
As an example, let’s use Chase Utley, a man (or baseball robot – you decide) who has been worth 77.4 runs more than a replacement player in 2009. This is easily converted to Wins by multiplying by 0.1, since 1 run is equivalent to approximately 1/10 of a win. So, Utley’s WAR is 7.7.
This tells us that if Utley would have been replaced by Tracy/Cervenak all season, the Phillies would have 7.7 fewer wins. Get it so far?
Now, to convert Utley’s Wins Above Replacement to an actual dollar amount for the 2009 season, we multiply that 7.7 by 4.5.
Why 4.5?
Because based on every single free-agent contract signed from 2006-2008, one Win Above Replacement has paid out $4.5 million on average. So if a player with a WAR of 1 averages $4.5M/year, Utley and his mammoth 7.7 WAR would/should be worth $34.2M per season if he were to enter free agency next season.
The beautiful thing about these dollar amounts is that they factor in offense, defense, positional factor (e.g. CF is a tougher position than LF), and park factor.
Utley’s $34.2M 2009 season signifies his brilliant work at the plate (best plate discipline of his career), on the basepaths (23-23 SB’s), and in the field (best zone-rating for an NL second baseman for the fifth consecutive year.)
Efficiency At Every Position
Below you will find each player’s actual 2009 base salary, followed by his true financial value according to this system.
Jimmy Rollins: $7.5M - ($11.5M)
Shane Victorino: $3.125M – ($14.2M)
Chase Utley: $11M – ($34.2M)
Ryan Howard: $15M – ($22.5M)
Raul Ibanez: $6.5M – ($18.4M)
Jayson Werth: $2M – ($20.5M)
Pedro Feliz: $5M – ($6M)
Carlos Ruiz: $475,000 – ($10.1M)
One of your first responses to this will likely be, “How did Carlos Ruiz have a $10 million season? Well, for one, the catcher position carries the biggest positional adjustment because it is considered the most difficult position to play.
Plus, Ruiz quietly put together a fine season for a backstop. He ranked 4th among National League catchers in both on-base percentage (.351) and slugging percentage (.424.) And in the field, he committed a major-league low 3 errors among catchers who caught at least 850 innings.
Compared to Other Teams
Of the four NL playoff teams, the Phillies starting lineup possessed, by far, the biggest difference in 2009 salary to 2009 financial value.
The team that came the closest was the Los Angeles Dodgers, who spent $57,432,000 on their 1-8 hitters (plus Juan Pierre since he saw ample playing time with Manny Ramirez’ suspension), and received $115.7M worth of value. The difference of $58,268,000 that this creates is nearly $30 million less than that of the Phillies.
What makes this discovery so staggering is that Matt Kemp ($467,000 in ’09) and James Loney ($465,000) were two of the Dodgers biggest run producers. Kemp was worth $24M more than he made, and Loney was worth almost $7M more, yet the Phillies still outdid LA significantly in the financial efficiency department.
The Collective Genius of Gillick and Amaro
Every Phillies hitter that received significant playing time outperformed their 2009 salary. This displays two things: great production from top to bottom, and a superb job of talent acquisition and contract negotiation by Ruben Amaro and former GM Pat Gillick.
The ability of Gillick to take a flyer on the oft-injured Werth and former Rule 5 pick Victorino, and watch BOTH turn into eventual starters on the NL All-Star team, is a true testament to his low-risk, high-reward philosophy. Being somewhat of an expert on Gillick’s career (my brother and I co-authored an analysis of Gillick for The Hardball Times 2009 Annual), I can tell you that these were two of the top five signings in his very long, successful career.
Gillick also did a great job of locking up Feliz for an economical 2 year/$8.5M deal, with a club option of $5M for 2010 that will most certainly be picked up. Feliz has had two splendid years with the glove and given the Phils more than they expected at the plate, having the two most disciplined years of his career in terms of BB/K ratio.
