Comments on: Phillies Targeting Beltre?

By: Jeff of Nova

Jeff of Nova — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:42:03 +0000

we need to really start investing some time into finding a young guy in the draft or free agency that we can work into a premier 3rd baseman, signing 30+ guys to play the hot corner is getting old.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 19:19:37 +0000

yea its just a tough one…i mean i do think they should try to get a righty starter…but after lackey its just a real crapshoot. duscherer (sp?) from oakland has good stuff but he is young enough to probably be stepping into a decent contract for years and money. dont know if the phils want to committ to that. and the guy missed last year because he was battling depression?? and alot of injury-prone guys there…pavano may not be the BEST choice, but i cant really think of many better options in FA

By: George

George — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 14:34:26 +0000

Not saying Bedard, Sheets, or Harden are great options. I’m saying Pavano is just as bad or worse. His ERA last season was 5.10, and he gave up the most hits of any pitcher in the majors.

Pavano is also being courted by at least two other teams, the Twins and Brewers, and will not be cheap because of that. He’ll probably get more than double what he did last year. Maybe he’d be worth that, but it’s too big of a maybe. With his track record (one really good year, but overall about a .500 pitcher) he’s far more “high risk” than he’ll ever be “high reward.”

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:45:40 +0000

correction…bedard could ‘NOT’ even hack it on the orioles…

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 08:44:24 +0000

bedard could even hack it on the orioles. if you ask a cubs fan if they were impressed with harden, you woul hear a unanimous NO. and if sheets even played last year i dont remember. damn i dont remember either of these guys havin a year to mention in a while…

heres the deal== i feel like pavano has just as good stuff and as much potential of winning over say the next 2 years. i feel like teams REALLY lookin for SP might gamble on the 2nd tier of pitchers like bedard, harden, sheets…im just sayin if pavano should be top on the radar for the phils if they are lookin for SP. he will be a low risk/high reward type pitcher in terms of salary. he had a good rebound year from injury. he has experience pitching in both leagues. i like him as another R handed guy in our rotation.

but beltre is comin in at 3rd.

By: George

George — Sat, 28 Nov 2009 01:54:45 +0000

Pavano? He’s been injury prone himself, doesn’t have the stuff of Bedard, Harden, or Sheets, and has seemed at times to be a head case.

Let’s worry for now about 3rd base and how limited and overpriced the available talent is. I’m thinking more and more that there will be a large hole at third no matter who is signed. I just don’t see any of the free agents being all that much better than Feliz. I hope I’m wrong.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 23:31:50 +0000

i kinda like pavano as the 5th starter. i like him over the injury prone harden, bedard, sheets that everyone seems to be talking about. i think pavano still has 2 solid years left and he had areal cheap contract last year in the AL. performance based incentives, i think he would be a good fit, right hander, with experience…esp with the news of moyer, who knows how effective he will be even at the beginning. i realize he is paid for already, so they will want to use him somehow, but if he is injured he wont be any use in the rotation or bullpen. sounds like the brewers are targeting pavano, but we will see. considering his yankees debacle of a couple years ago, he had a decent comeback year last year in the AL central….

By: Geoff

Geoff — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:46:13 +0000

I think its just fine to sign DeRosa or Polanco really. They need to add depth to the rotation, there is no second right handed starter. Drabek should not be rushed AT ALL, hes very young sitll. I wouldnt mind leaving him down there until September really. No hurry at all. Then they need a closer to be their plan B. They just need to convince one of the better ones on the market that he should come here and be the option if Lidge isnt ready.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 18:43:20 +0000

jeff i agree, figgins is probably an all around better player right NOW. but in 2 years at age 34 you think he’ll still have an above average obp? doubtful. let other teams waste their time on him becausehe will get about 10mil per year as the leader of the 3b FA pack. he would add a great scoring dimension for the phils, but in the long run i strongly believe the phils would get a better return on their money with beltre for 3 rather than figgins for 4-5.

jesus u got it right

By: Jesus

Jesus — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 16:28:44 +0000

I’m amazed at how much value people associate with Figgins. You are talking about a little above average player who had 2 maybe 3 good seasons and not in a row. He is going to get 4yrs at 10mill from someone, to those who don’t believe that please see Gary Matthews Jr., and I don’t see him worth that. He strikes out over 100 times a season, was thrown out 30% on his steal attempts, has a career high of 62 RBI’s in the AL, and has a career SLG of .388. I agree that JRoll isn’t the prototypical lead off hitter but he gets the job done. He scores tons of runs, drives in runs when runners are on base and steals bases at a high rate of success. So I think that overpaying for Chone just doesn’t make a lot of sense. Over the last 4yrs he has a total value of 51 million, take into account his season last yr was worth 27.4 million. Beltre over the last 4yrs has been worth 58.8 million. I would rather have Beltre for 2-3yrs at 7-8 million than Figgins for 4yrs at 10mill. We could take the extra 2-3 million to get an arm for the pen.

