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Big Names Top Offseason Wishlist

Posted by Corey Seidman, Mon, November 09, 2009 02:05 AM | Comments: 120
Analysis, Arbitration, Payroll, Posts

Coming up two wins shy of another World Championship was, indeed, a tough pill to swallow, but the Phillies were simply the second best team in 2009. All of the ugly flaws of this team made their way to the surface in the World Series, whether it be a lack of situational hitting, a decrepit bench, or the continued struggles of ’08 heroes and ’09 goats, Cole Hamels and Brad Lidge.

Brian Cashman, along with whichever Steinbrenner is currently running the Yankees, spent close to $210 million on the 2009 payroll to limit weaknesses, field a near-perfect team, and win a World Series. Congratulations to the two men and their quarter-billion dollar payroll. The money was thrown around properly and resulted in celebration, and a flustered Mark Teixeira running around the field exclaiming, “We did it!” as if this was a bunch of rag-tag players nobody believed in. To that, I “LOL.”

Room for Improvement

But what I took from the World Series is that, as incredible as the Phillies were this past season, there were still many aspects of this club that needed, and will need, improvement. It’s truly amazing to me that I even sit here writing this piece, as a fan and analyst of a team that had a better year than 28 other clubs, all of which were surely envious of the 2009 Philadelphia Phillies.

Alas, here we are, entering a great time of the year – the offseason. Some call it the “hot stove,” although I don’t really understand why. It’s one of those unexplainable things, you know, like the nickname “Melky” being derived from Eudernyi Cabrera.

The Phillies have the chance this offseason to transform into a near-perfect team. With two consecutive World Series appearances, exponential growth in local and national popularity, and some hefty contracts coming off the books in 2010, Ruben Amaro will have some serious cash to spend in the coming months. If spent properly, there is no reason the Phillies cannot wrap up the NL East early, sweep through the playoffs, and reclaim their rightful trophy from the feminine hands of Johnny Damon and company.

Off the Books

First, let’s take a look at which contracts come off the books next season.

  • Brett Myers is gone, which is sad in some ways, but necessary in others. The long-time Phillie understood how to endure the expectations and tough-love from Philly fans, probably because he was such a blue-collar guy, himself. I, like all of you I’m sure, wish Myers all the best in his future endeavors, but am glad to see his $12M salary erased from the Phillies payroll.
  • Also subtracted from the payroll are the $8,833,333 the Phillies were still paying to Adam Eaton, and $6.75M to Geoff Jenkins. Due to buyout provisions, the Phils are still on the hook with both players in 2010, but only for a combined $1.75M.
  • Matt Stairs made $1M in 2009, but due to declining power and usefulness, he will only receive a minor-league contract from the Phillies next year, if he receives one at all.

Quick math shows that this is $26,833,333 coming off the books in 2010. The Phillies opening day payroll in ’09 was $113M, fifteen million dollars more than the 2008 opening day payroll. But, according to Mat Swartz, a Phillies fan and writer for Baseball Prospectus with a doctorate in economics from Penn, the Phillies have shown in recent years that they value marginal wins over strict payroll trends.

What this means is, under Pat Gillick and Ruben Amaro, the team has shown a willingness to add players who can contribute a win or two (think Kyle Lohse, Joe Blanton, etc.), because the difference of winning 90 games instead of 88 will also boost regular season AND playoff revenue, making the added contracts well worth the price of admission.

For this reason, it is not unrealistic to expect the Phillies to spend MORE in 2010 than they did in 2009. A payroll between $125M and $135M is, by no means, unreasonable.

Plenty of Raises

Just so we’re all on the same page at this point, let’s recognize that the subtraction of $27M from the contracts of Myers, Eaton, Jenkins, and Stairs would leave the 2010 payroll at $86M. But, we then have to factor in the raises that certain players have that will increase the ’10 payroll.

  • Jayson Werth made $2.5M in 2009, and will make $7.5M in 2010. He’s a steal at both prices.
  • Ryan Howard goes up from $15M to $19M, once again, a steal at both prices.
  • Chase Utley goes from $11.3 million to $15.3 million.
  • Raul Ibanez goes from $7.167M to $12.167M.
  • Cole Hamels’ contract is raised from $4.35M to $6.65M.
  • Ryan Madson goes from $2.33M to $4.83M.
  • Finally, Greg Dobbs goes from $1.15M to $1.35M.

