Quantcast


Somebody Has to Say It

Posted by Nick "Beerman" Staskin, Fri, November 06, 2009 11:59 AM | Comments: 99
Opinion, Posts, Raising Questions

The immediate days after the World Series were surely more fun last year.

At the same time, losing hurt a lot more in 1993. So I guess it’s true: winning is the easiest cure for losing. Had the Phillies not beat the Rays last season, I’d probably be beside myself after a loss like Wednesday night.

Now I know that I might take some heat for this column. People might not like what I have to say, but sometimes you have to make a point rather than try to win a popularity contest.

In a world where Facebook statuses and Twitter updates are up-to-the-second with what is going on, everybody is entitled to their opinion. Yet, that doesn’t mean everybody’s opinion is correct. It also doesn’t mean mine is correct either, so take it with a grain of salt.

Midway through Wednesday night’s disappointment, I pulled out my phone and read how people were bitching on FB and Twitter and the general consensus was “must be nice to buy a championship” or “at least we bring up our own players.”

I’d like to think it’s that easy, but let’s be real. The better team won. If it was that easy to “buy a championship” how come the Yankees hadn’t won since 2000? Hell, how come they hadn’t been to a World Series since 2003? Sure New York went out and spent $423 million dollars last off-season, but how much of that money really beat our beloved Phillies this past week?

C.C. Sabathia 0-1 3.29 ERA 13.2 IP 11 H 6 BB 12K

A.J. Burnett: 1-1 7.00 ERA 9 IP 8 H 6 BB 11 K

Mark Teixeira: .136 AVG 3/22 1 HR 3 RBI

The Phillies lost to the likes of Derek Jeter and his 11 hits, along with Johnny Damon with his base running and killer at-bats. Hideki Matsui and his all-world performance in only three starts. Mariano Rivera and his….well he’s just that damn good.

To go along with that, the Phillies lost because Ryan Howard went 4-23. Jimmy Rollins and Shane Victorino hit a combined .200. Solo homeruns don’t win games. Cole Hamels just couldn’t get it going this postseason and the World Series was no different.

When you draw 26 walks and only score 27 runs, something didn’t go right. The Phillies leading hitter this World Series was Carlos Ruiz batting out of the eight and nine hole. This leads me to my biggest culprit this series: Charlie Manuel.

If you are a Manuel lover, now is the time to move to a different posting on this website. Sure, Charlie doesn’t play on the team so his role in the loss can’t be measured in batting average, runs scored or earned run average. When certain people are hitting and others aren’t, it’s not that hard to juggle a lineup and change things up a bit. The Yankees left-handed pitchers completely owned Ryan Howard this series. Why not Howard move to fifth and let Werth hit clean up against the lefties? Why not move Chooch up in the order? Why not split up the struggling combination of Rollins and Victorino to get some men on base for Utley? Manuel’s poor management of this series can sure lead you to second guess a lot of things that happened over the course of the six games.

Game One – Despite having a 6-0 lead, Manuel sent Cliff Lee back out for the ninth inning. In any short series, it isn’t hard to know that your best pitcher is most valuable when you can use him in as many games as possible. Had Lee come out of the game with a comfortable lead, the possibility of pitching him on three days of rest to set up another date with Sabathia in Game Four could have been a more realistic possibility. Instead, Lee went back out, finished the game, labored a bit in the ninth and threw 122 pitches in the opening game.

Game Two – This game featured the the infamous decision not to start the runners before what turned out to be an inning-ending double play by Chase Utley. Manuel then lambasted Tim McCarver for suggesting that he might have made the wrong decision. I’m not a big McCarver fan, but this time he’s right. When playing from behind against the greatest closer ever, you can’t play scared – you have to play aggressive. If you start the runners and Utley hits a line-drive it’s a double play. However, if you don’t start them and Utley hits a hard groundball (like he did) it’s the same double play. The call might have been blown, but the inning before New York was on the short end of the stick – so that evened out. Had Charlie started the runners, the Phillies would have had men on 2nd and 3rd for Ryan Howard with two outs in a two-run game. We’ll never know…

Game Three – A lot went wrong for the Phillies on Saturday night. However a few big spots stick out. Up 2-0 and with Andy Pettitte on the ropes, would it have been that hard for Manuel to send a “take” sign to Sam Perlozzo before Victorino’s at-bat in the second inning? Rollins had just drawn a quick walk and Victorino was swinging out of his shoes on the next two pitches. Victorino managed to save face with a sacrifice fly, but imagine if he was a bit more patient at the plate and gets the hit that changes the game. This one isn’t all Charlie; I’m just pointing it out.