Gillick’s successor wasted no time making his own splash, as Amaro pulled off one of the best moves in recent memory with the signing of Ibanez. Raul outperformed his 2009 salary by almost 300%, a number that would be even greater had he not missed a month of the season.
What It All Means
As the saying goes, “it starts at the top.” This organization is living proof of that statement, as one of the most rewarding feelings of all is the knowledge that this team was built from the ground-up, with so many of its key components coming from an extremely underrated farm system.
The past few seasons have given Phillies fans much to smile about. Had someone told you in 2006 that over the next three seasons, your beloved Fightins would win a World Championship, three consecutive NL East titles, be awarded with another MVP, a Rookie of the Year pitching candidate, and an entire starting outfield in an All-Star game, you would have laughed. Prior to ’06, we all would have deemed ourselves lucky to be rewarded with ONE of those things.
But now, none of it even seems mildly surprising. We’ve become so accustomed to an exceptional level of play from a team that has finally made it out of the quicksand that bogged us all down for so many years, that we EXPECT it now.
And thanks to great decision-making and unparalleled player development, that winning culture is here to stay.
Who’s ready for another magical October?
Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder
How do ridiculous contracts to Adam Eaton, Geoff Jenkins, Tom Gordon, and the Freddy Garcia fiasco fit in with the “collective genius of Gillick and Amaro”? I’d even throw the Moyer contract extension in there. They’ve made some huge (and often expensive) mistakes.
As far as exercising the Feliz option for 2010, why not consider a free agent like Chone Figgins? This team has a serious problem with manufacturing runs and sits around waiting for the three-run HR a lot. When the team goes into a collective slump, they’re brutal to watch. Wouldn’t having a leadoff hitter like Figgins (.400 OBP) and moving Rollins (.300 OBP) to the seven slot add a dangerous dimension to this team? Pedro has done well here, but there are other options…
Posted: 01:49 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 305 Corey Seidman
Eaton was a huge swing-and-miss. Probably the worst of Gillick’s career.
Jenkins was a low-risk signing that didn’t hurt them too much, and was a smart move at the time with Jayson Werth still being a platoon player.
Garcia was acquired in a trade (in which the Phillies didn’t give up much) and only hurt their finances for one season.
Gordon wasn’t bad for his entire tenure here. He was actually very good for a 1 1/2 seasons.
Gillick made many great decisions compared to a few crappy ones. Another great move he made was not re-signing Aaron Rowand after a career year and the love-affair Phillies fans had with him. Think Brian Sabean wants to renege that contract he signed Rowand to?
Posted: 01:53 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 BS
Hmm, maybe this is a discussion better left for fangraphs, but I’ve always been skeptical about how realistic are those WAR values are. Especially once you get to the higher-end. While 1 WAR may be worth an average of $4.5MM, does that mean 2 WAR is worth $9MM, and 7.7 WAR is worth $34.2MM? Because as good as Chase is, if he was a free agent, he wouldn’t come close to getting $34MM/year on the market.
Is that the right way to interpret it?
Posted: 01:53 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 305 Corey Seidman
As for Figgins, I agree that he should be considered.
But I don’t know where he would fit into this lineup, because neither Jimmy nor Shane will move down in this order, and Figgins doesn’t add much if he’s batting seventh.
Plus, with Feliz’ great defense, bargain price, and the Phillies comfort level with him and ability to win, it’s a move that likely won’t be made.
Posted: 01:55 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 305 Corey Seidman
BS – Correct. Utley would never make $34.2 million a year. He would not sign a 3 yr/$100 million contract, especially with teams offering less in the recession.
The point you take away from this article shouldn’t be that Utley should be making 34 million dollars. It should be that every single Phillie was signed at a bargain price for the 2009 season, and all were worth more based on production.
And when you compare it to the rest of the league, the WAR of the Phillies 1-8 hitters compared to what they actually earned was unparalleled, even in the case of the Dodgers, a team chock full of young run producers under team control.