All of these raises equal a $23 million payroll increase from 2009 to 2010. When subtracting the $27M from Myers, Eaton, Jenkins, and Stairs, then adding the raises, as well as the $8M option that was just excercised on Cliff Lee’s contract, the 2010 payroll is $108M as of today.

The Arbitration Guys

However, this leaves out the contract statuses of Shane Victorino, Carlos Ruiz, Joe Blanton, Clay Condrey, and Chad Durbin, all of whom are subject to arbitration this offseason. Last year, the Phillies successfully avoided arbitration with guys like Hamels, Howard, Madson, Blanton, etc. by working out deals prior to the hearings.

The following are merely educated guesses based on what players made in 2009, what they will be worth next year, and Ruben Amaro’s preference toward locking guys up during several arbitrations years.

  • Shane Victorino will likely be signed to a deal similar to that of Jayson Werth (2 yr/$10M.) I could see Victorino getting a two-year deal as well, between $8-10 million. So, his 2010 salary will be in the $4-5M range.
  • Carlos Ruiz will also likely be signed to a two-year deal, totaling $6M. Can you believe he made $475,000 in ’09?!
  • Joe Blanton made $5.475M in ’09, he will probably settle for around $6.5 in 2010.
  • The Phillies will likely only keep Chad Durbin OR Clay Condrey, not both. Based on the fact that Durbin would command at least $2.25M next season, while Condrey would make $1M or less, Condrey looks like the more efficient, safer choice.

These theoretical raises to Victorino, Ruiz, Blanton, and Condrey would add approximately $15M to the 2010 payroll, making it $123M.

The Undecideds

This leaves three guys – Chan Ho Park, Scott Eyre, and Pedro Feliz. The Phillies have already contacted Scott Boras about re-signing Park, which, if accomplished, would be a deal worth about $3.5M. Eyre has said that he is undecided, but if he returns, it will be with the Phillies. I’m guessing that he comes back after a stellar 2009. He’ll match his 2009 earnings, making $2M or slightly more.

The decision to decline Feliz’ club option was made over the weekend. If the Phillies had exercised his option, he would have made $5M; the buyout costs just $500,000. Based on a bad offensive second half and a lack of postseason production, I think Ruben Amaro will explore other options at third base. Feliz has been a great defender at the hot corner, but the Phillies could greatly improve their offense by signing or acquiring a better offensive third baseman who will get rid of the “black hole,” as my brother calls it, in the seven-spot.

The Wishlist

Now that the boring part is over, let’s take a look at potential upgrades the Phillies could make. If the contract issues are worked out similar to my hypotheses, the 2010 payroll would be around $125M, before any additions are made. Some tinkering needs to be done, and I believe Ruben Amaro is the right man for the job.

Roy Halladay

You thought you were done seeing his name on this site? Think again. The Blue Jays STILL need to rid themselves of Halladay while he still has some value, and this winter is the time to do it. The pricetag on Halladay will not be as high as it was several months ago, because now the team that acquires him will only have his services for one season. He is a free agent after 2010, a season in which he is scheduled to make $15.75M.

The idea of trading for Halladay is not as unrealistic as you may think. He would be a MUCH better option than John Lackey, the top pitcher on the market that every Phillies writer is seemingly already calling for. Why? Because, A) he is undoubtedly better, and B) he’ll be cheaper.

Lackey likely won’t earn $15.75M or more in 2010, but he will receive a five or six year contract, similar to the value of what A.J. Burnett made. It would be unwise for a team like the Phillies to commit five or six years to a pitcher like Lackey, who will likely not be worth the money several years down the road.

New Blue Jays GM Alex Anthopolous has subtly stated that the Halladay talks will only involve a few teams, because many do not have the finances or young talent to acquire the former Cy Young winner. The Phillies are one of those few teams.

What would it take to get Halladay? After consulting with several other prominent baseball writers, the consensus seems to be J.A. Happ, either Dominic Brown or Michael Taylor, and a fringe prospect. This probably sounds similar to the deal that was once on the table, but keep in mind that Kyle Drabek would stay put, as would either Brown or Taylor.

To those thinking that Happ and Brown/Taylor is still too high a price to pay for one season of Roy Halladay, let’s take a look at a little bit of logic. Having an outfield of Ibanez, Victorino, and Werth means you do not need two great outfield prospects, you only need one, at most. If Brown/Taylor gets traded to Toronto and becomes an all-star, very well. That doesn’t change the fact that both face major roadblocks.