My biggest gripe with Manuel in this game was using Eric Bruntlett as his sixth-inning pinch hitter with a man on and two outs. Down 6-4, Manuel decided to save Ben Francisco for an opportunity that never came and went with Bruntlett – who had 18 more hits than I did this season – against Pettitte. A fly ball ended the inning and any chance at a rally to tie the game.

Game Four – Not starting Cliff Lee, who had said he would have started on three days rest might have been the beginning of the end for the Phillies. Joe Blanton pitched good enough to keep the team in the game, but if you are going to trade for the difference-making ace in midseason, don’t you have to use him every chance you get? Look at C.C. and his workload the past two years. Pedro Feliz bailed out this poor decision (another decision that Manuel took offense to in post game press conferences, may I remind you) with a home run to tie the game in the bottom of the eighth. However, it was the ninth inning that made this a 3-1 Yankees series lead.

Some people questioned bringing in Brad Lidge to start the ninth. I had no issues with it. I thought he had earned the right with his performance last year as well as his performance throughout the playoffs this year. But when Johnny Damon got on base, everybody in the Delaware Valley knew he was taking second base. Lidge couldn’t keep base runners on all year and this situation was no different. How could a pitchout have not been an option? Let’s rewind first though. Before the two-bag steal, Manuel called for an infield shift that we all know left 3rd base unattended. I can count on my hands the amount of times that the Phils used this shift this year, so not sure why he thought it was a good idea in this spot against Tex. Why do it with two-outs and a man on first? A single doesn’t beat you there. No pitchout, shift in place, we all know what happens next…man on third, Lidge’s slider seemingly a liability should it get in the dirt, a fat fastball to A-Rod, and a Posada double all add up to a 7-4 loss that will not soon be forgotten.

Game Five – The questionable calls by Manuel on Monday night wound up being all-for-nothing as Game 7 never happened, however they sure made you think. Again with a six-run lead, Manuel sent Cliff Lee out to the mound in the seventh when conservation was key. “The Jeweler” as my friends and I like to call Lee (because he deals in gems) got into trouble to start the inning and had to be pulled. Also in the eventful eighth inning, Charlie pulled out Victorino due to his sore hand. Whenever Shane had to come out during the regular season, Werth moved to centerfield. Instead, it was Francisco who went to center and Werth stayed in right. I think we all remember the throw to the plate that Francisco attempted to make. The Phils went on to win the game, but it just kept bringing more and more questions to mind about what was going on in Charlie’s head during the series.

Game Six was the one game the Phillies were never really in. I’m not pinning this one on Charlie or pointing out any of his judgmental shortcomings for Wednesday night. One team showed up to play, the other didn’t.

Like I said, it is easy to point fingers at anybody over a tough loss; and while Hamels and Lidge struggled on the mound and Howard along with almost the entire offense struggled at the plate, Charlie Manuel labored from his spot on the steps. Last year, I thought Joe Maddon outmanaged Manuel, but the Phillies were the better team so it wasn’t as big a factor. This year, the Phillies couldn’t afford to have that same luxury.

I’m not asking for Charlie’s head. Far from it. Managers make mistakes throughout the course of the season, and when you win three division titles and two pennants in a row those mistakes are quickly forgotten. However, over the span of a six-game series to end the season, mistakes made will stick out like sore thumbs and will be remembered all winter long.

Yet too many people were giving the skipper a free pass and I know I’ll take some heat from this on the comments page. You can agree or disagree to those point, but I think we can all agree on a couple things:

  • The Phillies are still the class of the National League. One day after the season ended, the Phillies have to be the favorites to get back to the World Series. They are more complete top-to-bottom than any of their competitors in the Senior Circuit.
  • Decisions have to be made. Pedro Feliz, Pedro Martinez, Chan Ho Park and Brett Myers are the four biggest question marks when talking about who comes back and who walks away. Who would you bring back?
  • While Hamels and Lidge had rough seasons, getting Hamels back to form is the biggest priority in the off-season. If Lidge doesn’t have it, there are other closing options – not only on the current roster, but others that will be available during the course of next season. However, there aren’t many pitchers who have showed the capabilities that Hamels has juts hanging around. If Cole can get back to 2008 form, the 1-2 punch of Lee and Hamels can be a knockout. But if Cole can’t find that form that put the ’08 Phillies over the top, it leaves a lot of people wondering what to do with the former World Series MVP.