By: joedad

joedad — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 23:36:55 +0000

Supply = Demand dictates that Beltre isn’t worth more than a one or two year contract or a 3 year contract at a low price. There are quite a few free agent 3rd basemen who are at or just below Beltre’s level of production who will take a one or two year deal.

By: Jeff Dowder

Jeff Dowder — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 22:30:53 +0000

How is moving Rollins to the 7th slot “giving up on him”??? Leadoff hitters are supposed to set the table for the big bats. They’re supposed to get on base. They’re supposed to work the count. They’re supposed to be able to situational hit. Which of those attributes does Rollins show any sort of proficiency in? None. He swings for the fences in every AB, no matter what the score, no matter what the situation. He always has and he always will. Moving him to the 7th slot is not “giving up on him” – it’s simply putting him where’s he belonged for years now.

Figgins isn’t getting 5 years or $50 million from anybody. You know that as well as I do. He will get more than Beltre because he’s a more valuable player. A team that in recent history blew $24 million on Adam Eaton and $13 million on Geoff Jenkins shouldn’t be concerned with paying a couple of million a year more over Beltre to get the better player.

And you lost that bet jrollpatrol08.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:27:22 +0000

oh and because jimmy had one bad year everyone is ready to give up on him??? hell lets give up on cole hamels and brad lidge too since they played like sh*t last year. jimmy has the tools and the diligence to come out next year swingin the bat real well.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 19:24:20 +0000

ok sure spend 10mil a year for 5 years of figgins. thats the kind of deal hes lookin at. and then by year 2 of the contract, when hes 34 years old, and hes speed is deteriorating, he will be an average player. you will have another mediocre player in a huge contract. im not investing that much time/money into a guy with speed as his only attribute. jeff i bet u didnt even know who figgins was 2 years ago

By: Jeff Dowder

Jeff Dowder — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 18:12:25 +0000

The old “his numbers will blow you away next season when he is here and he is surrounded by great players” mantra has already been used in the past with David Bell and Pedro Feliz. Beltre is exactly the type of player that the Phillies should be avoiding.

This lineup needs a new dimension other than standing around waiting for the three run HR. It needs a leadoff hitter that actually gets on base (what a novel concept). Signing Figgins strengthens the lineup at both leadoff and the 7th slot.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:15:45 +0000

amen jesus…good reply…i couldnt agree more

happy thanksgiving everyone!

beltre will be here as a christmas present. i guarantee it. 3yrs, 4th year option 24 million plus incentive bonuses. he numbers will blow you away next season when he is here and he is surrounded by great players.

By: jrollpatrol08

jrollpatrol08 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 17:07:15 +0000

polanco and derosa are not effective full time starters and each could realistically be signed to 1 year deals. you would have to sign BOTH of them in some sort of platoon operation at 3rd base and have bench bats. i dont see polanco in the picture whatsoever, but i do think derosa is still a possibility if beltre’s price is too high.

joedad–beltre happend to play injured during his contract year last season 2009. he is 30 years old and has the greatest offensive production capabilities of any 3base FA. if the phils offered him a 1 year deal…boras would laugh. the dude is gettin multiyears somewhere thas for sure. the only question is how much and how long.

brooks–i would not be okay with keeping feliz. ruben isnt an idiot. he sees this as the 1 position that we have the opportunity to upgrade and take the team in a better direction. i ll take figgins, beltre, polanco easily before i take feliz. nothin against pedro personally, its just there are better options out there and this is part of the business

By: Jesus

Jesus — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:21:11 +0000

I think some of the people are undervaluing Beltre. He is a better defender much younger and has power to left field which would play very well at CBP. Remember he played his home games at Safeco Field which has always been tough on RH pull hitters. He still managed to average over 20 hr’s and his away SLG is over 100 pts higher away from Safeco. If you go by fangraph’s value his down 09 season was still worth 10.7 million. Meanwhile Pedro, who I loved, has only had one season that high in 07 which was worth 11.7 million. I think signing Beltre would be a huge upgrade and would keep our INF defense strong while adding a RH power bat that would give us 5 guys with 30 HR power. If we can get him for a 3yr 21-24 million I think it’s a no brainer.

By: Georgie

Georgie — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:03:02 +0000

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone! I’m with Dips, just sign PP and be done with it. Save the rest of the $$$ for pitching.

By: Brooks

Brooks — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:36:33 +0000

Happy Thanksgiving Phillies Nation!

Beltre and Scott Boras – coming off a 5 year $64 mil contract? Comon, get real! Although he probably would settle for less than that amount thinking or wishing he will come in under 8 mil a year is a pipe dream. He is not worth that!
If we could keep Feliz, I think all of us would be OK with that decision.