Losing a very good rookie like Happ would be hard, but is there any doubt whatsoever that Halladay is a massive upgrade over Happ? Sure, Halladay would only be around for one year while Happ could be for five, but isn’t the goal to win now, while this nucleus is in its prime and still intact?

At first glance, the notion of trading for Halladay may seem unrealistic, but due to his impending free agency, he is actually a relatively cheap acquisition. Expect the Phillies to once again make a serious push for him.

Adrian Beltre

For a while, I was calling for Chone Figgins. During Game Six of the World Series, I wrote on the Phillies Nation twitter that I would be the campaign manager for “Figgins to Philadelphia 2010.” But Figgins is coming off of a career year, will likely carry a price tag greater than his actual worth, and would realistically be a weird fit with the Phillies. He is more of a leadoff batter than a seventh hitter, so either he, Jimmy Rollins, or Shane Victorino would have to drop in the order. It wouldn’t be an ideal situation.

Adrian Beltre, on the other hand, would be a perfect fit in Philadelphia. He is an incredible defensive third baseman, ranking in the top three in all of baseball in Ultimate Zone Rating in five of the past six seasons. Not only would there be no dropoff in the field from Pedro Feliz to Beltre, there would actually be an improvement. With the exception of 2007, Beltre has finished with better defensive metrics than Feliz in every season since 2004.

Beltre is also a much better hitter than Feliz. Discounting this past season, in which Beltre was limited to 111 games due to injury, the former Mariner and Dodger has compiled a slugging percentage above league-average every year since 2001, hit 25 or more homers four times, and better than 35 doubles three times.

Beltre’s clear flaw is plate discipline, but he represents an upgrade over Feliz in THAT category, too. Beltre’s career .325 on-base percentage is not ideal, but it is a massive improvement over Feliz’ unbelievably low .293 OBP.

Since Beltre is coming off a down, injury-riddled season, he will be much less expensive than Figgins. At age 30, with better speed, power, plate vision, and defense than Feliz, Beltre would be a very nice addition to the Phillies.

J.J. Putz

Putz was awful for the Mets in 2009, so it was no surprise when New York declined his $9M option for 2010. Despite never finding a niche with the Mets and missing half the season with an elbow injury, Putz would be a good low-risk, high-reward signing.

The flame-throwing righty would serve as an insurance policy to Brad Lidge, should Lidge struggle again. Putz’ presence would also allow Ryan Madson to remain the setup man next season, even in the event of continued scuffling from Lidge. As we saw this past season, taking Madson out of his eighth inning role creates a domino effect where every reliever must begin pitching outside his comfort zone. Adding Putz would aid this potential problem.

Since so much uncertainty surrounds the former Mariners closer, Putz will likely command an incentive-laden contract. If he meets many of the incentives drawn out in his contract, you will know that he’s done his job as a late-inning reliever. Signing Putz and letting Durbin or Condrey walk would significantly improve the bullpen.

Yorvit Torrealba

Torrealba is the prototypical backup catcher: he is a powerful right-handed hitter who can be very dangerous when in the midst of a hot streak, but below average defense subtracts some of his value. He would be the ideal understudy to Carlos Ruiz, because he could step in several days a week and actually provide some offense, unlike Chris Coste and Paul Bako in 2009.

Torrealba would also add another semi-dangerous bat to the Phillies thin bench, which was an evident weakness all season.

Nomar Garciaparra/Jason Giambi

I list these two former superstars because the Phillies need experienced offensive threats on the bench. Even at age 36, Garciaparra is still a very good right-handed bat off the bench, and could be had for a reasonable price. He can play first, third, and even shortstop, if necessary.

Should the Phillies choose not to re-sign Matt Stairs, Giambi would be an adequate replacement. Despite our collective affection for Stairs, it should not be overlooked that everything that Stairs does, Giambi does better. The one thing Stairs did do well in 2009 was work deep counts and take free passes, but plate discipline is also Giambi’s strong suit.

Jerry Hairston, Jr.

Hairston is a utility man that can play the infield and outfield. Due to his superior speed and offensive ability, Hairston would be a massive upgrade over Eric Bruntlett. He is also a decent option as a pinch-runner or late-inning defensive replacement.

If the Phillies cannot land Hairston, other upgrades over Bruntlett include: Adam Kennedy, Mark Loretta, Wilson Betemit, and every other living human.