Here’s to a helluva season….95 days until pitchers and catchers report.

Avatar of Kieran-Carobine

About Nick "Beerman" Staskin

Nick Staskin has written 36 articles on Phillies Nation.

 
 
  • Posts: 0 Sam

    Damon was bought from the Sox in ’04 how does he not count? Jeter, Rivera, and Pettite were the only home-grown players that contributed, and Petitte looked beatable the whole time we just couldn’t capitalize.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Id resign Myers and Park for the pen. Covnert bastardo to fulltime relief. Bring in a veteran lefty in Spring Trainig for depth reasons. Sign Rafael Soriano – who can close and be very nasty when he is on. Thats my top free agent relief target for the Phils. Must sign.

    Then they shoudl try to trade for another starter because I agree that signing one of these Free Agent Starters is not really a good idea at all given the cost. It wont be Halladay, the mere thought of Halladay and Lee on the same taem for like 5 second even is too much to handle.

    What trade options (right-handed) are out there?

    They need to start thinking like an AL team though, they mostly already do. BUT they need to maintain speed on the basepaths and at the top of the order. because that will be any team in any league if those two guys get on base.

     
  • Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski

    Yeah, it is tough to say what exactly went wrong. The team that played better won and hats off to the Yankees for making the right pitches and getting the right hits at the right time. I think everyone can look on this series is that the Yankees, while they won aren’t significantly better than us. And we will be right there again (barring injuries) next season. Yes, we need some changes but overall it is easy to be a Monday Morning Manager here. I of course will make some points:

    1. Phils dominated Yanks in Game 1 and got too complacent after that. They looked like they do sometimes in that they thought they were going to win and didn’t focus as hard as the Yanks did in key situations from that point on.

    2. Game 2: send the runners, don’t send the runners? Too late now. Only game though where a Yankees starter dominated us. AJ was unreal that game.

    3. Cole has to stay focused after walking Big Tex. Vic swinging for the seats and Yankees begin hitting what the Phils gave them. Damon doesn’t try to hit HRs and Yanks were focused. We also have to rock Pettitte more.

    4. Blanton was the right choice and pitched really well. The changing part was getting Rollins and Vic on in the 5th but no one even advances them. That to me is when the game was lost. Winning teams move the runners and get at least one home. I don’t agree with the shift or bringing in Lidge with the game tied. No reason to shift with Damon on base and how poorly Lidge pitches in non-save situations over his career (not just this season). Bring in Durbin and no shift and we have a chance. Love the Feliz HR off of Joba.

    5. Best game of series offensively. Utley’s 5th HR was spectacular! And we didn’t let them celebrate at home.

    6. Game 6- Yanks HAD to win that game. Pedro was shot early on and they jumped on him.

    Rollins and Vic tried to hit HRs alot of the times. Rollins focused when they absoutely needed him to. Vic also was trying to hit HRs early on.

    Utley and Howard had to hit better with runners on base. Maybe the time off was too much for Howard but you could see that slump setting in- in Game 1. Yeah, he hit 2 2Bs but the last time CC struck him out was it. Then Burnett killed him with outside curves the next night.

    Utley- was awesome though! Great show (outside of when runners were on base).

    Werth- solid series but K-ing too much in key situations.

    Feliz- looked tired at the plate but was the real reason we were in Game 4.

    Pitching- only way we would have won was if Cole from last year showed up. Pedro may have pitched Game 2 but not Game 6. Cole needs to rest and then clear his head. We also need relievers who can get a 1-2-3 inning more consistently.

    Yanks merely played better. The losses can be pointed on everyone. As someone mentioned, if we win the Blanton game and Lee wins- he looks like a genius. His big mistake was putting that shift on and pitching Lidge. Other than that, he didn’t change his style too much.

    You don’t start shaking up lineups in the WS or putting guys in situations in which they aren’t used to. We needed better focus at the plate next year. This team looked tired down the stretch but they were there and will be again!