Posted: 01:58 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
I like the article… we’re certainly getting our money’s worth from these guys. Hopefully, we can keep them around for two or three more years and see them win a couple more titles. This franchise is making money hand over foot right now but at some point Amaro is going to have to start thinking ahead… he’ll have to decide which parts are essential and which parts are replaceable. Beyond 2010, it’s going to get really difficult to keep these guys focused on winning championships (rather than making money) and at some point, we’re going to be faced with some very tough decisions because Taylor and Brown appear to be the next big things… if priorities change from winning to making money, we won’t be able to afford to keep everyone and/or the front office won’t want to. For now, I feel really good about our chances this postseason because these guys are winners and winners find ways to win.
Posted: 02:18 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Mark B
I like the article also. The good moves made by Gillick and Amaro far out-weigh the crappy ones.
I get the sense that our payroll is about 1/2 of the Yankees payroll, although I don’t know that for sure. But after we beat them in the World Series, we’ll look even more “financially efficient.”
Posted: 02:41 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 John Russo
I really hope none of the players reads this or we will be financially screwed haha
Posted: 02:52 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Jeff Dowder
I’d argue that Garcia cost more than just money ($10M for his one Phillies win). Gavin Floyd has actually turned out to be a good major league pitcher. The amazing thing about that trade was that there were big time rumors in September 2006 that Garcia was damaged goods, yet Gillick traded for him anyway. As for Gordon, after the first half of his first season here he had close to a 5.00 ERA. So he really only had three good months out of his three year deal.
I’m not bashing Gillick – he brought us a championship that I was doubting that I’d ever see again. He did make a lot of miscalculations though. And he did inherit the core of the team from the previous regime.
I love Rollins, but he’s just not a leadoff hitter. Adding a high OBP hitter at leadoff and moving Jimmy to the seven slot would make this lineup so much better. Figgins becoming a FA at the same time that the Phillies can open up a spot there seems like a great opportunity.
Posted: 03:20 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
Here’s a little secret. Everyone always like to talk about the enormous number of strike outs the Phillies hitters rack up each season. But no one hardly ever talks about the Rockie’s s/o woes. But Colorado hitters s/o 17 times yesterday. 17 times! That’s after 12 whiffs on Sat.
1. Rockies hitters have s/o 1277 times. Good for 2nd in all of MLB. Only Arizona has struck out more often w/1298..
2. The Phillies has struck out 1155 times. That’s 9th in the NL/12th in MLB. The Phillies have less than 50 more s/os than Boston and Detroit. Yanks have 1,014 and LAA have 1,054.
3. The Rockies have walked more the Phils 660/589.
4. The Rockies team BA is .261 vs .258 for the Phillies
Pitching
1. Phillies team ERA is 4.16 vs Col 4.22
2. Teams hit .261 off COL pitching vs .265 against the Phillies
3. Opps hit 189 hrs off Phils pitching vs 141 opp hit off Rockies pitching(wonder what those number would be w/o the dehumid.)
Will De La Rosa start or sit for Game 3? Career vs Phillies 19 2/3 inns=21 ers
Posted: 03:28 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Karen
Using no data or anything, I definately would like to keep feliz. He does his job and has developed offensive and defensive skills that brought us where we are
Posted: 03:29 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Gillick made the moves that won the championship ..
Lidge, Moyer, Blanton, Werth …
Its not his fauly that we already had Hamels, Howard, Utley, Rollins ..
and after the Garcia trade, it was revealed that MOST trades don’t require the teams to review medical charts for the players they are about to obtain .. strange, but true
Posted: 03:29 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Colorado is the closest thing to the Phillies in baseball ..
pitching is nothing great, but its pretty good…. and they get pretty solid defense from key positions, and offense all thru the lineup
This isn’t a done-deal this series.. I’m expecting it go 5 games
Posted: 03:31 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Gillick made his fair share of bummers (Eaton was his worst, for sure)… but he understood that this team had the pieces to be special and did everything that he could to add necessary key free-agent components. Every move that he made was short-term and done with the intention of making this team better without hindering his ability to keep the core in tact in the future. He completed the puzzle by building around Howard, Utley and Rollins. He got lucky with Vic and Werth and those guys have exceeded all expectations but it has always been about Howard, Utley and Rollins. Credit is due to Ed Wade… Utley, Howard, Rollins, Hamels (over Floyd), Madson, Ruiz… they were all his guys.