LOOGY

Ruben Amaro should pursue a Joe Beimel-type just in case Eyre retires and/or J.C. Romero fails to recapture his mojo from seasons past. Guys like Beimel can be signed to very cheap contracts, so there should be no excuse to entering next season with few options outside of Romero, Eyre, and guys like Sergio Escalona.

Avatar of Corey Seidman

About Corey Seidman

Corey Seidman has written 210 articles on Phillies Nation.

Corey is Analysis Editor for Phillies Nation and also writes for CSNPhilly.com.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Mike Schmidt

    If the 2009 Yankees are so much better than the 2009 Phillies then A-Rod would have stayed at 2nd base, and Girardi would have stayed in the dugout. Why? Because they are better, and no matter what the call is the Yankees will win anyway.

    The 2009 Yankees are not better than the 2009 Phillies, and the reactions of A-Rod and Girardi after the controversal call proves that.

    The Philadelphia Phillies are the best team in baseball.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew

    Is Thome off the books this year or was he off after 2008? I feel like he was a “Phillie” forever…

     
  • Posts: 0 Scott Kimbel

    What about a utility player with some pop in his bat? Remember the 2007 divisional series against the Rockies, the player that sealed the deal for them was Jeff Baker. He’s since been traded to Chicago and continues to put up pretty good numbers and can play outfield or the left side of the infield. Is there any interest in him?

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike in 314

    Very well written. I agree with almost all of your points. Just a general thought, though, and you certainly aren’t the first to posit the view: The Yankees fielded a $210M team which helped them get to the World Series. But the players who beat the Phillies weren’t the $80M signed this offseason, for the most part. They were stalwarts like Jeter, Rivera, and Pettitte, plus a couple of the former signings (A-Rod, Matsui and Damon). I think people overplay the Sabathaia, Burnett and Texiera signings. Good blog, though. I enjoyed it.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I believe Thome was off the books after the 2008 season. Corey, you must have been reading my posts lately. I also identified Beltre,Halladay, Putz and Torrealba. Personally I think Lackey is not worth whatever money he is going to get. I hope the Phillies don’t go after him, they just got rid of a head case, they don’t need another one. You want to talk about a guy who stares down his defense when they don’t make a play, Lackey has made it an art form.

    I agree, that if it costs us Happ, Brown/Taylor and someone else for Halladay I make the deal and I am thrilled about it. Let’s Halladay walk and you get two draft picks out of the deal. Toronto will be awful so they will be high picks too. I like Happ, a lot but Happ is not the guy that can win you a series. Halladay is and by the time Happ’s contract gets to be bigger, the other core players of this team will be in their decline. You have to try and win now.

    I would also consider DeRosa as a super sub, he can play everywhere but CF, P and C.

    Giambi would be a nice addition as someone who could play 1B every so often, as well as DH during Inter League play and he can work a count.

    I’d love to see the Phillies sign Putz, he was pretty darn good as a closer in Seattle.

    F.A’s can’t sign until November 15th I believe?

    Also, Lee’s option was for 9mil, not 8.

     
  • Posts: 0 Evan

    Both Figgins and Beltre would be good upgrades at 3rd. I don’t think Figgins is a bad idea if he can be signed for a fair price. He’s going to get on base a lot and he is fast. Jimmy absolutely does not belong in the 1 spot of the order. He doesn’t get on base enough to leadoff and that adds up to a lot of runs that aren’t going to be scored. He can hit for power too, so it makes a lot of sense for Jroll to be hitting with guys on base.

    As for Halladay, nobody is going to complain about any prospects the Phils give up to get him when the season opens and the first three starters are Lee, Halladay, and Hamels. The fans might complain later if things don’t work out, but not for awhile.

    The pen is probably the worst mess for 2010. Put isn’t the answer. he
    s on the decline. He was playing hurt last year but he’s definitely a question mark this year. I wonder if any of the minor league talent that we saw briefly in 09 will be a big part of the pen next year. Escalona and Bastardo come immediately to mind. How long will Brad Lidge’s leash be in 2010 and will someone be there to take his place so the Phils don’t end up blowing saves for an entire season?

     
  • Posts: 0 JR

    Beltre had an OPS of .683 last year, and .779 career.
    Feliz had an OPS of . 694 last year, and .715 career.

    Let’s not forget that Feliz carried a .300+ BA for a bit this summer, and was the Phils leading hitter w/RISP for much of the year.

    I don’t see Beltre as an offensive upgrade by any means. He’s a cost effective compromise over Figgins. I’d rather have Figgins switch hitting in the 7 hole. (Figgins OPS of .789 last year, .751 career).