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    The only thing that awes me about the Yankees – at all – is still Rivera. That guy is just incredible. Without a doubt the greatest closer of all time. Liek its not even debateable really. The Phillies still almost got to him in game 2 when they loaded the bases. And again in teh 8th inning of Game 6.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Does anyone else WANT the Yankees to be there again next year? It like, MUST happen. The ultimate World Series rematch. It would be the highest rated World Series in ages I feel.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Is anyone NOT surprised that Tim Lincecum got cited for having weed on him?

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Atlanta is looking to trade Derek Lowe, Javier Vazquez, or Kenshin Kawakami…..interesting. They would have to eat mad money to move Lowe. Do you think they would deal with us at all?

     
  • Posts: 0 Sam

    I doubt we’d be able to get soriano considering he plays for Atlanta, but who knows.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I doubt they would deal with us but I would take Lowe. I heard the Cubs are looking to move Zambrano and I bet Harang or Arroyo could be had from the Reds. As for other options that are out there, there really are not many, no one wants to see to part with pitching, and rightfully so.

     
  • Posts: 0 Phriggin Phan

    Didn’t the Mets just not sign Putz? Wouldn’t he be good for our pen? Give us some wiggle room if Lidge continues to suck llama ass…

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Soriano is a free agent so at this point he plays for no one.

    I was looking at the 2011 Free Agent class, trying to find guys that teams might be willing to trade since they are technically pending F.A’s and the only good starters I saw were:

    Halladay
    Harang
    Arroyo
    Francis
    Cain
    Beckett
    Blanton

    I very much doubt Francis, Cain or Beckett will become free agents. They will most definitely sign long term deals this year. But the rest on the list are possibilities.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    The Met’s did or are going to buy out Putz, he would be a good buy low option. He would take an incentive heavy type deal. He seemed to be better as a closer though, meaning he is a great plan B if he can be a good set up guy. Would be nice to have two possible set up guys in Madson and someone else since Madson is not ready to close yet, if ever.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    Figgins ain’t coming here… not a chance.

    We ain’t getting Lackey… he’s going to cost a boat load and his peripherals aren’t that good (let the Mets overpay for him)… 1.306 WHIP with a very good defense behind him.

    Pedro Feliz is a phenomenal defensive 3B and you’re absolutely nuts if you don’t see that. Defensively, he’s gotta be among the top 5 in zone rating among 3B (fangraphs isn’t working for me today… if someone wants to check that out).

    HOWEVER… I’m intrigued by what Pat says…

    We should start thinking like an AL team because we don’t have enough pop when the DH comes into play. It’s a huge disadvantage for us during the regular season (not carrying that extra pitcher) so we have to accomodate somehow. We need to somehow add power for when the DH comes into play. If we can add someone with some pop at 3B, I’m all for it… if and only if we can add a guy like Mark Derosa to complement. That is, we need a guy that can spot start for Utley and Ibanez on a regular basis AS WELL AS be a defensive replacement at 3B. Mark Derosa would be a great fit…

    Not sure how cheap Ducscherer is going to be but we’ve had some success trading with Billy Beane.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Soriano is a free agent

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Duschherer will be cheap. He didn’t throw a pitch last year because he was diagnosed with clinical depression.

    Do you really think DeRosa will sign with someone to be a backup?

     
  • Posts: 0 George

    It’s way too easy to second guess a manager. I’ll point out that according to fans, Martinez was removed too soon vs. the Dodgers, but not soon enough vs. the Yanks in game two. He’s thrown almost exactly the same number of pitches. The shift? It wasn’t Manuel’s fault that Lidge or Ruiz forgot to cover.
    Anything looks bad when it somehow doesn’t work. Utley may have hit into a double play, but what if he’d hit a double? It wouldn’t have mattered then where the runners were.

    As far as next year, I have no problem with Feliz. He’s cheap, and better than anyone else for the price. 5.5 mil is less than some second rate relievers make. It’s less than Adam Eaton made. As far as Myers goes, he’ll be testing free agency, because there’s no way you offer arbitration to someone who never earned his 12 million. His pay can only be cut beyond a small percentage if he resigns as a free agent. If no one else wants him on the cheap, then maybe the Phils get him.