Posted: 03:33 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Rich
I signed for 65K a year in 2008, but didn’t get a raise in 2009 due to the economy. I’m not complaining since people are out of work, but this isn’t a good article to post. They’re getting paid millions to play baseball and travel the world, with free medical, hot women, etc., so I don’t want to hear what kind of a “bargain” they are.
Posted: 03:40 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Dhall
Can Ryan Howard at least look like he cares about the fans? He wasn’t even looking at the fans yesterday when he was tossing softballs into the stands. That is exactly the reason he is not a fan favorite. There’ve been too many situations like that and believe me, people notice.
Posted: 03:43 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
I know it sounds nerdy, but check out the Rockies blogs on DenverPost.com/Rockies if you so choose….. That Rockies fan from yesterday is full of bleep…. Their fans know how tough it’s going to be to knock off the Defending Champs… There arrogance is superficial… Rockies had several days off before 2004 WS began. That’s their weak bleeping excuse. Last year the Phillies had 6 days off before the WS began. Col had more days off than we did(I forget the number) but you get the point… excuses, excuses, excuses…..
Posted: 03:43 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Don M
Ryan Howard is absolutely a fan favorite… he probably signs more autographs than any player over the course of the year.. and does charity work almost every single time they have an off-day
Rockies had won something like 28-of-30 before their 8 day layoff prior to the World Series in 2007 … that DEFINITELY hurt them..
should be a really good series!
Posted: 03:50 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
What are you talking?.. While the rest of the O struggled thru Sept. Howard was well, Howard of Septembers’ past. That was his 1st day off in a long time. And he was P___d that he wasn’t in the lineup. He probably had a late nite or something on Sat as he knew he wasn’t going to play no matter what…. He was probably a little tore up as a result… Ryan carried this team again… Don’t you ever write that kind of non-sense again. You are 10, 000, 000% dead wrong!
Posted: 03:50 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
excuses………… The Red Sox beat them down! The Rays had very little time in between the ALCS and Game 1 of the WS. What happened? Yup, another beat down. 4-1 and we should’ve swept’em. No excuses!
Posted: 03:53 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Woah there… let’s back the truck up with the COL/PHI comparisons.
Our lineup is much better 1-5… Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, Ibanez is better than the capable Gonzalez, Smith, Helton, Tulo, Hawpe… 6-8 Werth, Feliz, Ruiz is much better than Torrealba, Stewart, Barmes
The top of our rotation is better… Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ > Jimenez, Cook, Marquis, De la Rosa
Their bench is better… hands down… gotta try to put them away when we have a chance.
Their bullpen is better… not exactly lights out but better
We are better defensively and on the base paths.
We have more experience and we have home field advantage.
I’m not gonna lie… two early start times in Philadelphia is complete BS. They did this to us two years ago; we get two afternoon games in Philadelphia and then send it back to Colorado for a Saturday night game. You wanna know how to mitigate home field? Make the start time early enough so that a.) Working folks won’t be able to go b.) Tailgaters won’t have enough time to gear up c.) The white towels don’t have the same affect during the day.
Posted: 03:57 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Dhall
Uhhh, I never mentioned his performance there Harry. Read my post before commenting on it.
Posted: 04:13 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Dhall
That said, I think the Phils will get their act together and win this thing in 4 games. I don’t think it will be easy, but ultimately the Phillies southpaws will be too much for the Rockies lineup to handle. Let’s hope the bats come to life!