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    How is Beltre not an offensive upgrade? More homers, more rbi, higher OPS, high OBP, higher career batting average than Feliz. Oh and he has won 2 gold gloves and is 4 years younger.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Great, great article. JJ Putz (forgot about that guy) would be neat. Personally, I think Feliz and Beltre is a wash. Jerry Hairston Jr: great idea. Basically, I agree with nearly everything, except for the Roy Halladay trade. We have Lee and Hamels. Lee is an ace, no doubt about it. And Hamels has the potential and the talent (and the history, let’s not forget) to be an ace, too.

    I’m very, very comfortable with our rotation as it is. Lee and an improved Hamels is a fantastic 1-2 punch (arguably the best one in the league), followed by Blanton and Happ (those two are much, much better than your typical 3-4 starters). That being said, I understand the logic for a Halladay trade (it makes a lot of sense to give up one of your OF prospects)… but I just wouldn’t pull the trigger. Our core is still relatively young, and our window for another championship goes well beyond next season.

     
  • Posts: 0 David

    Good article. Looks like you did your homework. I don’t think Putz will be a cheap sign though. I’d expect someone to give him a shot at closer with a 3-4 year deal, so long as his injuries are healed. Id be shocked if Vic signed for a 2 year 10 contract. He is a top CF and will want to get paid like it (Aaron Rowand anyone). But otherwise, I thought you were pretty accurate with your assesments.

    @Mike Schmidt, the yankees were the best team in baseball this year by every measure. They won the most games in the toughest division, in the best league in baseball. Im a NL guy, but theres a reason the NL loses every all star game every year. The AL is just better and so are the Yanks this year. Being a sore loser about it just makes phils fans look like babies.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Hamels and Lee are a great 1-2 if Hamels is back to his 08 form but they need a solid right handed pitcher. Blanton is good, and consistent but he is not a guy that is going to go out and end a losing streak. Halladay is that guy, he is a stopper. If you can add him for guys that are not going to make you significantly better by having them, then why wouldn’t you want to trade for him?

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Wouldn’t be shocked to see the Phillies go after Valverde, head case and all.

    I think Beltre will end up with the Twins, they have wanted him for a while and after the added Hardy they are obviously showing they want to improve their offense.

     
  • Posts: 0 Keith E

    Chooch better get a BIG raise$$$. 450K is more than stealing! The Phils owe him $6mil in back pay alone!
    This year’s season ended because our best players were not our best players. Talent has nothing to do with not repeating as WFC. Lack of production from our most talented players was the problem. If we give Pedro some run support in game 2 and Hamels’ head is somewhere other than in the clouds in game 3 things are very different. We have the team to beat. They under-achieved in the WS. I would take this team as it was at the end of the season and run them out there in April and not be worried, they are that good in my prejudiced eyes.
    GO PHILS!!!

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Disregard Spankee…

    I’m ok either way with Feliz- 80+ RBI is good enough for me out of the 7 hole. The guy came up with some pretty big clutch hits for us. I would call this an average year for Feliz… maybe he’s on the decline… I like him but I could live with a solid defensive third basemen with more pop like Beltre ASSUMING he’s going to fit in with this team. I trust Ibanez and Gillick to be able to give us a solid assessment of the guy.

    I don’t see how we could afford Roy Halladay AND a third basemen if the 2010 payroll with raises ex-Feliz starts out at $125 million… as much as I would like to have Halladay, I don’t see it happening. If there’s any way that it can be done, it should be done but we need a third baseman and probably bullpen help before we need Roy Halladay.

    No Figgins, please… he’s not a good fit here. He’s got some versatility but he’s inconsistent. He also seems to be a little bit weak (not sure how he would fit in on the east coast).

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Exactly, Original.

    Halladay, Lee, Hamels… that’s simply over the top… an unnecessary (and very expensive) risk which puts too much pressure on winning it all in only one year (2010). Chances are that both Lee AND Halladay, under that scenario, would be gone after 2010. I’d rather see the Phillies try to sign Lee for an extra year instead… so we can have Lee + Hamels for 2010 and 2011, at least.

     
  • Posts: 0 Maverick

    The problem with Feliz is the Postseason. He’s a poor mans AROD.

    In 108 Career Post Season AB’s he has 22 Hits and 21 Strike Outs! with only 9 RBI’s! And his BA is a solid .204

    I can only imagine how many runners he has left on base..