    The biggest issues this team faces are not third base or a number two starter. They need more bullpen arms and a major shakeup of the bench. Lee is signed for one year, and should be coaxed into more. That leaves Hamels, Blanton, Happ, and a fifth starter whose arm isn’t totally falling off. We have Kendrick, Moyer, and some minor league arms to chose from. While Hamels’ performance might be an issue, I don’t think it will be in 2010, but Happ may suffer some from sophomore jinx. He may fall a little from his current high position. Still, that leaves a pretty good starting staff, and there’s no reason to sign a pricey Ben Sheets or a Harden with money that could be used to extend Lee.

    Money should be coughed up for backups and bullpen help, and not wasted on a third base or starting pitching “upgrade,” unless those two areas show weakness in the early part of the year.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    I totally agree we need to have a Scutaro or DeRosa type (type is keyword) superutility type of guy for later in the season to protect chase utley by letting him sit a few games this coming season.

    They definitely need an AL-type lineup. they already have one, but they need that 7th slot to be more powerful. theres no way feliz drives in 82 runs again, it just aint happening. he is great defensively, but anyone who cant see that he has lost a step in all phases of his game hasnt been watching either. now, him losing a step defensively is still better than what a lot of teams have to begin with, but you gotta beware of that and look to upgrade IF an opportunity presents itself, which i would tend to go for.

    Arroyo is garbage.
    Harang – maybe that would work.
    Hallday – not happening.
    beckett, francis and cain are too precious to their teams.

    you never know though, boston does wierd stuff sometimes though….

    i am on teh same page as you in TOTALLY expecting the mets to overpay for john lackey. and maybe even try to overpay and fail allowing texas to overpay.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    theyre going to have to cur money somewhere, and I feel Feliz will fall victim to that somehow. i think they have other obligations they are free of too (eaton, thome finally).

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Here is a really good payroll analysis that was done by Pete over at Recliner GM. right after the Phillies traded for Lee.

    http://www.reclinergm.com/phillies-organizational-depth-chart-and-payroll-analysis-post-lee-trade/

     
  • Posts: 0 The Beerman

    I’ve said for weeks I would trade Werth and Happ for a top line starter. I like Werth a lot, but he really can’t hit righties. I’m not a giant Happ guy, but he had a really good season.

    You have to think of players as stocks, because thats what they are. They are property of the team they play for. Buy low, sell high. Neither Werth nor Happ’s value will ever be higher than it is right now.

    Also on the Halladay front. After seeing the pieces you had weren’t enough to win it this year, I think you would be foolish not to make a phone call to see if the offer still stands. If they don’t plan on moving Werth while his value is this high, then Taylor and Brown sit for another year not helping the team. Just a thought.

    Going into this column I wrote that we are all entitled to our opinions, so I don’t mind if you don’t agree with my Charlie bashing. However, to say that he managed a fine series is being blind by your love of the team…

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Dude, what do you not understand about the fact that Werth is our ONLY major lague right handed power hitter? ONLY. feliz is not in that class. hes a bottom of the order slop hitter whos been slowing down and declining. I want another starter too, but you cant just assume Taylor is ready right now.

    MAYBE they would do it if they got a top notch, CHEAP guy….maybe The Great Greinke? But if KC traded him their GM would be fired on the spot.

     
  • Posts: 0 Evan

    I like Charlie, I just don’t like him as a manager, at least not this year. He looked good last year when he didn’t really have to do much. He didn’t fall victim to exactly what Giradi did, which was overmanage his team. This year there were moves that needed to be made and he didn’t make them. He didn’t make them all season long.

    Two easy decisions that needed to be made.
    Rollins is not the leadoff guy.
    Lidge isn’t the closer.

    By July these things should have been done. I have the benefit of hindsight in saying so, but Charlie is the one getting the salary. The world series was just a disaster in terms of managing starters and the pen, especially game 6.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Where do we think Myers will land?