Posted: 04:16 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
I did read it. The whole retarded thing. I’m sorry that Mr. Ryan Howard didn’t do enough Ozzie Smith “back flips” for your personal entertainment. Maybe during the pre-game of Game 1 Howard should give you a call and ask you which magic tricks you would like him to preform. The fact that you didn’t comprehend my first respone to your BS leads me to believe that are a truly misguided soul…
Posted: 04:23 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P
Dhall… the reason he’s not a fan favorite is because a lot of fans don’t even realize the historical significance of what he’s doing and because he’s not a Philly guy; he’s not cut from the mold of Aaron Rowand or Chase Utley. First, he gets paid a ton of money and people don’t like that. Second, some people can’t get over the fact that he strikes out and they attribute that to him being lazy (forget the fact that he dropped 25 lbs in the offseason… he must be lazy because he swings at bad pitches). It’s nonsense… the guy is an ambassador of charity work and a nice person. He should be immortalized with a statue but he won’t be… he’ll probably walk in a few years and that would be a shame.
Posted: 04:26 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
I was reading an article from David Murphy and he mentions the possibility of Happ being our No. 2 starter for this series…and then he’d be able to pitch in relief in Game 4… very interesting idea.
“Happ pitches Game 2 – he would be on three days rest, but threw just 39 pitches Sunday – then is available to pitch out of the bullpen in Game 4 if he is needed. Happ usually throws his side session on the third day after he pitches. If he starts Game 2, his normal side day would be Sunday, which is Game 4. If that is an elimination game, and the Phillies need someone to pitch the seventh and eighth innings after Blanton leaves, you can bet Happ would be able to do it.”
Posted: 04:35 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 George
W.A.R. is about as big a bunch of hooey as I’ve ever seen. What front office in its right mind would ever replace a team with triple A talent? Even the crazies in Flushing traded for Francoer when their team hit the DL.
Tell me, if Utley had been suddenly and permanently maimed midyear, would Amaro have brought up someone from Lehigh valley, or would he have made a trade for another second baseman? Remember 2007, when a trade was made for Iguchi, when Utley was only to be out for a month or so. True, no one could probably replace him. But swapping some prospects could at least guarantee something better than an Iron Pig. A replacement player is usually a major leaguer, and has better production and costs more than any of these idiotic sabremetrics numbers can qualify.
Personally, I’m sick of all these inane new stats, “facts” and figures. Give me results: RBIs, runs, decent fielding, and WINS, which, thankfully, the Phils have gotten, money or no money.
Posted: 04:41 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 winks tidley
This is hogwash when you apply the numbers. A baseball player, no matter how good or great he may be, is NOT worth more than a dedicated teacher or physician. He is a man playing a boy’s game for entertainment of the masses. NO BALLPLAYER IS REALLY WORTH MORE THAN $2 MILLION A YEAR. Ballplayers today are grossly overpaid and everone knows it.
Posted: 04:43 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 hotstove
The phillies management has made some very good decsions and some bad but the good outway the poor. Gillick yes he swung and missed horribly on Eaton because the guys a moron and a bad pitcher but hes goine. Jenkins while it looks like a bad signing he did have a clutch hit on the biggest stage the world series and was a great team guy and he might have not been a great contributer he was a team first guy who took his benching well and didnt ruin the good of last year. Feliz contract and Ibanez and all the deals Amaro and Gillick did kept the phillies in contention till at least 2012 and with the prospects Amaro didnt deal tthere is a chance they can go on longer then that. Phillies will face hard contract challenges soon so we’ll will have to judge that later. But as of now the phillies are a top class orgainzation in the player mangement dept and hopefully that will continue.
Posted: 04:53 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
Yes Chuck P, Howard will only get his due long after he’s gone. Philly fans as a whole will only have themselves to blame. Wasn’t Michael Jack treated the same? Philly has a statue for a Hollywood Boxing Champ from New York, but not one for Smoking Joe? Truly sad.
Posted: 04:58 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Prince Fielder's Bat
hotstove — good comments and analysis. THe Phils are a fine organization, but the dollars overblowing their individual worth really sits hard with me. I love the Phils. I go to about ten games a year. I bring my three kids. IT IS E X P E N S I V E.