     
  • Posts: 0 TODDFROMFAIRMOUNT

    I really cant wait to see the final skankee payroll number after bonuses and luxury payoffs. Laughable. I’m gonna miss Feliz, I always loved that security a 3B.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Manny are you an Eagles fan? I have a point to the question.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Plus the Yankees will sign Lackey so add his 15 mil to their payroll. But again, baseball allows for it.

     
  • Posts: 0 Maverick

    ED i think i know where your going with that

     
  • Posts: 0 dudley monk

    I love this arm-chair managing stuff. So many options here that I never thought of, and they really do make sense. However, I do think getting Roy Halladay for Happ and a prized minor leaguer for just one year is scary.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I agree monk, its scary but I think its a calculated risk. If the Phillies don’t make the move I certainly wouldn’t curse them for it. It’s a move I think they should make, I don’t know that its one they have to make. Though I think it might be.

     
  • Posts: 0 A Train

    If the Phils get Halliday, I could play 3rd base and they’d win 95 games. IMO…if the team goes into 2010 with Lee, Hamels, Happ, Blanton and Kendrick/Moyer/Carpenter/etc. they will win the NL East and probably make it to the WS. This year proved, however, you need 2 STUDS to win the WS. Lee is a stud. Hamels MAY be a stud. Blanton and Happ are not studs. If Ruben is really serious about winning in 2010, he will go after Halliday. If he doesn’t, he’s making pitching moves with his fingers crossed.

    It sure was nice seeing a ground ball to 3b these last couple of years and know it was going to end up at Ryan Howard’s chest. Pedro was very good and very steady. That said, Beltre is great at 3b and would be an upgrade to Pedro. Don’t know much about his injuries, though. Figgins would also be an upgrade (more offensively than defensively). I would hope he would lead off and move Jimmy to 7 where he could spark the bottom of the order.

    I like some of the ideas listed in the post. The bench improvements can’t be underestimated. If Chase or Jimmy got hurt this past year, we had NO viable replacement. Injuries to either of those 2 could cost us a lot of games.

    I like Hairston a lot. I like Nomar (but I read he wants to stay on the left coast) but I don’t like Giambi.

    I’ve been hoping the Phils land G Atkins for a while now. He can play most IF positions as well as LF and would be a great RH bat.

    Don’t forget about Scott Matheson. He should help out in the BP next year. He’s been very good since coming back from surgery.

    If the payroll gets too high, I would consider moving Raul. I love the way he plays the game. But since we have Ben F. and Taylor, he is the guy making a lot of money (11 mil?) who can be replaced without losing too much.

    My kids are making their Christmas lists. I guess I should start my own.

    Let’s see…Roy Halliday…Adrian Beltre…Jerry Hairston…

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    Why is Durbin going to make $2.25 Million next year??

     
  • Posts: 0 NickFromGermantown

    Honestly, the Phils need more help in the bullpen than they do with starting pitching. Sure, getting Halladay would be a temporary coup, but what it comes down to is that the players on this team still have a lot of great seasons left. This team is more akin to the 1978 Phillies than the 1983 Phillies. There’s no reason to panic and sell the future so we can get one year out of Halladay. Sure, he’s a great pitcher, but so long as Hamels rights his ship and Happ doesn’t have terrible sophomore slump, we are set up very well going forward with starting pitching.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jesus

    Anyone willing to take a flyer on Harden? I know he is an injury risk but would like to take a chance on him. 6mill with incentives for 1yr? Would be perfect to follow Lee because he is only good for 6 innings most of the time so the pen should be rested after Lee’s starts. I like the Putz, Beltre and Giambi ideas a lot. For a utility player how about going after Bobby Crosby? Can rest pretty much everyone in the IF and will give us somewhat of a RH bench bat other than Francisco. I don’t want Torrealba, I may be alone but don’t mind Bako as a backup. Could rest Chooch against tough righties.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Hey, all I’m saying is bullpen, 3B, and bench really are our priorities. Halladay would be awesome. But think of the implications: after one season, we’ll be left with no Lee (cause instead of giving him a 2011 deal we had to spend that money in Halladay for 2010), and no Halladay…. plus no Happ (cause you just traded the guy as well).

    The more I think about the Halladay thing, the less sense it makes.