    I say Tampa Will get him on the cheap and he will reunite with Burrell.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    Some more payroll analysis this time courtesy of David Murphy:

    http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    why go for ben sheets, he’s a righty with a power curve ….unless you can get him cheaper than Myers. We need another sinkerballer/ marquis type of guy…I’m sick of the the long balls…we have one off the best infields and how many DP opportunies did we get this WS…two, maybe three. Fly ball outs and K’s are great but no chance for a force play if there’s a man on first and less than 2 outs.
    What the bullpen did in the NL play-offs was phenomilnal but it caught up to us in a big way…..it was a MASH unit that got exposed. And while the “bought a championship” argument can be contested the difference between both clubs is this: they could have restocked their middle relief core or bench in a heartbeat, where we may not have without making some sacrifices elsewhere. That’s what Yankee fans don’t get among other things…A cheaper alternative to buying a contact hitter is to tell Vic and Rollins to hit for contact and not let them go up there and take power cuts whenever.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    In case you haven’t heard, according to mlbtraderumors.com, Amaro told Brett Myers that they will not be pursuing him.

     
  • Posts: 0 Ed R.

    I think Brett will go to Milwaukee or Baltimore.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Taylor also was injured…Sportmansman Hernia at the end of the season….that could delay his arrival in the Bigs

     
  • Posts: 0 BS

    Guys, we are not getting another top line starter. I’ll guarantee you that. With the bullpen and bench holes that we have, and more than a $100 million already committed to contracts or pending arbitrations, money needs to be spent elsewhere, and unless the Phils are going to bump their payroll to $150 mil, they won’t be able to afford a Lackey.

    Besides, I’m confident Cole will rebound next year. Beckett went through this, Justin Verlander went through this. 25 year old aces don’t magically turn into pumpkins. I’ll call it right now, Cole’s going to be a stud next year.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Well you cant bet on that man. Im not saying get a real expensive stud starter. Just get a good starting pitcher, thats all.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    I’d say the Brewers…then we need another righty besides Blanton unless they feel Kendrick is ready. Alot of people disliked Myers but I’ll say this…the way he looked in the post game interview was the way I felt about it that loss…despite Hamels failings and the bull pen on crutches, we played down to the Yankees. I couldn’t help but see that in the guy’s face. I mean Howard has been phenominal but 13 K’s…he didn’t look like someone who struck out 13 times. I’m not one usually to assume what player’s are feeling but the swagger we came in with just was there as much. I don’t think we had all the pieces to win game seven, but 7 – 3 against Andy Petite the second time thru…i can’t tip my hat that much to the guy cause other than making some pitches in key spots, our right handed bats did nothing.

     
  • Posts: 0 The Original Chuck P

    I think that Derosa would come here to be a bench player if we could give him some sort of assurance that he would see regular playing time, which I think we could. He flourished in that role with the Cubs… this is his chance to play for the best team in the NL. Ibanez, Utley and Feliz could all use more time off… Derosa is not much of a drop off in talent and he’s a great clubhouse guy. Further, he can step in and play every day if Feliz doesn’t do what he did this year (DISCLAIMER: I think he will…).

    I’m ok with Cole… but I’m not sure what they’re going to do with him. I keep referring to a comment that Charlie made about not wanting high maintenance players. I just feel like he might be willing to move on…

     
  • Posts: 0 Dan S

    damon and matsui were bought too…
    and rodriguez and swisher and they bought pettite back
    swisher didn’t do much but matsui damon rodriguez and pettite killed the phils and cc didn’t pitch poorly

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    I’ll save some space and just add that:

    What Tim said @ 12:14pm + What the Original Chuck said @ 11:37pm = pretty much what I think about this post.

     
  • Posts: 0 Matt Kwasiborski

    I would try to package Victorino and Happ to see if the Blue Jays bite on it for Halladay. They may have to throw in Taylor but look at it this way:
    The Jays also want to move Wells and his monster contract. If they do this, they will need a CF. Happ had a great year but I don’t think he is more than a 4 or 5 starter on this team. For the Jays he could be a #3 or so.

    Halladay is going into his walk year. We picked up Lee’s option and get Halladay cheaper than we would have gotten him in July. You then move Werth to CF and go after a RF or a much needed utility guy.

     
  • Posts: 0 Manny

    Why would you trade VICTORINO AND HAPP (who’s under team control for years) AND THEN ALSO TAYLOR… for a one-year rental? I don’t care if his name is Halladay or Jesus Christ.

     
  • Posts: 0 Geoff

    Yeah taht would be a really stupid trade.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    DeRosa is just what the Dr. ordered esp. if he can play enough positions so he can get the playing time that he would want. Our bench just didn’t get enough playing time. Had it not been for the offense having to take up the slack for the pitching woes early in the season i think the bench would had more playing time and less rust. Also none of the bench player can hit for contact…

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    I’d be happy with juan pierre that pest…that’s the problem we don’t have anyone that can consistently be a pest.