Posted: 05:00 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 305 Corey Seidman
To Rich and Winks Tidley – Whether or not baseball players should be paid millions of dollars has nothing to do with this. It’s a completely separate argument.
My mother has been an inner-city Philadelphia public school teacher since 1980, so if anyone knows how much teachers are worth, it’s me. But that has no bearing on the 1-8 hitters of the Phillies being worth more than they were paid this year, based on the history of baseball.
And George – ironic that you mention Iguchi, because for most of his career, Iguchi has been right on par with a “replacement player.” None of my argument had anything to do with “whether or not the Phillies would replace an injured Utley with a Triple A player.”
I merely used the example of a Triple A player to show what a replacement player is. Most teams cannot afford to make mid-season trades to replace hurt players. A perfect example would be half of the Mets roster. Guys like Nick Evans, Anderson Hernandez, etc…all replacement players.
Finally, George, if your last sentence about wanting to see RBI, runs, fielding, and wins is true…then you should be giddy about a stat like WAR, because it is one of very few stats that encompasses ALL OF THOSE THINGS.
I apologize you dont read about WAR in the newspaper or see Karl Ravech talk about it on ESPN, but that has nothing to do with its relevancy. Contrary to what you may believe, stats like WAR and RAR are heavy components of contract talks in this day and age, and nearly all 30 teams employ people who calculate these stats and trends.
If Utley was unable to go this season and Marcus Giles was forced to step in, and hit .255/.318/.398 with 8 homers and 51 RBI, for example, Utley’s WAR shows that the Phillies would have won 8 fewer games. They would have been 85-77, not 93-69.
Posted: 05:01 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 joedad
Michael Jack Schmidt was booed more in one night than Ryan Howard has been in his entire career. Towards the end of his career, the boobirds recognized that Schmidt was one of the best players in the history of the game and began to appreciate him. He is now the most celebrated former Phillie and receives the loudest ovations.
Howard is way more appreciated more than Schmidt was in his day and is not as good an “overall” player because Howard is a more likable person with historical power numbers.
Posted: 05:03 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
Manny, I like Lee/Happ/Hamels. The Rockies have knocked this guy (Cole) around. Twice this year… I really don’t want Cole pitching against them twice if it comes to that. Honestly I like Happ for game 1. It won’t happen, but for me then Lee should start game 1. I’ll gladly take my humble pie if Cole goes out there and shuts them down in Game 1.
Posted: 05:05 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
Lastly… Since Lee/Happ are both playoff newbies, maybe they’ll perform better in their 1st playoffs app at home…. Just a thought… It’ll be Cole since a potential gave five would give Cole 5 days rest. Cole would only get 4 if he goes for Game 2. Lee has a better track record for pitching on less than regular rest than Cole does. However, Charlie said that both Lee/Cole will both be available for a potential Game 5 if needed. If that’s Charlie Logic then why start Cole for Game 1 or than because of the exp factor, which can be a little exagg. at times…
Posted: 05:12 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
Thanks joedad? WTF is wrong with us! I remember going to games when Rolen was here… And for the life of me I couldn’t understand why the fans got on his case so much….I know he isn’t the most likely guy in the world, but it doesn’t make sense. It’s was like they were trying to show some him tough love like it was a tradition and they went way too far….
Posted: 05:25 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Griffin
Corey, excellent article. Informative and extremely well-written. Bravo.
Posted: 05:37 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 joedad
HK, fans are so much different now. Now that the Phils consistently win, there is much less negativity at the park (although I think the negative folks come here to post) I watched a St. Louis Cardinals game a few weeks ago and they were booing their team left and right. I remember Rolen calling that baseball heaven because the fans were so easy on players. It is bizarro world for fans.
Posted: 05:55 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Dhall
Nice response Harry Kalas…what are you like 5 years old? I’m talking about not looking at the fans during the lap around CBP at last years World Series parade, telling a young boy “I don’t have time” when he asks you to give him an autograph and not taking part in charity work and community service like many other members of the team. His performance this year cannot be questioned. He’s just about the only one who brought his bat with him to September and he made great strides on defense (throwing not included). Just asking for a little more love from the big man with the fans…that’s all.