    I feel like some here are becoming too spoiled…

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    I doubt Bako is under contract for next season?? I think he signed a one-year minor league contract with us … I would be surprised if he comes back for a second year.. but maybe they need the cheapest available option, and if he’s the winner.. no complaints out of me.. he did a nice job last year

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    Don’t look now, but this team is getting a little long in the tooth. Vic is the youngest starting position player at 29. I think the Phils “as is” have realistic potential for a few more seasons of October baseball, but then it is going to get old all at the same time. I expect players to age the same way they did in the pre-steroid era, peak at 30-32, then go down – some faster than others.

    Halliday may sign for 3 years – wouldn’t trade for him unless an extention could be worked out. As much as I like Victorino, he’s where he’s going to be – excellent fielder, good speed (but not a great basestealer), completely incapable of situational hitting. If possible, package him with Happ and a lower level prospect for Roy, bring up Taylor to right, Werth to center. Then find whomever for a fifth starter. Ibanez’s contract is likely trade prohibitive, which isn’t a bad thing, but he’s here for another two years.
    Pedro is cheap at 3rd for what he brings, esp if it can be negotiated down a bit. Start looking for a younger replacement for 2011 or 12 (don’t think Beltre or Figgins is a long term answer). Then get a utility infielder with some pop who can play the middle infield (Derosa). Dobbs had an off year, but expect more out of him next year, spell Howard and Feliz more to get a few at bats and give them a break. Then Fransisco and a left handed OF for the bench.

    Somebody mentioned this year’s team is more like 78 than 83 – I disagree. Last year’s team is more like 80. If we stand pat with the starting 8, we have the potential to repeat the late 80s.

     
  • Posts: 0 Don M

    If they traded for Halladay.. they would first need to make sure that either Halladay or Lee signs an extension past this season ..

    Since it would take either Happ or Drabek to get him.. you would lose

    Drabek and Lee before the start of the 2011 season

    in return you would still have Halladay.. but he’ll become less effective as the years go on .. he is in the tail-end of his prime .. not past it, but he’s been in his prime for the past few seasons

    I don’t know what type of pitcher Happ really is .. and for a great return, I wouldn’t mind moving him .. but I fully expect Hamels to return to form after getting his arm rested this offseason.. and the thought of Lee, Hamels, Blanton, Happ, Drabek is awesome

     
  • Posts: 0 Georgie

    Corey, are you saying you don’t remember the good old days when men (the little women were barefoot and pregnant) used to hang out at the corner store and sit around the coal stove in the winter and talk about baseball?

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Don M is absolutely correct. The only way the Phillies trade for Halladay is if they can get him or Lee to sign past 2010. But just because you trade for Halladay doesn’t mean you can’t afford to resign Lee. What Halladay makes in 2010 has nothing to do with what they can offer Lee in 2011. It is going to take at minimum 50 – 60 mil over 3 years to resign Lee.

    I can’t see Toronto seriously asking for Drabek, not with Halladay being a one year rental. Happ, Taylor/Brown and another mid level pitching prospect will get it done. That is of course just my feeling. I have nothing to actually back that up.

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    While bullpen performance is critical, planning for it is overrated. With the exception of closer, there is really no way to tell how the group is going to perform. The Phils had one of the best in 2008, one of the worst in 2009. Even the Yankees, who had a great regular season pen, had a terrible post season one.

    The best weapon for your bullpen is to limit the opportunities for the other team to see the guys – starters going 7 +. Lee and Halliday would help the bullpen performance far more than Putz.

     
  • Posts: 0 Robbi p

    Two words Dan Uggla at Third! He’s Younger then Beltre, he’s a big righty bat and he’s an old school player!

    I want a phillies Uggla Jersey hahaa!!!!

    Rob president of Bring Uggla to Philly committee

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Excellent article.

    1. IF you can get Halladay for Happ, Taylor and a fringe prospect, do it ASAP just make sure he signs an extension(which I think he would). the Phils would have a shot with Lee, Halladay and Hamels vs Sabathia, Burnett and Lackey.

    2. Sign Soriano or Valverde. Putz is an interesting option, but the Phils need insurance for Lidge.

    3. If Derosa can’t play every day as Pat suggests he’d be great as an uber utility guy as suggested.

    4. Since I just spent all the extra money, resign Feliz for 3-3.5 million.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    FYI, in his career Roy Hallday has pitched only 6 games on 3 days rest. However 27 KOs, 1 BB with a opponent BA of .238. In other words he could pitch games 1, 4 and 7, Lee 2 and 5, Cole 3 and 6. Pretty darn formidable.