     
  • Posts: 0 j reed

    Ed R. – Is me or is Dubee over rated. I didn’t have a problem with pedro out there because of his last performances but he was clearly struggling. I can’t believe he showed no signs of this in his bull pen session. The guy can’t read pitchers one bit and never advises Manuel well about his pitchers which we know and accept that Manuel sucks at …i wish we could get duncan or the guy from the twins. I think we’d see a profound difference.

     
  • Posts: 0 Bret

    Dubee is overrated? wow youre an idiot. We just went to back to back world series. I hate all these fair weather fans who werent following this team in the late 90′s and early 00′s……you dont know what its like to have a really bad team. You are all nit-picking. And when Juan Pierre hits a HR let me know.

     
  • Posts: 0 karen

    I don’t know why but this loss is so much tougher than other times. My fave pro teams and college teams never really get to the top, they are good but not quite good enough. You definately have to admit that the Yankees have a team that no other team in the league could match, they have players that have salaries close to an entire team. It really shows that baseball needs some salary cap to try to even out the teams……beyond that, I am just sad that we lost. Unfortunately, after the game 1 win, i was confident that we would win a second championship

     
  • Posts: 0 karen

    I think that we need Drabek and Taylor to be in Philly in the 2010 season….we are riding them as the future of the team so they need to go up and make it or not

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike Schmidt

    How can you talk about the 2009 World Series without bringing up the one play that changed the entire series more than anything else?
    Alex Rodriguez and Fox’s camera.
    Before anybody says to forget about this play and move on I will not.
    First of all, saying the Yankees are a better team and that the Yankees would have won the series no matter what means nothing.
    The play was disrespectful to the Phillies and their ballpark.
    How the players played changed a little after the play, but what was alot more noticeable was how the fans and writers started talking about this series.
    This was one of the closest world series in a long time.
    Just look at the Yankees WS since 1996
    1996:Yankees won 4-2 against ATL but got outscored by 8 runs.
    1998:Yankees won 4-0 against SD and outscored SD by 13 runs.
    1999:Yankees won 4-0 against ATL and outscored ATL by 12 runs.
    2000:Yankees won 4-1 against NYM but only outscored NYM by 3 runs.
    2001:Yankees lost 4-3 against ARI and got outscored by 23 runs!!
    2003:Yankees lost 4-2 against FLA but outscored FLA by 4 runs.
    2009:Yankees won 4-2 against PHI and outscored them by 5 runs.

    As you can see this was the closest world series the Yankees were in during the Derek Jeter years. Yes the 2001 WS went to 7 but ARI crushed them when they won and outscored them by 23 runs overall!!
    So this was the closest world series in baseball since 2002 when the Angels and Giants went 7 games.

    However after the A-Rod phony call, the talk changed from how the Phillies are champs and this is the two best teams in baseball, to the Yankees are clearly better and the Phillies are clearly inferior.
    I do not belive this whatsoever. I do not believe the 2009 Yankees are better than the 2009 Phillies. They are two evenly matched teams where a few breaks went one way or the other and a winner was decided. One team was clearly not head and shoulders above the other.

    The question is why did the talk change after the A-Rod call? Answer-Because people wanted to avoid controversy and the fact that something about the play just wasn’t right and wanted to take the fact that the call went the Yankees way to explain why they were better than the Phillies. That is what fans, players and writers always do after a controversal call.

    Face it, the call was controversal and detrimental to the Phillies ballclub. Had A-Rod just hit a home run that went way over the fence it would have been better for the Phillies. However to be up 3-0 in Game 3 as defending World Champs and thinking the play is a double and then see the umps go in for 15 seconds to change the call, it was like MLB and the umps just took the Phillies championship reign away from them, and that was not right. The play made me sick to the point that I did not sleep and was up all the way until the start of Game 4 because I could not believe the call.

    Then after that play it was all about the Yankees franchise and how they are bigger and stronger and much better than the Phillies franchise, all talk that was non-existent before the play. Why? Because people wanted to avoid controversy and side with the call made by the umps, and the call favored the Yankees, so they would then explain why the Yankeers were just “better” than the Phillies.