Posted: 06:01 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
Two more cents… I just saw a stat about Cole. Cole pitches much better at nite than during the day. Cole is 0-6 with a 5.44 era in 9 daytime starts this yr.
Posted: 06:02 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Harry Kalas
No Dhall. Like Mr. Ryan Howard, I’m a grown a$$ man dude. Trust me. Awww, Ryan Howard didn’t gaze into your eyes during the victory lap at the Bank(that meant way more to you than the 3 bombs hit in the WS.)… What is the world coming to.? Stop making up bleep!..Even if he did can you blame him? They get all over Howard’s case during a slump, but Chase gets a free pass because Ryan isn’t “Philly enough? ” Sounds awfully similar to the fans reaction when Garcia was our starter. This board sees right thru your bs….Let it go, and move forward amicably….
Posted: 06:28 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Chris
“I’m a grown a$$ man dude?…lol.” That explains everything about Harry Kalas.
Posted: 06:45 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Phan in TN
you guys are making me chuckle now.
funny stuff
Posted: 06:46 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 Manny
Right now I’m leaning towards Lee as our No.1 starter for this series… in his career, he has been better with normal rest than with extra rest… plus he pitched great against the Rockies this season.
Posted: 08:35 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 PhreeholdDave
I don’t know how you came up with your figures. The team that wins the award for financial efficiency has to be the Florida Marlins. I think their payroll is less than half of the Phillies payroll. Yet, they were in contention for the division title. This was not a one year fluke either. They have fielded a competitive team for the past several years.
I agree that the salaries paid to Werth, Victorino and Ruiz are great bargains compared to their counterparts in the league although I question your values for virtually all of the players.
I think that salaries in the major leagues will go down next year. There are not that many teams that are willing to increase their payrolls. Pittsburgh and Cleveland have already engaged in salary dumps. The Mets have had to cut ticket prices and the Yankees have already cut ticket prices.
Posted: 08:36 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 jimmiesbolonypony
I think Cole Hamels is more worried about how much rest his arm gets then starting….. what does that boy do with his hands and arms to need so much rest????? Hmmmmm wahee whaee wahee….I do know he uses alot of tissues….Go Phillies :}
Posted: 08:58 PM on October 5, 2009
Posts: 0 mikeB
This is no doubt a hard article to swallow for people who are out of work and families who are struggling to make ends meet in this terrible economy.
Posted: 12:42 AM on October 6, 2009
Posts: 0 Dr. Baseball
“Literally every Phillie outperformed their 2009 salary”
There’s no way Lidge even came close to outperforming his 11.5 million dollar salary, so how could “literally every Phillie” have outperformed his salary?
Posted: 01:48 AM on October 6, 2009
Posts: 305 Corey Seidman
I meant every Phillie in the starting lineup, since this article did not mention anybody NOT in the starting lineup once. I figured that was self-explanatory since there was no other mention, but I can see how you would be confused. It’s been corrected.
Posted: 01:55 AM on October 6, 2009
Posts: 305 Corey Seidman
Phreehold Dave – The Marlins spent $20,465,000 on their starting lineup, without the pro-rated portion they paid Nick Johnson. This includes Cantu, Uggla, Ramirez, Bonifacio, Ross, Hermida, Coghlan, Maybin, Baker, and Paulino.
Those 10 players were worth $92.5M after the WAR conversion, with Hanley being worth 33.4M himself. Guys like Maybin and Hermida had down years, Bonifacio had NEGATIVE value because of a terrible OBP and bad defense, and Cantu’s difference was almost as insignificant as that of Pedro Feliz.
The $72M difference in those 10 hitters was still 13 million less than the Phillies, and once again, this article focused solely on offense. Pitching staffs were not included.
Posted: 02:06 AM on October 6, 2009