     
  • Posts: 0 beta sigma shag

    IMO you do not trade Happ for 1 year of anybody. Like I said all of last year with Halliday, if you can resign him for3 years you maybe make the trade. I feel Hamels will be back in form next year, but that is the question you have. If he does than Lee Hamels is a great 1-1a punch to have. I also would like to know how they feel about some of the Minor league guys helping in the pen. Can Bastardo be a big time reliever. I would hate to trade 3 to 5 years of Happ for one year of Halladay.
    I posted it earlier but will say it again. Jimmy will be your lead off hitter next year, and I think they will re sign Peter Happy to $3-4 million next year, with team option for 2011.
    Definatly need utility player to replace Bruntlett, even though I am one of few people on here that likes the guy. Delrosa would be nice. I liked Harrington Jr last year and think he would be a good fit.
    And why isn’t anyone on here afraid Beltre and his injuries, Pedro has only missed a handfull of games in the past 3 years due to injury. And he just came back for surgery, and played alot this past season. I want Peter Happy back.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Sorry, bad data on my Halladay post. lee and Hamels cannot go on three days rest so a 4th pitcher is needed.

     
  • Posts: 0 Jeff of Nova

    Robbi you are on crack

    I think going after Halladay is wise, cause when do you remember one of the big name BP names out there other than a closer really make a splash as advertised. Limit the amount innings your bullpen has to pitch that makes it easier to be effective all year.

    Torre was unable to win WS in his last years in NY, cause he had marginal starters and his BP was overworked, much like ours this year

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Beta, I have high hopes for Scott Mathiason. At AA Reading

    19.1 innings, 10 hits, 7bb 17 kos, . 97-98 mph fastball. Went more than 1 innings several times.

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    Havin trouble with my brain today Mathisasons era was 1.39. HIs whip was .88(very imperssive).

     
  • Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski

    They have to make a run at Halladay. If it costs Happ and Taylor then go for it. I say trade Happ/Vic for Halladay and Vernon Wells too. The Jays want to rid themselves of that contract and we take it on for now.

    I am sorry but I feel more comfortable with a rotation with Halladay in it over Happ in it. I love Happ but he will never be on the same par as a #1 starter.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ryk

    What do you all think about Joel Piniero? He’s coming off a very nice year, so he may be expensive, but you can’t argue with these numbers…..4th in NL in wins (15), 214 IP, 3 CG, 3.49 ERA, and 7th in NL in WHIP (1.14). He’s only 31, so he’s got at least a 3-year deal left in his tank.

     
  • Posts: 0 joedad

    I want no part of Putz. He is coming off two injury plagued seasons in a row. Beltre was a one year wonder who got paid $60 million and regressed back to a Feliz type offensive player and is coming off an injury. He would be more expensive than Feliz and I question both his durability and his incentive. I’d rather bring Pete back than Beltre.

    They could certainly use an upgrade at starter. Halladay is the dream acquisition, but I will not hold my breath. He would probably want to sign an extension before agreeing to a trade similar to Santana with the Mets. I don’t see the Phils committing to him unless talks with Lee go south and they think he will test the free agent market. Lackey isn’t out of the realm of possibility. There won’t be too many teams offering free agent contracts due to the economy so 3 years might get it done.

     
  • Posts: 0 joedad

    Mathiason’s been hurt a few times so they can’t count on him. Anything he can give is gravy at this point.

    Uggla has no shot of being on this team unless he has pics of Amaro menage a troi-ing with Arod the Centaur and Kate Ho-dson.

     
  • Posts: 0 bfo_33

    The rotation is also too lefty. Bring in Halladay (if he’ll sign an extension), then you split Lee and Hamels or Happ. Pitching them back to back in any order probably means the 2nd guy is going to get lit up – they are just too alike. Blanton is serviceable as #4, not as #2, then Kendrick or a scrap heap find at 5 (don’t need a 5th pitcher until May anyway, so you have some time to look). I wonder if Toronto would take Hamels and Vic over Happ and Taylor/Brown?

     
  • Posts: 0 Robbi p

    I may be on crack but I’m not the only person that has mentioned it
    http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2009/11/phillies-notes.html

     
  • Posts: 0 psujoe

    I thought Mathiason only had the Tommy John Surgery? They tried to make him a starter. I think(emphasize think) he’ll be fine in the Pen.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    The last thing the Phillies need is someone with no plate discipline who K’s twice a game and was a horrible 3B in college/minors. I’d take Feliz back over Uggla anyday.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Mathieson will be very solid in the pen. You heard it here first, future closer.

     
 
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