    The facts of the World Series are this:Phillies had 5 more home runs than the Yankees, got outscored by only 5 runs, and held the Yankees to a .247 batting average. That is 5 points better than the worst batting average ever by a world series champ the 1969 mets hit .242. Now think about this for a second, Jeter got a hit in his last at bat, and the Yankees got 6 late hits in Game 5 to close the gap from 8-2 to 8-6. Without those 7 hits, they would have hit .214 and still won the Series. Imagine that a .214 batting average and WS champ.

    And again the game came down to inches. Damon barely foul tipped a 3-2 count from Lidge in Game 4 that would have sent the game into the bottom of the 9th 4-4. It also would have been the first chance since the A-Rod call where the Phillies could have been back in the series because they would have been tied with just them batting in the 9th.

    The series was a game of inches and close calls, one of the closest in a long time. But nobody talks about that now, all they talk about is the powerhouses of the Yankees on how their franchise is richer and history than the Phillies. All because of the A-Rod call.

    And the last part about the World Series is this. The Yankees needed the greatest player at his position in the history of baseball to close out all 4 games. Mariano Rivera saved all 4 games for the Yankees. They could not done it without him. Yet the writers and fans, talkers and players made this about how much more powerful the Yankees were than the Phillies.

    One guy Mariano, who just happens to be the greatest ever at his position, a couple of close calls and a game of inches. That is the reality. The Yankees also had luck on their side. They hit the camera and got the call. That part is luck, not skill.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike Schmidt

    The Yankees also got a few cheap runs, on silly bloop hits and balls landing in weird places. To my account the Phillies didn’t get any cheap runs, except for when Howard didn’t touch home plate on his hustle steal second and score play in Game 4. The Phillies also hit the ball hard during the series. Even in the last game, Jimmy just missed going deep that would have made it 7-5, and Victorino showed the heart of this ballclub by going 10 pitches for the final out. The 2009 Philadelphia Phillies were a great ballclub, and they may have been a little better than the 2009 New York Yankees, I personally think they were better than the 2008 Philadelphia Phillies.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike Schmidt

    Remember, the Phillies outslugged the Yankees in slugging percentage .464 to .399. I personally think these Phillies are better than these Yankees.

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike Schmidt

    Lets have Ryan Howard hit the camera home run, have it ruled a double, and then give the call to the Phillies. Lets see how the Yankees play the rest of that game, and the rest of that series. Lets see how their fans react. Maybe then can we say for a fact that the Yankees are better than the Phillies. Until that happens, I cannot believe that anyone can say the Yankees are a better team than the Phillies. You have to LOSE the call and win the game to be the best, not WIN the call and win the game to be the best. This World Series to me proved nothing. If the Yankees were so much better than the Phillies why didn’t A-Rod just stand at 2nd base and accept it, and why didn’t Joe Girardi just sit in the dugout? I mean, the Yankees are better than the Phillies aren’t they? Either way the Yankees are going to win because they are better, right?
    I do not believe so. A-Rod needed to point at the camera and looked puzzled and Girardi needed to come out of the dugout to protest because they knew if they were going to beat the 2009 Phillies, they needed that call. Otherwise they wouldn’t have argued the call and asked for replay, would they?

     
  • Posts: 0 Mike Schmidt

    If the 2009 Yankees are so much better than the 2009 Phillies then A-Rod would have stayed at 2nd base, and Girardi would have stayed in the dugout. Why? Because they are better, and no matter what the call is the Yankees will win anyway.

    The 2009 Yankees are not better than the 2009 Phillies, and the reactions of A-Rod and Girardi after the controversal call proves that.

     
  • Posts: 0 Andrew J.

    Ahh, such denial. The camera was over the railing; the ball hit the lens. It was a no-brainer. Ground rules for the stadium before the game said the camera was a movable object, and as such, not part of the permanent structure of the stadium, hence hitting it is not like hitting a wall or a railing.
    You lost in 6; you couldn’t touch the greatest closer of all time pitching two-inning saves with a pulled rib cage muscle, sitting in the dugout with a heating pad against his ribs.
    AJ

     
 
Leave a Comment

>> Create a new Phillies Nation account.
>> Already registered with Phillies Nation? Log in here.
>> Comment without logging in:






Please ensure your comments comply with our Comment Policy.